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Posted: 11/25/2002 2:49:22 PM EDT
I've never called a media entity in my life until today. In reading the CNN Website - I noted a story about Chicago's lower Wacker Drive. [url]http://www.cnn.com/2002/TRAVEL/11/25/wacker.drive.ap/index.html[url] The first words of the article state: "CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- Home to vagrants, rodents of legendary size and an obstructing support column, decrepit Lower Wacker Drive was as much a Chicago classic as Bears football and Old Style beer." Now as I read it, it refers to Chicago as [sic] a home to vagrants and rodents of legendary size... I take serious offense to this. I grew up in and around Chicago and I've visited hundreds of places on the Earth and can honestly say it is the best city - period! How dear they slight this city. I called their Chicago Office (1-312-781-0500) and spoke of my displeasure. All those AR15.commers who agree with me should call too. Maybe we can get the numbskull who wrote the article to post some type of correction to clarify the above.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 2:54:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 3:00:32 PM EDT
opps - I should have prefaced my post with "Best city; period!" (Unless your a gunowner) - I'm a cop, so I can carry in Chicago. I've never even thought about that in this context.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 3:06:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2002 3:08:27 PM EDT by MillerSHO]
SO is it the massive rodents or the lack of balls in politics that make Chi town so desirable to you?? I would have to say you have some balls posting this on tihs website. You like CHI town cause you are a cop and gun laws don't effect you. Yea, that's going to get everyone here on this website dropping what they are doing and responding to your cause. [rolleyes] edited to say: Besides, that time could be used to write a congressman or state governer about gun issue's,homeland security, illegal immigrants or whatever hot button issue's are IMPORTANT.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 3:09:49 PM EDT
Can't say I would ever put Chicago into my list of decent places to live. Or for that matter New york, or Philadelphia, or Detroit, or Los Angeles, or ...... S-I
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 3:11:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2002 2:59:23 AM EDT by Grock]
Gotta agree with BATMAN on this one. Chicago may have once been a fine place, but today's chicago is not.(RANT DELETED)If only we could depose the scoundrel DALEY, there may be a chance to rescue the City, but the current political climate is bad and getting worse. God help the good people of Illinois.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 3:12:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2002 3:18:23 PM EDT by rallywagon]
I think if I wasn't a cop I'd still like it. I live in a predominantly republican county so I don't deal with the political machine down there. I do plan on going back once I get my law degree. It is relative. I just think this city has come a long way from it recent past and this just disparages the place. He may just as well of said it was a haven for street gangs and mafia. But he chose a more [visually] repugnant form of characterization. Its a love it or leave it option and despite the crap that Daily and his cohorts spew, It is still a genuinly kick ass place to live... I do understand your point of view. I don't debase it in the least. I know I'm just as pissed about the gun laws as you guys are. But, I hope to go back and at least have a chance to change things from the inside instead of standing back and bitching about it. (and I'm not saying you are!) The Democrats time will come in this town... and they know it.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 3:25:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rallywagon: I think if I wasn't a cop I'd still like it... I know I'm just as pissed about the gun laws as you guys are.
