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Posted: 2/28/2003 2:04:37 PM EDT
Sitting here thinking about it and I was struck by something I hadn't ever thought about before. Using California as a model for the desires of Democrats, liberals and anti gunners in general it occurred to me that almost all of their "approved" sporting firearms are 19th century designs. Their boogeyman, the semi automatic high capacity rifle, is a 20th century creation. The Kalashnikov was a 1947 design and the Stoner rifle a product of the 1950s. There were previous examples (such as the Browning of the 1920s) but all semi automatic rifles are the product of the 20th century. Those that Democrats would approve are largely 19th century designs or based upon 19th century designs. These are your limited capacity bolt, lever or pump action firearms. Many of these designs date clear back the the middle of the 19th century and THESE are the firearms that the anti gun crowd think you should be allowed to have IF permitted firearms at all. As we stand on the threshold of the of the 21 century we find all modern designs denied to us. What we consider "modern" firearms are in fact very dated. Modern firearms include the armour piercing pistol caliber subguns and handguns such as the FN P90 and FN 5.7 which no ordinary "citizen" can own under any circumstance. We cannot even own semi automatic ONLY (20th century) versions of modern firearms such as the HK G36, The AN94 or any other late 20th century firearm. So what they are telling us is that they want a gap of 100 years (or more) in terms of technology between what firearms are deemed acceptable for civilian use and those that will be fielded by our governmnet, law enforcement, enemy military forces, enemy terrorist forces and domestic criminals who would illegally obtain modern firearms for use against the citizens of the United States. In light of this, I now understand the logic and drive behind the 86' Ban, the 89' Import Ban and the 94' AW Ban.
Link Posted: 2/28/2003 2:07:44 PM EDT
They want us to have muskets and flintlocks because that's all they had when the 2nd Amendment was written. Rosie said so.
Link Posted: 2/28/2003 2:10:39 PM EDT
I agree Steyr. This is how they will phase out our access to be able to defend ourselves. You're a lot smarter than I previously thought[;)] Sgtar15
Link Posted: 3/1/2003 11:10:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: They want us to have muskets and flintlocks because that's all they had when the 2nd Amendment was written. Rosie said so.
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Ain't the first time I heard that suggested.
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 10:40:23 AM EDT
just wait till some materials genius gets them armor that can stop fmj rifle rounds
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 11:01:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2003 11:03:17 AM EDT by TigerStripe]
Yeah, I thought it was pure idiocy pushing blackpowder hunting seasons which open before bow and "standard" hunting seasons. Giving people an incentive to downgrade their technology. F**KERS! TS [X] I take my M4 when I go hunting with my "son", he carries a 30-06. Love the reactions.
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 11:25:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: They want us to have muskets and flintlocks because that's all they had when the 2nd Amendment was written. Rosie said so.
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Then we shouldn't have been able to hear Rosie. When the First Amendment was written, there was no television. ANother grand paradox, I see.
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 11:49:31 AM EDT
Infantry is pretty innefective without belt-feds and RPGs. Those are probably more important than which rifle is available. As has been pointed out before, the Afghanis in some circumstances actually preferred the Enfield to the AK. But they were innefective until they had an adequate supply of machine guns and RPGs.
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 3:25:32 PM EDT
I wonder if Rosie and her gang realize that a knife or muzzleloader kill you just as dead as an AK? I wonder if Rosie and her gang realize that my muzzleloader is a .50, just as big as the 'evil' BMG? Of course, realize that they have no clue of the huge difference in ballistics. I can imagine the antis in about 30 years..."OMG that evil muzzleloader can knock out cars and airplanes because it's a .50!" One has to wonder why Rosie hasn't succumbed to diabetes or a heart attack yet. It wouldn't be a great loss...
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 3:44:42 PM EDT
I'm so depressed over this thought train that I'm going to Iraq to become a human shield.
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 4:17:00 PM EDT
Kalifornia is anchoring their laws on a fixed year - 1899. On another note, there are several states (HI, MA, MI and NJ) that require an FOID or sales through a dealer for black powder firearms (including flintlocks). They haven't enacted that kind of regulation in Kalifornia - yet. I think they are afraid of the tax revenue impact if they drive away the End of the Trail cowboy shoot.
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 4:53:41 PM EDT
"We cannot even own semi automatic ONLY (20th century) versions of modern firearms such as the HK G36, The AN94 or any other late 20th century firearm." dunno wth you're talking about. go out and buy a crew served machinegun and be happy. me thinks a m2hb would cure what ails you. at least get a 1919. the an-94 akaban by nikanov is un-importable by trade agreement. aren't there some folks currently building up g-36 clones? some guy keeps posting pics of his over on assaultweb. btw, the an-94 has only been on the commercial market since 1998. you need to get up to bulletfest and see all the stuff that people own. we should have more miniguns this year and some howitzers. "In light of this, I now understand the logic and drive behind the 86' Ban, the 89' Import Ban and the 94' AW Ban." i don't. we get the same technology that we've had since day one. you could buy a tommiegun in 1934 and you can buy an m-16 today. ak's are still flowing in. matter of fact, you could not get or build a polish wz-88 "tantal" in 1988. go look at the pics of one member's new piece in the gd forum on the ak side. how many brands of ar's were for sale in 1985 vs today? when fal's and g3's were legal, how many did they sell? very few. look at the raft of g3's from century, orf and others on the market today. and tons of fal's available including dsa's. wanna build a vz-58? today, you can do it. not in 1988 though. as stupid as the laws may be, american ingenuity will find a way away around them. gotta run..i need to sit at the linker and get ready for warmer temperatures.
