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Posted: 11/26/2002 2:18:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2002 2:20:04 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
What's the point? I know I ain't gonna change any Libertarian's or anyone else's mind about immigration:
[url=http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1126azimmigration-ON.html]2 out of 3 new Ariz. residents are immigrants[/url] Associated Press Nov. 26, 2002 11:05 AM WASHINGTON - An estimated 130,000 immigrants settled in Arizona since 2000, accounting for two-thirds of the state's growth, but the new residents are likely to live in poverty and lack adequate education and health insurance, a new study says. [red]Fifty-eight percent[/red] of Arizona's immigrants and their U.S.-born children live in or near poverty, compared to 28 percent of the state's native population and are nearly [red]four times[/red] as likely not to have a high school diploma. They are [red]two-and-a-half times[/red] as likely to lack health insurance and [red]22 percent[/red] benefit from some sort of government welfare program, compared to 13 percent of native households, according to the analysis of unpublished Census data by the Center for Immigration Studies, a nonprofit group that supports some limits on foreign immigration. . . . [red]Local officials and Arizona's congressional delegation have complained the federal government is not doing enough to help pay for services for immigrants. Arizona's border counties have to absorb $31 million annually in uncompensated emergency medical care,[/red] according to a recent report by the U.S.-Mexico Border Counties Coalition. Another national study by the Urban Institute released Tuesday found that children of immigrants are more likely to live in two-parent families and in poverty than children of parents born in this country. The Center for Immigration Studies report also indicated that the [red]immigrant influx remained steady since 2000, despite a weak economy.[/red] Rex said it takes a surprisingly long time for a recession to register in migration statistics, although he anticipates that immigration to Arizona will slow.
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[b]WTF??? Is there like a shortage of poor, uneducated, welfare recipients in Arizona that we have to KEEP letting MORE of them in?????[/b] They're not here for the jobs... immigration holds steady DESPITE the poor job market here. They come here for the [b]WELFARE!![/b] The ONLY thing I agree with Libertarians on is that we should DRY UP all welfare - then MAYBE the immigrants will stop coming. But even then I doubt it. But until then... [b]CLOSE THE F@CKING BORDER!!![/b] [V]
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 2:26:24 PM EDT
Are these 'grints of the legal or illegal variety?
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 2:32:27 PM EDT
I think these are just the legal ones we INVITE in. I don't think that counts the illegal trespassers. But it doesn't matter. We don't need ANY more poor, uneducated welfare recipients in this state (or this country). [;D]
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 2:32:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2002 2:33:11 PM EDT by Redmanfms]
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: But until then... [b]CLOSE THE F@CKING BORDER!!![/b] [V]
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I'm a quasi-libertatian (actually I'm closer to Reform conservative than anything else) and agree that we don't need anymore immigrants in this nation, but how are we going to stop them? Closing a 3,500 mile border with Mexico is easier said than done. We don't have near enough troops, our border patrol is bordering on completely corrupt/stupidly ineffective, and we could never "mine" the border as some have suggested. The only real solution is to make the U.S. such an inhospitable place for the dregs of humanity that they don't want to come here anymore. We shouldn't want to stop skilled and educated workers from coming here though. "Closing" the border is a whole lot more complex than you seem to think.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 2:35:39 PM EDT
Immigrants come for the welfare. Welfare is propagated by the current Republican administration. Yet you blame Libertarians for the problem? Whatever.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 3:43:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2002 3:45:23 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By markl32: Immigrants come for the welfare. Welfare is propagated by the current Republican administration. Yet you blame Libertarians for the problem? Whatever.
