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Posted: 11/20/2002 4:03:32 PM EDT
First, if this belongs in another forum, feel free to move it. I am in a friendly hustle with my dad over a Light Browning A5 he got today. I looked up the serial number and it was made in 1952, the first year FN started making them according to Browning's site. The blue is complete in all places except high spots such as the back of the hump and the shell intake. Apparently the original barrel was cut down to 18.5 inches for "bird hunting" according to the old man that sold it to my dad. There is another barrel that comes with it, but I forgot to ask what length. Both barrels are full choke. The wood is free of gouges but there is discoloration on the pistol grip from handling. The bore is clean and oiled, so the gun has received regular maintainance. Shotgun is 2&3/4. It has a buttplate that is stamped FN, but the rest is Browning. Any idea how much I should put into this gun? Anything else I should look for to determine value. I noticed on some auction sites that they were advertising the "round knob" as more valuable, but I couldn't find anything else about it. thanks, tony
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 4:18:39 PM EDT
While we're on the subject... I have one i inherited from my Granddad that I would like to know its value. It is a plain jane 12ga with a 4 digit ser #. It was built in 1925.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 4:37:42 PM EDT
Well seeing as how they don't make them anymore and they are great shotguns, I guess the answer is as much as you want to. I have several and they are great shotguns. But as to the guns worth on the market it is worth about 500-600 dollars in the described condition. The last time they were sold, with invecter plus barrels (screw in chokes) they were going for about 700.00 dollars, the value can just go up they have stopped making them. A note this is my favorite varient of shotgun. Good luck with your shooter.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 5:08:43 PM EDT
The FN buttplate is correct. The cut down barrel will no longer be full choked, obviously! I'll give you $200. [;)] Seriously, down here it would bring about $500 or so. Balming
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 6:17:14 PM EDT
Thanks for the replies guys. I talked to my dad again, and to quote him he just wanted to "pucker my asshole" a bit. He priced it at 750 at first. :) He told me he would give it to me for what I have my SS Mini14 Ranch in consignment for in his shop. $400. Chalk one more piece to my collection. tony
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 8:04:48 PM EDT
I looked up the serial number and it was made in 1952, the first year FN started making them according to Browning's site.
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They were manufactured from the get-go (1903) by FN, but were marketed for sale overseas. Remington, and later Savage, had the manufacturing and marketing rights for the U.S. until 1951.
It has a buttplate that is stamped FN, but the rest is Browning.
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EVERY, and I mean EVERY, FN-produced Auto 5 had an FN-marked buttplate. Nothing significant here.
I noticed on some auction sites that they were advertising the "round knob" as more valuable, but I couldn't find anything else about it.
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Not more valuable. They had a round knob pistol grip with wrap around checkering until 1967 and then switched over to a flat knob pistol grip. Don't get sucked into paying a premium for that. There are more of the round knob guns out there anyway.
Well seeing as how they don't make them anymore and they are great shotguns, I guess the answer is as much as you want to. I have several and they are great shotguns. But as to the guns worth on the market it is worth about 500-600 dollars in the described condition.
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Negative. His gun has the older solid carrier vice the split carrier added around 1957. The cut barrel hurts the value, but the extra (assuming it is all original without a vile Polychoke or Cutts) offsets it somewhat. This gun is at the lower end of Browning Auto 5 values. About $350, give or take a little.
The last time they were sold, with invecter plus barrels (screw in chokes) they were going for about 700.00 dollars, the value can just go up they have stopped making them.
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Nope. I gave $624 for my Light 20 with Invector Plus in 1995. In 1998, I considered buying another Light 20 at Academy for $659. I wound up buying a Light 12 last year from a dealer in Indiana, NIB with Invector Plus, for $775. They're advertised quite regularly in Gun List 99% to NIB for $650 to near $800, depending upon condition, accessories, etc. The price isn't exactly escalating.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 8:12:27 PM EDT
Not trying to disagree because I don't know and want to learn, but here is where I got the bit of info about FN production dates. [url]http://www.browning.com/services/dategun/guns/auto5.htm[/url] thanks again for the replies tony
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 8:15:33 PM EDT
The production of the Auto-5 began in 1902. Produced by F.N., John M. Browning ordered 10,000 of these shotguns in his first order.
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And you are disagreeing in what way? The Remington Model 11 (Auto 5 derivative) was introduced in 1905. Browning licensed many of his designs to U.S. companies for sale domestically and to FN for sale overseas.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 8:35:15 PM EDT
Oh I didn't see that in the first part. That confuses me more. Under 1952 "F.N. took over production of the Auto-5." ??? tony
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 8:36:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:
I looked up the serial number and it was made in 1952, the first year FN started making them according to Browning's site.
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They were manufactured from the get-go (1903) by FN, but were marketed for sale overseas. Remington, and later Savage, had the manufacturing and marketing rights for the U.S. until 1951.
