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Posted: 11/19/2002 7:53:38 PM EDT
Hello folks. Please excuse my ignorance, since I was not raised with U.S cultural customs and heritage, that I do not understand this. Before I say anything, I want to say this is not intended to offend or flame ANYONE, but I'm just asking it out of pure curiosity. I've been around this board for a little while and I occasionally saw lots of people getting divorced because of numerous reasons, whether if it was their fault or not. But that's not important anyway. I am currently 19 years old, which means I haven't seen too much of world or life yet, but I don't understand why it seems like when divorce occurs usually husbands take more financial, material, or in some cases, mental responsibilities than wives? From my point of view, it looks like it doesn't matter who starts divorce, but in any event, wives usually get the upper hand except extraordinary situations. I don't think it has to do with whether they "currently have paid job" or not. Also, even if husband has done nothing too much wrong, wives are usually be able to take children when they divorce. Does law say that wives can raise children better than husbands? I can understand that... but from my view, I see many qualifiable husbands, especially in United States, since major portion of husbands take care or aid houseworks daily. In South Korea, where I originally came from, the old style trend and customs generally indicate that husbands go out to work and wives stay home and take care of houseworks and children. Of course, previous statement no longer holds ground because after 1970s or so, many wives got their jobs and nowadays we can frequently see both parents working, and taking care of themselves, which means they help two-ways. Again, I'm not offending any one and I might be an ignorant @$$hole who doesn't understand cultural values of United States, but I just wanted to logically think about it. I will be appreciated if you folks could please share them.
Link Posted: 11/19/2002 8:32:36 PM EDT
Your average American Woman is meaner than your average American Man.
Link Posted: 11/19/2002 8:33:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/19/2002 9:06:41 PM EDT
Remember, this is primarily a *guy's* website, so it's not like you're getting a very balanced perspective. It's pretty biased, I think. Unless, of course, you think all guys are perfect, and all women are not. Why don't you ask how many happily married men there are here, and ask them how much of that is due to each partner. I think it takes two to make it work right- and it DOES work right every so often.
Link Posted: 11/19/2002 9:12:45 PM EDT
Maverick, Some judges,particulaly women judges,tend to rule in favor of the mother.If the parents were not married,its a 99.9% chance the mother will get the child/children. The judge that I had was a man,but my wife kept bringing me to court for dumb shit like who gets what,custody arrangements,etc... that the last time I was in front of him,just before a final divorce decree,he told that "if I ever see you again REGARDLESS of the reason,he was going to put me in jail for 30 days!! She "REALLY" pissed him off! To top it off,when I started divorce proceedings,I had PROOF of Adultery among other things and I STILL LOST my ass. Divorce in this country SUCKS for the man. I lost time from work(money),lawyers fees(more MONEY),and personal items (alot MORE MONEY). There's more than that too! The BITCH left me for a (BACKSTABBING) friend,got pregnant by him,then wanted to come BACK TO ME! There are other horror stories concerning custody and all but.....THE END! I thought asian families stuck together through thick and thin and that divorce was almost unheard of (see,now its my turn to ask stuff-LOL)?
Link Posted: 11/19/2002 9:18:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2002 9:20:29 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 11/19/2002 9:19:42 PM EDT
It is a cultural thing. Courts and various government agencies are biased in favor of women. 9 times out of 10, men take it in the ass in a divorce. Some of these cultural differences are one reason why traditional Oriental women are highly prized by many American men. As our society becomes more liberal and feminized, the problem grows worse.
