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Posted: 12/18/2002 10:31:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2002 10:34:19 PM EDT by Pthfndr]
But they're going ahead with the new governors mansion. Sheesh. From tonights news. With that amount of money you could: buy 1,750,000 Honda Civics Lay off [b]every[/b] state paid worker, close every state college and university, and still be in debt. Give $1000 to every resident of the state ( hmm, does that include illegals?? ) OR buy 48,000,000+ Bushmaster M4A3 rifles from Gunsmoke buy 4,657,534 Barrett M82A1 .50 cal rifles Yeah Legislature, let's enact some more non cost effective gun laws while we still have a few tax payers left to pay for them [:(]
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 10:37:05 PM EDT
How will Davis be able to blame this on Bush or Republicans?
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 10:46:20 PM EDT
I just heard this on the news and I just about went through the roof. Now he is going to raise taxes and watch all the middle class and rich take off to other states. This is actually becoming a problem since all the Hollywood rich and elite are Democrats, but don't officially live in this state. This bill will be thrown on the backs of the middle class, who have the option of leaving to other states, and do. The only people who will be left are the poor, who as a group, don't cover the services they use in the state. California is going to have to realize that we can't have any socialism of any kind without having taxes that cause the rich and middle class to leave California. In two months, California will wish Davis was dead.
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 10:53:19 PM EDT
THIS IS WHY I VOTED FOR HIM!!! Its part of my plan you see. If he bankrupts the state, they cant have anymore of those gun buyback programs!! UGH I cant believe I said that (THIS IS WHY I VOTED FOR HIM!!!) MY EYES MY EYES!!!! [BD]
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 11:25:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2002 11:27:17 PM EDT by warlord]
I guess the free lunch is over, literally. Those unrealistic knot-headed politicians in Sacramento are about to get a strong dose of reality. After years of supporting all those social welfare programs, the cows are about to come. The Democratic politicos are about to make to some real tough, hard and possible politically career-ending choices that cut to the heart of the Democratic Party philosophies. And the people of Calif. will rightfully blame them for running the state financially into the ground since they pretty much have complete control of the state, from the executive level down to the local assembly level. We currently are among the highest cost of living in the USA and from the looks of it is going to be higher. In the past if these politicos can't deal realistically with guns, they are certainly not going to deal realistically with money. Now we can just sit back and watch the great State of Calif. Implode. Just like the Soviet Union. ================================================================================================ From the local all news radio station KFWB 980AM: [url]http://www.kfwb.com/news_local.asp?displayOption=&contentGUID={C1322080-3F2A-4DD3-B7B8-F9F2574BAEF9}&groupName=KFWB Front Page Local Headlines&siteGUID={3B62BF55-4A93-48E6-A45D-6A495DC423AD}[/url] Davis: Budget Shortfall Will Exceed $34 Billion SACRAMENTO (AP) 12.18.02, 4:32p -- California's budget deficit will reach a staggering $34.8 billion over the next 18 months, leaving a gulf too wide to bridge without raising taxes, Gov. Gray Davis said Wednesday. The unprecedented deficit equals more than $1,000 per each of the state's 34 million residents and exceeds the entire general fund budget of every state but New York. "This problem is so big that we don't have a lot of time for hand-wringing," Davis said. "We have to face this problem head-on." Preparing to make his case for deep spending cuts and possible tax increases, Davis has hinted for weeks that the shortfall would far exceed the $21 billion estimated last month by Legislative Analyst Elizabeth Hill. On Wednesday, he revealed the magnitude of the problem as forecast by his top economic advisers and urged lawmakers to pass quickly $10.2 billion in cuts he proposed early this month. He said he will release his plan to fill the deficit's remaining two-thirds when he submits his proposed 2003-04 fiscal year budget to lawmakers in January. That, he said, will likely include tax and fee increases. The nearly $35 billion two-year budget deficit amounts to 45 percent of the state's entire 2002-03 general fund budget, Davis said. The $76.8 billion general fund includes most of the state's spending, revenues and operations. The overall budget for 2002-03 is $98.9 billion, which includes money earmarked for special purposes, bond and other funds. "If anything, the magnitude of this problem underscores the urgency to act swiftly on the reductions I've already proposed," Davis said. Davis has proposed $10.2 billion in cuts over the next 18 months -- which include about $3.4 billion from the current budget and savings and cuts of almost $7 billion in the coming budget year that begins July 1. The reductions include steep cuts to education, health and welfare services and the state's payroll. Budget writers blame the shortfall on declining revenues, which now are expected to fall $17 billion below expectations for the rest of this fiscal year and the next one. Davis said the economy also failed to improve in the middle of the year as expected. The state relies heavily on income and capital gains taxes from its wealthiest individuals, who have been hurt financially the past two years. But even sales taxes, which generally produce a reliable source of cash, have dipped below expectations, Davis