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Posted: 11/28/2002 4:28:27 PM EDT
I've put a PDF file with snap-in targets on them - they are standard USMC Silloughette targets (19.5" wide by 40" tall) at different distances. Just download the sheet, print it out, hang it on a door or wall, get 10 yards away and that's what the targets look like at the different distances. Now, you can practice your positions by dry firing, a great method of practice (as long as you check your weapon to ensure it's unloaded). If using a bolt gun, I'd use an empty shell casing to cussion the firing pin when it falls. People with AR's don't need to worry. The distances are from 150, 250, 300, 600, 1000, 1350 and 3000 yards. Not that you'll be shooting that far, but it's cool to see how small someone would look. The targets represent someone from the torso up. THe link is: [url=http://www.geonavigation.com/pdf/snapintargets.pdf]Snap in Targets at Geonavigation.com[/url] Have fun!
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 5:14:18 PM EDT
Thanks!
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 5:43:55 PM EDT
What Tate said. That's the best kind of info. Helps all of us get better.
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 6:12:36 PM EDT
Is that with the naked eye or through a scope? and what power. At 3200 yrds (2 miles) you see shit with the naked eye.
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 6:22:37 PM EDT
OK, just supposing I were to take these targets to the range.... If I posted one at 50 yards, would it simulate five times the range as it does at 10 yards? I'm thinking it should, but it won't hurt to ask. I just can't remember if the visual angle is proportional to distance or it follows a nonlinear function. CJ
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 6:42:27 PM EDT
Okay... to answer the questions: As far as using a scope, a scope is only magnification. Eight times magnification is eight times, be it a one inch target at 10 yards or a 40 inch target at 1000 yards. THe end effect is still the same. So yes, what you see through a scope at 10 yards will simulate the marked distance. As far as the second question is concerned, vision is logarithmic and changes with distance. A person does not appear two times larger at 100 yards than at 200 yards. Nor does he look twice as small at 400 yards. There is a formula using IOA (Inches of Angle, the same thing as Minute of Angle to us shooters) and while I cannot remember what it is, I can make a 50-yard target for you and post it on my site, if you wish. Or any distance, for that matter. Just tell me what range you want to put your target at and what distance you want it to simulate. If you want to learn more in Inches of Angle, there is a company called Horus Vision (www.horusvision.com) and they sell the best damned scopes on the market - so good, in fact, that I went and became a dealer for them (Using thier scopes in unknown distance matches is like cheating... it's wicked fast to hit a target, too. Read the unfinished review on my web site for more information - www.geonavigation.com - Go to the reviews section). Anyway, the manual that comes with them is so incredible and explains the reticle functions so well, it makes it easy to learn. I think you can even download the manual right from the web site. Anyone who is interested in a scope should check these out. Even if you buy from the manufacturer, there isn't a better scope on the market in it's price range and absolutely no better reticle on the market for any price I know - I have had A Nightforce NSX, Leupold MK4, a few US Optics that were much overrated, and a ton of other scopes).
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 6:52:51 PM EDT
My local range has stations at 50 and 100 yards. I'd like to use this type of target at those ranges to simulate targets up to, well, I guess about 3200 yards, I suppose. Even though such a shot isn't really in the range of possibility with an AR (which is the only rifle type I own except a .22LR), it'd be fun to see how small a target I can hit reliably, and hence, how effective I might be against people assuming I figured the drop right. Not that I expect to really need to know that...! CJ
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 7:59:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By USMCGrunt8541: I've put a PDF file with snap-in targets on them - they are standard USMC Silloughette targets (19.5" wide by 40" tall) at different distances. Just download the sheet, print it out, hang it on a door or wall, get 10 yards away and that's what the targets look like at the different distances. Now, you can practice your positions by dry firing, a great method of practice (as long as you check your weapon to ensure it's unloaded). If using a bolt gun, I'd use an empty shell casing to cussion the firing pin when it falls. People with AR's don't need to worry. The distances are from 150, 250, 300, 600, 1000, 1350 and 3000 yards. Not that you'll be shooting that far, but it's cool to see how small someone would look. The targets represent someone from the torso up. THe link is: [url=http://www.geonavigation.com/pdf/snapintargets.pdf]Snap in Targets at Geonavigation.com[/url] Have fun!
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Thanks
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 9:21:16 PM EDT
Hey Grunt, Where are the barrels at??? Never snaped in on a REAL target in the Suck, but shot plenty of Dogs on a white barrel.......
