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You say this, but nothing in the Greek translation makes any point as to whether or not the higher powers were spiritual or earthly.  That is just your personal interpretation...really just wishful thinking, nothing more.

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The "render unto Caesar" quote addresses the issue of taxation most directly and no one here has been able to counter it.

Jesus on Taxes: Nothing is (Rightly) Caesar's!

The story of Jesus commanding us to give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's (Matt. 22:15-22; Mark 12:13-17; Luke 20:20-26) is commonly misrepresented as His commanding us to give to Caesar the denari which he asks for (i.e., to pay taxes to government) as--it is assumed--the denari are Caesar's, being that they have Caesar's image and name on them. But Jesus never said that this was so! What Jesus did say though was an ingenious case of rhetorical misdirection to avoid being immediately arrested, which would have interfered with Old Testament prophecy of His betrayal as well as His own previous predictions of betrayal.

When the Pharisees asked Him whether or not it is lawful to pay taxes to Caesar they did so as a ruse in the hopes of being able to either have Him arrested as a rebel by the Roman authorities or to have Him discredited in the eyes of His followers. At this time in Israel's history it was an occupied territory of the Roman Empire, and taxes--which were being used to support this occupation--were much hated by the mass of the common Jews. Thus, this question was a clever Catch-22 posed to Jesus by the Pharisees: if Jesus answered that it is not lawful then the Pharisees would have Him put away, but if He answered that it is lawful then He would appear to be supporting the subjection of the Jewish people by a foreign power. Luke 20:20 makes the Pharisees' intent in asking this question quite clear:

So they watched Him, and sent spies who pretended to be righteous, that they might seize on His words, in order to deliver Him to the power and the authority of the governor.

Thus, Jesus was not free to answer in just any casual manner. Of the Scripture prophecies which would have gone unfulfilled had He answered that it was fine to decline paying taxes and been arrested because of it are the betrayal by Judas (Psalm 41:9; Zech. 11:12,13), and His betrayer replaced (Psalm 109:8--see Acts 1:20); see also Acts 1:15-26 and Psalm 69:25. Here is a quote from Peter on this matter from Acts 1:16:

"Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus."

In Matt. 26:54,56 and Mark 14:49 Jesus testifies to this exact same thing after He was betrayed by Judas. As well, Jesus Himself twice foretold of His betrayal before He was asked the question on taxes--see Matt. 17:22; 20:18; Mark 9:31; 10:33; and Luke 9:44; 19:31. See also John 13:18-30, which testifies to the necessity of the fulfillment of Psalm 41:9, as Jesus here foretells of His betrayal by Judas.

In addition, it appears that the only reason Jesus paid the temple tax (and by supernatural means at that) as told in Matt. 17:24-27 was so as not to stir up trouble which would have interfered with the fulfillment of Old Testament Scripture and Jesus's previous prediction of His betrayal as told in Matt. 17:22--neither of which would have been fulfilled had Jesus not paid the tax and been arrested because of it. Jesus Himself supports this view when He said of it "Nevertheless, lest we offend them . . ." (NKJV), which can also be translated "But we don't want to cause trouble" (CEV). He said this after in effect saying that those who pay customs and taxes are not free (v. 25,26)--yet one reason Jesus came was to call us to liberty (Luke 4:18; Gal. 4:7; 5:1,13,14; 1 Cor. 7:23; 2 Cor. 3:17; James 1:25; 2:12).

It should be remembered in all of this that it was Jesus Himself who told us "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves." (Matt. 10:16). Jesus was being wise as a serpent as He never told us to pay taxes to Caesar, of which He could have done and still fulfilled Scripture and His previous predictions of betrayal. But the one thing He couldn't have told people was that it was okay not to pay taxes as He would have been arrested on the spot, and Scripture and His predictions of betrayal would have gone unfulfilled. Yet the most important thing in all this is what Jesus did not say. Jesus never said that all or any of the denari were Caesar's! Jesus simply said "Give to Caesar that which is Caesar's." But this just begs the question, What is Caesar's? Simply because the denari have Caesar's name and image on them no more make them his than one carving their name into the back of a stolen TV set makes it theirs. Yet everything Caesar has has been taken by theft and extortion, therefore nothing is rightly his.

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income redistribution? (communism socialism, whatever)

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Liberty86??