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I never "blamed Libertarians" for the problem. They're too inept to cause these kinds of problems. I only pointed out that they must be happy that Bush wants to grant amnesty to illegal aliens because that's part of the Libertarian Party platform. So do you think there's not enough poor, uneducated people in our country that we should keep our borders open to let even more in? If anything, I THANK the "Young Turk" Republicans who took over Congress in 1994 with their "Contract With America":
On the first day of the 104th Congress, the new Republican majority will immediately pass the following major reforms, aimed at restoring the faith and trust of the American people in their government: First, require all laws that apply to the rest of the country also apply equally to the Congress; Second, select a major independent auditing firm to conduct a comprehensive audit of Congress for waste, fraud, or abuse; Third, cut the number of House committees, and cut committee staff by one-third; Fourth, limit the terms of all committee chairs; Fifth, ban the casting of proxy votes in committee; Sixth, require committee meetings to be open to the public; Seventh, require a three-fifths majority vote to pass a tax increase; Eighth, guarantee an honest accounting of our federal budget by implementing zero baseline budgeting. 1. THE FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY ACT: A balanced budget/tax limitation amendment and a legislative line-item veto to restore fiscal responsibility to an out- of-control Congress. (Ruled unconstitutional by SCOTUS) 2. THE TAKING BACK OUR STREETS ACT: An anti-crime package including stronger truth-in- sentencing, "good faith" exclusionary rule exemptions, effective death penalty provisions, and cuts in social spending from this summer's "crime" bill to fund prison construction and additional law enforcement to keep people secure in their neighborhoods and kids safe in their schools. 3. THE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY ACT: Discourage illegitimacy and teen pregnancy by prohibiting welfare to minor mothers and denying increased AFDC for additional children while on welfare, cut spending for welfare programs, and enact a tough two-years-and-out provision with work requirements to promote individual responsibility. 4. THE FAMILY REINFORCEMENT ACT: Child support enforcement, tax incentives for adoption, strengthening rights of parents in their children's education, stronger child pornography laws, and an elderly dependent care tax credit to reinforce the central role of families in American society. 5. THE AMERICAN DREAM RESTORATION ACT: A S500 per child tax credit, begin repeal of the marriage tax penalty, and creation of American Dream Savings Accounts to provide middle class tax relief. 6. THE NATIONAL SECURITY RESTORATION ACT: No U.S. troops under U.N. command and restoration of the essential parts of our national security funding to strengthen our national defense and maintain our credibility around the world. 7. THE SENIOR CITIZENS FAIRNESS ACT: Raise the Social Security earnings limit which currently forces seniors out of the work force, repeal the 1993 tax hikes on Social Security benefits and provide tax incentives for private long-term care insurance to let Older Americans keep more of what they have earned over the years. 8. THE JOB CREATION AND WAGE ENHANCEMENT ACT: Small business incentives, capital gains cut and indexation, neutral cost recovery, risk assessment/cost-benefit analysis, strengthening the Regulatory Flexibility Act and unfunded mandate reform to create jobs and raise worker wages. 9. THE COMMON SENSE LEGAL REFORM ACT: "Loser pays" laws, reasonable limits on punitive damages and reform of product liability laws to stem the endless tide of litigation. 10. THE CITIZEN LEGISLATURE ACT: A first-ever vote on term limits to replace career politicians with citizen legislators.
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These had INCREDIBLE effects on reducing the welfare rolls, punishing criminals, stimulating free enterprise, reducing taxes and cutting unnecessary Gov't programs. It did the UNTHINKABLE - it decimated the welfare state that has been around for thirty years and forced millions off the public dole. [b]THAT'S[/b] what Republicans do when they come to Congress with a mandate. And that's what we need to push for again.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 4:04:23 PM EDT
I'm' a generally conservative-libertarian-republican sort of person. In this age of terrorist threats, I think we need to do both: End the welfare state and close borders. Ending welfare alone will probably do a world of good in keeping worthless losers out of our country. In a more peaceful time, I might be in favor of more open borders, but with today's terrorist threats, it just isn't a good idea. At the minimum, we need to enforce current immigration laws and keep illegals out with more then a slap on the wrist and a (free) trip back to where they came from. Closing the borders may not be an easy or cheap task, but if it stops the next batch of terrorists bent on destroying American lives and landmarks, then it's worth every penny.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 4:14:31 PM EDT
i bet they'll be assimilated into the great melting pot that is the usa, what is there to worry about viva aztlan!
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