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Posted: 12/17/2002 6:28:20 PM EDT
I am in the market for a new water heaterfor my home.Am seriously looking at the whole house Bosch tankless water heater system.I have used tankless systems when I live in Hong kong but those were used just for the bathroom only. Tried asking the guys at HD and lowes but those guy know squat about them even though they sell them.So my questions go to the Ar15.com brains. do they really provide adequate water for the whole house? Any comments welcome thanks
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 6:39:04 PM EDT
I too would like some info on this.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 6:52:27 PM EDT
Funny you should ask. I installed one in my house last week. It was a Niagra Titan model N-120. It is rated for the whole house. I installed the new wiring and breaker required. Number 6 wire and 60 amp breaker. Plumbed the unit in and flipped on the breaker. BAM It blew. Smoke and arc from the breaker and unit. I called the manufacturer and the tech rep said it sounded like a bad unit. No problem, they would send another right out. I had to pay 2nd day shipping and cold showered for 3 days. I recieved and installed the replacement unit on last friday. It worked till sunday morning. My water coming in to the house is 48 degrees and I have 3/4" lines through out. too much volume and too cold of supply water for the unit. At a normal nongushing flow in the kitchen sink I had 120 degree water. At a low rinse flow I had 140 degree water. In the shower I used only the hot side and medium flow and the water was just right. At full volume on the shower or bath tub it was luke warm. Like I said it lasted till sunday and died. I pulled it out, refurbished my old tank type water heater and reinstalled it. To be fair, I have three friends with the same unit in their homes and they have no complaints. I bought mine for $240 delivered. I am returning the two dead units and hope I don't get any crap from them on my refund. If you need more info from me email or IM me.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 7:23:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 9:09:45 PM EDT
so they seem to work.Pangea is yours an electric unit?? do the gas units reguire a electic source to power it??
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 9:18:55 PM EDT
I have friend shopping for best prices. He's tempted by e-bay. Sorry, no first hand experience but tankless seems a growing trend.
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 4:33:40 AM EDT
Yes, Wash-AR15, mine was an electric model tankless water heater. It needed a #6 wire; two hots and a neutral, and a 60 amp breaker. I just wish it would have worked like it was supposed to.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 4:01:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15: I am in the market for a new water heaterfor my home.Am seriously looking at the whole house Bosch tankless water heater system. do they really provide adequate water for the whole house? Any comments welcome thanks
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I have the Bosch(gas) and I am happy with it. Works great with plenty of hot water. I would like to have it in a pilotless ignition but I don't think they make it like that.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 6:29:04 AM EDT
Pangea, I am certainly no expert (though I play one on the internet). I did a bit of research into these things. And it sounds like you understand what the problem is. Simply, the incoming water temperature is too low to get the water to the tempertaure you desire with the water flow you desire. These things certainly work, the issue is that unlike a tank system that stores water and heats it to a specific temperture via elements and a thermostat, the tankless must heat the water as it passes through. Hence, a rated unit can only raise the temp a certain amount. If you live in the mountains of Vermont or similar cold area with incoming water source of 40 degrees, it takes a lot to raise the temp to 120 degrees. My guess is in such an area maybe two units would work. One on the incoming source to raise the temp from 40 to 80. The other takes it from 80 to 140. I don't know if this is possible or allowed. Just an idea. I am thinking about installing one just for the master bath in my house. The plumbing from the hot water tank to the master bath is a LONG run. It takes 3-5 minutes for hot water in the winter. And uses a lot of hot water just to heat the pipes on the way there. We will also be testing capacity when my relatives come to stay at Christmas. Only two of is is OK but 6 might get interesting.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 4:47:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jimmybcool: I am thinking about installing one just for the master bath in my house. The plumbing from the hot water tank to the master bath is a LONG run. It takes 3-5 minutes for hot water in the winter. And uses a lot of hot water just to heat the pipes on the way there. We will also be testing capacity when my relatives come to stay at Christmas. Only two of is is OK but 6 might get interesting.
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Wondering Would you eliminate the hot line coming from the water heater tank? If not, do you think it would be a waste as you are using water that has been heated twice? If you do eliminate it can you just Tee off the cold line before the tankless water heater so you still have control over the temp at the tap with your shower valve/faucets? Am I making sense? Sorry! Just curious
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 5:08:02 PM EDT
Bosch Aquastar (gas) is top ofthe line for tankless. Best deal you can get is from HomeDepot (even though they know nothing bout the unit). They (Bosch)now have an electronic igniter (no pilot)model that costs $100. more than the standard pilot model. I think it needs a battery.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 5:10:07 PM EDT
Pangea and I have been discussing his trials with the Niagra via email for a while now. I had been seriously considering the change myself to the tankless as my current water heater is about dead. However, I DO live in the mountains and our line from the well is only about 10" underground - so when it gets really cold up here (sometimes in the single digits) the water coming in is VERY cold. I don't think a tankless will work for me - which is too bad. So, its off to Lowes for a new 40 gallon electric - I'll just have to learn to live with the higher costs associated with it.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 7:41:35 PM EDT
Installing tankless water heaters is a tankless job. But somebody has to do it.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 7:56:27 PM EDT
How do they handle scale buildup? Seems like an occasional cleaning would be necessary in hard-water areas —
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 8:55:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RipMeyer: Wondering Would you eliminate the hot line coming from the water heater tank? If not, do you think it would be a waste as you are using water that has been heated twice? If you do eliminate it can you just Tee off the cold line before the tankless water heater so you still have control over the temp at the tap with your shower valve/faucets? Am I making sense? Sorry! Just curious
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Yeah, you make sense. Basically, I would only plumb the shower in the master bath. Take the cold water feed and connect the tankless water heater. When you want a shower you turn on the water heater and out comes hot water. You can adjust the temp right on the unit as it mounts on the wall of the shower. The rest of the house would stay on the tank. Most people do this to save the money wasted heating a tank of water all day. In my case it would be to have instant showers in the master bath, and reduce hot water use as I think we use half the tank in the AM just heating the p ipes under the house to the master bath. And consider what state I live in. Still, we notice the differnece in the winter. There isn't enough water for us both to take a shower without a 20 minute wait. In the summer there is. Tells me we waste a lot of water in the winter.
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