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Posted: 9/12/2015 8:26:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A shame the author of that blog stepped on his dick in the EE. He was a decent poster here. It's not really a shame, the fact is AT is a pretentious douche. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 8:31:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's wrong with some plain old motor oil? Cheap and not wanting in most climates. No fucking shit. Use Mobile 1 if you want. It's not fucking sex lube people. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 8:32:37 PM EDT
[#3]
Lol
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Posted: 9/12/2015 8:35:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No fucking shit. Use Mobile 1 if you want. It's not fucking sex lube people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What's wrong with some plain old motor oil? Cheap and not wanting in most climates. No fucking shit. Use Mobile 1 if you want. It's not fucking sex lube people. Which is usually little more than glycerin and water. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 8:37:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Nvm
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Posted: 9/12/2015 8:41:19 PM EDT
[#6]
To their credit, Crisco is very popular in the black powder community.
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Posted: 9/12/2015 8:45:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Crisco or not, it seems to work well.
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Posted: 9/12/2015 8:46:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is why I use Mobile 1 |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 8:49:04 PM EDT
[#9]
After taking a look at the FT-IR spectra that's a pretty damned good match. They may not have been lying about it not being crisco, that's a brand name that's thrown around like kleenex. Also, I can do some FT-IR on monday but my thought is that peanut oil is going to look exactly like vegetable oil is going to look like canola oil ect... on an FT-IR. You are going to need a GC-MS to figure out exactly what it is.
ETA: If they were smart they would use soy bean or better yet avocado oil because it has a much higher smoke point than other cooking oils. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:08:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Slip 2000 works well for me.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:18:11 PM EDT
[#11]
I have a LA ICP MS and proprietary MATLAB codes for analysis, but no nebulizer.
How cold does crisco need to be to get to a solid state? |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:19:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I haven't used carb cleaner, used brake parts cleaner though. I'll give the crisco a try though to see if it's the same as fireclean, Bc literally a couple drops is all it takes, and it takes off carbon without effort. For the suppressed guys, I can't recommend it enough. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I literally have 20 different cleaners/Protectants/lube on my bench. And though I don't use fire clean for a lubricant, it works wonders for removing carbon. It's the only thing that can keep my Pistons clean on my suppressor, now I can easily change from one piston to another. Ever tried brake cleaner/carb cleaner? Eating carbon is what it's designed for. I haven't used carb cleaner, used brake parts cleaner though. I'll give the crisco a try though to see if it's the same as fireclean, Bc literally a couple drops is all it takes, and it takes off carbon without effort. For the suppressed guys, I can't recommend it enough. Carbon? Or powder fouling? |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:27:28 PM EDT
[#13]
I've never used fire clean but this is very interesting stuff
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:28:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a LA ICP MS and proprietary MATLAB codes for analysis, but no nebulizer. How cold does crisco need to be to get to a solid state? There's you answer, however I don't think the ICP-MS is going to be any more conclusive than the FT-IR because all oils are going to look about the same from an elemental analysis standpoint. I want to shoot it on a GC-MS to determine what the constituent compounds are. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:38:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Mobil 28 has always worked for me.
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:39:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Break Free CLP, worked for me when i was issued it, works for me now too.
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:40:25 PM EDT
[#17]
I use sent clp and super lube grease.
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:42:02 PM EDT
[#18]
So now we just need to know what Froglube is.
