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Posted: 11/7/2002 6:56:46 AM EDT
To all you guys who say the NRA is wotrhless, here are the facts on the last election. 21 of 24 NRA endorsed senate candidates won. 230 of 246 Rep candidates won. In my home state of Minnesota, we elected a pro-gun U.S. Senator and Governor. So get on your knees and face east and kiss their ass, they did a great job this election at a big cost. What did you do other than bitch to the local gunshop to the choir. Flame away.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 7:05:27 AM EDT
that's all fine. Now get they need to get the 1934 NFA, the 68 GCA, the MG manufacture ban in the 86 FOPA and the 94 AWB repealed.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 7:10:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Stronghorn: To all you guys who say the NRA is wotrhless, here are the facts on the last election. 21 of 24 NRA endorsed senate candidates won. 230 of 246 Rep candidates won. In my home state of Minnesota, we elected a pro-gun U.S. Senator and Governor. So get on your knees and face east and kiss their ass, they did a great job this election at a big cost. What did you do other than bitch to the local gunshop to the choir. Flame away.
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[b]What did you do other than bitch to the local gunshop to the choir[/b] Every time I'm just about ready to cave and go for a Life Membership, I read things like this. And no, I don't 'kiss' anyones ass. Maybe you might enjoy shitting upon the big NRA naysayers, but you also do an outstanding and eloquent job of pushing fence-sitters AWAY from joining. If the conduct of an NRA member is to demand that their detractors 'kiss their ass'... So I guess this means if I don't have an NRA card in my wallet when I vote a Republican ticket, my votes don't count then? Right. I'll give cred that the NRA was a factor in this...it is pretty plain. I'll wait to see what these reps DO with their newfound influence to decide things. What good would it be if the NRA got these people (and Bush) elected if they vote and sign a new AWB, or implement a national ballistics fingerprinting scheme?
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 7:15:42 AM EDT
Easy, brother. One step at a time. Tony
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 7:16:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2002 7:20:11 AM EDT by Badseed]
that's all fine. Now get they need to get the 1934 NFA, the 68 GCA, the MG manufacture ban in the 86 FOPA and the 94 AWB repealed.
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Exactly. The NRA is not looking out for black rifle people. They are looking out for the Benelli over-under, shooting clay off the deck, kinda crowd. Why support someone who doesn't support me? Yeah, I know... they are pro-firearms and all that jazz. Don't give me the "we are all in this together" crap; they don't want me & they don't need me. When they do need me, they will show me... all they need is some iniative on our(my) behalf. I did not vote the way I did because the NRA supported the cantidates.. I voted for whom I believe would be best for the RKBA (Something, if you read between the lines, they are not entirely dedicated to... they would rather take your money and compromise. Whoop-de-doo. Edit: for Speeling
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 7:16:58 AM EDT
It is also a fact, that because of their NRA ties, 50% of "Union Households" voted Republican, despite, the Unions backing Gore! Charleton Heston's appearence at all those political rallies, around the country these past few months, lit alot of fires under alot of folk's butts.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 7:17:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By J_E_D: that's all fine. Now get they need to get the 1934 NFA, the 68 GCA, the MG manufacture ban in the 86 FOPA and the 94 AWB repealed.
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And with out the NRA, it is totally impossible. Baby steps, baby steps. Ya, the GOA is fine and dandy, and all the more helps, but the NRA IS the most powerful lobby group in America, with out them, you wouldn't have ANY black rifles.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 7:18:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2002 7:21:51 AM EDT by ChrisLe]
Originally Posted By J_E_D: that's all fine. Now get they need to get the 1934 NFA, the 68 GCA, the MG manufacture ban in the 86 FOPA and the 94 AWB repealed.
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J_E_D, Well said, I would much rather they concern themselves with the above issues. Unfortunately, it will never happen as the NRA is no fan of the black rifle crowd. They are much more concerned about bolt gunners and the overunder crowd. Also, they're more concerned about sending me constant solicitations, videotapes, and other such fluff on a weekly basis.....
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 7:24:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By guns762:
Originally Posted By J_E_D: that's all fine. Now get they need to get the 1934 NFA, the 68 GCA, the MG manufacture ban in the 86 FOPA and the 94 AWB repealed.
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And with out the NRA, it is totally impossible. Baby steps, baby steps. Ya, the GOA is fine and dandy, and all the more helps, but the NRA IS the most powerful lobby group in America, with out them, you wouldn't have ANY black rifles.
