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Posted: 12/17/2002 10:23:11 AM EDT
[url]http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north146.html[/url] Probably the best analysis of the underlying reasons why the US is about to make the terrible mistake of invading Iraq. How can you military guys go along with this? It's too bad that Bush & Co. won't at least cut you in for some of the profits. You won't even see any benefit as a consumer, either. The state just makes us pay and pay and tells us it's for our own good. Have fun in your war, I hope you are not terribly maimed or get your dick shot off or something like that. But if you do, remember that it's so that few rich guys can control the world. It sure as hell isn't about WMDs or terrorism, that's the biggest lie of them all!
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 10:42:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2002 10:42:15 AM EDT by BuLLet]
Trick or Treat?? Hopefully you'll get drafted trick.. [;)]
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 10:49:30 AM EDT
i don't think china or north korea will allow such an occupation to occurr without incident.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 10:57:18 AM EDT
This war is about oil.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 11:58:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: It sure as hell isn't about WMDs or terrorism, that's the biggest lie of them all!
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No, the biggest lie of them all is Lew Rockwell calling himself a Libertarian.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 12:02:49 PM EDT
"No-exit strategy" is exactly the same thing the republicans were complaining about during klinton's military campaigns. Damn hypocrites.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 12:08:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: "No-exit strategy" is exactly the same thing the republicans were complaining about during klinton's military campaigns. Damn hypocrites.
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No, you're assuming that Rockwell's screed is CORRECT. That's always a bad assumption, since nothing on his site has been worth reading since 9-11.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 12:10:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By racebaiter: i don't think china or north korea will allow such an occupation to occurr without incident.
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I sure as hell hope they try. But they won't...they are more sensible than the foreign policy "experts" around here.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 12:26:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2002 12:29:18 PM EDT by AcidGambit]
This war is about oil.
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Yea, that's why we are about to attack/invade Venezuela. That arguement worked the first time, not this time. Personally, I'd strike a deal... You can do whatever you want in the confines of Iraq, you give us really cheap oil and don't f#$k with us. Who cares if he treats his people like crap, if they can't stand up for themselves, then let them rot.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 12:31:02 PM EDT
No acid you missed the point, sodamn is a threat to the world...look at all he has done in the last 10 years to the american people.........
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 12:35:04 PM EDT
Yet more jibber jabber from the imbro team.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 12:38:17 PM EDT
Saddam is a POS but look at how many other bad guys perpetuate the world who the US could care less about? Its all a big game ultimately to occupy our feeble minds while our freedoms continue to erode. I have served my country and will serve again - but am not blind to the fact that money interests and power run what goes on. Republican and Democrats are sending us on the same road to hell - they just go at different speed limits.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 12:47:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By J_Smith: Saddam is a POS but look at how many other bad guys perpetuate the world who the US could care less about? Its all a big game ultimately to occupy our feeble minds while our freedoms continue to erode.
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Yeah, it's all one giant conspiracy...and we're all in on it, even Imbroglio.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 1:08:44 PM EDT
Ok boys since balzac and little ricky seem to continue to believe everything the talking heads tell them....let's do this. Tell us why the US should invade a sovereign foreign country that is not attacking the american people. Use small words. Please convince us, since according to the latest polls, 79% of the people do not think that we should be attacking Iraq. Give us the reasons.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 1:20:42 PM EDT
Why don't you guys move back to Cuba.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 1:27:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hound: Ok boys since balzac and little ricky seem to continue to believe everything the talking heads tell them....let's do this. Tell us why the US should invade a sovereign foreign country that is not attacking the american people. Use small words. Please convince us, since according to the latest polls, 79% of the people do not think that we should be attacking Iraq. Give us the reasons.