EDIT - It's food manufacturing conveyor belt grease. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:43:06 PM EDT
[#19]
I like ghee as a lube
When I shoot it smells great |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:43:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Surprised no one else has bothered to run it through a gas chromatograph ( or whatever chemists use) Doing that would completely demystify all the marketing bullshit surrounding gun lubes. There's no money in that shit. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:45:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Carbon? Or powder fouling? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I literally have 20 different cleaners/Protectants/lube on my bench. And though I don't use fire clean for a lubricant, it works wonders for removing carbon. It's the only thing that can keep my Pistons clean on my suppressor, now I can easily change from one piston to another. Ever tried brake cleaner/carb cleaner? Eating carbon is what it's designed for. I haven't used carb cleaner, used brake parts cleaner though. I'll give the crisco a try though to see if it's the same as fireclean, Bc literally a couple drops is all it takes, and it takes off carbon without effort. For the suppressed guys, I can't recommend it enough. Carbon? Or powder fouling? The couple of times I used FC on my AR's, it took fouling (inside the upper, towards the rear, upper parts of mags and followers and around the muzzle) off right away; carbon around the bolt took a few minutes to soak. It turned the baked on stuff into hard jelly that wiped off pretty cleanly. Qtip in the barrel extension was good, but I use Tapco stars for that now. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:46:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was banned from the LAV's facebook when I pointed out that FireClean turns to a hard waxy mess below freezing and can jam up the BCG of an AR, as a Cajun chef and frymaster, I also commented that it has the smell and consistency of used fry oil. You've apparently been warned. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:48:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The couple of times I used FC on my AR's, it took fouling (inside the upper, towards the rear, upper parts of mags and followers and around the muzzle) off right away; carbon around the bolt took a few minutes to soak. It turned the baked on stuff into hard jelly that wiped off pretty cleanly. Qtip in the barrel extension was good, but I use Tapco stars for that now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I literally have 20 different cleaners/Protectants/lube on my bench. And though I don't use fire clean for a lubricant, it works wonders for removing carbon. It's the only thing that can keep my Pistons clean on my suppressor, now I can easily change from one piston to another. Ever tried brake cleaner/carb cleaner? Eating carbon is what it's designed for. I haven't used carb cleaner, used brake parts cleaner though. I'll give the crisco a try though to see if it's the same as fireclean, Bc literally a couple drops is all it takes, and it takes off carbon without effort. For the suppressed guys, I can't recommend it enough. Carbon? Or powder fouling? The couple of times I used FC on my AR's, it took fouling (inside the upper, towards the rear, upper parts of mags and followers and around the muzzle) off right away; carbon around the bolt took a few minutes to soak. It turned the baked on stuff into hard jelly that wiped off pretty cleanly. Qtip in the barrel extension was good, but I use Tapco stars for that now. The stuff on the tail end of the bolt or the bolt lugs and face? |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:50:25 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.veganbaking.net/articles/tools/fat-and-oil-melt-point-temperatures There's you answer, however I don't think the ICP-MS is going to be any more conclusive than the FT-IR because all oils are going to look about the same from an elemental analysis standpoint. I want to shoot it on a GC-MS to determine what the constituent compounds are. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have a LA ICP MS and proprietary MATLAB codes for analysis, but no nebulizer. How cold does crisco need to be to get to a solid state? There's you answer, however I don't think the ICP-MS is going to be any more conclusive than the FT-IR because all oils are going to look about the same from an elemental analysis standpoint. I want to shoot it on a GC-MS to determine what the constituent compounds are. That would be awesome! I imagine you will find a few different compounds in relatively small concentrations in a vegetation derivative base. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as there's a bunch of useful lubricants out there with an agriculturally produced base (people used to use whale oil, too) but with different additives for different purposes. It would be bloody marvelous if all the neato gun lubes on the market were subjected to objective testing. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:52:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So now we just need to know what Froglube is. EDIT - It's food manufacturing conveyor belt grease. Lubriplate's NLGI 0 grease product is often recommended for guns...and was originally intended for lubrication in food manufacturing. So it wouldn't surprise me to see that "Frog Lube" is very similar to a Lubriplate product. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:55:32 PM EDT
[#26]
meh, I've used slip 2000 ewl for years. it's amazing stuff. bolt still wet on my AR after 100 rounds. (not rapid fired), but still.
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:58:39 PM EDT
[#27]
Would plaine ole motor oil be considered a CLP or just a lubricant?
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:00:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Eros Bodyglide. Good enough for anal, good enough for my hi point .25 acp fotay with beamz and hollow pointz.
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:12:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would plaine ole motor oil be considered a CLP or just a lubricant? Just a lube, but it does contain some detergents, so it might work okay as a cleaner. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:13:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Andrew is incorrect.
