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Posted: 12/3/2002 10:21:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2002 10:49:17 AM EDT by SPECTRE]
[url]http://www.azstarnet.com/border/br-12022002militia.html[/url] Things are really going to heat up on this issue. Also vote in the poll with the article. **edited to fix title**
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 10:28:04 AM EDT
Woha! BIG MISTAKE! Stay on private property intill you are much bigger. They aren't even a state wide organization yet. This is a very BAD decision. What is the hurry? But the poll numbers 93% in favor are heartening. But being in favor and coming out there yourself are two different things.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 10:31:32 AM EDT
I voted. 93% in favor 6% against I guess they round up cause theres a missing 1%.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 10:37:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2002 10:37:53 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
"We're stepping onto public lands, and I dare the government to come and arrest 50 people," said Chris Simcox, owner of the Tombstone Tumbleweed, a weekly newspaper, and organizer of a citizens militia he now calls the Civil Homeland Defense. Civilian Homeland Defense members will wear no uniform and carry only defensive sidearms during operations, said Simcox, who now claims he and some members of his organization have been conducting patrol operations in Cochise County for nearly a year. "We do not allow rifles, and no one is allowed to wear (camouflage)," he said. "We do not pretend to be Border Patrol or military in any way. We've always dressed as average citizens." The goal of the organization is to deter terrorists, criminals, drug dealers and illegal entrants, he said. Its initial strategy will be to conduct patrols in areas where humanitarian water stations and beacons have been established to aid illegal entrants. The group will be "humanely assisting those who are attracted to them by way of making sure they have water and blankets and any immediate medical attention they may need," he said. They will then be placed under citizen's arrest and turned over to the Border Patrol.
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"In my judgment, vigilantes have no place on lands that belong to all the people. There's a huge difference between humanitarian life-saving efforts and vigilantes' running around with guns hunting human beings and putting all sorts of peoples' lives in danger . . . it is a dangerous and gross violation of human rights, " said Fife, a pastor at Southside Presbyterian Church and spokesman for Tucson-based Samaritan Patrol. A spokesman for Derechos Humanos, a Tucson-based human rights group, agreed. "When you organize a group of people to carry guns and patrol the border, it's a militia; it seems like they're trying to disguise that. We're talking about violating peoples' human rights, people taking the law into their own hands," said Jose Matus, executive director of Derechos Humanos.
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[V] DAMN! Clinton and the media sured did a HELL of a job stereotyping "militias" as wreckless, itchy trigger-finger whackjobs back in OKC. [pissed]
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 10:39:54 AM EDT
I'm in favor 93% I'm against it 6% 9272 votes ARH
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 10:41:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: Woha! BIG MISTAKE! Stay on private property intill you are much bigger. They aren't even a state wide organization yet. This is a very BAD decision. What is the hurry? But the poll numbers 93% in favor are heartening. But being in favor and coming out there yourself are two different things.
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I really can't see where they would be breaking the law though. Assuming that then don't pull their weapons, unless threatened. If they are on public land, with legally concealed handguns, calling the INS on illegal aliens breaking the law......what can anyone really do about it?
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 10:48:25 AM EDT
I think we should remind those in charge about how poorly Americans are routinely treated by the Mexican police! (make that alleged police) How come that little topic never comes up?
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 10:50:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2002 10:52:03 AM EDT by Johninaustin]
Mac, the militia's are the only ones to blame for their image. Remember all the parading around in camo? Inviting news media to watch their "Training"? (Which always involved shooting something)Remember the condoning of all the fruitcake theorists? All the Horsecrap posts of UN vehicles invading Utah to set up re-education camps? All the self-appointed militia "Commanders" interviewing on TV? I could go on forever. Reference Alex Jones for the most obvious proof of this. Clinton and the media sure were grateful for all the free material, and they made maximum use of it. This bunch just looks like more of the same.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 11:19:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2002 11:19:38 AM EDT by cc48510]
"In my judgment, vigilantes have no place on lands that belong to all the people. There's a huge difference between humanitarian life-saving efforts and vigilantes' running around with guns hunting human beings and putting all sorts of peoples' lives in danger . . . it is a dangerous and gross violation of human rights, " [red]said Fife,[/red] a pastor at Southside Presbyterian Church and spokesman for Tucson-based Samaritan Patrol.
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Anyone else notice this bozo's name ???
