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Posted: 12/4/2002 4:43:05 PM EDT
Are we going anyway? I think we've painted ourselves into a corner where we're going to have to go into Iraq, WMD or no WMD. I don't know that I object to that...I'm just thinking that a better thing to do would be for W to say, "Fuck the UN, fuck the French, fuck everybody, we're gonna get this asshole no matter what." Then, do it. OR not. I think the current situation encourages the UN, and the rest of the world, to think that they can affect our course of action by disapproving of it. YMMV...just a few random thoughts. QS
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 4:49:01 PM EDT
I think he's going about it the right way. It's all just a big political game. We came to an agreement that we wouldn't attack if the inspectors have unfettered access to every site in Iraq with no bullshit. That is something that we all know Iraq won't comply with. It'll be a week or two and they'll start crawfishing for some reason or another. [b]Then[/b] GW can say that's it. You broke the rules and now the game is over. That is when you tell everyone to fuck off and die because we are going to remedy the situation our way. That way, it shows that we were reasonable at first and tried to work a deal but the other side reneged. Not that it matters much, since the rest of the world hates us anyway and regardless what we do they are going to bitch.
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 4:49:15 PM EDT
I see the same thing happening as the last time weapons inspectors were there last time. We come in find evidence of things having been relocated...... It's like I'm in a time warp. We are just waiting on Saddam to do soething stupid the we'll be on his butt like white on rice. I just pray we do it right this time.
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 5:08:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2002 5:13:16 PM EDT by mojo]
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 5:15:22 PM EDT
If they can't find it, they're not looking hard enough. And yes, it's about time we tell ANYONE not with us to f**k off, now and in the future. We need to do it now and make our determination known to everyone. When we hit Phase III of this conflict (Iran?) they should already know what our response will be. After all, GW said a long time ago that this would be a "multi-phased" war.
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 5:23:07 PM EDT
doesn't matter what the inspectors find or don't. we're going to war. bush has already made up his mind. the UN really IS irrelevant.
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 5:29:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2002 5:34:09 PM EDT by Dugster]
They are not going to find anything, there probably is nothing to find. Today they found "mustard gas"! Ya a couple of shells from the iran/iraq war, big threat to the western world. I don't know how, but GWB intends to go to war. I have no idea how he is going to justify his war to the American people and to the world if these inspections come up empty. This whole thing is starting to resemble some kind of dark comedy.
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 5:30:42 PM EDT
I doubt that Bush would have agreed to the UN resolution unless he was pretty damn sure that those weapons would be found.
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 5:32:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2002 5:35:22 PM EDT by edpmedic]
So what happens if they really don't find anything and he gives them a letter Sunday with all his Weapons on it? What happens when we have no out right reason to attack. Are we going to finally say Screw all of you we want the oil. Since that's what it is about say the truth. Do you think Bush really cares if he has WMD? That will be used in the middle east on his own people and his neighbors? Hell no it's all for the oil. Sure there is a chance Sad-Man will try to sneak a bomb or two into the US. Why should he be different than another country that hates us. I don't see Bush going into Korea and they told him to go F-Himself. We ain't letting any one in to search or check our Nukes. Why isn't Bush going after them....NO OIL NO OIL NO OIL...I want him to take Sad-Man out, I want him to say We own the oil and now we could lower prices....Non of this will happen. We will have Men & Women die and come home with all sorts of syndromes. Then the Government will say no it didn't happen there. Also if you think it is going to improve the security or the economy think again. All this BS about going to wipe out Sad-Man. It's easy if your not the one going or have to watch your children go.
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 5:42:12 PM EDT
Sad-Ham has had over 4 [b]years[/b] to hide his stuff. There's got to be stuff buried all over the place, under schools, barns and dunes in the middle of nowhere. I don't believe the UN inspectors will find anything. They will search and search all the while poseing for the world's cameras spouting how glorifying the UN is. At some point the Inspectors' resolve will wain and they'll declre that Iraq is "clean" - at which point we're all supposed to hold hands and sing Coom-by-ya (sp?). I will be very surprised if they find anything. If they do, my bet is that it will be merely smokescreen items designed to let the UN have their "find" to make the world happy. These damn inspections should have been done years ago when Klinton was in office. Too bad he was busy getting blow jobs instead of doing his job.