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…because they MAY attack us sometime in the future. …because Iraq is the “axis of evil” and everyone knows any axis is bad. …because we need the oil. …to stabilize the region. …because Iraq might have WMD and we know for certain the China, Russia, N. Korea, India, Pakistan will never use theirs so we are ok as long as we take care of Iraq. …because I blindly vote republican and Bush said so.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 1:29:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2002 1:34:05 PM EDT by liberty86]
Funny, I don't see any refuting the article, just general name-calling. It kinda saddens me that some of the best info comes from leftist sources, but there it is. The info I read on them about the bombing of Serbia certainly proved accurate..... From the article, my comment in red; [b]The Administration’s goal of invading Iraq is not about destroying weapons of mass destruction. If it were, we would have invaded North Korea long ago, which is the real producer of such weapons, and says so publicly. It’s about gaining control over the weapon of marginal (oil) pricing. If control over Iraq were about consumer sovereignty, there would be no no-fly zones in Iraq and no oil-for-food embargo on Iraq’s oil exports. The world’s consumers would have been enjoying additional oil for a decade, which would have forced down the price of oil. But American policy is not about forcing down the price of oil. It’s about placing in the hands of the United States government the terms of oil’s production at the margin. This is the most important single economic lever in the world economy and the only major economic lever that the United States government [red]AND the international banking cartel[/red], does not control. [/b] It's old news, but a good read Trick. BTW, I hear construction on the Afghan pipeline will commence this spring or summer, AND the Afghan poppy harvest this year is a record setter. The wackos were talking about that before we invaded too!
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 1:34:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By markl32: …to stabilize the region.
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Hmmm. The reason that bush sr. talking heads gave for not taking out saddam in gulf war v1.0 was that it woud DESTABILIZE the region.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 1:35:50 PM EDT
Cuba? Cuba is next door to the US and had Russian missiles.....Iraq is in the middle of the frigging desert mostly minding its own business now. If it was such a problem, we would have turned Iraq into a big glass surface years ago. Forgot - politics is a stupid f#cking game involving US lives. I'll go to war for my country any day - give me a REASON though. If I am NOT defending and protecting the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic - I don't intend to volunteer for anything. Kosovo and Bosnia were a big f#cking waste of money from what I saw - saw on the ground BTW. Going back to Iraq, Somalia, or wherever needs to be justified other then its just our "foreign policy". North Korea is more of a threat or China who calls us the enemy every time they open their damn mouth. Where's the war against China? Sorry - we buy all our sh#t from them - it would be untactful to go against China in any way. China is worse then Iraq - but none of this is ever about principle. Its about money, power, and whatever agenda George W. and his buddies have. While I'm on a rant, NATO is a waste of money and I hate both the socialist f#cks from the EU and the UN.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 1:37:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2002 1:37:59 PM EDT by GLOCKshooter]
O.K., I'll bite for real (although I was serious that you should move to Cuba). Iraq has ALREADY attacked us. Oklahoma City for sure. Maybe one or two of the "not terrorist" incidents like airplanes exploding because of "static electricity" or "problems with their tail assemblies". Bush knows this, but can't come out and say it.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 1:40:28 PM EDT
By the way, I wasn't invoking the Cuban missile crisis, I was mocking you for being un-American, etc. You know, "love it or leave it," that sort of thing.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 1:45:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GLOCKshooter: O.K., I'll bite for real (although I was serious that you should move to Cuba). Iraq has ALREADY attacked us. Oklahoma City for sure. Maybe one or two of the "not terrorist" incidents like airplanes exploding because of "static electricity" or "problems with their tail assemblies". Bush knows this, but can't come out and say it.
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Yes, just like why Oceania must be at war with Eurasia.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 1:51:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Originally Posted By markl32: …to stabilize the region.
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Hmmm. The reason that bush sr. talking heads gave for not taking out saddam in gulf war v1.0 was that it woud DESTABILIZE the region.
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Damn it Imboglio, we've been had!
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 1:59:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2002 2:00:30 PM EDT by hound]
I have been authorized to bring you a message from the Homeland Security Office "Doubleplusgood, doubleplusungood"
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 1:59:42 PM EDT
Well, my family has only been in the USA 368 years and most of us (myself included) have served honorably in the military since the 1600's - and no, I couldn't find Cuba if I had to. I have served on active duty and will again - this time in a different branch though. I did my time as "peacekeeper" and what a waste of American taxdollars it was. Its possible Bush knows more about Iraq then he is saying but I trust no one in mainstream politics now. Believing that America should be more isolationist doesn't make me un-American - wanting to fight wars all over the globe as the little b#tch boy for the UN or whomever is socialist as all hell though. Maybe some do not like what I have to say - at least I'm not brainwashed.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 2:00:54 PM EDT
This whole Iraq gig is just GWB's answer to Klinton's Kosovo. A big mistake that will cost U.S. servicemen's lives.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 3:54:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: It kinda saddens me that some of the best info comes from leftist sources
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Should tell you more about yourself than the info.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 3:56:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hound: Ok boys since balzac and little ricky seem to continue to believe everything the talking heads tell them.