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hmm... really? personally there is no way in hell i'd live in chicago (i've been there many times, grew up in nw indiana). the city would expect me to basically rid myself of my entire collection of guns and register the 1 or 2 they still grant the privelage of possesion... what a joke, and no carry rights whatsoever (well, that's a statewide problem)... i wouldn't care if the rent was free. and frankly, now that i've studied up on the issues, i don't even care to visit there, for 1) b/c you don't have the right to defend yourself while you're there and 2) b/c i don't want to give a single cent to a city that has stripped away rights like they have. i honestly detest that state, i hate to even drive through it (no peaceable journey laws for those who don't know). it is certainly good to hear however, about a leo that feels citizens should have a right to carry there. i was beginning to think daley had everyone brainwashed. i'll also say a prayer for your safety in your job, as a military man, i have a lot of respect for those willing to put on a uniform for this country (especially those who correctly value freedom). God bless, Armed
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 3:31:39 PM EDT
rallywagon: also, i'm curious how you'd handle a certain scenario. if you pulled someone over for something other than wreckless behavior, like a tailight being out let's say, and as you approached the vehicle, the driver, very calmly, with hands on the wheel so you could see them, notified you that although he was aware of chicago's gun laws, that he had a loaded gun w/ him for the sake of self-defense... ... how would you personally handle this? and also how do you think some of your fellow officers would handle this? i await your response, Armed
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 3:38:19 PM EDT
Armed That is a tough one. I hate to give a vauge "lawyer like" answer but here it goes. It depends on the "totality of the cirumstances;" I would honestly hope he wouldn't tell me a thing. Get the ticket or warning and be on your way and I'll have absolutely no knowledge of the gun (unless its laying plain out in the open). If it is in the open, that person probably isn't that smart and deserves to have me draw my weapon on them. Illinois (state) gun laws require that a firearm be transported in a case and ammo seperate from the gun. Anyone doing this gets no flack from me. Your hypo states that it is loaded and what? - Within reach, stuffed under the seat, in plain view... You see what I'm getting at? It really is a gray area that just can't be approached without more facts. Sorry if this seems vauge also.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 3:44:04 PM EDT
rallywagon: no, not vague at all... let's see, let me be more specific. as i said, he had hands on the wheel to signal to you he had no harmful intent (or should i not assume that such behavior equates to no harmful intent?? i didn't think of that) no, not laying out on the seat, perhaps under his seat. so with hands on the wheel, he let you know he had it under the seat and loaded. so you would rather he not tell you at all? well i can understand that, but my question would be, what if during the conversation (about whatever else) it slipped into view on the floorboard, would you then had rather he told you? thanks for the quick response.. (and sorry to bash chicago so much since you love the city... i use to be a die hard cubs fan... till they traded grace [:(!])
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 7:44:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 8:25:50 AM EDT
No offense taken Batman The "totality of the circumstances" is merely the set up. The second needed ingrediant is what you; as a cop or lawyer, can "articulate" to the trier of fact... as the saying goes, its not what is true, but what you can prove in court. RW
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 1:07:46 PM EDT
RallyCop, You are a fucking nitwit, in terms of your knowledge of Illinois gun laws, which proves to me that you really must be a cop. You remind me of the CPD JBT's who pushed a bunch of us pro-gunners away from Daley's recent anti-gun rally. You said "Illinois (state) gun laws require that a firearm be transported in a case (with) ammo seperate from the gun". In FACT, Illinois law says the gun must be unloaded and encased, and you must be a vaild FOID holder. Illinois law DOES NOT stipulate that the gun must be in your trunk, under lock and key, or seperate from the ammo. You can have the ammo, even a loaded magazine, in the case with the gun, as long as the gun isn't loaded. I guess they really glossed over IL. gun laws in Cop School. If you doubt me, check out http://www.state.il.us/isp/docs/ptfire.pdf This link goes to the Illinois State Police site and gives you a nice handy brochure you can show to an ignorant copper when he starts blathering about locking guns in your trunk or a loaded mag being the same as a loaded gun. My grandfather and a recently deceased family friend were lifelong Chgo "Coppers", which was what they called themselves, and they both lamented the state of the city, the caliber of coppers and the damn gun laws. If the cops would stand up with gun owning "civilians" against King Daley and his hand-puppet Govenor-Elect, we could change things.... but heck, why should you care..... you're a cop....you can carry 24/7/365 For more info, check out "www.concealcarry.org" CKMorley
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 1:30:51 PM EDT
Well, at a "pat-yourself-on-the-back-we-just-stole-sixty million-dollars-from-the-federal-and-state-government press conference the mayor and governor had this snowy morning, after the "festivities", the first question asked of the mayor by a local ABC reporter (Andy Shaw) was whether the homeless people who used to live in lower Wacker, were welcome back. The mayor basically said no, ranting on about helping the "mentally ill" and "people with drug and alcohol addictions", and how churches, etc. can help them out. It was great, seeing Mayor Daley's mood turn from upbeat to downbeat in a matter of minutes![:D]
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 5:15:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2002 5:21:54 PM EDT by rallywagon]
Yes, a very interesting 3rd post... Lets see who really is a nitwit here.
Originally Posted By CKMorley: You said "Illinois (state) gun laws require that a firearm be transported in a case (with) ammo seperate from the gun".