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I never said otherwise. Why don't we read in the NRA/ILA stuff about efforts to regain ground lost in compromises? I'm an NRA member so that I can be a member of my gun club and out of a certain degree of pragmatism. I also have thrown some cash at the 1934 Group in hopes of getting the NFA repealed or at least the CLEO signoff for tax paid making and transfers done away with. Fighting to maintain a stalemate is a losing strategy. Fighting to regain what has been lost or compromised away is what I want my dues and donations used for.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 7:26:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2002 7:27:46 AM EDT by Carbine_Man]
Unfortunately, it will never happen as the NRA is no fan of the black rifle crowd. They are much more concerned about bolt gunners and the overunder crowd.
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I don't understand this. Why is this true? Is there someone out there who has tried to talk to the NRA about this issue? It just seems completely wierd. [b]I'm supposed to go convince my local Congresscritter to let the AWB go away in '04, but I can't convince the NRA to help? What is wrong with this picture?[/b]
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 7:30:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ChrisLe:
Originally Posted By J_E_D: that's all fine. Now get they need to get the 1934 NFA, the 68 GCA, the MG manufacture ban in the 86 FOPA and the 94 AWB repealed.
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J_E_D, Well said, I would much rather they concern themselves with the above issues. Unfortunately, it will never happen as the NRA is no fan of the black rifle crowd. They are much more concerned about bolt gunners and the overunder crowd. Also, they're more concerned about sending me constant solicitations, videotapes, and other such fluff on a weekly basis.....
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Remember all those "I am the NRA" spots that were in American Rifleman? Well, [b]I am the NRA[/b].
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 7:31:17 AM EDT
Why wait until 2004 for the AWB, work to repeal it NOW. 2004 is an election year, they'll just put a 1 year extension on it to get it off the table so it won't hurt their campaigns.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 7:49:17 AM EDT
I am the NRA IPSC IDPA 3 GUN shooter If you want to keep your gun and havent joined the NRA then join the other BIG group that fights for the 2nd amendment. OH [shock]there isnt another group with the power of the NRA to join you say. Thats ok just do nothing then bitch later.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 8:03:06 AM EDT
Maybe the reason the NRA does not come running out to trumpet black rifles, is because black rifle owners would rather whine bitch moan and complain than join. Here's a clue for you: the NRA IS it's members! If you want the NRA to get serious about the AWB, GCA, etc., then JOIN and TELL THEM WHAT YOU WANT! If you're not a member, then you have no say in what they do. It's like non-voters bitching about who gets elected.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 8:10:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GovtThug: Maybe the reason the NRA does not come running out to trumpet black rifles, is because black rifle owners would rather whine bitch moan and complain than join. Here's a clue for you: the NRA IS it's members! If you want the NRA to get serious about the AWB, GCA, etc., then JOIN and TELL THEM WHAT YOU WANT! If you're not a member, then you have no say in what they do. It's like non-voters bitching about who gets elected.
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I understand the deal Thug. That's why you have me thinking hard about it after your other post about your e-mail regarding AWs to the NRA. I'm just not sure yet, I feel in 2004 they will compromise again due to the elections..... Something keeps saying I'll get stabbed in the back.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 8:25:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2002 8:27:52 AM EDT by PitViper]
So get on your knees and face east and kiss their ass, they did a great job this election at a big cost.
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Until they support MY rights 100% as an evil black rifle shooter, and stop implying that gun rights only apply to 'purty duck guns and to hunters (of which I am also one)[b]THEY[/b] can kiss [b]MY[/b] ass before I'll give them my money to market me to hell and gone. I get enough junk mail as it is now, thank you.
originally quoted by badseed: Don't give me the "we are all in this together" crap; they don't want me & they don't need me. When they do need me, they will show me... all they need is some iniative on our(my) behalf.
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EXACTLY. Pit
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 8:41:03 AM EDT
Hey, if no black rifle owner join the NRA, then it's fair to say that the NRA doesn't represent black rifle owners. I own black rifles and I joined. And if every owner of black rifles joined, too, then they would have no choice but to listen to their MEMBERSHIP. Rather than stay away, you'd accomplish more good by joining and being a bit vocal about what YOU want from YOUR organization. If the majority of NRA members stated their support for black rifle rights, then the NRA's official position would be in support of black rifle rights. So join and let them know what you want out of them for your membership fees. Otherwise, what's the point in complaining about an organization that you won't even be a part of? CJ
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 8:50:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 8:52:27 AM EDT
The NRA is the one gun rights organization with the political clout to get results. I think that they compromise when they feel it is absolutely necessary and much of their work is behind the scenes in the halls of congress rather than in the media. That kind of access is what political clout brings you. I would ask the question how much worse would the AWB be if the NRA had not been pulling strings to make it LIMITED and TEMPORARY? How much more gun control legislation would we have to deal with if the NRA were not active? The NRA curries favor with hunters, and skeet shooters and the like because that gives them a broad base from which to operate but rest assured, the NRA knows the true meaning of 2nd A. At the very least, the NRA is an ally to those who want to preserve the right to own AR-15 type rifles without restrictions, they are far from the enemy.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 8:57:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson: Rather than stay away, you'd accomplish more good by joining and being a bit vocal about what YOU want from YOUR organization.