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 5:49:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By edpmedic: So what happens if they really don't find anything and he gives them a letter Sunday with all his Weapons on it? What happens when we have no out right reason to attack. Are we going to finally say Screw all of you we want the oil. Since that's what it is about say the truth. Do you think Bush really cares if he has WMD? That will be used in the middle east on his own people and his neighbors? Hell no it's all for the oil. Sure there is a chance Sad-Man will try to sneak a bomb or two into the US. Why should he be different than another country that hates us. I don't see Bush going into Korea and they told him to go F-Himself. We ain't letting any one in to search or check our Nukes. Why isn't Bush going after them....NO OIL NO OIL NO OIL...I want him to take Sad-Man out, I want him to say We own the oil and now we could lower prices....Non of this will happen. We will have Men & Women die and come home with all sorts of syndromes. Then the Government will say no it didn't happen there. Also if you think it is going to improve the security or the economy think again. All this BS about going to wipe out Sad-Man. It's easy if your not the one going or have to watch your children go.
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You've captured a little of what I'm thinking. As one who might be at the 'sharp end' it's more than just an academic exercise. I don't mean to suggest excessive concern for my own ass...not at all. Just that given my druthers (which I WON'T be) I'd like to see my ass shot off for something I'm 100% behind. Like Afghanistan, for instance. QS
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 5:51:43 PM EDT
GWB seems to know something we don't. He has the goods on these jokers and he will send in the troops when he is ready. I just hope we fight the good fight when the time comes. I think this war will start as a special report with wall-to-wall coverage and neat graphics on the news channels. I also think this is a was that has the potential to come close to home.Brace yourselves for every muslim nut job to do his part to aid Saddam. When the war starts over there, I for one, am going into DEFCON4 in my personal life. BOB and SHTF gear in tow at all times...[(:)] Better safe than sorry. I also think we will smoke'em good in short order, but there might be some real heat everywhere for a while.[:(!] Does anyone have a good source for tin-foil -hat repair parts?[whacko]
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 5:53:19 PM EDT
I think we're well on our way to war. Bush has already made up his mind and I find it difficult to believe he would keep up his war footing and Saddam bashing in the press without first having credible and substantial proof that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction. They are merely waiting for Saddam to seal his fate by submitting his declaration on Sunday in which he falsely states he has no weapons of mass destruction. That's when the US will provide its proof to the UN and war will ensue. Its just my far fetched opinion based on the fact that, since the 91 Gulf war, we have newer and more sensitive spy satellite technology, we have human intelligence on the ground in Iraq (Mossad), and other such factors, the US knows exactly where Saddam has his weapons of mass destruction (assuming he has any).
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 6:10:35 PM EDT
Any of you warmongers there going to enlist and come with us when we go? I can envision a lot of different kinds of hell, and one of them involves spending long days buttoned up, in my chem gear, in my tank, in the sand. Chemical warfare was supposed to have gone out with the Flappers and Model-T Fords. I'll glady get shot at, bombed, nuked, rocketed and mined, but Chem/Bio is for the birds. If we have to, send the guys in who like to eat "things that would make a billey-goat puke" and kill people with knives and their bare hands. I hope we dont go into Iraq. I hope the tabloids are right and Saddam is dying. I hope he dies soon, and painfully, on his own, without anyone helping him. I'd like nothing more than to not have to die like an extra in Lawerance of Arabia. Tell me the entire PLA is coming across the Straits of Formosa and I've got to go sit on a wharf with a .22 to defend against them. Tell me the Soviets were just joking about the whole Berlin Wall thing and six motorized rifle divisions have just started into western Europe through the Fulda Gap with armor support. Tell me all of North Korea has decided to take a winter vacation in Seoul and has brought their SKSs with them. My only two most ardent wishes, so long as I carry that little green card in my wallet and wear this metal around my neck, is that I never have to fight a 'buttoned up' war in the desert, and that I never, ever, F*ing ever have to fight in Africa where 90% of all casualties will be from hemoragic fevors and chronic wasting diseases.... Call me a coward if you want, but I just dont treasure the idea of puking my guts out through my eyes, ears, nose, and mouth.