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In my original post I said "and" you of course supply a different word but really its a question of symantics because the result is the same.
In FACT, Illinois law says the gun must be unloaded and encased,
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and your point is? Ammo seperate from the gun would entail the gun is unloaded.
and you must be a vaild FOID holder. Illinois law DOES NOT stipulate that the gun must be in your trunk, under lock and key, or seperate from the ammo. You can have the ammo, even a loaded magazine, in the case with the gun, as long as the gun isn't loaded.
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Well lets see. I was addressing this to someone who lives out of state. (But of course you were to wound up to deduce that much.) Armed does not require a FOID card. Continuing, I never said it had to be in the trunk, under lock and key and "separate from the ammo" is just another symantic hurdle for your inane argument to make sense - of course, the goal is to have an unloaded gun, which "seperate from the ammo" would logically conclude. (But hey, who needs logic.)
(it)gives you a nice handy brochure you can show to an ignorant copper when he starts blathering about locking guns in your trunk or a loaded mag being the same as a loaded gun.
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And I said these things where? Ohh, wait, the only way you can sound intelligent is to invent facts....
My grandfather and a recently deceased family friend were lifelong Chgo "Coppers", which was what they called themselves, and they both lamented the state of the city, the caliber of coppers and the damn gun laws.
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Using your logic, "coppers" denotes Chicago cops. I, however, use the term "cop" that would mean..... right Einstein; I'm not a Chicago cop. And if I remember correctly, I never said I was.... hmmmm. Caliber of "coppers?" I'm sure your grandfather and friend were excellent police officers. I hold them in the highest respect. I would surmize that they would at least wait until they met me before they passed judgment(unlike you.)
If the cops would stand up with gun owning "civilians" against King Daley and his hand-puppet Govenor-Elect, we could change things.... but heck, why should you care..... you're a cop....you can carry 24/7/365
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Reading, its fundamental. Did not the 6th post down outline my stand on civilian gun owning... Naa, that would upset your immature tirade. Want to carry 24/7/365 support your politicians, get out and vote or; attend one of the many fine police academies in our state! I must remind myself that anytime I decide to post about the state of the law, I'll shall pull every fucking statute and Shepardize it to the point my eyes bleed. Then I'll take hours to post it word for word in my post so that there is absolutely no room for error in anybody interpreting it - even for such a laid back place like AR15.com. Yup, I'm a nitwit - consider the source.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 5:26:42 PM EDT
I did my OB/GYN, pathology, anesthesia, and emergency dept rotations at St. Anthony's on West 19th St. I lived in Oak Park. Chicago is a socialist shit hole. It is very anti freedom and the people are a collection of cranky assholes, mean spirited shitheads, and fulminant parasites. If it wasn't so damned cold I would have thought I was back living in the Carribean. I vote we nuke Baghdad and Chicago simultaneously, or maybe just Chicago as a warning to Baghdad. On the plus side, I did get to see a lot of interesting corpses at the Cook County medical examiner's office. My favorite was the hooker strangled with her own underwear.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 5:34:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rallywagon: opps - I should have prefaced my post with "Best city; period!" (Unless your a gunowner) - I'm a cop, so I can carry in Chicago. I've never even thought about that in this context.