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No, the talking heads in the media are VERY much opposed to this war. The Hollywood liberals are VERY much opposed to this war. The socialist peaceniks are VERY much opposed to this war. And you and your so-called "Libertarian" ilk are VERY much opposed to this war. Be wary of the company you keep.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 4:22:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Originally Posted By GLOCKshooter: O.K., I'll bite for real (although I was serious that you should move to Cuba). Iraq has ALREADY attacked us. Oklahoma City for sure. Maybe one or two of the "not terrorist" incidents like airplanes exploding because of "static electricity" or "problems with their tail assemblies". Bush knows this, but can't come out and say it.
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Yes, just like why Oceania must be at war with Eurasia.
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1984?
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 4:53:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By J_Smith: Well, my family has only been in the USA 368 years and most of us (myself included) have served honorably in the military since the 1600's - and no, I couldn't find Cuba if I had to. I have served on active duty and will again - this time in a different branch though. I did my time as "peacekeeper" and what a waste of American taxdollars it was. Its possible Bush knows more about Iraq then he is saying but I trust no one in mainstream politics now. Believing that America should be more isolationist doesn't make me un-American - wanting to fight wars all over the globe as the little b#tch boy for the UN or whomever is socialist as all hell though. Maybe some do not like what I have to say - at least I'm not brainwashed.
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Your sentiments are those of a good American patriot. My family too has been here since 1630, and has fought in all her wars except those since Vietnam.....
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 5:13:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By liberty86: It kinda saddens me that some of the best info comes from leftist sources
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Should tell you more about yourself than the info.
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Ummm, so why don't you refute any of the statements eh? It's easy to name call and throw around innuendos. I compare folks such you to the same ones we see on old German news reels throwing the salute, and gleefully marching in lock step...... Too busy following the party line to bother looking at history, or thinking for themselves. Think it can't happen here? It IS happening, you are a prime example.....
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 6:29:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: [Ummm, so why don't you refute any of the statements eh?
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Because we've been through this before and you never accept any refutation, so what's the point of debating with you? The article offers NO evidence of the charge it makes, it only offers assertions. This North fellow says he "believes" this to be true, but offers no evidence, not even a train of logic that would impress anyone who had half a brain. How do you refute it when he offers nothing but his baseless belief? I don't need to refute it...he needs to support it. If he can't, it's self-refuting.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 6:34:49 PM EDT
Hey, if hordes of _fill in the blank_ do invade our shores, I'll be right there fighting them. There is a huge problem of credibility in US policy these days. I think our military is less as "service" to the people and more of a tool for the corporatists. It's been like this since WWI though... Lately, I see it more as a huge jobs program, but of course, they must keep up the patriotic aspects. Either that, or pay more... What is the ire against Lew Rockwell? He is hardly a leftist or a socialist as he does nothing but dismantle collectivist arguments. He is a true libertarian, with anarchist leanings.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 6:39:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Because we've been through this before and you never accept any refutation, so what's the point of debating with you? The article offers NO evidence of the charge it makes, it only offers assertions. This North fellow says he "believes" this to be true, but offers no evidence, not even a train of logic that would impress anyone who had half a brain. How do you refute it when he offers nothing but his baseless belief? I don't need to refute it...he needs to support it. If he can't, it's self-refuting.
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What nonsense. It's an editorial comment, not a scientific treatise. What evidence would you like to see? The writer is not posing a wild conspiracy theory. If you want to plumb the depths, start looking into the alleged pipeline across Afghanistan. Is it real or not? If construction is under way, the puzzle pieces would fit. By the way, what *is* going on in Afghanistan these days? There is zero media coverage from there, it's all Iraq, Iraq, inspections, Blix, Iraq. Meanwhile, while our attention is diverted, what is going on in Afghanistan? Is every soldier rotating back from there sworn to secrecy or what?
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 8:05:03 PM EDT
Speaking of pipelines - part of the reason for the sh#t in the Balkans was an important oil pipleline that was supposed to go through Macedonia, Albania, etc. to the Black Sea. But hey, I'm just a conspiracy nut on this board - nevermind I lived in Kosovo for 7 months in 2000. People talk about mass graves all day but ultimately thats bullsh#t as to why NATO was involved - money makes the world turn - why the hell else would anyone care about the Balkans where they killed each for hundreds of years? Kosovo got worse in many aspects after we got there. Who runs Kosovo now - not NATO - the f#cking Albanian and Russian Mafia along with every terror cell with a chip on their shoulders. A little off topic but anyone who scoffs that the Iraq situation isn't related to money and power is an idiot. If the US has Iraq as a territory - thats a lot of power - and that region has a lot of oil too. Not a reason for us to nuke Baghdad outright - but hey, its globalist politics at work. My rant is off - those with their eyes shut, may, at this time turn their TV remote back to CNN.