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If you get a chance, for me, send them an E-mail asking straight forward what their stance is on the AW ban sunset, and how they will make sure it stays down. I will do the same as a non-member. Then we can compare notes as to what their response is. I have an inkling it will be the same. But I may be wrong, let's try this. It could be a chance to convert some non-believers.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 9:05:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson: Hey, if no black rifle owner join the NRA, then it's fair to say that the NRA doesn't represent black rifle owners. I own black rifles and I joined. And if every owner of black rifles joined, too, then they would have no choice but to listen to their MEMBERSHIP.
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I did. They didn't.
Rather than stay away, you'd accomplish more good by joining and being a bit vocal about what YOU want from YOUR organization.
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I was. Amounted to Diddly SQUAT.
If the majority of NRA members stated their support for black rifle rights, then the NRA's official position would be in support of black rifle rights. So join and let them know what you want out of them for your membership fees.
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I did. Got me nowhere. (Got a sticker and some really nice "Special offers just for NRA members" though...)
Otherwise, what's the point in complaining about an organization that you won't even be a part of? CJ
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Look, I feel the strongly NRA does some good for the shooting community as a whole. But I feel just as strongly that they'd serve me and my black rifles up in the name of compromise and "sportin purposes" in a New York second. I joined, I got nothing, really that I could see for my money, other than some decent Magazine articles, so I didn't re-up. I Do I hate the NRA, no, but I am disappointed in them a great deal of the time. Are they necessary? Yes. And I am glad that they exist, just not for all of us. Maybe one day, I'll get the satisfaction of being proved wrong. At that time I'll gladly join up again. Until then, I'll support individual RKBA candidates. Just my .0223, YMMV. Pit
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 9:12:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Stronghorn: To all you guys who say the NRA is wotrhless, here are the facts on the last election. 21 of 24 NRA endorsed senate candidates won. 230 of 246 Rep candidates won. In my home state of Minnesota, we elected a pro-gun U.S. Senator and Governor. So get on your knees and face east and kiss their ass, they did a great job this election at a big cost. What did you do other than bitch to the local gunshop to the choir. Flame away.
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I agree with you 100%. And just listen to all the "yeah but" people on this site. Fuckin' pathetic. If they don't get 100% of their own agenda supported they whine and bitch.....and are every bit as much a part of the problem(if they aren't members of the NRA.) NRA has worked wonders during this past election getting proRKBA people elected. They are certainly not the only reason, but they gave a strong push that got damn good results. "But I want this repealed, and that repealed"...no shit, we ALL do. I hate to wake you from your slumber, but firearms laws NEVER get repealed. It's not a majority opinion in this country to repeal the major restrictive firearms laws. Not even close. Period. I'll support all groups that have a hand in preserving our rights. Sitting back and bitching without contributing makes me sick. You do nothing to preserve your rights, our rights? You don't join groups that work for this cause? I'd like to take your guns myself.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 9:25:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M4:
Originally Posted By Stronghorn: To all you guys who say the NRA is wotrhless, here are the facts on the last election. 21 of 24 NRA endorsed senate candidates won. 230 of 246 Rep candidates won. In my home state of Minnesota, we elected a pro-gun U.S. Senator and Governor. So get on your knees and face east and kiss their ass, they did a great job this election at a big cost. What did you do other than bitch to the local gunshop to the choir. Flame away.
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I agree with you 100%. And just listen to all the "yeah but" people on this site. Fuckin' pathetic. If they don't get 100% of their own agenda supported they whine and bitch.....and are every bit as much a part of the problem(if they aren't members of the NRA.) NRA has worked wonders during this past election getting proRKBA people elected. They are certainly not the only reason, but they gave a strong push that got damn good results. "But I want this repealed, and that repealed"...no shit, we ALL do. I hate to wake you from your slumber, but firearms laws NEVER get repealed. It's not a majority opinion in this country to repeal the major restrictive firearms laws. Not even close. Period. I'll support all groups that have a hand in preserving our rights. Sitting back and bitching without contributing makes me sick. You do nothing to preserve your rights, our rights? You don't join groups that work for this cause? I'd like to take your guns myself.
