Just making sure, Hiram. I got a little confused there. I'm not licensed yet but I did go along on a couple of hunts.

Mongo_Mad
you are correct about Curtilage,but any officer or agent that is ordered off your property and has no warrant has to leave ,he has to leave even open feilds if you order him off your property.
The land owned and controled by you is proptected.

Sounds like the guy had probable cause but wasnt a dick about it. Also sounds like some guys here need to loosen their foil.

I like zees game vardens....vere can I get some of zees fine uber men. [img]www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/hitler.gif[/img]

Hiram, what is the NY title and statute number that allows them to remain on private property without a warrant or one of the warrant exceptions? If the statute doesn't exist, then they must leave private property if ordered to by the owner or any employee or agent of the property owner.

www.findlaw.com has a very thorough listing of all laws in the US. Federal and all states. I took the liberty of looking for any such law before I made my last post because I hate to be proven wrong, it makes me feel like an ass. [;D]

Wow, you went through the entire Texas penal code and still had time to post a response tonight?  I've been on the job 4 years, and am still reading new statutes...  I'd like to learn how to read that fast...

I don't know.


This seems like it could set itself up as a situation like a no knock warrent.

IE.

Guy shooting on his own property.

Game Warden comes to investigate, being sneaky like Game Wardens do.

Guy sees movement on his property.

Guy knows nobody should be on his property.

Guy points weapon at movement, and yells warning.

Game Warden shoots guy.


*shrug.

In my non-legal view, if it's my property, he better have a goddamn good reason to be there.

[b]Wow, you went through the entire Texas penal code and still had time to post a response tonight? I've been on the job 4 years, and am still reading new statutes... I'd like to learn how to read that fast...  [/b]

No, I used the search engine. Its entirely possible that i missed any such statute, but I doubt it. If the statute ever did exist, it would probably have been overturned rather quickly as a violation of the 4th amendment.

Tailgate is right here. First of all, you didn't get BUSTED, you got QUESTIONED. There's a hell of a difference.

The game warden IS a LEO, and is supposed to uphold the law. He's SUPPOSED to investigate, if he had not done so, I'd have questioned his ability to do his job.

Your story sounds a bit like "There we were, sitting at my pard's place, shooting our machine guns when this LEO comes up and starts asking me a whole bunch of questions...."

What do you expect? Relativly speaking, there are damned few class 3 weapons out there. For a LEO to hear one being fired is an anomoly. It's suspicious in itself. Of course, it's not ILLEGAL, but it is a tad suspicious, to say the least. It drew the LEOs attention, as it probably should.

From the story, the LEO was halfway decent about things. That's not a bad deal. Some LEOs would not be even 1/2way decent under the circumstances.

Ponyboy, sounds like you did the right thing. They guy was doing his job and it sounds to me like he did it politely.

SPECTRE, what is wrong with you man? Just enjoy giving cops crap? Let me guess, even if the cop saw you kill somebody on your property he should still have to get a warrant because it is [b]your[/b] property. LOL. Chill out man. It is not your constitutional right to be able to use a machinegun without being looked at or questioned by any LEO.

I have had a few encounters with game wardens in Texas.  Only one was an ass.  I was "walked" up on in Victoria County by the GW and his trainee while dove hunting.  My dad and I checked out okay, but my bud did not have his hunter safety course paper on him.  The fellas were cool about it and said just let them have a copy in ten days or retake the course.

I used to hunt with a former GW who operated our lease.  He managed to catch some turkey poachers while I was hunting near him.  So the Gilespie (sp?) GW was called out to us so we could give a description of the violators.  By the way they were caught.

The only ass was a fella that caught one of our guys on the wrong side of a fence while quail huntin in Medina Co.  I remember his name was Fleps.  The hunter did not know he was on the wrong side, was out of sight of those who did, and was after a down bird.  All of us got a serious talking all the while his hand was on his Browning Hi-Power in his belt.  No ID was ever shown, but we did find out that he was a GW, but that happened to be his land and he was off duty.  I just felt that calmness would have better served the day.