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 3:32:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: Hey, if hordes of _fill in the blank_ do invade our shores, I'll be right there fighting them.
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Well, thank God for that! I don't know what we'd do without you fighting beside us!
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 3:37:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: What nonsense. It's an editorial comment, not a scientific treatise. What evidence would you like to see? The writer is not posing a wild conspiracy theory.
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Of course he is. He's asserting, with no proof but his personal, baseless suspicions that the US is 1)attacking Iraq for no other reason but to seize their oil and 2)plan on staying and exploiting it indefinitely. If he has no proof of this, and he admits he doesn't, then why should I believe a word he says? Particularly since it's ludicrous: if we wanted Iraq's oil, we would have taken it after the Gulf War. We didn't then and we aren't now. It's simply more of the Libertarians' bitter, anti-Bush screeds, for which you and your ilk are becoming infamous. You may as well change your monicker to "Liberal Party" because that's what you've become.
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 5:34:23 AM EDT
Little rikky, since you come to name-call and belittle and you know that I ain't your boy, why don't you just have a cup of shut the fuck up? We ain't liberals. Remember bitching about Clinton and the stupid military crap that he did? That is the same thing we are continuing to do. Starting a war for no good reason is wrong whether the dems or rebs do it. Simple enough for ya? You can't come up with one fact that makes sodamn a clear and present danger to the USA. You can't say anything but what your talking head-Ari Fleisher-says. So just got to your grand old party meeting and learn the latest "propaganda for continuing the neverending state of war and terror. Hitler would be so proud of you boys, his made-up enemy didn't have nearly the resources of the current "enemy number one"
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 5:40:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hound: Little rikky, since you come to name-call and belittle and you know that I ain't your boy, why don't you just have a cup of shut the fuck up?
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Why don't you make me?
We ain't liberals.
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I know you desperately WANT to believe that. But the truth is the truth, whether you like it or not.
Remember bitching about Clinton and the stupid military crap that he did? That is the same thing we are continuing to do. Starting a war for no good reason is wrong whether the dems or rebs do it. Simple enough for ya?
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Not simple, just simple-minded. There is a good reason, whether you like it or not. You and the other so-called "Libertarians" (you've really cheapened the name) were making the same noises about Afghanistan. It all really comes down to bitterness at your marginalization and resentment of Bush.
You can't come up with one fact that makes sodamn a clear and present danger to the USA.
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No, I just can't come up with one that YOU will accept...because you've already pre-judged the situation and won't listen to anyone else.
Hitler would be so proud of you boys, his made-up enemy didn't have nearly the resources of the current "enemy number one"
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Whatever you say. I think Stalin would be proud of you, since you're doing such a great job of demonizing America, something he tried to do for decades.
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 6:09:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By liberty86: [Ummm, so why don't you refute any of the statements eh?
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Because we've been through this before and you never accept any refutation, so what's the point of debating with you? The article offers NO evidence of the charge it makes, it only offers assertions. This North fellow says he "believes" this to be true, but offers no evidence, not even a train of logic that would impress anyone who had half a brain. How do you refute it when he offers nothing but his baseless belief? I don't need to refute it...he needs to support it. If he can't, it's self-refuting.
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Rik, history proves them correct. They were correct about the illegal bombing of Serbia, they connected the dots in Afghanistan, and I think are correct about Iraq. The administration has produced zero evidence that Iraq presents a greater threat than North Korea or China. Why not go after some REAL bad boys?
