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Posted: 2/15/2003 2:32:39 PM EDT
I am not terribly experienced when it comes to M1s, but I have wanted one for some time. My wife has been the primary obstacle. I finally got her to cave today, so I am looking for advice. I just want a decent shooter. I don't care about looks that much, but I don't want a junk pile, either. I understand that DCM M1s can vary wildly. What is the difference between the various DCM grades, manufacturers and categories? I am not a serious militaria collector, so many of the differences that may matter greatly to a hard-core M1 collector don't mean much to me. I just want the most BANG for my buck, and I want an authentic USGI M1 Garand. Thanks in advance for your responses.
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 2:42:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 2:56:10 PM EDT
Yeah, what Wave said. My Springfield Garand is so damn fun to shoot, I don't know why everybody doesn't have at least one.
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 3:03:45 PM EDT
It doesn't necessarily have to be springfield, as any m-1 manufacturer will do. My H&R beats the pants off of the other three rifles (two SAs) we've gotten from CMP....Your mileage may vary. however, get the service grade (the one with the TE rating of less than 5.) not the rack grade.
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 3:18:54 PM EDT
You might want to consider a 1903 first as their supply is running out. I think the M1's will be around for awhile yet. Something to think about.
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 3:54:19 PM EDT
I just got one (my first!) from one of the members here and of course the weather has been absolute shit and I've been way too busy to go shoot it yet. I'm jonesin' hard to go shoot it... Also got my first Enfield in the same deal. No 4 Mk 1 that is first rate looking. Can't wait to go shoot that one either!
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 6:25:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2003 6:25:58 PM EDT by natez]
The Danish Service Grade Springfield M1s run for $400. I don't mind if my rifle was exported and re-imported. Are they a good choice?
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 6:32:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By natez: The Danish Service Grade Springfield M1s run for $400. I don't mind if my rifle was exported and re-imported. Are they a good choice?
View Quote
The Danish are great but you said USGI. The Danes may have replacement barrels, but that is a good thing. Danish barrels are very good.
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 6:35:38 PM EDT
The Danes are a good value, but you might get some non-US parts (primarily beretta or Danish manufacture). Just make sure CMP is your source. SRM
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 6:44:07 PM EDT
Just to be clear, I thought the Danish M1s were originally USGI, then exported, and then returned to Anniston. And yes, I am getting it through CMP. While I am at it, what is a good place for military packed (on enbloc clips and maybe even bandoliers) 30-06?
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 7:17:34 PM EDT
You have it right, the M1's are US manufacture being returned. However, during the years they were in Danish control, they needed parts for repair. Beretta made a version of the M1, so they supplied some parts. I am also shopping for some ammo as well (as always....) SRM
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 7:25:00 PM EDT
I don't think you'll have a real easy time finding m-2 ball any more... IIRC, it is pretty well used up. can anyone confirm?
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 9:38:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2003 9:44:16 PM EDT by FishKepr]
I went with a R001 SG SA too, but given your parameters I'd go for the Service Grade Danish, preferably with a VAR barrel. It also improves your chances for a WW2 rifle, if that means anything to you. Mechanically it should be in good shape. As for looks, well,... you could get lucky, but with a Danish don't count it... The Danish surplus ammo shoots really well too. It's still available at most gun shows and a number of online distributors.
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 9:52:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/16/2003 12:53:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/16/2003 12:48:49 PM EDT
I bought a USGI SA Service grade a few years ago, fun gun to shoot. Going from box to first shot was relatively simple. I did a decent cleaning inside and out and was good to go. A friend just bought a Danish SA service grade from CMP and had me look it over. The Danes packed these things in some serious grease. I had to detail strip the rifle down to component parts and clean the parts in Shooter's Choice to get rid of the grease. I also needed to strip and refinish the stock, because it was well coated with grease and the grease had seeped deep into the worn finish below destroying it. I also needed to repair the front handguard which had an arsenal pinned repair, but the crack had opened up again and I had to fill it will Acraglas. The whole thing came out well. I'd like to run some JB bore paste through the bore to clean it up a little better, but we'll see how it shoots. For the record, the Italian replacement parts often found on the Danish are EXCELLENT quality parts, at least equal to USGI in quality. The Danish VAR barrels are also exceptional. They are at least the equal of USGI service grade barrels and may be near match quality in some cases. The real trick with the Danes is that cleaning them up for use takes some TLC and the beech stocks on many of them (aside from being ugly) are not as dimensionally stable as a walnut or birch stock would be. Beech wears like iron though and the instabilities are well within service grade specs, just not up to match grade. Polyurethane stock finish helps. Springfield Armory made the most M1's so SA rifles are far more common than all other makers. This translates to lower cost from CMP and faster delivery times. IHC's, HR's and Winchesters can take a LONG time to get (over a year). So I would opt for a Springfield variant, a service grade to ensure better barrel condition, and if detail cleaning scares you, the USGI rather than the Dane. The Danes are entirely acceptable and I wouldn't hesitate to order one.