If RedGoat reads this, I just closed out four hogs yesturday on my dad's ranch in Goliad with two shots.  Two kills in the morning and two in the afternoon hunt.  I love to wait till they line up!!

Eric the Hun:

Not to put anything on you, but telling me about knowing the local LEOs reminds me of when I first moved in to my present neighborhood. My new neighbor and I decided to go somewhere and do something. I was driving, and obeying the speed limit. He said:

'Speed up. I know all of the cops." I stayed legal. After all, I didn't know ANY of the cops, and I was driving.

Later on I found out he DID know all of the cops:

O'Malley had busted him for DUI.
Thomas had nailed him for domestic violence.
Sanchez had popped him for speeding. Twice.
Lawrence had carted him off for starting a bar fight over a sports bet.
Shea got him for vandalism.
D'Angelo got him for shoplifting.
Ad Nauseum.

Every time someone tells me "Don't worry, I know all the cops", I get the Heebie Jeebies.

(The guy has since moved, thank God!)

Heh-heh-heh! [:D]

You are right, [b]piccolo[/b], there are many, many ways that one can get to be well known to the authorities.

I try to do it the easy way, but I always remember to keep both hands on the steering wheel, in plain sight, until they tell me to do otherwise.

No hits, no runs, no errors.

Eric The(EveryoneGoesHomeSafeAndSound)Hun[>]:)]

I'm with Spectre on this one.

If I had a range on my property and a tango appears out of nowhere with MY gun(s) in his possession, I will consider it a threat to my life and defend myself with deadly force.

Hell, next time there is a Waco, why don't we all bring the feds some beer and hot dogs to cook over the smouldering ruins. I am sure they are nice guys and after all they are just doing their jobs.

That "do you have a warrant crap?"  Dude, you are a dick and I amashamed to have you as a member of this board.  Reread your paragraph and see if you don't come up with the same opinion of yourself.

That said, I have been stopped a couple times by game wardens while shooting on the family ranch.  Hasn't happened in about ten years though.  They just checked to make sure we weren't shooting any game and went on their way.  I personally believe that if you own the land you own the game, but that is not how the law works.  If game wardens are not able to check on private land there would be no way to enforce poaching laws.  Even though I don't agree with it, it makes sense for the current laws.

SPECTRE, we DO need more LEO frends.
This situation went perfect for our side; we are (more of) good people to this GW now. Our guys did good.

SSD

Don't make me have to get a new...

Whoa, whoa, whoa, everyone!

Why all the venom over this little subject matter?

Surely we all support the game laws, do we not?

If we do, then we must necessarily support the reasonable enforcement of those laws.

Period.

That's all. That's all that the original story was about. Some dweeb, newbie (most likely) Game Warden making his first discovery that Texas, like quite a few other states, permits Class 3 weapons in the hands of its citizens.

Maybe he actually knew it, but [b]Ponyboy's[/b] were the first Class 3 he'd ever seen.

At the very worst, this Game Warden was an idiot for directly approaching the sound of gunfire, and exhibited poor knowledge of a subject he really should know something about if he wants to flourish in his career.

You harass [u]too[/u] many wealthy doctors, lawyers, and businessmen playing with their expensive toys and you will very likely be called on the carpet by your superiors and get reeducated fast! I mean, PDQ!

Not saying that this is the way it should be, but it most definitely is the way it is!

Now, this Game Warden has had his first encounter with a civilian and a Class 3 weapon, he will be a better Game Warden in the future.

And he will [u]definitely[/u] not be a further problem for [b]TheRedGoat[/b], by the way that responsible supporters of the RKBA acted!

Alls well that ends well! The [b]RKBA[/b] was advanced today.

You guys did spendidly!

Eric The(Reasonable)Hun[>]:)]

I just hope everyone remembers that those 2 guys in that Miami shoot out and in several incidents at kalifornia ranges, people were MURDERED for their guns.

Unless youre shooting at several game animals.