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 6:45:22 AM EDT
Oh the dog tries to bite. Rikky I ain't making you do nothing, the knowledge that your boys are going to take your guns and your freedom is enough for me. Calling be a liberal or a libertarian won't work either. I don't cotton to either of those popular parties. Resentment of Bush, you got to be kidding is that the best you can do? You've got a little Hitler, that is rounding up citizens and having his boys take away gun-rights and giving illegals the vote and rapidly changing america into a police state and you want to defend him? I may be nuts sir, but you are a whack job.If Klinton had even tried to do the things that Bush is doing, you and your buddies would have conniption fits. You can't give one example of Sodamn killing American citizens? All you can do is repeat that "he is dangerous". Demonizing america? You are a party boy aren't you? I didn't say anything about the country, the country is trying to go about it's business and deal with the fallacy that somehow, by taking away the rights and priveleges of law-abiding citizens, asscroft and company can make this a safer place. The country is fine, and getting better, no thanks to people who have been in business with the Saudi's for forty years and who are still covering for the worst enemy that the US has. If we were gearing up to bomb Saudi, I would be dancing in the streets. But it ain't gonna happen. And when the next Saudi sponsored, Saudi run terrorist act happens, who are you going to blame. Clinton and the libertarians again? Or the guys who said he was going Bear hunting and only shoots squirrels?
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 7:07:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: Rik, history proves them correct. They were correct about the illegal bombing of Serbia, they connected the dots in Afghanistan, and I think are correct about Iraq.
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No, in fact the Libertarians were 100% INCORRECT about Afghanistan. That makes them possibly 1 for 3. Good for baseball, not for football or world politics.
The administration has produced zero evidence that Iraq presents a greater threat than North Korea or China. Why not go after some REAL bad boys?
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It's your opinion they've produced no evidence. I disagree. As to why go after Iraq...because there is still TIME to go after Iraq. North Korea most likely already HAS nukes.
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 7:15:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hound: Rikky I ain't making you do nothing, the knowledge that your boys are going to take your guns and your freedom is enough for me.
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That would be the definition of "knowledge" that includes "baseless conspiracy-theory speculation."
Calling be a liberal or a libertarian won't work either.
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Yeah, nothing works with you because you don't bother to compose a rational argument.
I don't cotton to either of those popular parties. Resentment of Bush, you got to be kidding is that the best you can do?
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Truth hurts, huh?
You've got a little Hitler, that is rounding up citizens and having his boys take away gun-rights and giving illegals the vote and rapidly changing america into a police state and you want to defend him?
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Oh, no resentment there, huh? If you were Pinnochio, your nose would be cross-country by now.
I may be nuts sir, but you are a whack job.If Klinton had even tried to do the things that Bush is doing, you and your buddies would have conniption fits. You can't give one example of Sodamn killing American citizens? All you can do is repeat that "he is dangerous".
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Did no Americans die in the Gulf War? Are soldiers not American citizens? How about the money he has given to terrorist organizations that are active in Israel? Have no American citizens died in their attacks? Or are facts too difficult for you to wrap your brain around?
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 7:20:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2002 7:20:40 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
Let me explain it for you all... [size=4]1) We were attacked by Arabs on 9/11. 2) Iraq is a bunch of Arabs. 3) It sure will feel good to kill a bunch of Arabs.[/size=4]
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 7:43:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2002 7:45:45 AM EDT by libertyof76]
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Let me explain it for you all... [size=4]1) We were attacked by Arabs on 9/11. 2) Iraq is a bunch of Arabs. 3) It sure will feel good to kill a bunch of Arabs.[/size=4]
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Okay Mr. Liberal: Use emotion rather than fact. I suppose you support gun control then: 1. The Sniper had an AR-15. 2. All AR-15's are bad and should be outlawed. 3. Gun owners are bad and should be jailed because it will feel good to do so. -- As for Rik- he insinuates that agreeing with liberals is bad. Yet he agrees with two of the biggest liberals ever: Woodrow Wilson and FDR. Wilson is the one who supersized the American Empire, and FDR did as well. Wilson wanted America to remake the World in its image, but of course doing so violates basic liberties. You see, Rik is a statist: he loves government and its power, so long as Republican Neo-conservatives are in power. He forgets that war is the health of the state. He forgets that government as messes things up, and fails to do what it set out to do. It does this in both domestic and foreign activities. But he doesn't care, he WANT power, not liberty. Only Austrian libertarians want true liberty.