said. Additionally, the state will abruptly lose billions of dollars it used from one-time fixes to the current fiscal year shortfall. Davis signed into law a 2002-03 budget on Sept. 5 that included cuts, borrowing and a slew of one-time solutions to fill a $23.6 billion shortfall. "We didn't want to savage health and welfare programs and knock people off programs for which they are eligible if the economy was going to bounce back that quickly," he said. California's budget shortfall -- and its budget -- are by far the nation's largest, but many states face steep shortfalls for the second straight year. "There was strong confidence that there would be a rebound by mid-2002. So many budgets were based on that assumption that did not hold up and unfortunately those budgets will now pay the price," said Arturo Perez, a senior fiscal analyst at the National Conference of State Legislatures. California's deficit has exaggerated an ongoing battle over tax increases. Republicans have said they will block any budget that includes higher taxes, but in his strongest terms so far, Davis said he likely will call for increases and asked lawmakers to put aside "rigid ideology." Although Democrats control the Legislature, a handful of Republican votes are needed to achieve the required two-thirds majority vote for the budget. "To get that kind of a figure, you would have to assume that the economy is going to get much worse in the coming year or so, and if that's the case, what is the governor going to do about that?" asked GOP Assemblyman John Campbell, R-Irvine, budget committee vice chairman. Davis told the Legislature's top four leaders of the deficit during a conference call Wednesday morning. The new deficit numbers just show "the state was spending too much money," said Senate Republican leader Jim Brulte, of Rancho Cucamonga. He and other Republican lawmakers have called for an immediate halt to legislation that would involve new spending and a proposed constitutional amendment to limit state spending. Dave Cox of Fair Oaks, the Assembly's top Republican, said in a statement that "new taxes won't solve the problem" and won't improve California's economy. But Davis' deficit announcement comes on the third and final day of legislative hearings this week throughout the state, in which advocates have pleaded with lawmakers to raise taxes to keep their programs from budget cuts. Education and health advocates used the new budget forecast to bolster their case, saying the deficit shows the state can't cut its way out of the problem. Meanwhile, Davis on Wednesday also announced that he has selected former state senator and one of the legislative architects of the state's bungled electricity deregulation, Steve Peace, as his top financial adviser to replace Finance Department Director Tim Gage, who is stepping down in late January.
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 11:29:17 PM EDT
Why no talk of MAJOR budget shortfalls before the Kommie election?
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 11:45:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 11:54:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SeaDweller: Why no talk of MAJOR budget shortfalls before the Kommie election?
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The news media fell down on the job. Those democratic-leaning folks was pretty much fixiated on Republican candidate's personal problems etc, and those media folks didn't want focus on the budget problem because it would make "gray"out Davis look bad. The Democrats are to 100% to blame for this debacle since they control control both houses of the legislature for the past 8 years and the top executive for the past 4 years.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 12:38:05 AM EDT
[imbroglio on][b]Woo Hoo[/b][imbroglio off]
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 1:34:49 AM EDT
To cover for the shortfall, there will be a 10% gas tax. Supposedly this will help aliviate some of the deficit. Couple this with the taxing the rich BS and I won't be rich anymore. I mean hell, I already see almost half of my income go to the federal government. Now the California government wants to tax me more and rape me with gas taxes. My State is broken, can I borrow yours?
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 2:39:43 AM EDT
Sounds to me like they should declare the state bankrupt, which it is, morally and financialy.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 3:51:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: Sounds to me like they should declare the state bankrupt, which it is, morally and financialy.
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How can an entity such as a state be morally bankrupt? Are you saying all us residents are morally bankrupt? If so, you better have a smile on your face.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 3:53:15 AM EDT
Ya and the rumor here is that Gray Davis may run for President!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 6:55:56 AM EDT
So is Kommiefornia still the siXth largest economy in the world? DO they owe more $$$$ than any states in the Union?
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 6:58:54 AM EDT
As a Californian I am happy the state is going broke. If people feel secure they will not vote for change. Sometimes it takes a hard kick in the ass to get people to think. Cal just got a very hard kick in ass. Last election I voted for more spending to speed this up. There are good things already happening. The state agency that helps illegals get citizenship will be closed down.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 7:21:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Pthfndr: From tonights news. With that amount of money you could: buy 1,750,000 Honda Civics
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Is that what CA did?