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Well, as an "underserving" citizen, I can't carry in Chicago. As a matter of fact, from my understanding, I can't even bring my preban CAR-15 into Cook County (that THEY know of!!). My wife is from Chicago, and her parents now live in Oak Lawn, and I told my wife that when I got out of the USMC, there was NO CHANCE IN HELL that I would live in that f--ked up state, as long as they were anti-self defence. Or as long as a spawn of Daly is in politics.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 5:59:46 PM EDT
All I have to say is that Chicago IS totally sweet and all you guys baggin' on it are more than likely either NOT from there or never have BEEN there (especially that dude from NW Indiana or maybe those guys from Italy that 'won' guns at the meet this summer, yeah right). You all make me want to crap my pants! AMG
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 6:07:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 6:25:46 PM EDT
I read it as referring to the drive and from everything I've read Chicago is worse than CA and NY City when it comes to guns
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 6:26:11 PM EDT
I drove through Chicago once years ago. That was enough for me, I'm never going back there.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 7:11:23 PM EDT
I've only been there once, when I was about 12. I'd like to go back to visit the museums and check out blues festivals. I think I'll stick with looking at books and listening to cd's. Rallywagon, if the gunowners can stick it out up there and bring about some positive change, then more power to ya. I think it would truly take a miracle. I'm just praying that Daley/Madagins(pl)/ and Blojo don't bring their brand of poison to us downstaters.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 7:44:33 PM EDT
I am perfectly fair - I HATE ALL LARGE CITIES EQUALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never been to Chi town and it is my sincerest wish never to have that imposed on me. For those who like it, or any large city, feel free. I for one am unable to comprehend why ANYONE wants to live in a center of crime, high taxes, massive corruption, mirad laws, regulations, rules, SOCIALISTS, pollution high property prices, traffic jams, noise, and stink. I am sure I missed a number of other good reasons to avoid cities but at least this is a good start! Actually, Ohio is a vastly overpopulated communist state. Maybe COMRADE Taft will eventually "allow" CCW but I doubt it.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 8:02:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AMG: All I have to say is that Chicago IS totally sweet and all you guys baggin' on it are more than likely either NOT from there or never have BEEN there (especially that dude from NW Indiana or maybe those guys from Italy that 'won' guns at the meet this summer, yeah right). You all make me want to crap my pants! AMG
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i've have been there probably 20-30 times; cubs games, sox games, trips to the museum, the car show at mccormick place, etc. really doesn't matter if you believe it or not. if you can't understand why a gunowner despises the city then you must have never taken the time to familiarize yourself with its legislation.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 8:53:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hydguy: Well, as an "underserving" citizen, I can't carry in Chicago. As a matter of fact, from my understanding, I can't even bring my preban CAR-15 into Cook County (that THEY know of!!).
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There is allegedly a law that bans "assault weapons" in unincorporated Cook County but I can't find any text of this law and even if it it wouldn't matter to me (I don't live in unincorportated Cook County) or you. You can transport whatever is legal in the state (which is everything except Class III) through Chicago if you are passing through.
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: I for one am unable to comprehend why ANYONE wants to live in a center of crime, high taxes, massive corruption, mirad laws, regulations, rules, SOCIALISTS, pollution high property prices, traffic jams, noise, and stink. I am sure I missed a number of other good reasons to avoid cities but at least this is a good start!
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The taxation in Chicago is insane. It has got to be the most corrupt, money-losing city in all of America. As evidence of this, take a closer look the next time you see a posting of national gas prices: Chicago is always at the top of the list in the continental US, sometimes sharing that position only with Los Angeles. I think they actually tried to post a law banning Chicago residents from getting gas out of the city or something like that. Even with all the taxes they still can't make the budget this year. LOL!!
Actually, Ohio is a vastly overpopulated communist state. Maybe COMRADE Taft will eventually "allow" CCW but I doubt it.
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If he doesn't sign a bill, all the better for you: you'll get Vermont-style CCW from the courts.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 9:15:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: I am perfectly fair - I HATE ALL LARGE CITIES EQUALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never been to Chi town and it is my sincerest wish never to have that imposed on me. For those who like it, or any large city, feel free. I for one am unable to comprehend why ANYONE wants to live in a center of crime, high taxes, massive corruption, mirad laws, regulations, rules, SOCIALISTS, pollution high property prices, traffic jams, noise, and stink. I am sure I missed a number of other good reasons to avoid cities but at least this is a good start! Actually, Ohio is a vastly overpopulated communist state. Maybe COMRADE Taft will eventually "allow" CCW but I doubt it.