Or those new super animals like the flying squirrel or electric eel.

He dude, I was telling a fucking story, not bitching about it. Tailgate wasn't even talking to me.


I've got a degree in criminal justice and my sister is an attorney. I don't need things explained to me, thanks anyway.



Actually, my story is supposed to sound like, "we were out shooting and this lunatic GW comes sneaking up through the woods on us instead of driving through the front gate"



So I should always expect LEOs to come sneaking up through the woods on me when I go out shooting? Does this happen to you a lot? Are you from Bizzaro world?



Did I have one bad thing to say about the GW? Go reread my first post again before you start another little tirade....

REALLY?  Thats some weird thinking. You did not even express concern that he was released at all. But you Immediately want to take his firearms away. Thats just crazy!! If a man can legally walk the street he should be free to own firearms. It he is a threat to the public WHY IS HE OUT? If you let him out his debt is paid!! If you cant trust him not to commit murder or rape he should still be locked up. otherwise all rights are restored. If a man commits a crime that warrants punishment for life(stripping his right to bear arms)then he needs to be locked up or put down for good.

Like I said, it irritated me but on the other hand it also saved me from having to carry everything back up from the range. He also seemed a little nervous when he first arrived, which was understandable since he was a little black guy out in nowhere Texas surrounded by a bunch of white guys while investigating reports of machinegun fire.

I'll bet the next time he runs into machineguns he'll act differently.

No, he was pretty careful with them.

Part of what he is talking about is Mattix and Platt who were ultimately killed in a gunfight with the FBI in Miami.

Several of their weapons were obtained by killing people at makeshift ranges near the Everglades and dumping the bodies. For some reason 4 murders sticks in my mind, not sure if I am right on the number.

never underestimate Sneed...

(if you have to ask, don't)

PonyBoy,I think you and the other's handled everything the right way.
It was a good thing it was a GW and not a ninja or your firearms would of disappeared!! LOL

Post from RipMeyer -

REALLY? That's some weird thinking, as well!

Just because the [b]INCARCERATION[/b] portion of a convicted criminal's sentence is [b]OVER[/b], doesn't mean that the remainder of the punishment for the crime ends!

What's the rest of the punishment? Loss of many civil liberties, including, in most states, the right to vote and hold office.

In all states, if the crime was a felony, the convicted criminal loses his right to own and possess firearms.

That is simply part and parcel of the consequences of being convicted of a crime.

Nothing more, nothing less.

There may also be restitution issues, probation issues, continuing restraining orders, continuing reporting requirements, etc.

[b]And what if he's a predator of children?[/b]

When he's released back into society, should his neighbors [u]not[/u] be advised that he is present in their neighborhoods, in order that they may warn their children?

Thankfully, that is NOT the law! Whew!

That may sound reasonable, but it has never been put into practice by the civilized world.

Go figure!

Eric The(Reasonable)Hun[>]:)]

Sooo....

1. A game warden gets to your firing range (which is WITHIN sight of you).

2. The people at the firing line don't notice.

3. He inspects the weapons, then puts them into a box.

4. He walks over to you and this is the first time anyone notices him?????????????????

Yes, through the woods coming from directly downrange of the firing line. And just because something is within sight doesn't mean that you're looking at it.



No, they all noticed him and even talked to him.



No, two guns and the suppressor were already in the case. The rifle was sitting on the table cooling off. He just grabbed the case and the rifle based upon the conversation with the people on the range that those were the machineguns.



No, this was the first time that I, TheRedGoat or Jarhead noticed him. He had already had contact with 5 other people.

Ok, so this game warden was responding to a complaint.....  a complaint of what ?? poaching or other game warden related stuff or was he responding to a complaint about "full auto fire" ??  If it was for poaching, why was'nt he looking for a dead animal instead of a lot of FA weapons ?  If it was for FA fire, why did'nt he call the PROPER authorities and let them handle it ??  If it was for FA fire, what kind of MORON game warden would go into an unknown situation, ALONE, when reports of FULL AUTO FIRE had been reported and grab someones weapons and then approach the possible "bad guys" with their weapons.  Not too bright there elmer fudd.
Why has this "neighbor" never been charged with wasting taxpayer money by filing false and obviously vindictive reports ??
I am in no way faulting what those there did. I think what you did and how you responded to this "game warden" was probably the best respone you could give in that situation.
My problem with this whole mess is yet another area where our rights have been shit on and I got the impression from the original statement that no one there really felt what was done there was wrong.

