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Posted: 12/24/2002 8:30:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2002 8:31:31 AM EDT by Kroagnon]
I've got a guy on another forum (regardling the Vietcong multiplayer game demo) who insists that he is ordered to underload his 30 round M16 mags by 2 rounds. I thought it was debunked here that the only time this happened was during Vietnam when the 20 round springs had compression issues? But this guy claims to be in the USMC and insists they do it today. Of course he also insists that the North Vietnamese Army and Vietcong underloaded their AK-47s to 28, I've never heard of such a thing with AKs.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 8:34:12 AM EDT
Some guy in some squad in some Marine unit might have a leader who insists on this technique. I know quite a few people who still adhere to it; but it does not make it institutionalized in the USMC and it does not mean that is absolutely necessary. Many people consider those two rounds off the top as cheap 'insurance'.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 8:38:30 AM EDT
2 rnds X 6 mags=outa ammo 12 rounds early Sgtar15
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 8:49:39 AM EDT
If I can't transact business in twenty-eight rounds, I'm a hole in the wind.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 9:01:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Lightfighter: Many people consider those two rounds off the top as cheap 'insurance'.
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When the rifle runs dry, that insurance becomes real expensive. Why not load 29? or 19? or 3?
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 9:03:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Arock: If I can't transact business in twenty-eight rounds, I'm a hole in the wind.
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Want to sell all your unneeded surplus mags cheap?
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 9:10:42 AM EDT
Old habits die hard, went to boot in '82 and was taught to load 28 rounds, also was reinforced in infantry training and forever onward. I still load only 28 rounds.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 9:23:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 9:26:15 AM EDT
Back in April I took a Patrol rifle class at Sig Academy and they said to load 28 in a 30 round magazine.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 9:33:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hellraiser: Old habits die hard, went to boot in '82 and was taught to load 28 rounds, also was reinforced in infantry training and forever onward. I still load only 28 rounds.
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Same here... All of my time in the Marine Corps.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 9:34:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Originally Posted By Arock: If I can't transact business in twenty-eight rounds, I'm a hole in the wind.
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Want to sell all your unneeded surplus mags cheap?
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I'm not a mag whore... Most folks here would say my mag supply is undernourished. Just don't believe in carrying more than will get used, so the supply is barely double digits. Two per rifle is my plan.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 10:49:17 AM EDT
I use 27 per mag. 13, 30 rnders. mags 9, 20 rnders. I use a coke 6 pack reinforced with duct tape, the paper kind for the 16.5 0z bottles, holds 12 mags and one in the gun. GG
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 12:16:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gun Guru: I use 27 per mag. 13, 30 rnders. mags 9, 20 rnders. I use a coke 6 pack reinforced with duct tape, the paper kind for the 16.5 0z bottles, holds 12 mags and one in the gun. GG
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[>:/][>:/][>:/][>:/]
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 12:30:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 1:13:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2002 1:14:09 PM EDT by AR15fan]
USMC 1989-1993 Desert Storm: 1st Tanks Anti-Armor Plt Somalia: BLT 2/9 15t MEU Always loaded 28 rounds in the mag. You can shove 31 rounds in a worn out Marine issue mag, and then that mag wont insert into the rifle with a closed bolt.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 1:58:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan: Always loaded 28 rounds in the mag. You can shove 31 rounds in a worn out Marine issue mag, and then that mag wont insert into the rifle with a closed bolt.
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This is interesting. I always load to 30 but I continue to have intermittent problems bringing the bolt forward on that first round, sometimes the bolt carrier gets stuck and the round stops mid way. Oh and it's hard to put a loaded mag into the rifle. Maybe I'll try to underload by 1 from now on. Of course, because of all of this we are going to have to make sure that the standard capacity mag ban sunsets so we can underload those Beta-C mags at a decent price...