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 7:38:46 AM EDT
If they raise taxes and I am unable to buy Pinks hot dogs I will be pissed!
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 7:44:36 AM EDT
Weren't they going to put some kind of huge tax on ammo the other day? That should surely cover the deficit.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 7:53:03 AM EDT
As the Wall Street Journal said about governor Davis, this is a no brainer. Just charge all of the illegals and other foreigners a $1.00 a head tax. They will have a surplus in no time.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 7:55:49 AM EDT
lol 00buck, good idea [BD] u know, i bet in a few years we'll have over a million civics.. watch out..ricer coming down the road.. /fartnoise vroooommmmmmmmm /fartnoise
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 8:17:41 AM EDT
I smell a rat. How is it possible for the number to grow so large so fast? How do you miscount 24 billion dollars? I think Davis is exaggerating the number to force the Republicans to agree to a tax hike, and suddenly the deficit is gone with less spending cut. This will prove to the world that raising tax DOES work, Democrats will look golden and Davis is off to run for the presidency.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 11:49:13 AM EDT
He's using Enron accounting standards.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 12:10:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By warlord: From the local all news radio station KFWB: "This problem is so big that we don't have a lot of time for hand-wringing," Davis said. "We have to face this problem head-on."
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Thanks for the laugh warlord! "We need to face this problem head-on". lol. WTF were you doing the last 4 years, Red? They thought that every year was going to be like 98 and the internet/hitech money was going to keep pouring in forever. And no one bothered to revise the budget predictions after the economy took a dump. My dad pointed out that the one good thing with Davis winning the election was that he would be stuck with the budget mess he and the pinkos in the legislature created. Look for the demos to continue to blame the repubs in the legislature since they wont pass a new budget with tons of tax increases. Write your member and tell them you oppose any tax increases to pay for their mistakes. There is so much fat that can be cut from this states budget.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 12:15:43 PM EDT
This makes me wonder if the management team of United Air Lines might actually be the Governor and chief bureaucrats of California. It could explain a few things... CJ
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 4:05:15 PM EDT
PINKS!!!!!! HOT DOGS if you dont know, find out. [url]http://www.pinkshollywood.com/[/url]
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 4:33:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DVDTracker:
Why no talk of MAJOR budget shortfalls before the Kommie election?
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There was, but that was from the Simon camp, not Davis. There was already a $21 billon deficit before the election and the voters STILL voted in billions more in bonds. Either the people were A) too dumb to realize that we were already in debt, or B) too naieve to think that we can keep spending. I'm surrounded by morons, and it truely frightens me.
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Tracker, your forgetting people really don't give a flying shit about a deficit, that's tomorrow's news, today they need dough cause they don't want to work. In a case like this, the state's "elite" should step in and say whoa! They don't, job security. [:(][:(!]
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 4:36:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 89hawk: As a Californian I am happy the state is going broke. If people feel secure they will not vote for change. Sometimes it takes a hard kick in the ass to get people to think. Cal just got a very hard kick in ass. Last election I voted for more spending to speed this up. There are good things already happening. The state agency that helps illegals get citizenship will be closed down.
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Do you think in a country where we'd rather offend ourselfs then arab "students" over on a visa is going to cut the right programs like you mentioned? Imbrog mode isn'r required for that statment.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 4:38:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2002 4:42:38 PM EDT by Hydguy]
Have the politicians vote themselves a pay cut. Not likely, they probably have already passed a pay increase for themselves . New theory...... Davis is TRYING to drive the Americans out to help Presidete Fox create Alazan!
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 4:39:48 PM EDT
Someone posted a similar thread last week. I was all worked up over this! THIS SHOULD BE HEADLINE NEWS!!! This is proof! I'm even outraged that more of you aren't outraged. California IS america in 10-20 if we don't wake up!
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 5:33:27 PM EDT
Cal just got a very hard kick in ass.