Link Posted: 2/16/2003 1:06:01 PM EDT
go to a dry cleaners and get a 15 gallon drum and cut in 1/2 lengthwise. Add 5 gal gas and it will eat cosmoline. BE CAREFUL! For the wood, the grease, etc will come out with East Off oven cleaned, wash off with H2O and laundry soap. Did this some time ago and it worked like a charm.
Link Posted: 2/16/2003 1:26:00 PM EDT
I am not scared of Cosmoline, though it makes me lazy. I got a batch of M14s at work from Anniston a few months ago (another government program; I don't get to KEEP this one). I picked the only fiberglass-stocked rifle as my issue (its good to be the armorer) so I didn't have to deal with cleaning the stock. I don't mind doing it for my M1, though. I inexpertly refinished the stock on a cosmoline-ruined Soviet M44 last year. I just stripped the Cosmoline (and what was left of the finish, it seemed) with boiling water, steel wooled and sanded it, used wood putty on some of the bigger dings, and used a cheap finish from Home Depot. It wound up looking pretty nice, but I want to do a better job on my M1 when it gets here. Any pointers?
Link Posted: 2/16/2003 1:37:54 PM EDT
The Easy-Off oven cleaner will work, but there have been some reports over at jouster.com of it turning the stock a greenish color. I used TSP (tri-sodium phosphate) mixed in some warm water and scrubbed in with a scotch-brite pad when I refinished my M1 stock. You might have to restain the stock when you're done. For the finish, I used tung oil since it's "appropriate" to the Garand, and I didn't want to mess with boiled linseed oil. I also steamed out many of the smaller dents in the stock, but left the bigger ones untouched. Gives it character. [;)]
Link Posted: 2/16/2003 3:43:43 PM EDT
I used simple green to clean up my international harvester M1, be careful taking the bolt apart. The book that cmp sends gives good instructions. John
Link Posted: 2/17/2003 2:32:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2003 2:40:46 AM EDT by FishKepr]
I cleaned and refinished the stock on mine today. I used "Wood Doctor" furniture cleaner applied with a Scotch "stripping pad" between rinses with warm water. It cleaned very well, but I got a little too aggressive in one spot and excessivly lightened a small area. That error is hardly noticable though. After drying, I put on a few coats of Birchwood-Casey's Tru-Oil, a Linseed based finish. It may not be up to DGR's standards, but overall I think it looks pretty good. Best of all, I only invested about $17 with plently of supplies left over. Gee, I guess that means I better get a few more rifles so I use it up!
Link Posted: 2/17/2003 3:01:12 PM EDT
DO NOT USE EASY OFF. The active ingredient in Easy Off is Sodium Hydroxide, otherwise known as LYE. It is a strong caustic and will eat the lignin that glues the wood fibers together. Once that stuff is gone, it's gone and you can't get it back. Why otherwise rational people choose to use such a product on wood when perfectly effective wood strippers (that are formulated to be reasonably safe for wood) are available at the local hardware store for scarcely more money and which can be used with hardly any more effort is beyond me. Use products designed for wood on your wood stocks, the shortcuts aren't worth it. Real tung oil was only ever used as an arsenal base coat for M1 stocks. Subsequent stock maintenance was accomplished with Boiled Linseed Oil because the military had large stocks of it and it was cheap. As a point of interest: Minwax Tung Oil Finish and Formby's Tung Oil Finish are not Tung Oil, they are blends. Minwax actually has tung oil in it, while Formby's is a wiping varnish intended to look something like a well polished tung oil finish on well prepared wood. Real tung oil will be labelled 100% Pure Tung Oil and will only be found at woodworking stores or paint stores with exceptional stock. Home Depot and Ace Hardware are unlikely to have it. The good news is that Minwax tung oil finish and Formby's are VASTLY superior finishes to pure tung oil or boiled linseed oil. BLO and PTO are traditional finishes (which gives them lots of legs in the highly traditionalist gun world, but they are easily damaged by solvents, provide no protection to the wood from scratches and the like, and are almost completely permeable to moisture vapor. I only use Linseed and tung oil on interior woodworking projects and on tool handles. For gunstocks I choose more durable finishes. The ultimate in durability, solvent resistance and moistureproofing is an epoxy finish. Brownells offers a spray epoxy that I have yet to try. The next step down is Polyurethane. I would opt for an exterior grade polyurethane such as a spar urethane. These contain UV inhibitors that prevent sunlight from damaging the finish as fast. In the case of both Spar Urethane and Epoxy, the stock will feel like it's got a smooth film finish on it and will tend to look glossier which many folks don't like. Tru Oil and Linspeed are polymerized linseed oils. They have been chemically and heat modified to act like varnishes. They are less durable in many respects than synthetic varnishes and natural varnishes derived from natural resins, but they are very popular since they are linseed based.