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 2:06:21 PM EDT
Two of my buddies who were in the Marines always load 28 in their mags.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 2:18:18 PM EDT
Was taught (not USMC) 28rds, the reason is that they are easier to seat. I boohoo'd this, until I loaded 30rds and had a hard time seating the magazine...and it get worse when your in awkward positions. Yes, I know you can slap the magazine and get it to go in... But, slapping the mag is poor gun handling skills. (do it under stress, it'll fall out/drop.. I've seen it happen.) As to the "being short two rounds." Carry more magazine and have a place with spare, loose ammo.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 3:26:14 PM EDT
Way back when, the Army had a problem with the design of the mag follower on the 20 round mags and decided that 18 in a 20 was the way to go to avoid 21 rounds in a mag jamming the weapon. 28 in a 30 may have been because in a new 30 round mag the spring will exert too much force on the bottom of the bolt carrier to allow the weapon to chamber a round 100% of the time. I've seen many a weapon fail to chamber the first round of a full 20 and 30 round mag because the bottom of the bolt carrier was dry. Remember to lube it and it should work fine.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 6:19:19 PM EDT
Never, ever, lube a magazine. Your magazine is the weak link in the system. Lubing a mag is a really bad idea, because lube attracts dirt and fouling. That is a really bad piece of advice. Cleaning mags on a regualar basis in another thing.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 6:31:58 PM EDT
I discovered that you can fit 32 rounds into one of those crap-ola blue steel USA mags. And it ties the damned recoil spring into a knot, too! Craziest thing I've ever seen regarding a magazine! CJ
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 6:34:40 PM EDT
I can't understand the concept of underloading a mag except for long term storage perhaps. I always loaded 30rnds per mag - if you have a good mag with a good spring and follower - it will not jam up or malfunction in any way - regardless of whether you have 28 rounds or 30 in it. The "only load 28 rounds" is more or less a Vietnam war lesson from POS equipment then - that doesn't apply if you have quality modern mags. If the mags being issued out are sh#tty - its a logistics problem - someone's supply/armorer needs to get off their a## and order new ones. Even though military TM's state that the magazine is to be cleaned but operators - who has seen this done on a regular basis, if ever? PMCS your sh#t before you go down range - loading only 28 rounds is a weak solution to a problem that can be corrected beforehand.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 6:45:49 PM EDT
When I was a 2LT, my first Platoon Sgt. who was a 'Nam vet told me 28. When I was a Capt my first Team Sgt. who was also a 'Nam vet told me 28. I go with 28 based on their word.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 6:51:21 PM EDT
Re-read his post. He was talking about the bolt carrier, not the mag. I use remington dri-lube in my mags. It is a dry teflon lubricant that sprays on wet, then dries into a film that does not attract dust. Works great in sten mags as well. Bob
Originally Posted By AcidGambit: Never, ever, lube a magazine. Your magazine is the weak link in the system. Lubing a mag is a really bad idea, because lube attracts dirt and fouling. That is a really bad piece of advice. Cleaning mags on a regualar basis in another thing.
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Link Posted: 12/25/2002 12:02:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 12:17:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AcidGambit: Never, ever, lube a magazine. Your magazine is the weak link in the system. Lubing a mag is a really bad idea, because lube attracts dirt and fouling. That is a really bad piece of advice. Cleaning mags on a regualar basis in another thing.
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Actually, he said to properly lubricate the BC..... Scott
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 12:52:27 AM EDT
Damn, I must be loosing my memory.... I cant remember ever hearing the 28 round rule when I was in the Corps. Makes sense to me but I have never had a problem with loading 30.
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 2:08:44 AM EDT
I was told 28 also.
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 8:04:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2002 8:06:30 PM EDT by Gun Guru]
Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Originally Posted By Gun Guru: I use 27 per mag. 13, 30 rnders. mags 9, 20 rnders. I use a coke 6 pack reinforced with duct tape, the paper kind for the 16.5 0z bottles, holds 12 mags and one in the gun. GG
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[>:/][>:/][>:/][>:/]
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Yeah but my stuff is loaded right now and I can run out of the house at a moments notice and hold off swat or jehovas witnesses. GG I see now. 20 rnders get 20
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 9:23:10 PM EDT
I wasn't disapproving GunGuru, I was confused by your statement....I can't read it right. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 2:22:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 2:50:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 2:56:56 AM EDT
28 is what is what I taught at MCRD-SD, MCT West and TBS, it is what has been taught to Marines/recruits/Lts at those 3 sites for over a decade.
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 3:10:27 AM EDT
MCRDPI (92), told 28. Maybe it depended on where your PMI attended HIS initial training....LOL....This question is close to making it three pages now. If we work this right we maybe able to turn this into a "sandflea vs. mt. motherf###er" argument[;D]
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 7:29:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 4:36:46 PM EDT
Hm... Definately an old school thing. I loaded them up to 30, 31 once. Couldn't figure out why the mag went home for a while but... that's another story. 'course I am/was a pogue so what do I know. PS. I've never seen "pogue" in writing. Is that how it's spelled? PPS. I've been away on vacations and road trips here and there for a long while and I just got back, what was the call on the AWB?
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 4:51:31 PM EDT
A Recon marine I work with......says one round less than it`s rated for.........[:|]
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 5:53:15 PM EDT
In the Army we load 30 rds, the weapons are more reliable, and we generaly keep newer mags in the inventory. FREE
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 6:11:44 PM EDT
My father (who was in Vietnam) said that the extra 2 rounds could be a matter of life and death. [xx(]
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 6:46:38 PM EDT
wow I'am shocked . yes fire for effect I think you spelled it correctly,nice to read somebody acuallly admitting to be a pogue, seams as if everybody is a grunt anymore. I was instructed to load 28 always for a mutitude of reasons, many have already been posted. One reason we got (P.I. 1985) was "In combat if you get dirt, grass, grit etc. in your mag it will most likeley sit at the bottom so you don't compress mag springs to the point were the coil is maxed out in the debris at the bottom.Go with what you know.
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 9:33:58 PM EDT
We were all taught to load 28 rounds and it was the same thing in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Marine Divisions that I witnessed. Also we cleaned our rifles weekly and the regular inspections of feild equipment ensured that our mags were kept clean inside and out. Semper Fi.
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