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Yes, as I understand it, they were made in Belgium from 1903. This stopped in the the '40s because of Europe's Hitler problem, then resumed again in '52. I disagree that the pre-war Belgian A5's were marketed only outside the US. My grandfather bought his in the states in about 1930, serial number is 153,XXX.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 8:55:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2002 9:13:29 PM EDT by Jim_Dandy]
The Auto 5's production history is almost as complicated as its design. Until its inception, J.M. Browning had sold his designs outright, primarily to Winchester. However, he wanted to maintain ownership of the design and license its manufacture to whomever he chose. Consequently, he and the wheels at Winchester had a major falling out. He then makes a tentative deal with Remington only to have it go up in smoke when Remington's then-president, Marcellus Hartley died of a heart attack prior to a formal meeting with Browning. Overseas he goes to FN where the shotguns are manufactured and sold through Browning's sporting goods store in Ogden, Utah until new leadership is appointed at Remington to make a deal with Browning over the royalties to the Auto 5 and about a half-dozen other firearms (Model 8 rifle, Model 24 rifle, Model 10 shotgun, etc.). Browning's heirs licensed Savage to produce a variant of the Auto 5 (the Model 720) beginning in 1933. After WWII, with the royalty contracts expired, Browning began marketing FN-produced firearms directly in the U.S. and around the world.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 8:59:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2002 9:15:14 PM EDT by Jim_Dandy]
I disagree that the pre-war Belgian A5's were marketed only outside the US. My grandfather bought his in the states in about 1930, serial number is 153,XXX.
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Disagree all you like, but they were not produced with the U.S. market in mind. As you may well know, that rarely stops things from making their way here. Ever seen an Auto 5 barrel marked "Acier Special?" Not meant for the U.S. market at all (means "special steel" in French according to Browning), but beaucoup of them made their way here through Canadian wholesalers and other means, just like the Trombone rifles. They've never been marketed directly to the U.S. either.
This stopped in the the '40s because of Europe's Hitler problem, then resumed again in '52.
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Noooooooo, it didn't "resume again in '52." Browning began marketing the FN-produced guns directly to the U.S. market in 1952. FN had commenced producing the Auto 5 at the end of the war (1945, if you're curious as to when the "Hitler problem" ended). Savage's agreement on the Model 720 ended in 1948 and Remington's agreement on the Model 11 ended in 1951.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 10:00:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy: (1945 if you're curious as to when the "Hitler problem" ended
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Are insults really necessary? I prefaced my statement with "as I understand it", and thus I do not claim to be an all- knowing expert on the history of Browning firearms. I would also point out that the factories of Europe were not magically transformed to their pre-war configuration and capabilities upon the death of Mr. Hitler. So it would not surprise me if it took awhile after the end of the war for gun companies to be producing civilian arms again. But back to the thread... I could certainly believe my grampa's gun came in through Canada, as he lived close to the border, so maybe that's it. The barrel is stamped "Special Steel", but not in French. So I'm not sure how it may be related to the "Acier Special" barrels you mention. In addition to a bewildering array of proof marks and such, the barrel is also stamped "Made in Belgium" and "Browning Arms Company Ogden Utah" Would a gun made by FN, for non US consumption, be labeled this way? I don't know. BTW, the barrel appears to be original as the 4 digit number stamped into it matches the last four digits of the serial number on the receiver, as well as having the finish in the same condition.
Link Posted: 11/21/2002 4:12:12 AM EDT
The barrel is stamped "Special Steel", but not in French. So I'm not sure how it may be related to the "Acier Special" barrels you mention.
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Uh, gee, go back and [b][i]reread[/i][/b]. These barrels weren't meant for the U.S. market (they were made post-war anyway). They were only mentioned for analagous purposes.
In addition to a bewildering array of proof marks and such, the barrel is also stamped "Made in Belgium" and "Browning Arms Company Ogden Utah" Would a gun made by FN, for non US consumption, be labeled this way? I don't know.
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Uh, yes. You do realize that English is spoken in OTHER countries, don't you?
BTW, the barrel appears to be original as the 4 digit number stamped into it matches the last four digits of the serial number on the receiver, as well as having the finish in the same condition.
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If your gun is in fact, a pre-war Auto 5 (I have my doubts based on the barrel address you gave), the last three digits of the serial number will be stamped in each action screw.
Link Posted: 11/21/2002 4:58:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2002 5:01:06 AM EDT by RotDorn]
...by Jim_Dandy: This gun is at the lower end of Browning Auto 5 values. About $350, give or take a little.
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I believe this to be an accurate assessment. I also have a love for the Humpbacks. What I do is buy barrels in the off season on places like ebay, and gunbroker. LY I picked up a Bel 26" mod for $135, after season. Sold the Poly[i]choke[/i] barrel that was on there on ebay during season for $285! Also remember on Postwar guns you can use the Japanese barrels, with invector tubes. J_D, also iirc on thePre wars the saftey was in front of the trigger guard correct? in addition to the screws having the ser# on them.
Link Posted: 11/21/2002 7:43:51 AM EDT
J_D, also iirc on thePre wars the saftey was in front of the trigger guard correct? in addition to the screws having the ser# on them.
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That's right. The American Brownings (AKA Remington Model 11 in disguise) are the only exception to the rule. The majority of these guns were sold post-war.
Also remember on Postwar guns you can use the Japanese barrels, with invector tubes.
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True most of the time. Occasionally there are fit issues with the barrel ring and forearm which is remedied with another forearm.
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