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Posted: 3/28/2003 7:05:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2003 12:22:12 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Talked to a Propper rep at the Shot Show and finally got my account set up. I need to meet my minimum initial purchase so that's were you guys come in. Propper manufactures extremely high quality stuff. Specs here: [url]http://www.propper.com/about.html[/url] PROPPER INTERNATIONAL Headquartered in St. Louis, Missouri our company is one of the largest manufacturers of uniforms to the U.S Department of Defense. Since 1967 we have manufactured over 50 million garments. [b]All our uniforms are produced to exact U.S. Department of Defense specifications, or to the specifications of other domestic or foreign government agencies.[/b] ISO 9001 CERTIFIED [b]Propper International is also the only apparel manufacturing company in the U.S. to have received an ISO 9001 quality certificate from the British Standards Institute, and an ANSI/ASQC Q91-1994.[/b] These certifications apply to our entire quality assurance system, from the inspection of raw materials, through process inspections, to our critical review of the quality of finished garments sent to our customers. We're also proud to be a Certified AAFES Uniform Supplier. OPERATIONS Propper International employs over 2,000 employees with facilities in the US, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. Our 1,000,000 cubic foot Distribution Center, in Waverly, Tennessee is our key to on-time delivery. Much more than a simple warehouse, this facility is fully EDI capable, and equipped with PKMS software that allows us to ship orders ranging from single garments to full cases and truck-loads. We can even provide custom packaging and trim products, such as hang tags, pocket flashers, UPC coding, and pre-priced tickets to all to your specifications. Additionally, we warehouse and ship to multiple locations for the US Department of Defense under the DOD Bill and Hold Program. At the Tennessee Distribution Center we handle the Ricks Program for the DSCP, as well as Vendor Managed Inventory for Ships Afloat and AFES. Now you can get knock off (Chinese, Pakistani, etc.) BDUs for $15.00 per piece, and if knock offs are your bag have at it. And you can usually find mil spec (but not Propper) BDUs for $25.00 per piece if you hunt around. General retail for genuine Mil Spec (US Cavalry, Army/Navy) is about $35.00 per piece. Here's what I'm offering: PROPPER BDU's $20.00 per piece + s/h. This is about 1/2 price. I'd think $10 should cover s/h/ins up to 5 pieces. BDU Pants ($20.00 each) [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RQAAACwUPrkzJb3YKFLk5jhlyYeK6tLFCTt*lJGurtDT­0V5m3FeUYdu2E8I*DLVriM*8gkPQ2Ya4tiXbbtSKGiwNO­bveIHSf*saTGlTvF50/prmi001.jpg[/img] Product Specifications Sewn to Military Specification MIL-T-44047E 6 Pockets, 4 with Button Flaps 4 Button Fly Double-Reinforced Seat and Knee 4"Adjustable Waist Tabs with Quadruple Bar Tacks BDU Jackets ($20.00 each) [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RQAAADQUJ7vUoG*ayIs*FMDbKpZyAAncFkTbS4!RODGJ­VgaxasNNI0fLdPO92tx*8PHn6jmnPH1iF2nUnLfOD7bC3­gqz4qYtdSFcSTXFspc/prmi018.jpg[/img] Product Specifications Sewn to Military Specifications MIL-C-44048G 4 Pockets, 2 Breast Pockets with Button Flaps and Drain Holes, 2 Lower Pockets with Covered Button Flaps Fused Pocket Flaps and Collar 100% COTTON (XSR SS SR SL MS MR ML LS LR LL XLR XLL) 2X (add $5.00) 3X (add $8.00) 4X (add $10.00) Woodland Desert (3 Color) Tiger Stripe Black Olive Navy Khaki 60/40 Cotton-Poly (XSR SS SR SL MS MR ML LS LR LL XLR XLL) 2X (add $5.00) 3X (add $8.00) 4X (add $10.00) Woodland Desert (6 Color) Tiger Stripe Black Urban Olive Navy Khaki I need to sell about 50 pieces (25 sets) total. If you are interested just email me with exactly what you want (100% Cotton or Cotton/Poly, exact sizes and how many) and I will get back to you with a quote and payment info. It will probably take a month before we have enough and I submit the order. Editted to add email: [url]Steyr808@yahoo.com[/url]
Link Posted: 3/28/2003 7:35:35 PM EDT
Also if you want a custom "ARFKOM ARMY" name tape, add $5.00 per tape. [:D]
Link Posted: 3/28/2003 7:39:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2003 7:44:06 PM EDT
Can I get them in MARPAT...just kidding...I'll take a set...email coming...