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That's a sure way to induce brain damage in a Cal. politician...kick him in the ass! I will watch the CA situation with great interest over the next couple of months or years. I've never seen an entire STATE declare chapter SEVEN* bankruptcy before! *Chapter seven: Total liquidation of all assets and dissolution of entity. In four more years, ANYBODY who runs against Davis will get more votes than him. I can almost guarantee it. CJ
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 6:56:33 PM EDT
Want to see a perfect example of the CA legislature mindset? Read this article in today's Sacramento Bee. Why does a state rep need a $52,000 Lincoln Navigator paid for by the people - including a free gas card and free maintenance!!!!!!!!!WTF!!! [url]http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/story/5644254p-6619547c.html[/url] Senate, Assembly get deals on wheels Scaling back on luxury wouldn't save much, but some say more modest automobiles would send a symbolic message. On the same week they were sworn in, a week dampened by the gloom that comes with a historic budget deficit, a dozen freshman state lawmakers requested official-use vehicles worth more than $30,000. Read the article for the rest.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 7:22:54 PM EDT
When vehicle, sales and income taxes were boosted in the 90's, state tax revenues actually [b]declined[/b] in a progression: $42 billion in fiscal 1991-92, $41 billion in 1992-93, and $40 billion in 1993-94. "Nevada, here we come." was the cry. It can happen again. I hope (and am writing my assemblyman and senator, both Republicans) the Republicans get a spending amendment before they cave and vote in the new taxes.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 7:46:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2002 7:49:29 PM EDT by MickeyMouse]
mattja wrote: [b] How can an entity such as a state be morally bankrupt? Are you saying all us residents are morally bankrupt? If so, you better have a smile on your face.[/b] Only 1/2 a smile. The residents of CA have elected some pretty screwed up people. They are paying the price for it now. It has been known as the land of "fruits and nuts" for a long time - and for good reason. More political excrement has come out of CA than anywhere, maybe even NY. It is sad there are still some fine people there that, for some reason, have not fled to free areas. I sympathize with their situation but maybe it is time for the PC hellhole to melt down into insolvency. Either the good people will take it back or flee and just give to the wets.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 1:02:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 8:51:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Big_Bear: I was discussing this with a fellow gun owner at work today. He heard on talk radio that they're talking about a [b]retroactive[/b] tax hike. If that goes through, next April not only will I be paying taxes for 2002, but about an additional $2K for tax year 2001. That number is an estimate based on the number of taxpayers in CA and what it would take to pay down the budget deficit. Get your checkbooks out, bend over, and prepare for a royal screwing. Retroactive or not, all Californians are going to pay through the nose. [pissed]
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Actually, this could be the final straw for ALOT of people to move. I know it's happend 2 other times in the last ten years and this was probably said everytime, but I truely believe the ratio will be the highest ever. YAY! Most of them with sell their shacks for a million dollars and bring all that money up here and F the balance up.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 11:30:29 AM EDT
What!!! You mean actions have consequenses?????? That shit ain't right, you can't end the dream like this. Socialism works, utopia is here now, welfare for all... HaHaHa, it's about fucking time. Ought to be an interesting spectacle. -Eric
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 1:42:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2002 10:57:29 AM EDT by libertyof76]
Originally Posted By warlord: Republicans have said they will block any budget that includes higher taxes, but in his strongest terms so far, Davis said he likely will call for increases and asked lawmakers to put aside "rigid ideology."
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Which means that Republicans should compromise and give up their principles. Not that Davis will do any such thing, since he won't cut spending enough.
Education and health advocates used the new budget forecast to bolster their case, saying the deficit shows the state can't cut its way out of the problem.
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How can one use the deficit to say that cuts won't solve the problem, unless you are a moron? All you do is cut until income exceeds expenditures, and use the extra to pay off the debt. The problem is that they don't want to cut anything.
Originally Posted By mattja: How can an entity such as a state be morally bankrupt? Are you saying all us residents are morally bankrupt? If so, you better have a smile on your face.
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You are making a bad assumption here: that the "state" is the same thing as the people. A lot people make the same mistake when they accuse people of being anti-american: that hating the government means you hate the people. As for the state(NOT the people) being morally bankrupt, it means that it has no morals, despite proclaiming moral ideals.
Originally Posted By Hercules2400: He's using Enron accounting standards.
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What government doesn't?
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 3:12:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2002 3:14:27 PM EDT by warlord]
Originally Posted By libertyof76:
Originally Posted By warlord: Republicans have said they will block any budget that includes higher taxes, but in his strongest terms so far, Davis said he likely will call for increases and asked lawmakers to put aside "rigid ideology."
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Which means that Republicans should compromise and give up their principles. Not that Davis will do any such thing, since he won't cut spending enough.
Education and health advocates used the new budget forecast to bolster their case, saying the deficit shows the state can't cut its way out of the problem.
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How can one use the deficit to say that cuts won't solve the problem, unless you are a moron? All you do is cut until income exceeds expenditures, and use the extra to pay off the debt. The problem is that they don't want to cut anything.