Link Posted: 11/19/2002 10:16:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 12:01:05 AM EDT
I saw one of my brothers friends hugging his kids while him and his wife were going through a divorce and saw him crying like a baby... couldnt understand why. (I was only 19 at the time) Now I know... If I were to split with my wife and I cant see my kids, I would just fall to pieces. They are my life and thats all there is to it. But I digress. The tables are starting to turn but its going to take a VERY long time until its an even battleground in the courts. I cannot believe why some people get divorced. Stupid dumbass reasons yet, the kids are the ones getting screwed up. Here are some of the causes of divorce that I have seen: COMMUNICATION: Open your mouth and talk with each other. And when the other one is talking... for heavens sake LISTEN! FINANCES: You have got to be kidding! MONEY problems are going to screw your marriage up? WORK OVERTIME and you wont have that problem. ME-ISM: This one is my all time favorite. "What about ME?" "What about MY happiness?""I want my life to be all about ME" --- [b]WHAT THE FUH??[/b] Now I do have to say the "Three A's" are hard to work with 1. Abuse 2. Addiction 3. Adultery Simple soutions 1. Keep your hands to yourself 2. Keep your lips off the bong. 3. Keep your dick in your pants.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 8:16:23 AM EDT
Maverick - you ask some good, logical questions. I've wondered the same, but didn't have to deal with that crap in my divorce. We didn't have kids and my ex-wife was/is a lot better off financially than I am. the only way to win: #1 Always marry a woman that makes more money/has a better job than you do. #2 Make sure her family is rich. #3 Don't even think of having kids (if you do, ask for custody and make sure SHE pays child support). <-- (never seen it happen BTW) #4 If you follow all of the above you should be ok in a divorce and only have to pay a little bit (plus lawyer's fees). Divorce is stacked in the woman's favor, I was told that if I didn't have all the documents just right under MO law she could come back 10 years from now and take a percentage of what I made that whole time. It's not fair or right, and always get the best lawyer because you'll either pay for it now or pay x2 or 3 or 10 later to HER.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 8:47:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MaverickMkii: I am currently 19 years old, which means I haven't seen too much of world or life yet, but I don't understand why it seems like when divorce occurs usually husbands take more financial, material, or in some cases, mental responsibilities than wives? From my point of view, it looks like it doesn't matter who starts divorce, but in any event, wives usually get the upper hand except extraordinary situations. I don't think it has to do with whether they "currently have paid job" or not.
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I think it's a cultural holdover from previous times. Like you say below, the trend used to be that the man was the worker, the breadwinner, and the woman was primary caregiver (ie - stay home and raise the kids). In an environment like that, a man divorcing the woman would leave the woman without much recourse. Imagine being raised (now this is many years ago) to pretty much be a homemaker, and then getting dropped at 35. You don't have the skills necessary to make it in a job market, the primary source of income is gone, and you're expected to raise children. As divorce became more common, trends shifted as such to compensate the woman in a divorce, since she often had more to lose. Now with the advent of feminism, woman's individuality, and their entry into the workplace, the balance has shifted. Logistically women are not in the position they used to be....a divorced woman today isn't left with almost no options. The problem then becomes that with this shift toward 'gender equality', if you will, there was no resultant shift towards 'legal equality' when it comes to divorce proceedings. This leaves the woman with legal advantages, if she chooses to employ them. The real kicker....a lot of this is not written in law. It's just the method of the machine, if you will. A small number of states have very equitable laws with regards to divorce....most have a slight slant towards the woman. Another problem is that a lot of men get 'blindsided' with divorce. They want to try and save the marriage, and still feel strongly for their partner. Sometimes things work out, often they don't. Men will just go along with proceedings for numerous reasons...they don't want a long protracted fight, they don't want to do what needs to be done in order to protect themselves (let's face it...fighting a divorce requires tactics that are downright ugly)....
Also, even if husband has done nothing too much wrong, wives are usually be able to take children when they divorce. Does law say that wives can raise children better than husbands? I can understand that... but from my view, I see many qualifiable husbands, especially in United States, since major portion of husbands take care or aid houseworks daily. In South Korea, where I originally came from, the old style trend and customs generally indicate that husbands go out to work and wives stay home and take care of houseworks and children. Of course, previous statement no longer holds ground because after 1970s or so, many wives got their jobs and nowadays we can frequently see both parents working, and taking care of themselves, which means they help two-ways.
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Again, cultural holdover. Women are generally provided with more legal weight with regards to child matters since the woman is traditionally (but not always legally) held to be the primary care-giver, and have the closest 'bond' to the child. Another instance of legal mores not following a shift in cultural mores. More and more men are active in their child's upbringing, with some even taking over full-time care. Rarely does it give them legal weight. It's basically one giant system in need of overhaul. Ten years ago, the idea of 'father's rights groups' would be somewhat rare...now they're growing in prominence. Which leads to another issue...the feminist movement. Not the 'woman's equality' movement, the 'men are evil pigs who deserve castration and death' movement. They've been entrenched in these battles for MANY years, and go completely RABID at the thought of according more rights to husbands/fathers. They're not easy to take on. Another problem is this...you'll notice in MANY threads here that it is advised that if a wife is thinking/planning divorce but hasn't filed it, the man should definitely file first. While not always legally evident, more weight is given to the case of the person who files first. Women do out so well because they file first, cite numerous issues, and of course get a restraining order.
Again, I'm not offending any one and I might be an ignorant @$$hole who doesn't understand cultural values of United States, but I just wanted to logically think about it. I will be appreciated if you folks could please share them.