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Never get repealed? And the party of the president never keeps control of the House and Senate in mid-terms. Part of the '86 FOPA did away with parts of the '68 GCA so I guess you're not entirely correct about that. Aren't you glad you don't have to do paperwork to get ammo anymore? This crap [b]can[/b] be repealed/restored/rolled back.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 9:43:54 AM EDT
When I see evidence of NRA involvement in rolling back the clock, not just trying to hold on, I might re-join. I honestly think GOA does a much better job with fewer resources. Also, the NRA has sold out many states in their time of need, especially Kali. The NRA is to the 2A what H&R Block is to the 16thA. Without gun control, what would the NRA do? Just underwrite shooting matches and do a bit of conservation? The NRA magazines say it all--there is hardly any substance in them, just like there is hardly any substance to most hunters and shooters who refuse to take a stand (or even vote). And Heston has got to go before he becomes a real embarrassment they way Reagan got. The Michael Moore interview was pretty bad--Moore is a punk, and if anyone at the NRA had any balls and any brains, they would easily be able to refute Moore during an interview and turn his bullshit right back in his face where it belongs. We desperately need an NRA with cojones, not a bunch of back-slapping, inside-the-beltway teetotalers who endorse marginal candidates and spend tons of money in the vain hope that their influence will continue. What influence? My god, the NRA Is the 2nd largest lobby in America and here we sit wondering if the AW ban will sunset or not!
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 9:44:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2002 9:51:47 AM EDT by guns762]
Originally Posted By PitViper: I joined, I got nothing, really that I could see for my money, other than some decent Magazine articles, so I didn't re-up. I Do I hate the NRA, no, but I am disappointed in them a great deal of the time. Are they necessary? Yes. And I am glad that they exist, just not for all of us. Maybe one day, I'll get the satisfaction of being proved wrong. At that time I'll gladly join up again. Until then, I'll support individual RKBA candidates. Just my .0223, YMMV. Pit
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Wasn't the magazine worth the $35 a year? Most of my other mags cost me 19-22 and they aren't out helping at all. So you think that you should have instant gratification, because you gave a pitantce of $35? It takes all of us to make a difference. Look at the election results this year. You think that the NRA had nothing to do with that. I heard many, many adds for RKBA canadates this year. Every time I heard one, I thought the 35 was worth every penny! So you won't get on board untill you see things go your way? Wow, how nice of you to sit on the side lines doing NOTHING, expecting Something to happen. NOTHING will happen if too many "something for nothing" people like you sit on the sidelines. BTW, I don't know about you, but I kinda like being able to have a CCW that is recognized by @19 states at last count, and have, what is it now, 34? states that allow CCW. Do you think this just happened out of the gratiousness of the Democraps? Maybe that is where some of your 35 dollars went to? Ya think?
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 9:46:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Stronghorn: To all you guys who say the NRA is wotrhless, here are the facts on the last election. 21 of 24 NRA endorsed senate candidates won. 230 of 246 Rep candidates won. In my home state of Minnesota, we elected a pro-gun U.S. Senator and Governor. So get on your knees and face east and kiss their ass, they did a great job this election at a big cost. What did you do other than bitch to the local gunshop to the choir. Flame away.
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I agree with your generalization of gun store politicians. Not that it will change anyone's mind here but in addition to bitching at the gun store I bother to write the NRA, my various representatives and I try to change the mind of every socialist anti-freedom hippie that I can. There are those who maintain the defeatist "let's just defend what we have" attitude and that's their choice. Maybe I'm setting myself up for disappointment but I'd rather take the approach that things can be made right again. The alternatives are: -Do what Alec (The Bloviator) Baldwin promised to do and leave. -Watch things go down the drain -Join DU and be a hypocrite. I say the NRA isn't worthless. At worst, it is not entirely focused on the problems that need fixing. That can be changed. Someone else pointed out something like this and I'd like to chime in also. It's a shame that my elected representative is much more open to another NFA Amnesty, the AWB sunset and mag ban repeal than the NRA [b]appears[/b] to be.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 9:52:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: When I see evidence of NRA involvement in rolling back the clock, not just trying to hold on, I might re-join. I honestly think GOA does a much better job with fewer resources. Also, the NRA has sold out many states in their time of need, especially Kali. The NRA is to the 2A what H&R Block is to the 16thA. Without gun control, what would the NRA do? Just underwrite shooting matches and do a bit of conservation? The NRA magazines say it all--there is hardly any substance in them, just like there is hardly any substance to most hunters and shooters who refuse to take a stand (or even vote). And Heston has got to go before he becomes a real embarrassment they way Reagan got. The Michael Moore interview was pretty bad--Moore is a punk, and if anyone at the NRA had any balls and any brains, they would easily be able to refute Moore during an interview and turn his bullshit right back in his face where it belongs. We desperately need an NRA with cojones, not a bunch of back-slapping, inside-the-beltway teetotalers who endorse marginal candidates and spend tons of money in the vain hope that their influence will continue. What influence? My god, the NRA Is the 2nd largest lobby in America and here we sit wondering if the AW ban will sunset or not!
