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Posted: 11/12/2002 3:19:28 PM EDT
Got a call frommy frantic wife today...her brakes had gone out! OH SHIT I though! She wasn't in an accident, which was good, but she had our son with her when it happened. I no sooner than hang up when a friend of ours walks into my office with Jonathan. Cool, he's okay and Erica's doing better. I get to her and the car and wait 45 minutes for the tow truck to show up and ride to Pep Boys. 21/2 hours later the "brakes are fine, we don't know why the light is on, but look at this". Seems the positive battery cable bolt had snapped off inside the battery and the cable was just stuck in there. $63.50 later and all was well. The light was out, and they thought it was a false signal from the loose battery cable. Ipaid the bill and got in the car....and the fucking light was still on! I went back inside and they told me to bring it back around. No problem, I hop in the car turn it on and guess what the light's off! So I went back in and said never mind it's off. The diagnosis was that one of the ABS sensors was going bad..."okay how much?" "That's a dealer only item" Fuck, here we go again. I got back in the car, the light was on again so I drove the POS home like that. Had an interesting experience with the brakes locking up as it's raining here. SO my question is how much should I expect to get raped for by the dealer? PONY_DRIVER P.S. If it wasn't in my wife's name I'd have traded the damn thing in right there!
Link Posted: 11/12/2002 3:25:02 PM EDT
Always hated ABS brakes, they caused me to get in an accident in '94. Had a brand new rental car, less than 100 miles, was returning it and coming to a routine stop light. It was rainy out, and when I put the brakes on, nothing happened, as the sensors that deactivate the brake were overly sensitive in rain and decided not to honor my wish to slow down.(common problem on early production at least) I cruised into another guy at under 5mph. Though his bumper didn't even get dented, he got out and started complaining about his back and how he needs an accident report so he can sue me. Fun stuff... Of course the rental car place took my complaint but "lost" any record of me saying the brakes were bad when the other guys lawyers called. Took a couple years to clear up.
Link Posted: 11/12/2002 4:02:52 PM EDT
PONY_DRIVER, GM might only sale the part in an "assembly." When you talk to their mechanic or service rep, pay attention to what part he says it needs. You might be able to buy that single part much cheaper from someone else if you find-out what it is exactly. My great-nephew has a 2000 Corvette that had an ABS problem, and it's next to impossible to find a dealer that will service them. They all give the same dance about how GM doesn't pay them enough for labor for warranty work to make it worth their while. The dealer wanted about $2K cash up front for the "assembly," but since he paid attention while the mechanic was talking to the service manager, he was able to buy that one part for a junk yard. It saved him nearly $2,000. Insert same story concerning a part for the headlights. GM sells it only in a very expensive assembly, but if you know what you're doing, you can find the part seperately. Ditto a part for the door panel he had to buy. Ditto the key switch for the airbag. Ditto the transfer pump (sends gas from one tank to the other one). Ditto the reverse lock-out solenoid. There's probably more he's had to replace on his 2.5 year-old car that I'm forgetting. I'd guess they probably do the same junk with the Crapolier.z
Link Posted: 11/12/2002 4:26:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2002 4:29:18 PM EDT by MillerSHO]
If you want good deals on OEM chevy parts, look here. [url]http://gmpartsdirect.com/[/url] Usually 50% off dealer parts. And there OEM parts, so a chevy dealership couldn't couldn't bitch, cause there the same parts!! I'm glad your wife is OK!! Edited to say: Just because a part is not showing up on the website, doesn't mean they don't carry it, email them.
Link Posted: 11/12/2002 5:50:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2002 5:55:33 PM EDT by PONY_DRIVER]
lemme tell you the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey would say, about this steaming pile of dog shit GM calls a car. !st it started life out as a rental car (wife had it before we met). At 36,000 miles the brakes were down to metal( expected as my wifes drives like a maniac) no prob...replace the brakes. Then it developes a "cough" you'd be driving at a constant speed (35mph, common in cities) and it would chug chug chuh chuh chuh stomp on the gas nd it made lots of noise, but didn't cough any more. Problem...AC Delco plugs (absolute pieces of shit...Chevy owns them lock stock and barrel) 100,000 mile plugs were BLACK, burnt, and generally NASTY. the electrode was burned all the way down, and there was buildup on the ground. Autolite plugs fixed that...for a little while. On a 200 mile trip home the check engine light comes on. Turns out that the #3 plug wire was arcing against the block...factory defect replaced free of cost. Then it stars overheating...NO COOLANT at all. Light never came on until it was almost too late. The coolant fan had gone out, and Cheby wanted $123.37 JUST FOR THE ELECTRIC FAN! $22 bucks at Auto Zone + $8 for "Dexcool" approved coolant and a few hours later all was better. The rotors warped somewhere along the line (common on Crapoliers with ABS). Chevy also wanted $112 for a STEEL WHEEL, no brushed aluminum, no cast aluminim, just a plain black steel wheel...ended up beating the damn thing back into shape with a tire iron. Can you se why I'm fed up with GM? PONY_DRIVER EDIT: Thanks for the info guys!