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Part of the reason the Republican opposition lost its strenght is because the Republicans caved on the redistricting after the 2000 census. The Reps let the Dems redraw the district lines in order to save their own butts. I wouldn't be too surprised that they would roll-over on the taxes issue also. At least a few, just enough to get the amended budget passed. Of course there will be the usual goating by the news media saying that the Republicans are being partisan and obstructionists, barriers in preventing the budget from passing etc. Yep, there is going to be some agony in passing a balanced budget. Its kind of like "peace in the middle east," but everyone wants it on their own terms.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 3:42:12 PM EDT
This sucks dog shit becuase now even more of the California liberals are going to move to Arizona. Friggin liberals should stay and roll around in their own filth.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 6:22:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tfod: This sucks dog shit becuase now even more of the California liberals are going to move to Arizona. Friggin liberals should stay and roll around in their own filth.
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You say that now but you sure as hell didn't give a fuck when your liberals stopped rolling around in their filth in AZ and moved here. Why don't you shut the fuck up or take [b]your[/b] liberals and [b]your[/b] illegals back to your own state.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 8:12:46 PM EDT
California is the hive for liberalism and illegal immigration west of the Mississippi. Arizona liberals? They both couldn't have moved to CA. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 8:43:20 PM EDT
did i mention i'm out of this hell hole in 11 days?!?! wa here i come!
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 8:51:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2002 9:15:45 PM EDT by tfod]
Originally Posted By Pthfndr:
Originally Posted By tfod: This sucks dog shit becuase now even more of the California liberals are going to move to Arizona. Friggin liberals should stay and roll around in their own filth.
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You say that now but you sure as hell didn't give a fuck when your liberals stopped rolling around in their filth in AZ and moved here. Why don't you shut the fuck up or take [b]your[/b] liberals and [b]your[/b] illegals back to your own state.
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If they were ours, they wouldn't be illegal. No shit huh? Then they would be migrants... but they are illegal immigrants from Mexico not Arizona. I can find a link to an atlas if you need further guidance. And Arizona wasn't and hasn't been filth, the people here have so much power that the rest of the states were afraid to let us in... so we removed powers from our constitution, became a State, and then put them right back in. A bit of history. As far as any liberals leaving Arizona for your state, that is good shit. I hope more move there, hell, the last time I was in California I pissed in your ocean. So either: A: realize I don't give a crap about dumping my liberal trash in your yard. B: All of the above. Edited to remove some curse words.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 9:30:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 9:52:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By libertyof76:
Originally Posted By mattja: How can an entity such as a state be morally bankrupt? Are you saying all us residents are morally bankrupt? If so, you better have a smile on your face.
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You are making a bad assumption here: that the "state" is the same thing as the people. A lot people make the same mistake when they accuse people of being anti-american: that hating the government means you hate the people. As for the state(NOT the people) being morally bankrupt, it means that it has no morals, despite proclaiming moral ideals.
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Thanks, I am well aware as to the difference between the people and the state. I was seeking a clarification from MickeyMouse, which he tried to provide, although, not very well.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 10:02:17 PM EDT
People don't usually leave CA because of high taxes. If that were the case there would have been an exodus throughout the 70's, 80's, and 90's. People leave when the economy busts, when they can't get home or health insurance (some carriers are refusing to write new policies in CA because of earthquakes), etc. The way the zoning laws are, and the greenbelt/open space laws, it is a given that your home will rise in value. That's enough to keep people from leaving. There seems to be enough to keep people here, regardless of the tax situation. It's a nice place to live. Now, if we could just send the liberals back from whence they came.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 11:29:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2002 11:37:12 PM EDT by Tripwire]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally Posted By tfod: This sucks dog shit becuase now even more of the California liberals are going to move to Arizona. Friggin liberals should stay and roll around in their own filth. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AMEN I just hope the climate is too cold for the CA (socialist) sheeple to move here, weve got enough tree hugers and nature freaks coming in from Kalifornistan as is[pissed]
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 12:10:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2002 9:02:47 PM EDT by Graffiti]
I think they should unban assault rifles and high cap mags. They can charge tax on them. I don't mind paying extra tax money to buy them.
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 12:59:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 1:37:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2002 1:38:21 AM EDT by DVDTracker]
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 2:36:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2002 2:38:14 AM EDT by ProfGAB101]
Memo to Gov, Davis. RE:Your up a creek without a solvent checkbook. OK, So you know, and now everyone else knows who scr*wed the pooch. You (The CA government) need cash like RTFN! Here is an option: Reverse your Bogus "Assault Weapons" ban and allow buyers to obtain these items with the payment of a $200 per item bond. Remove the old law banning items on the NFA list and allow citizens to obtain these by payment of a $1000 per item bond. This is A Bond initiative, should you or future state government officials renege on this and try to ban these weapons again, then the bond face value, plus interest from date of purchase will be due. edit: Its extortion - but we would pay.
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