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Higher wage jobs. I keep tellin myself... A set person isn't one who makes a good wage. A set person is one who makes a good wage in a small town or in the country. I'll hopefully be there one day. [8D]
Link Posted: 11/29/2002 8:29:15 AM EDT
Rally, Debate semantics all you want, but most people who read "Illinois (state) gun laws require that a firearm be transported in a case and ammo seperate from the gun. ", would take it as meaning the ammo must not be in the same area or same case as the gun. Thats why alot of us carry those IL State Police brochure in our guncases. A couple examples why: An out-of-stater from Minn. named Voss was pulled over a few years back in DuPage County IL for speeding and got nailed with Felony Unlawful Use of a Weapon for having a unloaded and cased pistol in his pickup cab. The prosecuting atty kept this poor guy in court for years because he and the arresting officer believed that "ammo seperate from the gun" meant a locked case, or somewhere else in the vehicle. A buddy of mine (an IL resident) was arrested for the same exact thing last summer, also in good old Rebuplican-controlled Dupage county. When a few hundred of us threatened to march on the State's Atty's office, they admitted that "the charges are not supported by the evidence" and dropped the case. And if that's not enough, the head of the grassroots group I belong to just informed us of another case, this time in Chicago where gun-unfriendly LEO's arrested a motorist, passing through Chgo on his way home from the range, for having an unloaded, cased pistol on the seat nex t to him. He was also changed with Felony UUW under the IL state law. They didn't hit him with the Chgo handgun ban ordinance, so this is not a case of the damn Chicago laws- it's a case of uninformed cops or coppers misinterpreting the Illinois State gun laws and locking up decent folks who have done nothing wrong. In this most recent case, the motorist was a young African American with 'dreads, so I guess the "totality of circumstances" in his case dictated that the officers charge him with a state class 4 felony....... even though he was in complete compliance with the law. I could really care less whether you are Chgo PD or a DuPage County Deputy of an Illinois State Trooper. The point I'm trying to make is that anti-gun or mis-informed LEO's are RAMPANT in Illinois. As for my pro-gun activities, I've written more letters to the editor and my politicians than 100 average gun owners, I've counter-protested Daley at every opportunity, I've passed out literature at gunshows and I've faxed copies of the ISP brochure to dozens of Police Chiefs....... all for naught it would seem, if law abiding folks must endure days in County lockup, staggering legal fees because the cops in IL have a "lock them all up and let the judge decide mentality". CKMorley
Link Posted: 11/29/2002 9:00:42 AM EDT
hmph, I can't agree that Chicago is anything but crap. I was born in cook co. and spent a week recently (in July) in a friend's condo in the gold coast....why would you return if you dislike it so much? Because, unfortunately, it's the nearest site of a decent auto show...it has a few good museums/planetarium/aquarium and because I like to go watch the blackhawks play. Frankly though, I would rather go somewhere else if I could. A few things to do, a great city does not make. I have a friend in chitown who is also of the mentality that Chicago is the greatest city on earth. I don't understand this at all. In any case, it was a mistake to suggest the greatness of Chicago, a city run by a democratic political machine with draconian gun laws on a rather pro-gun board. Beyond that, I read the article to suggest that it was lower wacker drive that has become the cesspool, not the whole of chicago. This is because "decrepit lower wacker drive," as a clause, immediately follows the other descriptors...Chicago is only used for the phrase chicago classic which seems to also be a descriptor clearly referring to wacker drive. practice that statutory construction!
Link Posted: 11/29/2002 7:36:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2002 7:43:00 PM EDT by rallywagon]
CKMorley I appreciate the change in your attitude from your first post. I understand your frustration with the system. As a member of this board, I'm on your side. I know the gun laws because it is a hobby of mine. I also know cops that I couldn't drag to the range even if promised a case of beer. This fact is indicative that their not informed of gun laws. There is a certain mind set for some cops that will charge away and let the prosecuters and defense attorneys sort it out.I'd say a majority of those cops are plain lazy. However, charging cops for failing to interpret the law right is slippery ground; (Though wouldn't that be nice!) otherwise you would have a severe drop in the quality and quantity of cops. Cops do not want to hang their ass on the line without the "good intentions" unspoken rule that protects many of them. Cook County is a state unto itself and its laws reflect that. DuPage Co. however is a place for folks like you and me. They won't necessarily tow the line; in fact I think they hate the shit out of Daily. In my opinion,the thing with DuPage Co. is an overzealousness to recover from embarrassment for their past screw ups. When you get down to brass tacks, it is safer for politicians to be "tough on crime" and that includes gun laws. I back you 100% with your goals, you're educating the politicians. More power to you and please; don't think that all cops are out to get gunowners. RW
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