Link Posted: 3/28/2003 7:46:07 PM EDT
Any available in hunter camo like Advantage?
Link Posted: 3/28/2003 7:50:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DefMan: Any available in hunter camo like Advantage?
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Sorry no, closest thing would be Woodland or Tiger.
Link Posted: 3/28/2003 8:00:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2003 8:05:12 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]
So what's everyone's preferences on the material? 100% cotton? 60/40 Cotton-Poly? How about M65 jackets? Any word on delivery time, especially given the current crisis? (I can afford to wait for a good price like this - Botach is $30, and we know their deliveries can suck)
Link Posted: 3/28/2003 8:11:58 PM EDT
Hmmmm... Was just in surplus store today. $39 per! Wonder what size I would need.[>:/]
Link Posted: 3/28/2003 8:19:03 PM EDT
BDU Sizing information [url=http://forms.cap.gov/logistics/sizing.htm]here[/url].
Link Posted: 3/28/2003 8:21:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2003 8:25:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights: So what's everyone's preferences on the material? 100% cotton? 60/40 Cotton-Poly? How about M65 jackets? Any word on delivery time, especially given the current crisis? (I can afford to wait for a good price like this - Botach is $30, and we know their deliveries can suck)
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I'm gonna try and limit this to BDUs only (see your email reply) to keep it simple. 100% Cotton is more comfortable and breaths better on warm temps. Cotton/Poly blend doesn't fade as easy and is easier to maintain. I'm going to "assume" approx. 2 week delivery upon placement of the order, BUT I will verify before submitted. When I spoke to them the other day they indicated most items available and in stock.
Link Posted: 3/28/2003 8:36:58 PM EDT
Steyr: I haven't seen 100% cotton BDUs in YEARS. All of the current issue stuff is a Nylon-Cotton Blend - which has (IMHO) eliminated any benefit to the heavier poly-cotton in terms of wear resistance while still being decently comfy on the hot and sticky days (comfort being a relative term, of course). My point is - you might want to ask the propper guy if he can get you those.
Link Posted: 3/28/2003 9:02:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Adam_White: Steyr: I haven't seen 100% cotton BDUs in YEARS. All of the current issue stuff is a Nylon-Cotton Blend - which has (IMHO) eliminated any benefit to the heavier poly-cotton in terms of wear resistance while still being decently comfy on the hot and sticky days (comfort being a relative term, of course). My point is - you might want to ask the propper guy if he can get you those.
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Yep, I absolutely confirmed that 100% cotton is available. The local S. Fla SWAT guys won't wear anything else.
Link Posted: 3/28/2003 9:37:45 PM EDT
SA my friend, I'm not to up on these things, but I'd be interested in the "RIP STOP" cotton type. I like them because they dry out ~FAST~ and are light weight. Any of this fabric available in solids, Black, Navy, or od/green? Any solids colors available in the 100% cottons you are offering? THANKS!
Link Posted: 3/28/2003 9:42:10 PM EDT
bolt: The 100% cotton are the original "rip stop summer weight" BDU fabric. The Poly-cotton are the "temperate weight" - not worth a shit, IMHO - the only benefit they had was they lasted longer than the old cotton ones - but now the nylon-cotton rip stops last every bit as long.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 1:57:36 AM EDT
You want 100% cotton IMHO
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 3:37:18 AM EDT
all cotton would be my choice. and id be interested in pants and shirts and could probably get orders from several other people i know. but we need the solid GREY. can you do anything with that? and i'd also need to know a reasonable delivery date.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 3:53:06 AM EDT
Steyr, do you have a link to the color selection, or are you just doing selected colors?