I want that book. Or those books???
Are they available online, or did you buy them. What are the titles, where???

That level of crossrefrencing and the dictionary is very deep.

???

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I think Jesus would say that most of us are missing the point with the question. Jesus was obviously less concerned with how the government acted than with how we, as individuals treated each other.

What would Jesus say about some of the bashing that has been going on in this lamentable thread?

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[red]Matt 23;32  Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33  Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 ¶ Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35  That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36  Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.[/red]

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Mmmm, yes,

Matt 23 deals with the pharisees and other hypocrites who put small matters ahead of more important:

[red]Matt 23:23

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. It is these you ought to have practiced without neglecting the others. [/red]

So, how does your quote apply to my original question regarding the bashing in this thread?

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And who were the Sadducees and Pharisees if not unbelievers?? He is speaking to all scoffers...

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You really should learn how to calm down. I knew a guy, who like you, was angry at the world. He was in such a high state of stress and hostility 24/7 he got an ulcer before turning 30, then a heart attack at 33. Now he has to take meds the rest of his life and avoid all confrontations or risk blowing another gasket. No one really enjoyed being around him when he was healthy and didn't really give him any sympathy when he got all messed up. I am asking you as a friend, don't end up like him.

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It is actually very easy to counter it. Question: What exactly is Caesar's? NOTHING!!  Hence, there is NOTHING to render unto Caesar, because NOTHING is Ceasar's.

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Rik,

I have read alot of your posts on religious topics and just want to let you know that just because you believe what you say does not make it fact.

You are a very devout athiest and I'm afraid your faith is clouding your judgemnet,ask your self if it's you and a small handfull of others against everybody eles,as it often is maybe it's you.

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Thanks for your "concern."  However since I am 36 and in perfect health and have plenty of good friends IN REAL LIFE (where normal people spend most of their time, unlike yourself), I will give your suggestion all the consideration it deserves: none.

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This was also tried in Utah by the early Mormons.  They called it the United Order, I think.

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Of course you're wrong in just about everything you posted.
1)I am not devout nor am I an atheist.  Actually I have gotten into arguments with atheists who feel that I, as an agnostic, am too "wishy-washy."
2)I have never said that my belief makes anything a fact.  I have merely argued against those that DO state this.  If you had TRULY read what I wrote, you would know this.
3)I have no faith, so it can't cloud my judgement.
4)I would ask myself "if it's you and a small handfull of others against everybody eles,as it often is maybe it's you" but I have no idea what the hell that means.

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Just think of my advice like the Ghost of Christmas Yet-To-Be, and don't end up like the non-repentant version of Ebeneezer Scrooge.

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I'm sorry but I don't buy the agnostic line,this is a black and white issue.

So since we know that two plus two always makes four, and oak trees always make oak trees, and apple trees always make more apple trees, then  you can't believe that complex protines can evolve into human beings typing messages back and forth on the internet without a external changing force.

An agnostic believes that this is possible, but he needs more evidence. An athiest believes that there is no evidence. But both are wrong because two plus two is always four although the only evidence I have to proove it is that I logically deduce that two plus two more is now a new number different from the third.

Now I know that the question of God is a lot more complex than basic Kindergarden math, but the simple logical principles that non-believers  use to argue nonsence never change. I could argue that two plus two equals three remainder of one all day long, but it is only a matter of time before people start to wonder what it is that I have against four.

Quoted:Whether or not there is a creative being, life evolved. We know this happened, there is no doubt whatsoever.

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There is much doubt.

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Instead I will think of your advice like a bit of dogshit I accidentally stepped in and will wipe off my virtual shoe as quickly as possible.

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You do seem to have quite a bit of stored hostility. Many people use anger as a defensive mechanism when deep emotional trauma surfaces. If you need someone to talk to, I am willing to listen.

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Wow, I have never seen quite so illogical a take on that verse.  Perhaps if you read it sometime you will note where Jesus asks whose image is on the coin.

It's very plain what the verse means.  It's very amusing to watch people try to wriggle out of it.

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So if I scratch my name into your TV, that means its mine? No, and neither does the fact that image on the coin makes it Caesars

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No lib, what's amusing is watching you trying to shoehorn the politics of the 21st Century onto a 1st Century religious reformer.