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 11:25:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: Woha! BIG MISTAKE! Stay on private property intill you are much bigger. They aren't even a state wide organization yet. This is a very BAD decision. What is the hurry? But the poll numbers 93% in favor are heartening. But being in favor and coming out there yourself are two different things.
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I really can't see where they would be breaking the law though. Assuming that then don't pull their weapons, unless threatened. If they are on public land, with legally concealed handguns, calling the INS on illegal aliens breaking the law......what can anyone really do about it?
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Their MO hasn't been to simply spot for the INS. Usually they detain them, then call. So far its been on private property. Try that on public property and they will probably be arrested for false imprisonment. And I wonder if they INS will come when they call anymore? Or if they have been ordered to not cooperate.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 11:29:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: Usually they detain them, then call. So far its been on private property. Try that on public property and they will probably be arrested for false imprisonment.
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Yeah, but is it illegal to make a citizens arrest on a criminal in AZ? Regardless of their nationality they are breaking the law and a citizens arrest seems reasonable as long as these guys aren't running around pointing guns at everyone that they see in the desert. As long as the weapons stay holstered, I think it would be hard to charge them with anything.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 11:29:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2002 11:31:29 AM EDT by 1_153_370_371_407]
Originally Posted By Johninaustin: Mac, the militia's are the only ones to blame for their image. Remember all the parading around in camo? Inviting news media to watch their "Training"? (Which always involved shooting something)Remember the condoning of all the fruitcake theorists? All the Horsecrap posts of UN vehicles invading Utah to set up re-education camps? All the self-appointed militia "Commanders" interviewing on TV? I could go on forever. Reference Alex Jones for the most obvious proof of this. Clinton and the media sure were grateful for all the free material, and they made maximum use of it. This bunch just looks like more of the same.
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cop to non-super-citizen translation: "you damn militia nutjobs would do well to leave the law enforcement to us pros" It looks like none of the law enforcement superheros are up to the task of enforcing our immigration laws, so these guys are volunteering to do it. Do you have a better plan? [img]home.wi.rr.com/antigov/dunkin1.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 11:46:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2002 11:46:56 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By 1_153_370_371_407: cop to non-super-citizen translation: "you damn militia nutjobs would do well to leave the law enforcement to us pros" It looks like none of the law enforcement superheros are up to the task of enforcing our immigration laws, so these guys are volunteering to do it. Do you have a better plan?
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Don't bother me - I'm busy. [img]http://www.chicagobutts.com/fat_cop.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 11:48:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 12:05:39 PM EDT
I wouldn't blame all militias for the stereotype that has been given to them. But I will say that crackheads like "Mark from Michigan" certainly turned the public away from supporting militia with unproved conspiracy theories. The initial idea behind the militias was a last ditch resort to preserving the 2nd Amendment or reacting to a national/local crisis. Had all militias stuck to that platform and stayed low profile I don't think there would be so much clout surrounding them. I agree that video clips of militia members low crawling in cammies didn't help out much. Their only success was on the grassroots level - going live on Channel ( fill in the blank) only backfired in the long run. I think the border situation could be properly handled by a citizen militia - especially given the fact that the feds don't want to do their job. I'm not blaming local LEO or the border patrol - it seems their hands are tied on dealing with the problem. Until the Feds ( meaning the real decision makers) properly handle this problem or the citizens find a way to take it upon themselves ( without getting arrested for doing the right thing), it looks like the problems on the border will only get worse.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 12:08:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By 1_153_370_371_407: cop to non-super-citizen translation: "you damn militia nutjobs would do well to leave the law enforcement to us pros" It looks like none of the law enforcement superheros are up to the task of enforcing our immigration laws, so these guys are volunteering to do it. Do you have a better plan?
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Don't bother me - I'm busy. [url]http://www.chicagobutts.com/fat_cop.jpg[/url]
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i'll have to keep that picture for future threads
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 12:37:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2002 1:11:00 PM EDT by mattja]
"Not as busy as we are." [url]www.full-auto.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000397[/url] The moderators must be slow today.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 12:51:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2002 12:52:39 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
HOLY SHIT!!! I SEE NIPPLES!!! [b]LOTS O'NIPPLES!!![/b] [:O] WTF you doin' [b]mattja[/b]????? [shock]
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 12:54:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2002 12:54:50 PM EDT by cafordguy]
I'll bet money those pics get removed soon....[}:D]
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 12:57:57 PM EDT
Okay, okay, I'll link them, but I know I'll still get abused.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 1:01:40 PM EDT
Which one is you? [:)]
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 1:04:57 PM EDT
"When you organize a group of people to carry guns and patrol the border, it's a militia..."