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 6:18:13 PM EDT
Have some of you guys been paying attention for the last year or so? War with Iraq ain't about oil friends. It's a side move at the Islamo-fascists. We need to conquer and convert them; ALL of them. They certainly hate us (for whatever reasons) and won't be stopped or pacified with baubles or platitudes. They want our heads to convert to Islam or our asses on slabs; there is no in between. They envision the world as an Islamo-fascist ruled one where the imams and clerics are in charge and every good Muslim bows down to the brave "freedom fighters" that saved them from the infidels. It's a power grab, plain and simple. They figure the U.S. has grown soft and weak, and is too P.C. and corrupt to follow through with any real measures that would ensure its interests safety. They may be right on that front (but I hope not). I, for one, see the whole thing as almost inevitable; provided some huge shift, on either side, does not occur. The world's muslim population is HUGE. And every indication is that it is the norm rather than the exeption for your average muslim to sympathize with the Palis, Al-Qaeda, and Hamas and the like and to stand in opposition to U.S., British, and Israeli interests. They adhere to primitive, third-world notions of the world (not to mention the unreformed, primitive nature of their "religion") and the only thing they will ultimately understand is raw military might (i.e. kicking their dicks into the dirt and greasing the treads of our tanks with their guts--to paraphrase Gen. Patton). You see how passive the Japanese Imperialist zealots are since WWII. Not to mention the Krauts and the Italians. Nary a peep out of any of them for 60 years. That's what needs to be done here. Show the world that the U.S. (a Christian U.S.) will not tolerate their bullshit. The more things change, the more they remain the same. Depose a few shitbird Islamo-fascist regimes, exterminate several hundred (thousand?) terrorist slugs, and get on with the program. That is the ticket. It needs to happen or this thing will not end (at least the way we need it to in order to survive with our way of life intact).
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 6:46:14 PM EDT
I seriously doubt they will find anything. Not because there is nothing there - rather because the UN doesn't WANT to find anything. Bix is just another hand wringing diplomat jerk like the hundreds of others that infest the UN. I have no doubt Soddom HAS WMD and will use them. I suspect the spooks have very good evidence supporting that opinion. What remains to be seen is if they will admit it and provide the proof. It will be interesting to see what Bush uses as the trigger to finish what his daddy didn't! So what if it IS about oil? I can't think of a much better reason. Our economy runs on oil. Our standard of living is possible because of oil. CHEAP oil makes things all the better. It is mandatory that all efforts be made to protect our sources of oil supply and drive the price as low as possible.
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 7:00:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By edpmedic: [b]It's easy if your not the one going or have to watch your children go.[/b]
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Amen pal
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 7:11:29 PM EDT
A timetable is already set for the war. If you can call it a war. About two week training mission. Our weapons are ten times better than the Gulf-War. Bush Jr. will make up for his dad's srew-up. And it's time we show the middle East not to _uck with USA anymore. So who cares if the inspectors find anything. Iraq is shooting at our planes everyday. That's enough evidence.
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 8:57:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RebelGray: Tell me all of North Korea has decided to take a winter vacation in Seoul and has brought their SKSs with them
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This one is funny. If you go to Seoul to defend the South Koreans, you'd better bring your own food because they won't serve you. It's time we left South Korea. Move all those troops and supplies to Taiwan. No more troops in S Korea, Saudi Arabia or anywhere in Europe; they are needed at our southern border.
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 10:42:01 PM EDT
I know a little Korean and I like Kimche (or however you spell it) but I'm alergic to pork so it'd probably do me in. You're damned right though. Time to bring 'em home.
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 4:42:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2002 4:46:16 AM EDT by QuietShootr]
Originally Posted By RebelGray: Any of you warmongers there going to enlist and come with us when we go?
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I did. August 19, 2002.
I can envision a lot of different kinds of hell, and one of them involves spending long days buttoned up, in my chem gear, in my tank, in the sand.
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Tank? Tank?!?! All I'm going to have between me and the sand are my MK1 LPC*s! [:D]
Chemical warfare was supposed to have gone out with the Flappers and Model-T Fords. I'll glady get shot at, bombed, nuked, rocketed and mined, but Chem/Bio is for the birds. If we have to, send the guys in who like to eat "things that would make a billey-goat puke" and kill people with knives and their bare hands. I hope we dont go into Iraq. I hope the tabloids are right and Saddam is dying. I hope he dies soon, and painfully, on his own, without anyone helping him. I'd like nothing more than to not have to die like an extra in Lawerance of Arabia. Tell me the entire PLA is coming across the Straits of Formosa and I've got to go sit on a wharf with a .22 to defend against them. Tell me the Soviets were just joking about the whole Berlin Wall thing and six motorized rifle divisions have just started into western Europe through the Fulda Gap with armor support. Tell me all of North Korea has decided to take a winter vacation in Seoul and has brought their SKSs with them. My only two most ardent wishes, so long as I carry that little green card in my wallet and wear this metal around my neck, is that I never have to fight a 'buttoned up' war in the desert, and that I never, ever, F*ing ever have to fight in Africa where 90% of all casualties will be from hemoragic fevors and chronic wasting diseases.... Call me a coward if you want, but I just dont treasure the idea of puking my guts out through my eyes, ears, nose, and mouth.
