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Posted: 11/21/2002 6:38:40 AM EDT
Found this on the Fox news website: Gov. to moniter all purchases by U.S. citizens WASHINGTON — A massive database that the government will use to monitor every purchase made by every American citizen is a necessary tool in the war on terror, the Pentagon said Wednesday. Edward Aldridge, undersecretary of Acquisitions and Technology, told reporters that the Pentagon is developing a prototype database to seek "patterns indicative of terrorist activity." Aldridge said the database would collect and use software to analyze consumer purchases in hopes of catching terrorists before it's too late. "The bottom line is this is an important research project to determine the feasibility of using certain transactions and events to discover and respond to terrorists before they act," he said. Aldridge said the database, which he called another "tool" in the war on terror, would look for telltale signs of suspicious consumer behavior. Examples he cited were: sudden and large cash withdrawals, one-way air or rail travel, rental car transactions and purchases of firearms, chemicals or agents that could be used to produce biological or chemical weapons. It would also combine consumer information with visa records, passports, arrest records or reports of suspicious activity given to law enforcement or intelligence services. Rear Adm. John Poindexter, former national security adviser to President Reagan, is developing the database under the Total Information Awareness Program. Poindexter was convicted on five counts of misleading Congress and making false statements during the Iran-Contra investigation. Those convictions were later overturned, but critics note that his is a dubious resume for someone entrusted with so sensitive a task. Aldridge said Poindexter will only "develop the tool, he will not be exercising the tool." He said Poindexter brought the database idea to the Pentagon and persuaded Aldridge and others to pursue it. "John has a real passion for this project," Aldridge said. TIAF's office logo is now one eye scanning the globe. The translation of the Latin motto: knowledge is power. Some say, possibly too much power. "What this is talking about is making us a nation of suspects and I am sorry, the United States citizens should not have to live in fear of their own government and that is exactly what this is going to turn out to be," said Chuck Pena, senior defense policy analyst at the Cato Institute. Pena and others say the database is an even greater violation of privacy rights than Attorney General John Ashcroft's nixed proposal to turn postal workers and delivery men into government tipsters. No matter what protections Congress requires, Pena fears a database big enough and nimble enough to track the entire nation's spending habits is ripe for abuse. "I don't think once you put something like this in place, you can ever create enough checks and balances and oversight," Pena said. When it's ready, Aldridge said individual privacy rights will be protected. But he could not explain how the data would be accessed.
Link Posted: 11/21/2002 6:39:39 AM EDT
... for the third time.... Still pisses me off tho. I could be a terrorist because I bought another gun. Puhleeze...
Link Posted: 11/21/2002 6:44:30 AM EDT
Define terrorist. Depending on whose definition we go by, we could ALL end up in trouble!
Link Posted: 11/21/2002 6:47:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2002 6:49:41 AM EDT by warlord]
Does purchase of 10,000 rounds of 7.62NATO qualify for inclusion as a terrorist suspect? Better stock up now, it won't take long for some of us to appear on the Feds radar screens as potential terrorsts, and for the Feds to control ammo, powder primers etc.
Link Posted: 11/21/2002 6:51:49 AM EDT
I said this was going to happen a long time ago, even before 09/11/01. I hate to bring it up again but I've always thought that the discount purchase cards (like Safeway and QFC have) are just test markets for a universal card that everyone would use to purchase everything. Just like gun control they bring it on slowly, a little at a time. Nobody cares if Safeway can track what you buy, right? But we get used to that then next thing you know we are using cards like that for everything. Instant purchase tracking for Uncle Sam![uzi] [peep]
Link Posted: 11/21/2002 7:11:38 AM EDT
Change your patterns. Use cash for everything. Cash transactions are not traceable. Cut up your credit cards and only use your check book to pay bills. Buy all your guns, groceries, ammo, mags, etc with cash. Oppose any attempts to move us to a cashless society.
Link Posted: 11/21/2002 7:40:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2002 7:41:44 AM EDT by jrzy]
I have been defending the President and his cabinet and I have been saying that they are not going to futher infringe on our rights. I am rethinking that stance, I am as anti tinfoil as they come but we are headed down a road that is frought with danger to our freedoms. The govt. is in danger of causing what we all thought would never really happen, TEOTWAWKI ! Well boys and girls it has been a pleasure to read your posts and to shoot with some of you ,if TSHTF I wish all of you good fortune and good luck,see you on the other side.
Link Posted: 11/21/2002 8:01:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jrzy: The govt. is in danger of causing what we all thought would never really happen, TEOTWAWKI ! Well boys and girls it has been a pleasure to read your posts and to shoot with some of you ,if TSHTF I wish all of you good fortune and good luck,see you on the other side.
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[img]http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/sadness.gif[/img] This one says it all better than anything I can add. Learn a new phrase..."Livin Off The Net."
Link Posted: 11/21/2002 8:24:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 556fiend: Its the end of the world as we know it...