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Wait a minute, I thought the National Guard was the militia?!?!? [BD]
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 1:05:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: Which one is you? [:)]
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I'm the one on the right.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 1:33:08 PM EDT
Don't expect the Feds to do anything unless it gets to the point of a revolution. The Feds want immigration and they don't care from where it comes. We need immigration to make up for decreases in birth rates. That is the ONLY way the Ponzi scheme that is Social Security can remain viable.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 1:33:20 PM EDT
IBTL!! Personally, I think any publicity for a militia is bad, bad, bad. Nothing good can come of it. If you and yours are in a militia, know someone who is, or are just thinking of joining/starting one, the best advice is play Clark Kent and don't let anyone know. No damage control will ever be needed and you won't be portrayed like a village idiot with evil assault rifles.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 2:17:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 2:29:17 PM EDT
I just love how the response from "officials" in these cases is to make threats of arrest against the citizens trying to enforce laws the .Gov either can't or won't enforce... Can you say "SCREW YOU JACKASSES!"???
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 2:32:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mattja: Don't expect the Feds to do anything unless it gets to the point of a revolution. The Feds want immigration and they don't care from where it comes. We need immigration to make up for decreases in birth rates. That is the ONLY way the Ponzi scheme that is Social Security can remain viable.
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Small problem: Illegals don't pay taxes... Anyhow, I'd just like to see the Feds do something more effective... Like put troops on the border, with appropriate fortifications (i.e. wire & mines)...
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 2:36:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_A: Anyhow, I'd just like to see the Feds do something more effective... Like put troops on the border, with appropriate fortifications (i.e. wire & mines)...
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Do you know how quick the [b]Mexican gov't[/b] would [i]scream[/i] like a raped ape if that happened?
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 2:44:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By mattja: Don't expect the Feds to do anything unless it gets to the point of a revolution. The Feds want immigration and they don't care from where it comes. We need immigration to make up for decreases in birth rates. That is the ONLY way the Ponzi scheme that is Social Security can remain viable.
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Small problem: Illegals don't pay taxes...
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I knew a couple of illegals at my last job who had social security cards and paid taxes, including social security. In any case, it's no problem. Reagan gave the illegals amnesty in the 1980's and it appears Bush now has the same thing in mind.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 2:51:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_A: Small problem: Illegals don't pay taxes...
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They might not pay income taxes, but they pay every other kind of tax. Every time they spend money it's taxed twice, once as sales tax then as income tax on the receiving party. In any case, the govt is still getting a cut.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 3:04:13 PM EDT
I don't have a problem with them patrolling public land. The gov. isn't addressing the problem. More power to em.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 3:08:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mattja:
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: Which one is you? [:)]
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I'm the one on the right.
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you've got nice tits
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 3:19:39 PM EDT
The government always has the resources to make an example of people who are sick to death of the lawlessness surrounding them, while continuing to fail at their constitutionally mandated jobs. I like the writer's email address btw. [:D] [b]Ignacio Ibarra at nacho1@mindspring.com[/b]
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 3:28:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 3:44:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GovtThug:
"When you organize a group of people to carry guns and patrol the border, it's a militia..."
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Wait a minute, I thought the National Guard was the militia?!?!? [BD]
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So, by his reasoning, the Border Patrol is a militia! And about the NG...If our (federal) government can tell you where to go and perform law enforcement, you are not militia. Our local police IS militia, as they are not controlled by the Feds. Clinton TRIED to make them controllable by tying them into Federal gov when the "Clinton Cops" bullshit was ensuing. Actually, did he succeed at it?
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 4:43:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1_153_370_371_407:
Originally Posted By mattja:
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: Which one is you? [:)]
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I'm the one on the right.
