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Posted: 11/27/2002 10:32:07 PM EDT
There is an increasingly blunt and direct call for Muslim moderates both here and around the world who up until now have been deafeningly silent, to stand up, confront and overthrow the radical extremists who've hijacked Islam. Two great articles, one by [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/27/opinion/27RUSH.html]Salman Rushdie[/url] and another by [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/27/opinion/27FRIE.html]Thomas Freidman[/url] this week BOTH are a kick in the pants to Muslims to stand up and fight their own radicals in their culture. The one by Thomas Freidman is the harder hitting of the two:
To: Leaders of the Muslim world From: President George W. Bush "Let me be blunt: I am increasingly worried that we are heading toward a civilizational war." . . . "You say all this is happening because we support Israel. I know we need to do more to bring peace, but I don't think that nurse was shot, or that Bali bomb was made "holy," because we support Israel. I think it has to do with the rise within your midst of a deeply intolerant strain of Islam that is not simply a reaction to Israel, but is a response to your failing states, squandered oil wealth, broken ideologies (Nasserism) and generations of autocracy and illiteracy. Armed and angry, this harsh fundamentalism now seems to totally intimidate Muslim moderates. But the values it propagates will bring ruin to you and conflict with us." . . . "The decent, but passive, Muslim center must go to war against this harsh fundamentalism." . . . "Friends, unless you have a war within your civilization, there is going to be a war between our civilizations. We're just one more 9/11 away from that."
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No matter what, it looks like there's going to be a LOT of Muslim blood shed in the next few years - either by their own hands to eradicate their own radical MoslemMaggots - or by our hands.
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 10:37:38 PM EDT
Lets see if they are really listening.
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 10:38:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: Lets see if they are really listening.
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One way or another, war is coming their way.
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 10:44:18 PM EDT
In we want to convince the Muslim moderates to speak up, we're going to have to find them first. Seen any lately?
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 10:49:17 PM EDT
Sadly I only see killers, wannabe killers,...and cowards who just qivver and say "don't harm me I have nothing to do with it", which is probably only because they lack the courage to do ANYTHING at all. Is it living under such despotic regimes that makes these individuals so spineless?
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 10:51:44 PM EDT
Moderates in the path of extremists will always fall silent and back off. It's the nature of things. Extremists by their very definition will do almost anything to make others believe as they do. Moderates will try and let extremists hack out their differences. It's one thing to disagree. It's a completely different thing to let others know you disagree. And heaven help those that let an armed mob mentality know they disagree with them.
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 10:53:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mace: In we want to convince the Muslim moderates to speak up, we're going to have to find them first. Seen any lately?
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The only one I have known is now in jail for murdering his American wife.[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 10:55:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: Is it living under such despotic regimes that makes these individuals so spineless?
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Yes, partly. Like the Russkies living under Communism. They have no history, no "cultural memory" of freedom. Nothing to inspire them, no "Founding Father's" principles to live up to. Their entire history is one of living under what we call "oppression" and what they call "every day life".
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 11:07:02 PM EDT
I would never of considered Russians or any of the former East Block peoples to be spineless. The Hungarians, and Czechs fought back. The Romainians overthrew Chouchescu. Mobs overthrew the East German government once it became clear that the Soviets would not intervene again, the Poles wore down their dictators. Besides the revolutions back in 1917, when hardliners tried to take over the Soviet government again in the 92 coup attempt, mobs persuaded the military to turn against the coup. Are these only the actions of radicals on the OTHER side against a authoritarian goverment?
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 12:04:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 12:46:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 4:21:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 6:49:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 7:01:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 7:11:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: Sadly I only see killers, wannabe killers,...and cowards who just qivver and say "don't harm me I have nothing to do with it", which is probably only because they lack the courage to do ANYTHING at all. Is it living under such despotic regimes that makes these individuals so spineless?
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What about Matrix? He seemed anything but spineless. He posted here fairly often as I recall. He also seemed to be a moderate voice. Perhaps I missed something, but he seemed to be pretty well shouted-down by some others on this forum. I notice that I never seem him here anymore. Again, perhaps I missed something WRT Matrix, but I have the impression that he was treated poorly here. IMO, intolerance of moderates only fuels the fires of fanaticism. Kevin
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 7:18:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: Is it living under such despotic regimes that makes these individuals so spineless?
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Yes, partly. Like the Russkies living under Communism. They have no history, no "cultural memory" of freedom. Nothing to inspire them, no "Founding Father's" principles to live up to. Their entire history is one of living under what we call "oppression" and what they call "every day life".
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Kinda like the future gun owners are gonna feel after the liberal whinners SUCCEED in stripping them of their guns.....
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 7:19:37 AM EDT
The "moderate" Islamists are nothing but slackers who will not stand in the way of those who practice "pure" Islam. These same "moderate" Islamists are the ones who will harbor and hide those who practice Islam the way Muhammed wants it practiced. I say we send them all back to where they came from. They are a LOST cause that will NOT lead to any good, but just the opposite.
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 7:44:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: One way or another, war is coming their way.
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There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! [b]The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.[/b] It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace–but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! Patrick Henry
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