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 7:49:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2002 8:09:26 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
Lighten up (my dear friend, Libby). Your leap to gun control is what I would expect from you. No correlation, no logic. I'm just explaining how such an attack is so easy to justify to the American People. I'll continue.... [size=4]continued.. 4) Destroy the most powerful Arab State in the region. 5) Destroy the Arab State that sits between two Arab States that sponsor Terror. 6) Demonstrate power, and willingness to act. 7) Demonstrate the EASE of toppling Arab States. [/size=4]
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 8:02:39 AM EDT
Baseless conspiracybla-bla--I give you Mr. Bean Not conspiracy-fact. I give you warantless searches and super-snooping- fact. Rational argument--if you came out and said Sodam was funding the 9/11 attack and two of his peeps were on planes that day, then we would go and roast marshmallows in Iraq. You can't. You only "believe" in the church of the gop and that ain't rational.No resentment, According to the dictionary, you may be right on the resentment, and that is bad how? You want me to be his butt-boy and love-slave? Gulf War---oh you really don't want to go there. An undeclared war on a foreign power that had not attacked us. Imperialism at its best. And then terrorists attacks in Israel, is that it? Don't bring a .32 to this gunfight. You want to talk terrorist attacks in Israel, why don't you talk about funding from Jordan-number 4 on the foreign aid list- or Saudi Arabia--number one in terms of money spent in their country by the US. You are quickly falling down a hole. You want to talk foreign policy, then you better read up before you come here. And I think someone else took a swing at you and scored, so just call me an anti-statist.
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 8:03:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 8:08:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hound: Gulf War---oh you really don't want to go there. An undeclared war on a foreign power that had not attacked us. Imperialism at its best.
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Imperialism? [b]Imperialism= The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations. [/b] We liberated Kuwait from Iraq, then we left. There was no occupation of Iraq. How was that "Imperialism at its best".
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 12:06:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hound: Baseless conspiracybla-bla--I give you Mr. Bean Not conspiracy-fact. I give you warantless searches and super-snooping- fact.
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Pardon, but what does ANY of that have to do with Iraq?
Rational argument--if you came out and said Sodam was funding the 9/11 attack and two of his peeps were on planes that day, then we would go and roast marshmallows in Iraq. You can't. You only "believe" in the church of the gop and that ain't rational.
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So if the hijackers weren't Iraqi nationals then he couldn't possibly have been funding terrorism? You really should have paid more attention in Logic 101.
No resentment, According to the dictionary, you may be right on the resentment, and that is bad how?
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So, there is no resentment but I might be right on resentment? Wow, that's clear.
You want me to be his butt-boy and love-slave?
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No, in fact I would rather NOT have that mental image if you don't mind.
Gulf War---oh you really don't want to go there. An undeclared war on a foreign power that had not attacked us. Imperialism at its best.
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While you're re-taking that Logic course, perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word "imperialism." Tell me, did we get ONE DROP of Iraqi oil from the Gulf War? Did we get ONE CENT of Iraqi money from the Gulf War? Did we get ONE INCH of Iraqi territory from the Gulf War? I won't hold my breath waiting for you to give a direct answer.
You are quickly falling down a hole. You want to talk foreign policy, then you better read up before you come here. And I think someone else took a swing at you and scored, so just call me an anti-statist.
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I can't say what I call you, because I respect the request made by raf. But it ain't that.
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 2:07:04 PM EDT
<<>> I need to go back to Germany I guess. I just left three years of their socialist hell and I come back to America where everyone is ready to go to war and give up their personal freedoms at the same time.( Nevermind - blindly believe everything the news media feeds you - you'll be sorry someday.) Not really go to war - because many who want to fight Iraq without concrete proof are sitting behind a desk. Easy to talk about sacrifice when one is not doing the sacrifice. I'm still trying to find why every war is okay if Bush gives it the green light - when the same activities were hideous under Klinton. Again Bosnia and Kosovo were a waste of YOUR money - I've lived there and seen thousands of $$ thrown away like it was nothing. I have friends who may be on their way to a war in Iraq right now - but somebody had better come up with a good goddamn reason for war before people I know die. It may be strategic for the US to have a base in Iraq - a great idea if you believe the American government should exert its influence everywhere and anywhere. "Foreign policy" isn't a good enough excuse for war - I could care less what internationalist minded Powell, Bush, or whomever think. They may be our elected representatives but they are still globalists. Given the socialist record of Bush Sr. I have no comfort in the current President. I felt safer with Klinton in some respects only knowing that he was more clumsy and open in stealing our freedoms. Anyone who puts blind faith in our current administration is sorry to say the least. I'm trying to think of a really good politician from my lifetime - can't say I know of any whoever made it into the circle of power. The sick irony of this century will be if or when the Republicans gladly destroy the rest of our freedoms alongside the Democrats. They're no different - and again if Iraq wasn't a stupid little game it would have been settled YEARS ago.
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