Link Posted: 11/12/2002 5:58:19 PM EDT
Normally if a sensor dies the ABS shuts off and doesn't affect the braking at all. My light has been on for over a year now, and the car has been to 2 open track days with no loss of braking at all! In the Subarus we pull the ABS fuse to get a stiffer brake pedal and better feel. I'd teach the wife how to drive with out the mechanical assistance. As always that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Link Posted: 11/12/2002 6:23:03 PM EDT
Pure_Energy, I know hwat you're saying, but I'm not about to let my wife and son rife around in a POS car with less than adequate brakes. I don't mind driving it myself, but not her/them. I don't think that htey actually "went out", that's just what se said. The first think that I did was pop the hood and check the fluid level as I've seen brake lines break before. The fluid was fine. She couldn't tell me whetet the pedal went to the floor (which I will say it didn't), but it "sounded like grape nuts"...go figure, break light comes on, brakes make a crunching noise and she say's it sounds like grape nuts. I dunno I wasn't there. I think the brakes just locked up a little or something. I'll have it checked out again tomorrow, but I'm just fed up with this car. PONY_DRIVER
Link Posted: 11/12/2002 7:37:35 PM EDT
BTT PONY_DRIVER
Link Posted: 11/12/2002 9:27:12 PM EDT
Normally if a sensor dies the ABS shuts off and doesn't affect the braking at all.
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That's what I was thinking, too. You end up with a car that has all the braking performance of any similar vehicle built before the late 80's. Nothing shabby about that. You're not likely to even notice any difference — It might actually perform better that way under some circumstances. As a side note, GM is now toying with the idea of going back to making ABS optional on many models. WAY too much complexity for any (debatable) benefit gained.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 11:54:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2002 11:54:32 AM EDT by ba291]
My wife has the same car in the "sunfire" version. I would like to fire it straight into the sun.... Anyway, she had a similar problem with her brakes once. I was actually driving the car. Have you noticed the slight "crunching" noise that happens everytime you start the car? That is what it sounded like when they failed on us. The peddle almost went to the floor and the car did not slow down. It was raining and it felt like they didn't even try to work. When I pumped and slammed them, they locked up. Hmm, antilock brakes locking all four wheels.. thought that was what ABS was supposed to prevent. Took it to the dealer and they said they couldn't find a plroblem. The car hasn't done it since, but it knows its days are numbered. The car has not been abused and it has had numerous other problems: -Rotors warped at about 35000 miles - changed them and brakes -Rotors and pads now average 10-15000 miles before they wear out or warp. Last time I changed them I got a few stitches when the damn car bit me. I almost shot it... -Driver side window motor went out. Took a day to fix that fucker. Had to drill out like 10-12 rivets and replace with screws. -Emer brake adjusted 5 times, still doesn't work -Headlight switch went bad. $250 -Started stalling - bad vacuum line, $250 after I couldn't find the problem myself -Water pump going out. 8 hour fix by the "book time"... Fuck it, only leaks a little... I hate that car and all GMs because of it. Maybe it's just the cheap ones but I will never give GM another dime of our money.... BTW, she bought it before we married. I tried to warn her but, "we were on a break" and she got even with me by buying a Pontiac.....
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 1:24:12 PM EDT
I have a chey s-10 with abs. when one of the front wheels rolls ove bumps like pot hole patches, that brake does not work but the other still does and tends to want to steer you that way. If one is braking and both front wheels encounter bumps the brakes fail for a second. The dealers have trained themselves to pretend to not hear those types of complaints and change the subject.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 3:55:47 PM EDT
I have those same problems Leadbutt. Caused me to get in a wreck last year.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 3:58:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2002 4:00:23 PM EDT by PONY_DRIVER]
Originally Posted By ba291: My wife has the same car in the "sunfire" version. I would like to fire it straight into the sun.... Anyway, she had a similar problem with her brakes once. I was actually driving the car. Have you noticed the slight "crunching" noise that happens everytime you start the car? That is what it sounded like when they failed on us. The peddle almost went to the floor and the car did not slow down. It was raining and it felt like they didn't even try to work. When I pumped and slammed them, they locked up. Hmm, antilock brakes locking all four wheels.. thought that was what ABS was supposed to prevent. Took it to the dealer and they said they couldn't find a plroblem. The car hasn't done it since, but it knows its days are numbered. The car has not been abused and it has had numerous other problems: -Rotors warped at about 35000 miles - changed them and brakes -Rotors and pads now average 10-15000 miles before they wear out or warp. Last time I changed them I got a few stitches when the damn car bit me. I almost shot it... -Driver side window motor went out. Took a day to fix that fucker. Had to drill out like 10-12 rivets and replace with screws. -Emer brake adjusted 5 times, still doesn't work -Headlight switch went bad. $250 -Started stalling - bad vacuum line, $250 after I couldn't find the problem myself -Water pump going out. 8 hour fix by the "book time"... Fuck it, only leaks a little... I hate that car and all GMs because of it. Maybe it's just the cheap ones but I will never give GM another dime of our money.... BTW, she bought it before we married. I tried to warn her but, "we were on a break" and she got even with me by buying a Pontiac.....
