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Posted: 11/14/2002 3:12:11 PM EDT
any news on this baby?
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 3:16:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 3:19:46 PM EDT
I just heard a blurb on the radio (WISN in milwaukee) but didn't catch much of it. Seems the banned on concealed carry is being challenged as against the state's constitutional rkba amendment.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 4:44:12 PM EDT
I probably heard the same blurb... Mark Belling (1130 AM) is predicting that the ban on CCW will be lifted. I hope he's right...
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 5:06:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VanBo: I probably heard the same blurb... Mark Belling (1130 AM) is predicting that the ban on CCW will be lifted. I hope he's right...
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That's the one. I can only listen to so much of that guy though, he's kind of a jackass.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 6:15:17 PM EDT
If you want to listen to today's oral arguments, they're [url=http://www.courts.state.wi.us/supreme/scoa.asp?docket_number=&begin_date=11-14-2002&end_date=11-14-2002&party_name=&SortBy=date]here[/url]. It's the Hamdan and Cole cases. I think the Real Audio files are about an hour each.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 6:34:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2002 6:37:04 PM EDT by Corey]
I was there during the oral arguments. I'll post details later, maybe tomorrow (watching History Channel M16 right now). But, IMHO, the question is not whether sec. 941.23 Stats. is unconstitutional, but what to do with it. I was firmly prepared to walk out of the chambers today with my head hanging thinking that we're screwed, but using words like "absurd" and reference to 941.23 "swallowing the constitutional amendment" were common. If you're going to listen to either argument, listen to Hamden. His attorney played it safe to his clients benefit, but our detriment (proper tactics from Hamden's perspective). But I think the WI SCt. sees the obvious problems. I believe that SOMETHING GOOD will come out of these decisions for concealed carry in WI. I DO NOT think that the status quo will be maintained. Governor elect Jim "gun grabber" Doyle might think that the Personal Protection Act is mild compared to the results of these cases.... More later, but listen to the opinions. EDITED to say that even the solution proposed by Hamden's attorney (pro bono from a big WI firm) would pretty much allow unfettered concealed carry, though you'd have a defense in front of a jury (i.e., you could still get charged).
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 7:25:51 PM EDT
Corey, you really need to fill me in on this. I need a professional opinion that is only slightly skewed in my direction. Give me a call when you get the chance. I tried to download the arguements but get: [i]Error! The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.[/i]
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 7:35:51 PM EDT
It made the Journal Sentinel (and I accidentally started a clone-topic (obligatory Please-restore-search-plug)): [url]http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/nov02/95761.asp[/url] Well, if they overturn the law, we'll have Vermont-style carry (just not in cars. That gets you a $100 fine (hunting violation), but that law could be next), and I'm guessing the Legislature (which almost passed CCW last session, if not for one perticular crooked Senator) will try and use this to get a permit-based system out of Governor 'Grabber' Doyle... If not, we have a long wait for CCW (like untill Doyle leaves office)...
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 7:37:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2002 7:47:07 PM EDT by Corey]
Muad: Wanted to call you tonight but etc. happened. I'm being 110% objective when I say that I don't think the WI SCt. will let 941.23 stand [EDITED to add "as is"] in light of the RKBA amendment. I had 4 Justices (out of 7) clearly railing against 941.23. At least 2 others were also voicing disatisfaction. I say (as I've said before) these cases -- particularly with Hamden's facts -- will be nothing but good news for legal CCW in WI. Heck, today they were talking about CCW violation "technicalities" and everyone seemed to be in agreement that Hamden's facts pretty much fit the bill of the case that the prosecutors should have let go. I'll have to pull out my notes tomorrow for quotes, but I'm out for the night. EDITED to add that a possibility for this case could involve a jury instruction on 941.23 that says it's not illegal if: 1. It's for a stated purpose in the RKBA statute (that's easy, "defense" or "security" or "hunting" etc.); 2. It's for a lawful purpose (i.e., you can't lawfully conceal a handgun to protect yourself while robbing a bank, so don't rob banks -- duh); and 3. A reasonable person in your position would think that he/she was in danger to justify the need for #1 (probably the toughest of the three). But this is better than nothing and may get Doyle to prefer the certainty of shall-issue permits versus the uncertaintly of random jury verdicts. The Republican pro-RKBA Senate and Assembly in WI will certainly help this.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 7:47:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2002 7:51:33 PM EDT by Dave_A]
Originally Posted By Corey: I'm being 110% objective when I say that I don't think the WI SCt. will let 941.23 stand in light of the RKBA amendment.
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Hope you're right... Doyle's gonna be pissed bigtime... I just hope this same ammendment keeps him from banning all guns capable of firing more than 1 shot without reloading (which he tried to get done following 9/11, hidden in a 'counter-terror' bill). Of course, the legislature isn't exactly anti-gun right now, so that may hold off any grab-attempts anyhow...
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