Canola oil is made from rape. The good kind of rape. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:13:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Eros Bodyglide. Good enough for anal, good enough for my hi point .25 acp fotay with beamz and hollow pointz. Yeager approved. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:15:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would plaine ole motor oil be considered a CLP or just a lubricant? Depending on the formulation, I'd imagine it's primarily a lubricant. You'd have to look up the info on a specific brand and formulation to see if they include corrosion inhibitors in the formula. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:16:57 PM EDT
[#33]
The professor had something to say about the formulation and its relevance as a gun oil. “I don’t see any sign of other additives such as antioxidants or corrosion inhibitors. Since the unsaturation in these oils, especially linoleate residues, can lead to their oligomerization with exposure to oxygen and light, use on weapons could lead to formation of solid residues (gum) with time. The more UV and oxygen, the more the oil will degrade.”
 ... of course that was obvious.
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:20:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Andrew is incorrect. Canola oil is made from rape. The good kind of rape. That's a lube opportunity - Rape, Murder, Arson, and Rape. Call it Blazing Saddles, a mixture of 2 parts canola oil, 1 part kerosene, but I'm stuck for 'murder.' |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:21:15 PM EDT
[#35]
I have used FireClean recently for basic cleaning and lube of my carry gun ( Glock 19) and also in my AR. I can't say it worked any better or worse than regular old CLP as far as cleaning goes. I did notice it getting "gummy" after a while in my Glock ( carried daily, shot a bit between cleanings).
In the past I have used motor oil, ATF, generic wheel bearing grease, FP-10, CLP, Hoppes, Shooters Choice, etc... for general cleaning, almost any oil is a suitable solvent. Leading or copper require something more. Lubrication wise, I think fresh FireClean is probably about as good as anything else I've used. After seeing it gum up in my carry gun, I probably wont bother buying another bottle. I have a few large bottles of good old fashioned CLP that will last me a long time... but I get the urge to try "the new hotness" every so often... I guess I'm a sucker. I do want to try the Slip 2000 EWL... it seems to get near universal rave reviews. I think Andrew generally has some pretty good thoughts on things, and tries to give folks a fair shake on his blog. I don't think he has an agenda. If you read his previous blog post, it seems he was defending FireClean. I am aware of his tarnished reputation here, and that whole situation seemed very strange, and at odds with his straight forward style. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:23:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: George Fennell.. There's a name I haven't heard in a while. That article mentions that he's had bad things to say about FP-10, funny cuz he was supposed to have invented it and sure did think it was the best thing since mother's milk on his old FP-10 forum. He was a nice guy back then but certainly not shy with his opinions. He was a good part of the anti-militec movement back in the day, he does seem to enjoy taking the piss out of competitors, but he was right about militec in my experience, and I've got fifteen year old guns with a lot of rounds through 'em that have had a steady diet of FP-10 that look better than they should IMO. I've used FP-10 for quite a while. Works well. But I should come clean and admit that I use it mostly because I like how it smells. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:23:54 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which is usually little more than glycerin and water. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What's wrong with some plain old motor oil? Cheap and not wanting in most climates. No fucking shit. Use Mobile 1 if you want. It's not fucking sex lube people. Which is usually little more than glycerin and water. Interestingly enough, Gun Oil Sex Lube is actually a thing in England. I came across that looking up Snake Oil gun lube. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:26:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honestly, I never heard of Fire Clean until I read this thread... Arfcom doesn't have any grad students with access to a GC Mass spec?
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:30:35 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not really a shame, the fact is AT is a pretentious douche. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A shame the author of that blog stepped on his dick in the EE. He was a decent poster here. It's not really a shame, the fact is AT is a pretentious douche. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I remember when the extent of his gun testing expertise was beating on a Larue FUG with a hammer. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:30:44 PM EDT
[#40]
With most modern firearms the most important thing about lube is actually using it. Doesn't matter much which you use.
Ideally you'd want one that works in the temperature ranges your weapon is most likely to be in and that has neat stuff like corrosion protection and that's easy to clean...but the most important thing it can do is be in the right place when it's needed. Most popular lubes kind of suck at that, IMO. I tend to favor grease in theory but I use various oils because I've gotten a bunch of free samples of stuff over the years and I haven't had to buy any. At the moment I've got a bottle of Slip 2000 EWL that's 2/3rds full, two bottles of Wilson's Ultima Lube, and a bunch of packets of TW25B laying around. And a couple of cans of Break Free CLP. I'm pretty much set. ...though all this lube talk has me wanting to buy a can of Lubriplate.
