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Posted: 12/20/2002 7:58:59 AM EDT
Bratton clarifies call for curbs on police pursuits, saying officers must use training, experience and 'sixth sense.'      LA Times Headlines By Andrew Blankstein, Times Staff Writer A pursuit that began with a speeding violation morphed into a deadly shootout early Thursday in which suspected gang members fired a shotgun and an automatic weapon at officers, leading Los Angeles Police Chief William J. Bratton to clarify his earlier call for restrictions on such chases. In tempering his earlier remarks, Bratton said officers should always be allowed to use their training, experience, instincts and "sixth sense" to decide how to confront criminals. The chase ended when four people in the fleeing car crashed into a truck. One man was shot to death by officers in the chase, which began with a minor traffic violation -- the type of event that Bratton said Tuesday should not justify a pursuit. Three of the four suspects are known gang members. One is wanted by federal authorities, and another was being sought for a state probation violation. Bratton praised the performance of the 14 officers involved in the chase as heroic. "It was only through the grace of God that more lives were not lost," Bratton said. Bratton said the incident had not changed his plan to "prohibit to the greatest degree possible officers initiating a pursuit based on an infraction." He said Thursday's pursuit would have been justified under even the more restrictive proposed policy. "There is always going to be an exception to any policy," Bratton said. Police Commission President Rick Caruso, who argued earlier this week for even more stringent controls on chases than Bratton, said that whatever policy is adopted, there need to be good-faith exceptions. "It brings a different side of the story," Caruso said of Thursday's incident. "We've talked about when an innocent person is injured. But there's a legitimate argument that with the actions of the officers, a crime was prevented, and we have to take that into account. No matter what policy we adopt, it has to allow the ability for the officers to use their judgment to initiate a pursuit, even if it's not technically in policy." The nearly half-hour gun battle began at 2:30 a.m. near Country Club Drive and Western Avenue when seven-year Police Department veteran Peter Galen, 32, and his partner, Roger Fontes, 31, with four years on the force, saw a speeding car, Bratton said. When they tried to pull the vehicle over, the driver wouldn't stop, touching off a minute-long chase. The car stopped at 12th Place and Serrano Avenue. As officers pulled up, the suspects opened fire at close range with a handgun, a shotgun and a fully automatic assault rifle, then continued their flight, police said. One of the officers returned fire through the windshield of his patrol car. Other units picked up the chase at Vermont Avenue and Wilshire Boulevard. The suspects opened fire again at a parking garage near the intersection. Officer Ralph Camarillo, 29, a six-year veteran returned fire, authorities said. The pursuit continued across the city for 20 minutes before the car clipped a large truck in the 1800 block of South Olive Street and plowed into a tree. Earlier in the week, Bratton proposed using helicopters and supervisors whenever possible to take control of chases, while banning pursuits that began with minor offenses, such as speeding. Such pursuits account for 60% of police chases. Police said the three surviving suspects will be charged with attempted murder of a police officer and may be prosecuted for the death of their friend. Bratton commented on the shooting after meeting with six members of Congress in which city leaders asked for more federal help to stem the tide of gang violence by avoiding cutbacks in the Housing Authority Police and continuing funding for a program that coordinates law enforcement in high-crime areas. The city leaders met in Mayor James K. Hahn's office with Reps. Howard Berman (D-Woodland Hills), Xavier Becerra (D-Los Angeles), Maxine Waters (D-Los Angeles), Juanita Millender-McDonald (D-Carson), Lucille Roybal-Allard (D-Los Angeles) and Diane Watson (D-Los Angeles). They pledged to seek more federal help for Los Angeles. Hahn also met separately with U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) on the same issue.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 10:26:33 AM EDT
hmmm, that movie was pretty decent but I don't remember any officer training involved in it
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 10:35:20 AM EDT
Sixth Sense? Can they fly and look through walls too?
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 10:40:13 AM EDT
... I see guilty people
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 11:09:00 AM EDT
I have never experienced anyone who ran in a vehicle over just a minor traffic violation; there has always been something more, even if it was just minor warrants. The act of evading in a vehicle is inherently dangerous. Instead of banning pursuits, agencies should try to have the use-of-force requirements loosened for fleeing in a vehicle (damn Tennessee vs. Garner).
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 11:47:33 AM EDT
I know what to tell the officers. To make sure that you only stop the right people, be sure to "profile " them first. I believe that Texas has made it something that they call a State Jail Felony to run from the cops in one of these chases.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 1:18:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: ... I see guilty people
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LMFAO
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 1:22:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 1:28:58 PM EDT
I see an increase in crime..........