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Rejoin anyway and try to change them. It's not impossible. I agree that we need and NRA that presents the right image, debates the issue effectively and is as embarrassment free as possible. This is just my crazy opinion and it is probably flawed and not well said but here goes: I pay my NRA dues so that they can bribe representatives for me and make sure they stay bribed by tracking their record and rewarding or punishing as needed.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 9:56:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Badseed: If you get a chance, for me, send them an E-mail asking straight forward what their stance is on the AW ban sunset, and how they will make sure it stays down. I will do the same as a non-member. Then we can compare notes as to what their response is. I have an inkling it will be the same. But I may be wrong, let's try this. It could be a chance to convert some non-believers.
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This was addressed the other day. I cant remember who posted it. The letter was sent and the reply was they DO NOT SUPPORT THE BAN, and are WORKING TO REPEAL IT. So there you have it. Get off your ass and join. BTW I have recently been only a year to year member and just did the [b]LIFE MEMBERSHIP.[/b]
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 10:07:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M4: And just listen to all the "yeah but" people on this site. Fuckin' pathetic. If they don't get 100% of their own agenda supported they whine and bitch.....and are every bit as much a part of the problem(if they aren't members of the NRA.)
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I find it interesting, in looking at this thread, the reaction of those in support of the NRA, and those who oppose some NRA positions. On the oppose side, we have such gems as:
Why support someone who doesn't support me? Yeah, I know... they are pro-firearms and all that jazz. Don't give me the "we are all in this together" crap; they don't want me & they don't need me. When they do need me, they will show me... all they need is some iniative on our(my) behalf.
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Well said, I would much rather they concern themselves with the above issues. Unfortunately, it will never happen as the NRA is no fan of the black rifle crowd. They are much more concerned about bolt gunners and the overunder crowd. Also, they're more concerned about sending me constant solicitations, videotapes, and other such fluff on a weekly basis.....
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I don't understand this. Why is this true? Is there someone out there who has tried to talk to the NRA about this issue? It just seems completely wierd. I'm supposed to go convince my local Congresscritter to let the AWB go away in '04, but I can't convince the NRA to help? What is wrong with this picture?
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And in response, the support of the NRA:
So get on your knees and face east and kiss their ass, they did a great job this election at a big cost. What did you do other than bitch to the local gunshop to the choir.
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Thats ok just do nothing then bitch later.
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Maybe the reason the NRA does not come running out to trumpet black rifles, is because black rifle owners would rather whine bitch moan and complain than join.
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Fuckin' pathetic. If they don't get 100% of their own agenda supported they whine and bitch.....and are every bit as much a part of the problem(if they aren't members of the NRA.)
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If this is the consistent level of respect given to black rifle owners regarding the NRA, it comes as NO surprise whatsoever that so few black rifle owners are members. If even the lower echelon of the NRA treats their concerns with such contempt, there is absolutely no reason to expect the upper echelon to do anything different. Sad, that some people sound just as bad as DUers here... Not to say there are not eloquent people with valid points speaking in support of the NRA, such as DBrewer842 and Reactionary ....but anything they say tends to whither among being called 'fucking pathetic', 'part of the problem', etc. For a lot of these people, their current '100% agenda' is for the NRA to openly show that they support the RKBA INCLUDING such firearms as AK variants and black rifles. Not a difficult proposition.....and if the NRA can't deliver that, then it can't even meet the basic criteria these people have. And if they don't even believe in the whole meaning of the Second Amendment, what makes them any better than the ACLU?
NRA has worked wonders during this past election getting proRKBA people elected. They are certainly not the only reason, but they gave a strong push that got damn good results.
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Really? I thought I was supposed to 'face east and kiss their ass' over the election results.
"But I want this repealed, and that repealed"...no shit, we ALL do. I hate to wake you from your slumber, but firearms laws NEVER get repealed. It's not a majority opinion in this country to repeal the major restrictive firearms laws. Not even close. Period.
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If these laws never get repealed, which I would tend to agree, then the NRA is not 'fighting for our rights'. They are merely seeking to prolong the eventual, unstoppable, and certain eradication of our rights. Interesting, considering that even without the trifecta of Senate/House/Presidency under Democratic control we can get laws such as the Assault Weapons Ban. So what you are then saying is that the stong and persuasive NRA, even with the full backing of the entire federal legislative system, is not as powerful as the control lobby. That the best they can do is to plug fingers into the rapidly breaking damn of our rights, which will further be destroyed during the next Democratic presidency. If that's the case I'd rather they get out of the way so that gun owners can begin to truly assert their rights. I'd rather get there now, than in 30 years when all most people will have are pen knifes and cap guns from the 'death of a thousand cuts'.