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...And I feel fine. Six o'clock - TV hour. Don't get caught in foreign towers. Slash and burn, return, listen to yourself churn..........
Link Posted: 11/23/2002 9:07:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 2whiskeyP: I said this was going to happen a long time ago, even before 09/11/01. I hate to bring it up again but I've always thought that the discount purchase cards (like Safeway and QFC have) are just test markets for a universal card that everyone would use to purchase everything. Just like gun control they bring it on slowly, a little at a time. Nobody cares if Safeway can track what you buy, right? But we get used to that then next thing you know we are using cards like that for everything. Instant purchase tracking for Uncle Sam![uzi] [peep]
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I heard a radio report that the Electronic Frontier Foundation had info on their site about the FBI going through Safeway club card members purchases looking for purchasers of something called cummin, which apparently is part of a middle eastern diet. Do you buy pizza with a credit card? You fit a profile. Now they are coming out with cameras that make a sound that is supposed to get you to reflexively look for where it is coming from and exposing your face to the camera.
Link Posted: 11/23/2002 9:28:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Axel: I heard a radio report that the Electronic Frontier Foundation had info on their site about the FBI going through Safeway club card members purchases looking for purchasers of something called cummin, which apparently is part of a middle eastern diet.
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Cummin is a commonly used spice in many foods besides middle eastern dishes. They might as well start monitoring saffron sales for possible drug/arms dealers.
Link Posted: 11/23/2002 9:31:10 PM EDT
No lie. They have a poster in the Associate Lounges at Wally Worlds to tell you the things a person buys to make Meth. Don't know the ratio of caught drugdealers versus harrassed citizens, however..... Scott
Link Posted: 11/23/2002 9:59:40 PM EDT
Moniter this Mo Fo!!!![50]
Link Posted: 11/23/2002 11:06:51 PM EDT
If you arnt on Gov't watch lists already, you guys arnt doing your jobs. My dossier probably reads like an extra for James Bond as a bad guy: 25 Married. Has an alias. Enlisted at age 24, E-3, USAR, 19K10 Born to very conservative Christian father & Muslim mother of German and Croatian backgrounds respectively. Currently active in his mother's faith. BA, military history and journalism. Active for four years in Air Force and Army ROTC during college before dropping out due to conflict with a fellow cadet with whom he had previously been involved with romanticaly. Active, open association during college with members of "right wing paramilitary groups". Personal fascination with irregular and 'grass roots' warfare including revolution, insurrection and rebellion. Known to be very active in firearms, having owned over 200 in the eight years since he was 18. Known to be armed, or have access to arms at all times. Known to keep large amounts of ammunition and survival food on hand. Has a large library including fiction and non fiction by controvercial "right wing" authors. Currently studying the Mujahideen movements, including a number of various active and inactive contacts therein. Known to be an idealistic hothead by associates, prone to emotionally driven rants on percieved injustices in society and culture. I could go on- how many people think the FBI likes to watch me? (Raise your hands) How many people think they've checked me for Al-Quada links? (Raise your hands) How many people think I've gotten my own spook yet?
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 1:07:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RebelGray: If you arnt on Gov't watch lists already, you guys arnt doing your jobs. My dossier probably reads like an extra for James Bond as a bad guy: Active for four years in Air Force and Army ROTC during college before dropping out due to conflict with a fellow cadet with whom he had previously been involved with romanticaly.
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Was he cute? Scott
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 1:34:44 AM EDT
Relax you overzealous tinfoil hat wearing paranoids. Our wonderful Republican leaders wouldn't do anything to take away our rights. The Patriots Act and Homeland Security are only a means to take care of FOREIGN terrorists and differences of opinions. You folks that want a different type of government or set of laws are perfectly free to change them by any means at your disposal, trust me. Oh by the way, didn't you just buy ANOTHER box of .223? Do you hunt a lot?... Oh I see, you go to the range a lot. Uhm... Why? Is an AR-15 necessary? I really don't think so. Hey, you got nothing to hide right? Why would anyone own one of those 30 round mags? Why did you buy an 8 pound keg of IMR 4895. Come on, 1500 55 grain full metal jacket in .223, why not let us see your reloading bench... what are you hiding? Do we really need to get a warrant? What do you think about our glorious leader? Hey buddy, Relax, the questions are just routine. Relax, The questions are just routine. Relax, The questions are just routine. Relax, The questions are just routine. Relax, The questions are just routine. Yes... It seems like every day is TEOTWAWKI.
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 2:17:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DScottHewitt:
Originally Posted By RebelGray: If you arnt on Gov't watch lists already, you guys arnt doing your jobs. My dossier probably reads like an extra for James Bond as a bad guy: Active for four years in Air Force and Army ROTC during college before dropping out due to conflict with a fellow cadet with whom he had previously been involved with romanticaly.
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Was he cute? Scott
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Oh, was he? you bet your sweet ass big boy. :P
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