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Then I gues I'm an ignorant @$$hole as well. I've live here all my life and even I don't understand some cultural values here... It's funny. I relate these horror stories to my mother (I think she's worried that I'm not dating much), and yesterday she told me flat out that if she were a guy, she'd NEVER get married without a clear cut pre-nup agreement. To put it in perspective, she's about as devout a Catholic as you can get, and pre-nups are a No-No for us.....me, fuck it. I'll date, I'll shop, I'll enjoy the scenery...but marriage...no way in hell.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 10:01:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: Frankly I rarely see a man fight for custody of his children, he leaves that to the Mrs. (or the ex-mrs. I guess) then crabs about having to pay child support & yes guys can win custody fights, although it ain't easy-there is no legal presumption in favor of women any more. Okay well I'll be going now [peep] We need a "run like hell" smiley. [;)]
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I REALLY did want custody of my son.It was much more to me than REVENGE. At the time I had a well paying job w/bennies(insurance too), supportive family and friends,PLUS the belief in myself that I could raise him and provide for him PROPERLY!! My son DID NOT DESERVE to have this happen to him. It wasn't his fault,it was my (ex)wife's fault.She was unable to keep her legs closed! I used to joke with her and say that I wanted a "tramp in bed,and a lady in public" . Apparently she didn't know when to START one and STOP the other!LOL I knew from the beginning of our separation what problems and challenges my son would have. I come from a broken family myself.My parents split in 1965,divorced(final decree)1967,and in 1965 I was put in a Catholic military school at 8 yrs old and graduated at 15 in 1972. Quite a few of the "students" I was there with came from dysfunctional homes. The scholastic part of school was run by NUNS who could put "Dirty Harry" to shame with the quickness "on the draw" with metal rulers as they cracked you upside the head! The military part was run by a retired career MARINE (he started in '67 or '68-prior to him was Army)veteran (Korea and VN).At one time I think he had been a DI at PI. I did learn a bunch of things,but I don't know if it was worth it. There was NO WAY in hell that I was going to have my son have a similar fate with being placed "SOMEWHERE"! From what I know about other divorces,I consider myself fortunate! I keep in contact on a regular basis with my son ("she" moved south when he was 10)and I make sure he understands that if he just wants to BS,needs advice,or whatever 24/7 ,I am there. Sorry about ramblin' on about this,but sometimes things need to be said. I wish ALL MEMBERS a safe (and happy)HOLIDAY SEASON!!
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 10:21:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 10:27:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Magic: Your average American Woman is meaner than your average American Man.
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Not man, snake.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 10:29:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Shadowblade:
Originally Posted By CrazyIrishman: The BITCH left me for a (BACKSTABBING) friend,got pregnant by him,then wanted to come BACK TO ME!
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Sounds too familiar...
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Lotta that going around. Someone outhta hire Sam Spade to solve this mystery.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 10:34:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DrFrige: FINANCES: You have got to be kidding! MONEY problems are going to screw your marriage up? WORK OVERTIME and you wont have that problem. That works to a point, but I think fiscal responsibility is a lot better. This overtime business can get out of hand pretty fast if both parties don't spend responsibly. Catch-22: divorced over financial woes OR divorced because you're never home. I see a LOT of this in my line of work.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 10:38:54 AM EDT
it has to do with the fact that all women are satan incarnate. their sole purpose in life is to make us hate them. ian
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 10:55:43 AM EDT
young people nowadays get married for all the wrong reasons.I have 4 close friends who were married within the last 10 years, all are dovirced and on 2nd or 3 rd marriages.ive spent time with them and i noticed that they never brought the significant other up or why they are marrying that person.they did talk of the bachelor party and fancy wedding dress, but never quite explained when I asked WHY they were marrying that person.[:(] the divorce rate in america is astrnomical and its very sad as the kids are the ones who are suffering. they have no fiscal responsibility, nor are they mature enough to support each other emotionally. ive been yoked for 12 years, while my marriage hasnt been perfect, it has been stable.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 10:56:14 AM EDT
My mom got the upper hand over my dad.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 5:53:29 PM EDT
But the REAL question is... If an Arkansas couple get divorced, are they still brother and sister?
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 7:05:48 PM EDT
There are only two women in the whole world who are not Satan's personal assistants: your Mom and mine.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 7:23:04 PM EDT
The woman gets her revenge for all the dick she took , now it's your turn ... BEND OVER !!!!
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