I'll support all groups that have a hand in preserving our rights. Sitting back and bitching without contributing makes me sick. You do nothing to preserve your rights, our rights? You don't join groups that work for this cause? I'd like to take your guns myself.
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Okay, I've asked this question in three different NRA threads (including this one), and I'll ask it again (to which there will be resounding silence)... [b]Why in the g-ddamned motherfucking hell do you arrogant pricks believe that no one can do ANYTHING for our rights without the fucking blessing of the Almighty N.R. Fucking A?[/b] That complete and utter arrogance is about the most damning condemnation of NRA membership as I've ever seen. If you think I do nothing to further the cause, well that's fine. The worth of your opinion has lost much weight from your arrogance. If you want to take away my guns because you believe anything done without the NRA Seal of Approval is worth nothing, then please do so, as you show yourself no better than a Sarah Brady or Tom Diaz, and will be treated accordingly.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 10:17:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2002 10:35:13 AM EDT by PitViper]
Originally Posted By guns762: [So you won't get on board untill you see things go your way? Wow, how nice of you to sit on the side lines doing NOTHING, expecting Something to happen. NOTHING will happen if too many "something for nothing" people like you sit on the sidelines.
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First off Ya don't know me, and you don't know what I have or haven't done in order to preserve my rights. I work on the campaigns of my local pro gunners, from dogcatcher to Sheriff, to President, and do so for free. I write and call my congressmen, and probably yours, EVERY time a gun bill is up for consideration, to the Point that my Senator, when I met him, said to me "you're the Second Amendment guy..." Try it sometime. I provide education to my non-shooting friends to see we ain't all the raw meat eatin' gun toting, NRA kool Aid Drinkin' baby killers we're made out to be. I'm over a men's group at church, made up of non shooters, that went to the range for the first time this month. Guess what we shot? I've shown them that Black guns are not only NOT any worse than the pretty hunting rifle Grampa left them, but they are a helluva lot of fun. In doing so, I've helped to convert a few to our side. So I think I'm justified in telling YOU to go piss up a rope with your judgements about what I do or don't do with regards to my rights. I didn't intend for this to get personal, but you went there, sport. Grassroots is where we'll win this fight. In simpler terms, Screw your holier than thou NRA happy horseshit. Thinking you're doing something because you can put 35 bucks in an NRA envelope is tantamount to being proud of yourself for rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The NRA can EASILY win me back, by supporting all firearms ownership. PERIOD. Otherwise I'm just paying them for my part of the the next "Compromise" that comes down the pike. You might like to pay to get screwed, but I sure as hell don't. Pit
Originally posted by hard-case: Why in the g-ddamned motherfucking hell do you arrogant pricks believe that no one can do ANYTHING for our rights without the fucking blessing of the Almighty N.R. Fucking A? That complete and utter arrogance is about the most damning condemnation of NRA membership as I've ever seen. If you think I do nothing to further the cause, well that's fine. The worth of your opinion has lost much weight from your arrogance. If you want to take away my guns because you believe anything done without the NRA Seal of Approval is worth nothing, then please do so, as you show yourself no better than a Sarah Brady or Tom Diaz, and will be treated accordingly.
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What he said, times two. (Edited because I type like shit, and even worse when I'm pissed off.) Pit
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 10:23:18 AM EDT
There's no need for me to re-join. I do as much as I can as a grassroots activist now. I think it is the grassroots full-court press that is actually working, the NRA just takes credit for all of it (and the media blames it on them). The NRA has been next to worthless in NC though. It's all GRNC and other leaderless guerillas who are really getting things done. The NRA has provided some legal assistance to shooting ranges under attack, but I wish they would close down the ILA and go back to sanctioning shooting matches. Let GOA lead the way. [url]http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/11/7/63003.shtml[/url] And by the way, it's time to go on the offensive RIGHT NOW. As Larry Pratt said: "We think we're seeing the nail in the coffin as far as many major gun control proposals are concerned." Yeah, so why slow down any? Let's really nail the coffin shut, then bury the fucker, too!