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you've got nice tits
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I always thought they were kinda small.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 6:46:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 6:51:51 PM EDT
i never click on links to full-auto.com while i'm at work
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 7:02:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 7:13:53 PM EDT
This issue has come up a lot lately. I have a feeling it is going to become a huge issue in the next few years, especially if another big incident occurs courtesy of the religion of peace.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 7:14:20 PM EDT
By the way. The Winter Crossroads Phoenix Gunshow is this 6,7,and 8. Thats this Fri, Sat, Sun. Good place to gather, rally, discuss, bring signs so people know what you are about. Network, ect.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 7:55:49 PM EDT
CHRIST , ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS MINE THE BORDER AND THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED !!!!!! [USA][USA][USA][USA][USA][USA][USA][USA][USA]­[USA][USA]
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 8:05:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sniper1az: CHRIST , ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS MINE THE BORDER AND THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED !!!!!! [USA][USA][USA][USA][USA][USA][USA][USA][USA]­[USA][USA]
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I get the sentiment, but just ask the IDF or veterans of the East German Border Police as to the effictiveness...not very.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 8:10:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SuperChicken:
Originally Posted By mattja: "Not as busy as we are." [url]www.full-auto.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000397[/url] The moderators must be slow today.
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for god's sake, i was in CLASS when i tried to read this thread. yes, school. 6th period web authoring. i scroll down and theres a bunch of tits on the screen. jerk, i almost got in trouble. i had to do the alt+f4 move and deny everything. [:(!]
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Full-auto.com is not a place for children to play. Let this be a lesson to you.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 8:13:07 PM EDT
They should definitely increase their members to at least a thousand first, then you operate from a position of strength. You then state on public TV: "Due to the fact that the state OR federal government has done nothing to stop the wholesale invasion of illegal aliens across the US-Mexican border. We have formed a border patrol militia. We are not vigalantes and will immediately turn over any illegal aliens over to the US border patrol. We will not tresspass on any private land that we do not have permission to be on. We will not, however, follow any order by any level of government to cease our activities and we will not allow ourselves to be arrested for defending the borders of our state. We will continue to patrol the border until the United States government deploys the United States Army at the borders followed by all necessary reforms of the US Border Patrol to patrol the border effectively."
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 8:17:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kroagnon: They should definitely increase their members to at least a thousand first, then you operate from a position of strength. You then state on public TV: "Due to the fact that the state OR federal government has done nothing to stop the wholesale invasion of illegal aliens across the US-Mexican border. We have formed a border patrol militia. We are not vigalantes and will immediately turn over any illegal aliens over to the US border patrol. We will not tresspass on any private land that we do not have permission to be on. We will not, however, follow any order by any level of government to cease our activities and we will not allow ourselves to be arrested for defending the borders of our state. We will continue to patrol the border until the United States government deploys the United States Army at the borders followed by all necessary reforms of the US Border Patrol to patrol the border effectively."
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Exactly, that is exactly it, you put it together.
Link Posted: 12/3/2002 11:45:51 PM EDT
They offer web authoring in High School now ??? Damn, and I had to learn it (HTML, CSS, and JAVAScript) on my own...A web authoring class mighta been fun. I took Computer Programming though. But, at that time it was mainly focused on BASIC (1st year) and Pascal (2nd Year and AP). I know they switched over to C++ a few years ago. But, I just heard that this year they are now going to make the AP Computer Programming a JAVA based Class. I got plenty of computer classes in College though.
Originally Posted By SuperChicken:
Originally Posted By mattja: "Not as busy as we are." [url]www.full-auto.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000397[/url] The moderators must be slow today.
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for god's sake, i was in CLASS when i tried to read this thread. yes, school. 6th period web authoring. i scroll down and theres a bunch of tits on the screen. jerk, i almost got in trouble. i had to do the alt+f4 move and deny everything. [:(!]
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Link Posted: 12/4/2002 10:53:44 PM EDT
Not effictive? I was thinking of the MOTHER of ALL MINEFIELDS !!! Like dig up all the mines in the Balkins and Southeast Asia and transplant them to the Arizona border with Shithole to the South !!![usa]
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 11:12:48 PM EDT
A Tombstone weekly newspaper publisher recently called for the formation of a citizen militia to combat illegal immigration. What's your opinion? I'm in favor 93% I'm against it 6% 10369 votes [url]http://www.azstarnet.com/border/br-12022002militia.html[/url]
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 8:35:47 AM EDT
......Claymores mines side by side for hundreds of miles........what a beautiful sight to see..... I read about some recent technology with mines that can read heat signatures from humans and/or vehicles - this could be interesting - what better way to test our new military technology? Actually, they should turn the southern border into a new "proving ground" or missile test range - I think that might make it an unhealthy place to be jumping fences.
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