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Amen, brother. (*LPC=Leather Personnel Carrier) (edited to add: I can think of one thing worse. Getting called up to stand around and check IDs at Ft.Bumfuck, GA for three months, get sent to NTC, have the whole unit get NO-GOd and then get stood down after a year of shitty food, dull needles, no sleep and no pussy, and not even get to KILL someone as compensation. That, IMHO, would be worse.)
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 4:59:26 AM EDT
The conflict in Iraq is about oil, pure and simple. This is not a religeous war, Iraq is the only state in the Middle East whose government does not base it's authority on Islam. Maybe this is the first stage in a greater plan to take out some of the more radical Middle Eastern countries, like Saudi Arabia, or simply a move to strengthen our position when the inevitable fall of the House of Saud occurs. I hope Bush knows what he's doing.
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 5:13:21 AM EDT
Magnum_99, I agree wholeheartedly with you. As for you guys suggesting that the "warmongers" haven't had their asses on the line before, that may be true in some cases. However, many of us have served our country before. I spent three years in Central America during the 80's in an Airborne Infantry (hoo-wah!) unit, just waiting for Ronnie to get fed up with a place called Nicaragua. Yeah my asshole was tight for quite a while. I was fortunate enough to never have been shot at, but the risk was real at that time. Now is YOUR time, and I know that just like myself years ago, you guys have the inner steel to face the crucible like true American fighting men (and women), any misgivings aside. Besides, who wants a 37 year old "has been" (not "wannabe"), broke dick MoFo who is too sore in the morning!!! Good luck folks, you'll need it, but in the end you'll come out on top.
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 5:50:55 AM EDT
I dunno...I'm a 31 year old 'has-been-and-now-is-again"...
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 9:34:18 AM EDT
What if the inspectors don't find anything? Read the publicly available CIA reports. You'll see: *Iraq has rebuilt its chemical weapon capabilities *it has a greater biological weapon production capability now than it did in 1991 *it has developed a solid fueled missile production capability * it has developed two new ballistic missiles *it has probably kept several SCUDs along with the bio/chemical warheads for them All these are a violation of the Gulf War's ceasefire terms. There is no binding ceasefire between Iraq, the UN, or the US. ALL of this is publicly known and accepted in the "security and defense studies" world. Iraq will not be able to get away with it. Bush is committed to getting rid of Iraq, and won't let any nonsense from inspectors stop him. He also knows how his father let Saddam off the hook in 1991, and how Saddam expressed his gratitude.
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 9:56:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dugster: They are not going to find anything, there probably is nothing to find. Today they found "mustard gas"! Ya a couple of shells from the iran/iraq war, big threat to the western world. I don't know how, but GWB intends to go to war. I have no idea how he is going to justify his war to the American people and to the world if these inspections come up empty. This whole thing is starting to resemble some kind of dark comedy.
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Dugster, I'm glad your in Canada. As such your opinion is worthless. Have an nice day. ww
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 10:04:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By edpmedic: So what happens if they really don't find anything and he gives them a letter Sunday with all his Weapons on it? What happens when we have no out right reason to attack. Are we going to finally say Screw all of you we want the oil. Since that's what it is about say the truth. Do you think Bush really cares if he has WMD? That will be used in the middle east on his own people and his neighbors? Hell no it's all for the oil. Sure there is a chance Sad-Man will try to sneak a bomb or two into the US. Why should he be different than another country that hates us. I don't see Bush going into Korea and they told him to go F-Himself. We ain't letting any one in to search or check our Nukes. Why isn't Bush going after them....NO OIL NO OIL NO OIL...I want him to take Sad-Man out, I want him to say We own the oil and now we could lower prices....Non of this will happen. We will have Men & Women die and come home with all sorts of syndromes. Then the Government will say no it didn't happen there. Also if you think it is going to improve the security or the economy think again. All this BS about going to wipe out Sad-Man. It's easy if your not the one going or have to watch your children go.
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Brother, If it's all about Oil why aren't we in Venezuela (sp?)? Do you know what's going on their??? It's #5 in the world and ever so much closer. It's about getting rid of 1 crazy scumbag, is all. ww
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 10:07:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2002 10:09:04 AM EDT by deadeye47]
After "telegraphing" our intentions for a year now (giving the morons time to hide literally anything) do you really think they will find anything.....get real....
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