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 1:41:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2002 1:44:14 PM EDT by Semanon13]
The bad guys start the entire script. It's their choice to run, crash, shoot and hurt anyone in the area. The police have to try to curb the bad guys. I understand, bystanders are at risk. The same bystanders that want the police to do their job if they are assaulted or worse by the bad guys. [u]It's a street war. We are loosing.[/u] The bad guys in any war, have not rules. They can kill or harm anyone. The good guys have rules to follow and have to avoid hurting citizens, even to the extent to getting killed themselves. I would bet my paycheck, no police officer has ever intentionally harmed an innocent citizen.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 1:48:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Semanon13: The bad guys start the entire script. It's their choice to run, crash, shoot and hurt anyone in the area. The police have to try to curb the bad guys. I understand, bystanders are at risk. The same bystanders that wan the police to do their job if they are assaulted or worse by the bad guys. [u]It's a street war.[/u] The bad guys in any war, have not rules. They can kill or harm anyone. The good guys have rules to follow and have to avoid hurting citizens, even to the extent to getting killed themselves. I would bet my paycheck, no police officer has ever intentionally harmed an innocent citizen.
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Oh man, let me be the very first to take that bet! That is, assuming you aren't playing semantics with the word innocent. I take innocent to mean that the police have no constitutional basis for harming that person. In that case, I can give you the names of former local PD that have admitted doing such things. Police are not superhuman, there are rotten ones in the bunch just as there are in any profession/race/walk of life/gender etc. Evil and wrongdoing transcend just about any boundary and classification. The group of officers falling into the category that you believe does not exist would also expand exponentially if you use the word intentionally in the same manner as it is used against the accused in this country. As for war... that saddens me. A government should not wage a war on its own citizens. Particularly not for speeding, smoking pot and other relatively minor transgressions. If my government makes war on me, I have no choice but to defend myself.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 1:52:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Semanon13: The bad guys start the entire script. It's their choice to run, crash, shoot and hurt anyone in the area. The police have to try to curb the bad guys. I understand, bystanders are at risk. The same bystanders that want the police to do their job if they are assaulted or worse by the bad guys. [u]It's a street war. We are loosing.[/u] The bad guys in any war, have not rules. They can kill or harm anyone. The good guys have rules to follow and have to avoid hurting citizens, even to the extent to getting killed themselves. [red]I would bet my paycheck, no police officer has ever intentionally harmed an innocent citizen.[/red]
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I'll take that bet
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 2:34:33 PM EDT
I saw some news footage video on the 6pm news, and it shows some 7.62x39 unfired ammo. Didn't show the gun though.
Originally Posted By legalese77: As for war... that saddens me. A government should not wage a war on its own citizens. Particularly not for speeding, smoking pot and other relatively minor transgressions. If my government makes war on me, I have no choice but to defend myself.
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OT - The war on drugs under Hillary Clinton has morphed into war on guns. Sad! Sad! Sad!
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 3:15:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2002 3:16:24 PM EDT by Semanon13]
OK. "I would bet my paycheck, no police officer has ever intentionally harmed an innocent citizen." I wish I had a paycheck. You don't wanta take my welfare check, Do you?. Ok.. I meant GOOD COPS. Not the A.H.'s that abuse their power. Do I get to keep my welfare check???? It is Christmas time. [<|:d>]
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 3:54:00 PM EDT
Does this mean that if I'm speeding in LA and the cops try to pull me over, and I don't stop, they'll just go away? That's sure to reduce crime. Next up, if a suspect starts a fight with an officer, he will be required to run away, since innocent people could get hit by a stray punch. It would also cut down on frivolous lawsuits by suspects. Crime just gets lower and lower. [BD]
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 4:02:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2002 4:04:12 PM EDT by gardenWeasel]
  In tempering his earlier remarks, Bratton said officers should always be allowed to use their training, experience, instincts and "sixth sense" to decide how to confront criminals.
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"Sixth sense" must be the new P.C. term for racial profiling.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 4:12:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 5:21:58 PM EDT
[b]Bratton said the incident had not changed his plan to "prohibit to the greatest degree possible officers initiating a pursuit based on an infraction."[/b] So um, just let the crooks go? Yeah. Good plan. [rolleyes] CMOS
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 6:49:10 PM EDT
http://www.itsalladream.com/force.html [img]http://www.itsalladream.com/aft/force1.jpg[/img] [b] A new lecture series being hosted at the police academy[/b]
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 7:30:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: ... I see guilty people
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It's pretty obvious you're faking it. You should have posted ...I see... guilty people [;)]
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