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 4:55:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2003 5:00:15 PM EDT by 95thFoot]
Originally Posted By RichinCM: Kalifornia is anchoring their laws on a fixed year - 1899. On another note, there are several states (HI, MA, MI and NJ) that require an FOID or sales through a dealer for black powder firearms (including flintlocks). They haven't enacted that kind of regulation in Kalifornia - yet. I think they are afraid of the tax revenue impact if they drive away the End of the Trail cowboy shoot.
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This is not required in MA, not yet, anyway. Anybody can walk into a gun shop and buy a black-powder muzzleloader w/o any sort of ID, and can also do the same via mail-order. the gun shop may ask you to provide your FID card, but there is no legal requirement to do so. If you want to FIRE it, that's a different story. To purchase black powder and ball, to possess, and to shoot it, one has to have a current FID card. When in doubt, check: [url]www.goal.org[/url] specifically: [url]http://www.goal.org/MGL/bpowder.htm[/url] The law cited, Chapter 140, Section 121:, is at: [url]http://www.state.ma.us/legis/laws/mgl/140-121.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 5:27:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB: "We cannot even own semi automatic ONLY (20th century) versions of modern firearms such as the HK G36, The AN94 or any other late 20th century firearm." dunno wth you're talking about. go out and buy a crew served machinegun and be happy. me thinks a m2hb would cure what ails you. at least get a 1919.
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Both are out of the price range of the regular gunowner, but I'm sure they will get around to them.
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:the an-94 akaban by nikanov is un-importable by trade agreement. aren't there some folks currently building up g-36 clones? some guy keeps posting pics of his over on assaultweb. btw, the an-94 has only been on the commercial market since 1998.
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Yes, I know the AN94 is unimportable by law, kinda my point. And just because someone did a SW hack job on their SL8 doesn't make it a semi G36.
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:you need to get up to bulletfest and see all the stuff that people own. we should have more miniguns this year and some howitzers.
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Again, special tax items, many can't own them even if they could afford them.
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:"In light of this, I now understand the logic and drive behind the 86' Ban, the 89' Import Ban and the 94' AW Ban." i don't. we get the same technology that we've had since day one. you could buy a tommiegun in 1934 and you can buy an m-16 today.
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Um no you can't you can buy a pre86 AR15 title II conversion. You cannot buy a current M16 new from Colt. But prove me wrong, go find me a Colt M4 that is a exact semi auto copy of the military version. No preban M4orgeries and no LE Restricted only.
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:ak's are still flowing in. matter of fact, you could not get or build a polish wz-88 "tantal" in 1988. go look at the pics of one member's new piece in the gd forum on the ak side.
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I'll take a NEW semi Krinkov please.
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:how many brands of ar's were for sale in 1985 vs today?
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I prefer the days when there were only 3 manufacturers and you could buy non neutered versions.
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:when fal's and g3's were legal, how many did they sell? very few. look at the raft of g3's from century, orf and others on the market today. and tons of fal's available including dsa's.
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CAI guns are complete junk. Only the DSA FAL is a dependable rifle from that list and it still can't have a flash hider. I understand something is better than nothing. My point was I don't think they are done yet.
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:wanna build a vz-58? today, you can do it. not in 1988 though. as stupid as the laws may be, american ingenuity will find a way away around them. gotta run..i need to sit at the linker and get ready for warmer temperatures.
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Just because we exploited 922(r) doesn't mean we always will. I haven't seen anyone figure out a post 86 legal MG or a post 94 semi auto AW. And 922(r) was just something they didn't plan on, they will address it in 2004. The big question is whether or not they will pull it off.
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 5:35:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB: "We cannot even own semi automatic ONLY (20th century) versions of modern firearms such as the HK G36, The AN94 or any other late 20th century firearm." dunno wth you're talking about. go out and buy a crew served machinegun and be happy. me thinks a m2hb would cure what ails you. at least get a 1919. the an-94 akaban by nikanov is un-importable by trade agreement. aren't there some folks currently building up g-36 clones? some guy keeps posting pics of his over on assaultweb. btw, the an-94 has only been on the commercial market since 1998. you need to get up to bulletfest and see all the stuff that people own. we should have more miniguns this year and some howitzers. "In light of this, I now understand the logic and drive behind the 86' Ban, the 89' Import Ban and the 94' AW Ban." i don't. we get the same technology that we've had since day one. you could buy a tommiegun in 1934 and you can buy an m-16 today. ak's are still flowing in. matter of fact, you could not get or build a polish wz-88 "tantal" in 1988. go look at the pics of one member's new piece in the gd forum on the ak side. how many brands of ar's were for sale in 1985 vs today? when fal's and g3's were legal, how many did they sell? very few. look at the raft of g3's from century, orf and others on the market today. and tons of fal's available including dsa's. wanna build a vz-58? today, you can do it. not in 1988 though. as stupid as the laws may be, american ingenuity will find a way away around them. gotta run..i need to sit at the linker and get ready for warmer temperatures.
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True.....but what about us "poor" slobs who although we would like to have a M-16, or a MP5SD, but are unable to fork over $10k-$15k for a weapon that should only cost $750-$850 at the very most. Hell Campy, nothing like paying Rolls Royce prices for Fords and Chevys.
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 5:55:37 PM EDT
Just for clarification, CAMPY is right about one thing. All is not lost and the game isn't over yet. I'm just pointing out which direction we are headed and what the ultimate intents are.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 5:56:23 PM EDT
Bumped since the AW Ban is in the news again.
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