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 10:34:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: There's no need for me to re-join. I do as much as I can as a grassroots activist now. I think it is the grassroots full-court press that is actually working, the NRA just takes credit for all of it (and the media blames it on them). The NRA has been next to worthless in NC though. It's all GRNC and other leaderless guerillas who are really getting things done. The NRA has provided some legal assistance to shooting ranges under attack, but I wish they would close down the ILA and go back to sanctioning shooting matches. Let GOA lead the way. [url]http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/11/7/63003.shtml[/url] And by the way, it's time to go on the offensive RIGHT NOW. As Larry Pratt said: "We think we're seeing the nail in the coffin as far as many major gun control proposals are concerned." Yeah, so why slow down any? Let's really nail the coffin shut, then bury the fucker, too!
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AMEN to all of that!
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 10:44:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By PitViper: I work on the campaigns of my local pro gunners, from dogcatcher to Sheriff, to President, and do so for free. I write and call my congressmen, and probably yours, EVERY time a gun bill is up for consideration, to the Point that my Senator, when I met him, said to me "you're the Second Amendment guy..." Try it sometime. I provide education to my non-shooting friends to see we ain't all the raw meat eatin' gun toting, NRA kool Aid Drinkin' baby killers we're made out to be. I'm over a men's group at church, made up of non shooters, that went to the range for the first time this month. Guess what we shot? I've shown them that Black guns are not only NOT any worse than the pretty hunting rifle Grampa left them, but they are a helluva lot of fun. In doing so, I've helped to convert a few to our side. So I think I'm justified in telling YOU to go piss up a rope with your judgements about what I do or don't do with regards to my rights. I didn't intend for this to get personal, but you went there, sport. In simpler terms, Screw your holier than thou NRA happy horseshit. Thinking you're doing something because you can put 35 bucks in an NRA envelope is tantamount to being proud of yourself for rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The NRA can EASILY win me back, by supporting all firearms ownership. PERIOD. Otherwise I'm just paying them for my part of the the next "Compromise" that comes down the pike. You might like to pay to get screwed, but I sure as hell don't. Pit Edited because I type like shit, and even worse when I'm pissed off.
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Must have gotten pretty close to the truth then, huh? Seriously, I didn't mean to get personal. If you took my comments personally, then you have my appologies. And, I don't have a "holier" than thow attitude. I'm just tired of people, like you, crying about why not to join the NRA. If you can live with yourself, fine, dandy, sounds like you do a lot for your RKBA, probably more than me, but, your reasons for not supporting the NRA are still flawed and petty. I don't believe that just my 35 bucks does very much, but it does more than the 35 you didn't send. Thirty-five times 3 million? That's something. Thirty-five times 6 million, if a few of you and your sit on the bench buddies would send in thier 35? Might help, but that's just my opinion. If you're mad at me right now , its just because you know I'm right, and you feel guilty. flame away. guns762
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 11:15:09 AM EDT
Just imagine how much power and influence the NRA would have if the cheap, petty, whiny NRA detractors in this thread along with the other 75,000,000 deadbeat gun owners in ths country would simply sign up. The NRA would be unstoppable. We likely would start seeing rollbacks of various anti-gun legislation. You guys really are pathetic.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 11:19:15 AM EDT
My .02 cents: Money talks, bullshit walks. I figure the rest is up to you.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 11:19:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hard-case: On the oppose side, we have such gems as:
I don't understand this. Why is this true? Is there someone out there who has tried to talk to the NRA about this issue? It just seems completely wierd. I'm supposed to go convince my local Congresscritter to let the AWB go away in '04, but I can't convince the NRA to help? What is wrong with this picture?
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Just for the record, [b]hard-case[/b] has me completely wrong. I am fully in support of everyone joining the NRA. I was [b]sincerely[/b] asking a question! In fact, I think that if you want a rock-solid strategy for no-more-AWB, why not have [b]black rifle people put together an all-out campaign inside the NRA, and pursuade the NRA to throw their undeniable muscle into doing it![/b] The point is, it [b]IS[/b] easier to convince the NRA than it is to convince a Congresscritter.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 11:29:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2002 11:33:15 AM EDT by PitViper]
Originally Posted By guns762: Must have gotten pretty close to the truth then, huh?
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Err, no. ANd I think I explained why not.
Seriously, I didn't mean to get personal. If you took my comments personally, then you have my appologies.
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Then you shouldn't accuse me of doing nothing when you know not of what you speak.
And, I don't have a "holier" than thow attitude. I'm just tired of people, like you, crying about why not to join the NRA. If you can live with yourself, fine, dandy, [b]sounds like you do a lot for your RKBA, probably more than me[/b]
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You admit I do more for the RKBA than you probably do, but because I don't kiss the NRA's ass, my efforts don't count??? If that ain't a holier than thou attitude one doesn't exist.
but, your reasons for not supporting the NRA are still flawed and petty.