Link Posted: 2/17/2003 3:11:10 PM EDT
Just get a Danish service grade, remove the metal parts from the stock, and install them on a brand new walnut stock set from Boyd's.
Link Posted: 2/17/2003 3:51:40 PM EDT
Buy the Dane. Get the one with the VAR barrel. Get a can of denatured alcohol to clean off the cosmoline. This summer take it shooting on a hot day and wrap the stock in news paper and place it on your dash. The heat will draw out some of the remaining cosmo. My Dane has a Walnut stock. Berretta trigger group. It was sent over right before Normandy. If your club has a Garand Shoot, you can usally get enblocs and ammo for a little extra. All correct dated parts except for the trigger group. Easy fix.
Link Posted: 3/13/2003 3:06:16 AM EDT
Got the paperwork mailed off to CMP yesterday afternoon. I have heard varying accounts of how long it takes, anywhere from two weeks to a couple of months. Anyone have any idea how long I am goin to be waiting?
Link Posted: 3/13/2003 3:43:07 AM EDT
Just a note about cleaning cosmoline... I've seen advice before and also in this post to use gasoline. [b]DO NOT[/b] use gasoline to clean parts. Gasoline contains benzene and is a very dangerous substance to stick your hands in. Not to mention that it is highly flammable and extremely dangerous to handle, especially in an open container. Anyway, it is unnecessary. Get mineral spirits instead. This is available at any paint department at Wal-Mart, etc. It is sometimes called paint thinner. It is as cheap as gasoline, but doesn't have the dangerous issues of gasoline. And it cuts cosmoline just as well. If you ever see a burn patient, you will never use gasoline as a cleaner again. Trust me.
Link Posted: 4/12/2003 6:27:52 AM EDT
The M1 still hasn't showed up yet, but... The wife gave me permission (after lengthy negotiations) to get an M1917 from DCM as well. The sold out just as she gave me permission to get one, so I got a high-serial numbered Springfield M1903 instead. I sent the paper in last week, and it showed up at the office in less than a week. The markings read "US Springfield Armory Model 1903. Serial# is 998xxx. I wonder when it was made. The stock is a little dinged up, but I think I'll keep it the way it is (adds character). The metal is all in great shape, except for some dings that appear to from mounting and unmounting the bayonet (got to get me one of these) and the rifle has what apparently is a new 1945 manufacture bbl (if I read the markings right). This is a real rifleman's rifle; the ladder sight goes to 2700 yards, has some really precise windage adjustments, and the trigger is great. I spent the afternoon cleaning cosmoline from it, one of the benefits of having an isolated office filled with weapons, cleaning gear and armorer tools. I am still waiting for the M1.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 8:53:44 PM EDT
If anyone still cares, it came in this week. I had to upgrade to a USGI rack grade Springfield. The Danish M1s are running low and all orders that were in the system are backordered now. I got an absolutely beautiful rifle. The serial number is in the high 3 million range, and was apparently made about mid 1945. The stock appears to be pretty new and is a blonde-type color. It doesn't match the handguards; they are a brown color. The exterior Parkerization is in fairly good shape, though there is more wear on the barrel and gas tube. There is some wear on the interior, but everything looks nice. The bore looks great, with no visible pitting or corrosion. The rifle was clean and lightly oiled. No cosmoline or carbon to contend with. There was some adhesive on the receiver near the serial number where someone had placed a piece of cellophane tape on it at some point in time. In a couple minor spots, the adhesive ineracted with the park and there were some black spots that seemed to recede a bit with vigorous scrubbing with a toothbrush. I got out the manual and took it completely apart. Took a bit longer to get it back together, but it wasn't too bad, aside from the trigger group. My wife had a meeting tonight, so I spend a good bit of time locked in with the sling and dry firing. The trigger is very nice. If the rangemaster is around tomorrow, I might go out and put some rounds through it. I am hooked. I can't wait until CMP has some more of those M1917 Enfields available...
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 12:12:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/17/2003 12:16:17 PM EDT by luger355]
All the cmp's toys are shootable What sets one category from another is the overall condition and originality from the time of manufacture. Since that is not an issue for you get what you wish. My CMP STORY I purchased my collector grade back around 98/99 for the princely sum of $700 10 months later they sent me a matching Springfield made in late 1956 with a blank birch stock on it. The Rifle was clearly not worth what i shelled out for it. So i promptly Emailed the cmp and told them politely. "I was hoping for anything but a Springfield" (i already had 2). I sent It back as they instructed. Four months later, the fed-ex truck showed up with a completely matching and correct 11-53 manufactured H&R. Well worth the wait
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