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:32:39 PM EDT
[#41]
i dunno but i'm curious as fuck. i'm going to go unscrew the FS off my SGL21 and dunk it in vegtable oil I'll post my results tomorrow.
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:33:55 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Neither had I Arfcom doesn't have any grad students with access to a GC Mass spec?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Honestly, I never heard of Fire Clean until I read this thread... Arfcom doesn't have any grad students with access to a GC Mass spec?
FC has been pushed pretty hard in certain circles by various tactical celebrities with all kinds of statements about its awesome powers. The primary one I've heard has been that it doesn't let carbon cake on and wipes off easily...but I'm willing to bet most oil type lubricants will do the same if used sensibly. I've always generously lubricated my guns and I don't get a lot of carbon buildup. On an AR if my bolt and carrier aren't shiny I usually re-lube. It usually wipes down fairly easily with carbon buildup only happening on the tail of the bolt. I would absolutely LOVE to see a whole bunch of lubes put through some sophisticated instruments. I bet a lot of them would look a hell of a lot like various other lubrication products on the market that can be had much less expensively...but perhaps with some additives useful for preventing corrosion or detergents for easier cleanup. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:36:44 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a LA ICP MS and proprietary MATLAB codes for analysis, but no nebulizer. How cold does crisco need to be to get to a solid state? Crisco canola oil!? Google says minus 10 C for canola oil |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:40:23 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FC has been pushed pretty hard in certain circles by various tactical celebrities with all kinds of statements about its awesome powers. The primary one I've heard has been that it doesn't let carbon cake on and wipes off easily...but I'm willing to bet most oil type lubricants will do the same if used sensibly. I've always generously lubricated my guns and I don't get a lot of carbon buildup. On an AR if my bolt and carrier aren't shiny I usually re-lube. It usually wipes down fairly easily with carbon buildup only happening on the tail of the bolt. I would absolutely LOVE to see a whole bunch of lubes put through some sophisticated instruments. I bet a lot of them would look a hell of a lot like various other lubrication products on the market that can be had much less expensively...but perhaps with some additives useful for preventing corrosion or detergents for easier cleanup. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Honestly, I never heard of Fire Clean until I read this thread... Arfcom doesn't have any grad students with access to a GC Mass spec? FC has been pushed pretty hard in certain circles by various tactical celebrities with all kinds of statements about its awesome powers. The primary one I've heard has been that it doesn't let carbon cake on and wipes off easily...but I'm willing to bet most oil type lubricants will do the same if used sensibly. I've always generously lubricated my guns and I don't get a lot of carbon buildup. On an AR if my bolt and carrier aren't shiny I usually re-lube. It usually wipes down fairly easily with carbon buildup only happening on the tail of the bolt. I would absolutely LOVE to see a whole bunch of lubes put through some sophisticated instruments. I bet a lot of them would look a hell of a lot like various other lubrication products on the market that can be had much less expensively...but perhaps with some additives useful for preventing corrosion or detergents for easier cleanup. Kinda like the pool store. They sell bleach for twice or more what you could get at wal mart. But they don't call,it bleach Alkalinity up is baking soda. They even list ingredient as sodium hydrogen carbonate, which is correct, but many people recognize the other Chemical name, sodium bicarbonate, so they don't use that.  |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:50:25 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:but the most important thing it can do is be in the right place when it's needed.
Most popular lubes kind of suck at that, IMO. Some seem good at full-auto torture tests, but don't last more than a few weeks without drying out. It's a shame weapons lubes often don't see proper test routines. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:57:57 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:59:17 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some seem good at full-auto torture tests, but don't last more than a few weeks without drying out. It's a shame weapons lubes often don't see proper test routines. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:but the most important thing it can do is be in the right place when it's needed.