Man, you think game wardens can't go on private property?

They can in all the states I've hunted in.

Your charming personality will probably work wonders for you when you tell him to get lost [:d]

Naw, [b]Spectre[/b], there was nothing wrong done by any of our guys, and the newbie (?) Game Warden was really not that much of a problem.

Even when we fire full auto at the Hun Farm, it would not surprise me, nor would it bother me, if either the Sheriff or the Games Warden came to the Farm to investigate!

They want to shoot full auto, too! [:D]

Besides, unless they know that it's me out at the Farm, I [u]want[/u] them to investigate [u]any[/u] gunshots they hear coming from the Farm.

Maybe I should post my own story of my run in with some poachers on the Hun Farm to put these issues in perspective...

Shall I regale you with my tale?

Have you heard it before? Let me know!

Eric The(Loquacious)Hun[>]:)]

I dunno about Texas, but in alot of places the sheriff wont respond compaints about shooting, they will sent out the GW to investigate and to make neighbors happy.  

Especially during the hunting seasons.

Game Warden stuff, usually includes violations like FA hunting, and other firearm related stufff. I've been told I can't "plink" with FMJ during hunting season, since the DNR doesn't allow it for hunting.



Well he might have considered that, but if you think you have FA poachers, do you go to what the were shooting at, and look for dead game, or go to where the guns are. It's a tactical question, also FA would be illegal for hunting so getting to the guns may prove PART of a violation.



C'mon now, have you really though about that? What kind of person goes into the woods armed with a handgun to check people carrying long guns to see if they have the proper permits? Game Wardens. Most everyone they meet will be armed, knives, guns, etc. and they generally work alone.  



Filing a false report? "I hear gunfire". The cops show up and voila, gunfire. So it's not false.

Vindictive reports, it would be real hard to prove a persons intentions in calling the police.

Part of the probelem is that the police are very reluctant to stop responding to calls. I think you can guess why. If the receive 20 unfounded calls and then decide not to respond, and the 25th call is something sisnister.... Guess what, lawsuit for dereliction of duty or something similar.

Just like the sniper case, the car's registration had been run something like 10 times and stopped 3 times. Wonder if the officers that did that are feeling the heat for not stopping the rampage sooner, even though they aren't psychic?

There's only 2 things, police work wise, that can get you sued. Any action you decide to take, or any action you decide not to take. Other than that you are home free.  



The 4th Amendment, The right of the people to be secure in their [red]persons, houses, papers, and effects, [/red]against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

It doesn't say open fields, roads, public buildings. The 4th has generally said that your most "secure" thing is your "person". Did the warden search, or frisk, any of the people involved? Seems like he wasn't intrusive there.

Did he enter a house? nope. He entered an open field. Open fields, especially fields used commercially have way less protection than other places because of their open nature.

The protections are most sacred for a person, and a residence. Other things, like cars or commercial type buildings, esp. ones held open to the public have less protection. Sorry if that bothers you but that is how it is.

Not unless its a shotgun. A game warden in TX told me I can have as many handgun or rifle rounds in my gun as I want.

To expound on your point, in Texas a SHOTGUN is limited to three shot capactiy ONLY when hunting migratory game birds.  Rest of the time you can have as many rounds as you want.  Was shooting last weekend with a friend whose Benelli holds thirteen.  RIFLE and PISTOL are unlimited.

Yep!

I would have a huge problem with a LEO,GW touching my guns, investigation or not.


I would asked him why he was sneaking around?
Investigation or not.

I agree 100% with Spectre.


Just my $.03