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 4:19:36 AM EDT
i will probably be in on this.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 6:11:11 AM EDT
I'm in for a few sets of trousers
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 6:37:56 AM EDT
I have a pair of "Propper" pants that are like BDU's in many ways, but that differ in others. For example, the pant fly isn't the one I'm familiar with. Why does "Propper" do this? IM(of course)HO, they ought to just make 'em all the same! (Why doesn't someone take care of all these problems? lol) That's a really good price, by the way, SteyrAUG. If I were in the market, then I'd stock up with several pairs. IMHO
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 7:26:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2003 7:27:54 AM EDT by M700-308]
I don't want to seem like a dick but I just got the same ones from Cheaper Than Dirt for the same price Edited to add, they were Propper and Button Fly not Zipper
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 7:28:08 AM EDT
Wee, I can now finally get a new pair, I wore out my BDU's going to all the Gunshows. [;)] I might be in for a set.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 7:46:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M700-308: I don't want to seem like a dick but I just got the same ones from Cheaper Than Dirt for the same price Edited to add, they were Propper and Button Fly not Zipper
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Just checked their site and all their BDUs are Atlantco, not Propper. If they had them in the past, they don't seem to now. Also, I am doing this at the best price "I" can offer. I'm not KMart, WalMart or Super BDUMart, in other words this won't be a 10,000 piece order with "way below dealer cost" pricing. It is simply the best deal "I" can put together on a relatively small order of about 50 pieces. If you can do better at www.superBDU Mart we both know you will. But just once I wish I could make an offer without someone coming along and going "I can get it for a nickle cheaper at..."
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 7:48:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74: Steyr, do you have a link to the color selection, or are you just doing selected colors?
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The colors listed above is all that is available for 100% cotton, and the selections listed for 60/40 are most of what is available. I left out the ones they couldn't guarantee reasonable delivery times on.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 7:49:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By racebaiter: all cotton would be my choice. and id be interested in pants and shirts and could probably get orders from several other people i know. but we need the solid GREY. can you do anything with that? and i'd also need to know a reasonable delivery date.
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Solid Grey is not a option and I cannot give a specific delivery time.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 7:50:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By IMHO: I have a pair of "Propper" pants that are like BDU's in many ways, but that differ in others. For example, the pant fly isn't the one I'm familiar with. Why does "Propper" do this? IM(of course)HO, they ought to just make 'em all the same! (Why doesn't someone take care of all these problems? lol) That's a really good price, by the way, SteyrAUG. If I were in the market, then I'd stock up with several pairs. IMHO
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Actually sounds like you got a pair of PROPPER Cargo pants, not BDU's. All PROPPER BDU's are tru spec.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 7:53:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M700-308: I don't want to seem like a dick but I just got the same ones from Cheaper Than Dirt for the same price Edited to add, they were Propper and Button Fly not Zipper
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OK, so SteyrAUG's price is cheaper than dirt too. Not bad at all for a one-man show, to be immediately competitive with a mass retailer. Plus, being a small business owner myself, I'd rather support the little guy. I've bought lots of stuff from CTD, but in this case, I'd rather support a longtime ARFCOM supporter.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 7:58:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2003 8:00:55 AM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 7:59:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M700-308: I don't want to seem like a dick
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Too late.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 8:17:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter: Propper is a government manufacturer, as they say, however none of thier commercial sale merchandise is made in the same plant as the military contract stuff. It is made overseas. Thier commercial sales BDU's do not meet US Government specs in many details, but are still a decent product..... but I hate to see thier Dominican Republic stuff represented as US Mil-spec, when it is not. Still, $20 ain't bad at all.
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From the Propper website: All our uniforms are produced to exact U.S. Department of Defense specifications... More specifically the ones I'm selling: Sewn to Military Specification MIL-T-44047E however they do have facilities in the DR as well as Puerto Rico. I'm not aware of any "commercial grade" BDU's. I know they sell Cargo pants, and LE uniforms, etc. Also current Mil Spec is a 50/50 Nylon Cotton so "technically" the 60/40 and 100% Cotton are no longer Mil Spec, but the are genuine in terms of when that was Mil Spec. I can order the current 50/50 Nylon Cotton spec, but have been advised they are currently, heavily back ordered.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 8:22:52 AM EDT
Piccolo Enterprises, in cooperation with BlingRat NM Extreme shooting gear is introducing these in exciting new Parrothead comouflage. It's wearers have been using these to sneak into Jimmy Buffett concerts for years! Act now!!!!! Operators are standing by!!! http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=10&t=178675
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 8:30:09 AM EDT
I haven't got the tag, but I think you're absolutely right, Steyr'. Thanks for the clarification. Sincerely, IMHO
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 8:33:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2003 8:42:24 AM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 8:38:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter: After 15 years in the business, I can tell you it is very easy to clain your stuff is mil-spec when it is not. You simply pick and choose what specs you want it to meet. It may meet the mil-spec for sewing, but not for cloth quality, or may meet the mil-spec for buttons but not for sewing. They may very well meet the mil-spec for SEWING, but it's not the only one. Indeed I just pulled up a recent government propsal for contract bids and this spec was only one of [i]five[/i] mil-specs that the clothing had to be made to. Why do they only list one? There is a reason why they can wholesale these for under $20, but the government contract is for over $30 ( and it is a highly competative market where contracts are won and lost by a few cents of unit price). It is because they cut corners on the stuff that doesn't go to the military. That and dirt cheap DR labor. As one example, pick up a pair and look at the bottom rear corner of the cargo pocketr, under the "bellows". A true mil-spec BDU will have a small water drain hole made into the pocket, wheras most commercial sales stuff does not. A small detail, but its cuts costs. There are many small details that make the difference.