Link Posted: 11/29/2002 3:10:34 AM EDT
Yeah yeah... I hated that damned barrel. Oh well. Just to let you people know that actually want to shoot at it to see if you can hit a target 600 or 1000 yards away... it doesn't work like that. You see, on that sheet when you move from the 150 yard target to the 600 yard target, the person just gets smaller. In real life, you have to do things, like account for many variables. You've got drop, wind, humidity, temperature... at 100 yards, a bullet will strike 1.5 inches high for every five degrees in temperture rise. That's significant enough to make you miss a target at 600 yards if the temp changes 10 or 20 degrees. Okay... I'll put a link on the front of my site to the different snap in targets, including one for your 50 yard line. Just give me a day, okay? And yes, damned it... I'll even include a Dog target (Target of a man laying in the prone... in the Corps, we shot these out to 300 yards, not full size targets out to 200 or 300 yards like other branches... and we only used the full-sized targets at 500 yards - 1000 or 1200 yards if you were in a STA platoon and had an M40 A2.)
Link Posted: 11/29/2002 9:29:29 AM EDT
Thanks a bunch!!!
Link Posted: 11/29/2002 9:46:30 AM EDT
Thanks, that's pretty helpful to those of us that don't have access to ranges greater than 200 yds. BTW, what's the equation or software you use to determine the height/range of the targets? I'd like to print out some targets for other range distances.
Link Posted: 11/29/2002 10:14:13 AM EDT
Thanks [:)]
Link Posted: 11/29/2002 10:21:35 AM EDT
USMCGrunt8541, If you could make those dog targets simulating 200 and 300 yd at 50 and/or 100 yds actual, that would be really appreciated. You mentioned your website on numerous occasions but you never provided a link to the site....Thanks
Link Posted: 11/29/2002 11:59:21 AM EDT
Oh... sorry. My website is www.geonavigation.com - the ballistics software is located at Horus Vision's web site, www.horusvision.com - so are the manuals that explain MOA and stuff like that. Just download one of the manuals for the scopes and you'll see them there. I CAN design a Dog target to simulate 200 yards, but the problem is it won't fit on a sheet of paper if you use it at 100 yards. I can make one for 50 yards, though. I don't actually use a program for simulation - I have to figure everything out and then use a program called Corel Draw to scale everything. Other than that, it's really easy. First, we need to find how many MOA (Minutes of Angle) the target is. The formula for this is: H/(D/100) Where D is Distance in Yards and H is target height in Inches. Since our target is 40" high and 500 yards away, we get: 40/(500/100) Step 1 - 500/100 = 5 Step 2 - 40/5 = 8 Our target is 8 minutes of angle at 500 yards. NOw, all you have to do is make a target that is 8 minutes of angle at 50 yards. How tall will it be? It will be 4 inches. How do we know that? The actual equasion is (D/100)*M = target size (in inches) D = Distance in yards M = Minute of Angle We know our MOA is 8. Now just do the formula: (50/100)*8 Step 1 - 50/100 = .5 Step 2 - .5 * 8 = 4 inches You can use these formulas for scale any distance. If you want a Dog target (18 inches high overall) to appear the same size at 50 yards, you'll use the formulas: Formula 1 - H/(D/100) Where D is Distance in Yards and H is target height in Inches. 18/(300/100) = 6 Minutes of Angle at 300 yards Formula 2 - (D/100)*M = target size (in inches) (50/100)*6 = 3 Inches tall at 50 yards. Therefore, to simulate an 18" Dog target at 300 yards, you have to make one 3 inches high and put it at 50 yards. Look on the main page for a link to the targets.
Link Posted: 11/29/2002 12:03:15 PM EDT
Dude! You rock! Thanks!
Link Posted: 11/29/2002 12:41:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2002 3:48:16 PM EDT by BigZ]
Let me simplify it. KT=Known target size @ Distance= D1 NT=New target size @ Distance= D2 Equation is simply (KT/D1) = (NT/D2) Simplified Further: NT=KT*D2/D1 40in target at 500yds. What will that target size be at 50yds? KT = 40in D1= 500yds NT = ? D2 = 50yds NT = 40*50/500 = 4in You can solve for any unknown. *** Edited for better clarity.
Link Posted: 11/29/2002 12:53:18 PM EDT
Thanks! You are right... I tend to make things too complex, but I like to show the relashionships. However... you cannot multiply and divide in any order. Multiply, yes... but not divide. 5*4*3 = 60 3*4*5 = 60 BUT 20/10/2 = 1 while 2/10/20 = .01 :)
Link Posted: 11/29/2002 2:00:49 PM EDT
Thanks for the info... my arithmetic sucks but even a mathematically challenged person like myself should have no problem with that. [:D]
Link Posted: 11/29/2002 3:46:31 PM EDT
Yes and no. I didn't say you could move the numbers around the equation. Just the order in which you do them. Your 2 choices are (5*4)/3 = 5*(4/3) I was thinking more like this. Since you must go left to right.
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