Most popular lubes kind of suck at that, IMO. Some seem good at full-auto torture tests, but don't last more than a few weeks without drying out. It's a shame weapons lubes often don't see proper test routines. That's where I think greases may be a better solution for most. Most people are not firing 1,000 rounds through their weapon in a day. (You can't fire that many rounds through an AR full-auto continuously without cook offs and other unpleasantness) The gun is inactive more than it's active and liquid lubes migrate elsewhere due to gravity. A grease that will stay in place with some corrosion resistant properties and an excellent ability to encapsulate particles so they don't become points of friction would likely serve most people's purposes better. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 11:00:25 PM EDT
[#48]
I use mobil one for gun oil
My MAC10 would kick the ass of all the normal gun oils as it heated up but mobil one kept it running |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 11:04:11 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's where I think greases may be a better solution for most. Most people are not firing 1,000 rounds through their weapon in a day. (You can't fire that many rounds through an AR full-auto continuously without cook offs and other unpleasantness) The gun is inactive more than it's active and liquid lubes migrate elsewhere due to gravity. A grease that will stay in place with some corrosion resistant properties and an excellent ability to encapsulate particles so they don't become points of friction would likely serve most people's purposes better. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted:but the most important thing it can do is be in the right place when it's needed. Most popular lubes kind of suck at that, IMO. Some seem good at full-auto torture tests, but don't last more than a few weeks without drying out. It's a shame weapons lubes often don't see proper test routines. That's where I think greases may be a better solution for most. Most people are not firing 1,000 rounds through their weapon in a day. (You can't fire that many rounds through an AR full-auto continuously without cook offs and other unpleasantness) The gun is inactive more than it's active and liquid lubes migrate elsewhere due to gravity. A grease that will stay in place with some corrosion resistant properties and an excellent ability to encapsulate particles so they don't become points of friction would likely serve most people's purposes better. We used grease and light spray on for exterior. Internals got grease Over and under or semi auto. I used both at different times. But I always shot in hot temps |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 11:05:07 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FC has been pushed pretty hard in certain circles by various tactical celebrities with all kinds of statements about its awesome powers. The primary one I've heard has been that it doesn't let carbon cake on and wipes off easily...but I'm willing to bet most oil type lubricants will do the same if used sensibly. I've always generously lubricated my guns and I don't get a lot of carbon buildup. On an AR if my bolt and carrier aren't shiny I usually re-lube. It usually wipes down fairly easily with carbon buildup only happening on the tail of the bolt. I would absolutely LOVE to see a whole bunch of lubes put through some sophisticated instruments. I bet a lot of them would look a hell of a lot like various other lubrication products on the market that can be had much less expensively...but perhaps with some additives useful for preventing corrosion or detergents for easier cleanup. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Honestly, I never heard of Fire Clean until I read this thread... Arfcom doesn't have any grad students with access to a GC Mass spec?
FC has been pushed pretty hard in certain circles by various tactical celebrities with all kinds of statements about its awesome powers. The primary one I've heard has been that it doesn't let carbon cake on and wipes off easily...but I'm willing to bet most oil type lubricants will do the same if used sensibly. I've always generously lubricated my guns and I don't get a lot of carbon buildup. On an AR if my bolt and carrier aren't shiny I usually re-lube. It usually wipes down fairly easily with carbon buildup only happening on the tail of the bolt. I would absolutely LOVE to see a whole bunch of lubes put through some sophisticated instruments. I bet a lot of them would look a hell of a lot like various other lubrication products on the market that can be had much less expensively...but perhaps with some additives useful for preventing corrosion or detergents for easier cleanup. thats because tjays where carbon forms on an ar-15. the bolt tail, the read of the carrier and right at the muzzle where the FS meets the muzzle. on an AK its the FS area, the gas piston face and inside the gas block. what most people call carbon fouling, isn't carbon. its burnt powder. Carbon forms from high heat and pressure from burned powder. example. on an AK the gas piston face will be coated in carbon. this is a high heat and pressure zone in the gas system. however behind the head of the gas piston on the stem powder fouling builds up. this is a low pressure lower heat area of the gas system. powder fouling is soft and sooty. carbon fouling is very hard in comparison. fyi the FS has been soaking for 15 minutes in canola oil. I can tell you this: its doing jack shit to the carbon inside the FS. |
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