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I definitely know YOU know the biz. However... Product Specifications Sewn to Military Specifications MIL-C-44048G 4 Pockets, 2 Breast Pockets with Button Flaps and [b]Drain Holes,[/b] 2 Lower Pockets with Covered Button Flaps Fused Pocket Flaps and Collar And like I said, the material being 100% Cotton and 60/40 Cotton Poly is not current spec, but these are what is sold as Tru Spec.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 8:43:32 AM EDT
OK, so they're Mil-Spec, but are they "Tactical?" [;D]
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 8:50:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DzlBenz: OK, so they're Mil-Spec, but are they "Tactical?" [;D]
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When I'm watching Blackhawk Down wearing my Desert pattern crouched behing my couch with my AR15 Hbar and yelling "Skinnies on the roof" at the TV I "feel" tactical. [:D]
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 8:55:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 9:23:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DzlBenz: BDU Sizing information [url=http://forms.cap.gov/logistics/sizing.htm]here[/url].
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thanks, I think I'll be in for a couple pairs of pants.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 9:49:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Originally Posted By DzlBenz: OK, so they're Mil-Spec, but are they "Tactical?" [;D]
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When I'm watching Blackhawk Down wearing my Desert pattern crouched behing my couch with my AR15 Hbar and yelling "Skinnies on the roof" at the TV I "feel" tactical. [:D]
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LOL! I can just see it.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 10:42:16 AM EDT
mail sent
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 11:26:26 AM EDT
I would be in for some grey ones.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 11:28:39 AM EDT
message sent. i will take 3 pair of the pants. Ronald
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 11:32:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Taxman: I would be in for some grey ones.
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Sorry Grey unavailable. The only offer Grey in the 65/35 Battle Rip (which is popular with LE and also comes in Sheriff Brown, etc.) but I'm not doing those.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 11:35:26 AM EDT
us cavalry is around $30/pair. count me in for 2 pairs. email will be sent.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 12:45:36 PM EDT
SteyrAug, Quick question before I place my order do you price match, have a no questions refund policy, or offer a 110% price guarantee if I find them cheaper somewhere else? Just kidding...as they say...Wait this NOT Walmart...no good deed goes unpunished.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 12:55:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 1:27:45 PM EDT
... By any chance, can you appropriate, or even recommend for that matter, where I can find a 3 color cover for a large Kevlar PASGT helmet? I just sent you a request for the 3-color desert trouser and jacket order. [img]http://www.1starmy.com/Prod_images/DESERT%20COVER-B.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 3:45:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ColonelKlink: can we get nylon cotton blends in swat black?
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I'm only offering what is in the original post, 100% Cotton or 60/40 Cotton Poly. As previously stated 50/50 Nylon Cotton blend are currently unavailable.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 3:47:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf: ... By any chance, can you appropriate, or even recommend for that matter, where I can find a 3 color cover for a large Kevlar PASGT helmet? I just sent you a request for the 3-color desert trouser and jacket order. [url]http://www.1starmy.com/Prod_images/DESERT%20COVER-B.gif[/url]
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Sorry no. The only places I know that would have them won't be economical.
Link Posted: 3/29/2003 4:03:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2003 11:59:08 PM EDT by BKinzey]
Email sent! DZLBENZ! I'm taking some heavy fire over here behind the La-Z-Boy! RPG! RPG!
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