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Dude, you could be my twin in a near parallel universe! The brakes were shot at 36,000 miles, rotors warped etc. (A MSgt that I work with said his crapolier warped rotors every 15k miles...he bought a Ford W/O ABS) Forgot until you mentioned the window...she has manual window cranks, which normally work fine...the devil in the details is that you need the window to [B]be on the track[/B]! Aside from Saturn GM can kiss MMFWA! Oh yeah the update... Went to the Chebby dealer this am, the guy was a total dick. Long story short the sensor is $113 L or R side, the diagnosis is at least $80. WTF? $80 to tell me what's wrong with the piece of shit your company calls a car? Then they couldn't get to it today, come back later in the week! GM SUCKS. EDIT: The brakes feel totally different now. PONY_DRIVER
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 4:20:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER: lemme tell you the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey would say, about this steaming pile of dog shit GM calls a car. !st it started life out as a rental car (wife had it before we met). At 36,000 miles the brakes were down to metal( expected as my wifes drives like a maniac) no prob...replace the brakes. Then it developes a "cough" you'd be driving at a constant speed (35mph, common in cities) and it would chug chug chuh chuh chuh stomp on the gas nd it made lots of noise, but didn't cough any more. Problem...AC Delco plugs (absolute pieces of shit...Chevy owns them lock stock and barrel) 100,000 mile plugs were BLACK, burnt, and generally NASTY. the electrode was burned all the way down, and there was buildup on the ground. Autolite plugs fixed that...for a little while. On a 200 mile trip home the check engine light comes on. Turns out that the #3 plug wire was arcing against the block...factory defect replaced free of cost. Then it stars overheating...NO COOLANT at all. Light never came on until it was almost too late. The coolant fan had gone out, and Cheby wanted $123.37 JUST FOR THE ELECTRIC FAN! $22 bucks at Auto Zone + $8 for "Dexcool" approved coolant and a few hours later all was better. The rotors warped somewhere along the line (common on Crapoliers with ABS). Chevy also wanted $112 for a STEEL WHEEL, no brushed aluminum, no cast aluminim, just a plain black steel wheel...ended up beating the damn thing back into shape with a tire iron. Can you se why I'm fed up with GM? PONY_DRIVER EDIT: Thanks for the info guys!
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My sister has the same car, and it was too a rental. Her's has done very well. But, sometimes it will chug just like what you explained. It does have an issue were all of sudden, it will chug when going up hills. It only does it once a month though. Weird stuff.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 4:31:32 PM EDT
Tell her to check the plugs and wires. Our #3 plug wire had a bunch of grey marks on it from where it had been arcing against the block. AC DELCO parts suck, and that's what Chevy puts in their cars. PONY_DRIVER
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 4:51:51 PM EDT
Moral of the story...you want a good car, buy yourself a Nissan, Honda or Toyota and you can kiss problems like this goodbye! I hate American cars for their maintenance. I'd rather buy a jap car that'll ensure years of trouble free driving, than buy an American car that I can't trust or will cost a bundle to keep on the road. Yeah, I know my preference will not be popular, but until you've owned a jap car from one of these 3, you don't know how stress free a car can be!
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 5:38:55 PM EDT
I really hate to piss in everyones Wheaties about this, but auto manufactures actually make very few of their parts. Regardless of what make vehicle you drive your parts probably come from a vendor. I work for an OEM supplier, Bosch Braking Systems, and at our plant we make brakes and Corner Modules for for Ford, GM, and DC. If you drive a Dodge Durango, Ford Explorer, Saturn VUE, Dodge Dakota, Ford 150, Chevy Blazer, or Lincoln Navigator just to name a few you are riding on Bosch wheel end parts. All these and more are made in the same plant side by side by the same people. If something goes wrong you'll blame the auto maker, but in reality they just put the parts from thousands of suppliers together. I personally don'y buy into the FORD vs Chevy vs DC thing. They all do their best to build quality products and to get your money. That's how simple it is.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 6:16:50 PM EDT
"Buy a Jap car,bla bla bla"[rolleyes] #1:You paied $63.50 for a $6.95 battery cable #2: it's IMPOSSIBLE for any part of you ABS sys to lock up the brakes or cause them to fail. #3:You can't find a dealer that will service ABS because 99% of the time it's in the owner's head. What you need to do is find out who had worked on the car and if you did not buy it new who had it before you. Battery cable's,odd lights coming on brake failure somebody that should not be under the hood had been and if this is not the first time you had Pep Boys do work for you start lokking there.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 6:20:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER: it started life out as a rental car (wife had it before we met). At 36,000 miles the brakes were down to metal( expected as my wifes drives like a maniac)
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Did not see this before,just wanted to note how right I was.
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