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I'm flawed and petty because I don't choose to support a group that doesn't support ALL firearms owners? This IS still a free country. You can believe what you wish 'til you're blue in the face, just as can I. And I believe given the chance, Wayne and Charlton and the boys would sell every single black gun up the river, to save the purty deer rifles that the Constitution mentions. If they ever prove me wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.
I don't believe that just my 35 bucks does very much, but it does more than the 35 you didn't send. Thirty-five times 3 million? That's something. Thirty-five times 6 million, if a few of you and your sit on the bench buddies would send in thier 35? Might help, but that's just my opinion.
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Again, if the NRA would get off it's butt and represent us, we just might. Until then, see previous post Re: Paying for a good screwing.
If you're mad at me right now , its just because you know I'm right, and you feel guilty.
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Nope. I have absolutely no guilt with my decision not to support the NRA, nor would I have any problem reversing that decision if they ever decide I'm worth their time. I'm pissed because you equate mailing 35 bones to the NRA with actual activism in defense of the RKBA, and assume, arrogantly, as another board member put it, that since my efforts don't have the "fucking blessing of the Almighty N.R. Fucking A?", that I'm doing nothing. I have a suggestion: Try some hands on activism. You'll find it refreshing, you'll see that it'll make your 35 bucks feel much less like you're "doing something", and you just might learn something, too. Pit
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 11:30:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2002 11:32:09 AM EDT by hard-case]
Originally Posted By Carbine_Man: Just for the record, [b]hard-case[/b] has me completely wrong. I am fully in support of everyone joining the NRA. I was [b]sincerely[/b] asking a question! [/b]
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Do I? I presented it as [b]those in support of the NRA, and those who oppose some NRA positions[/b], not specifically members vs. non members. If you do feel that way, though, I'll edit my post and remove your quote.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 11:40:00 AM EDT
Pit, I didn't say the only thing I did was send in my 35 dollars. You assumed that. I said "it sounds like you do more than me." I was trying to boost your self-esteem, by being nice. I'm not going to get into the "I've done more than you." If you are happy with what you are doing, great! I'm just saying you could do more, by contributing and joinging the NRA, and GOA, and any other RKBA. The more, the better. BTW, It's nice to remember we are all on the same side. The NRA, nor I, is your enemy.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 11:46:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Stronghorn: To all you guys who say the NRA is wotrhless, here are the facts on the last election. 21 of 24 NRA endorsed senate candidates won. 230 of 246 Rep candidates won. In my home state of Minnesota, we elected a pro-gun U.S. Senator and Governor. So get on your knees and face east and kiss their ass, they did a great job this election at a big cost. What did you do other than bitch to the local gunshop to the choir. Flame away.
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And your point is?????
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 11:51:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By guns762: I was trying to boost your self-esteem, by being nice. I'm just saying you could do more, by contributing and joinging the NRA, and GOA, and any other RKBA. The more, the better. BTW, It's nice to remember we are all on the same side. The NRA, nor I, is your enemy.
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I don't need my self esteem boosted, but thanks for the thought. I am a member of GOA, BTW, simply because I feel they do more with less, and do not compromise my rights. As I stated I think the NRA does some good, but I do not fully trust an organization that I feel makes a distinction between certain groups of gunowners. GOA doesn't do that. I never implied you nor any of the other NRA dudes (or dudettes) were my enemies...We all want the same thing, and I'm sure we'd have a helluva good time on the range. Spirited discourse is healthy in any group of like-minded individuals, otherwise you get Democratic Underground. Besides, it helps my typing skills[:D] Pit
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 3:07:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2002 3:12:06 PM EDT by RipMeyer]
Hmmm....Quite a few of you said wont join the NRA until you see they will fight the AWB. I made a post "Quoting Gov Thug" stating their position. Now you have nothing to say?
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 3:11:18 PM EDT
OK I FOUND IT.
Originally Posted By GovtThug: I sent an email to NRA-ILA in reference to the AWB. Here's what I wrote:
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 11:47 PM To: ILA-Contact Subject: The Assault Weapons Ban Hello, First, I would like to thank the NRA for taking a decisive stance against ballistic fingerprinting. Despite the emotional outcry in support of this "back door" gun registration scheme, the NRA has issued a forceful statement exposing the inadequacy and limited value of ballistic fingerprinting. I now ask that you release an equally decisive and forceful statement in opposition to another issue that is facing gun owners, now and in the not too distant future: the Assault Weapons Ban. I am aware of the sensitive political nature of this issue. However, I also know that owners of these so called "assault weapons" are looking to the NRA for just such a decisive statement. I also believe that "assault weapon" owners stand ready to give significant support to the NRA to fight a new Assault Weapons Ban. The Brady campaign has issued the following statement on it's web site, www.bradycampaign.org : "The federal assault weapon law banning military style semiautomatic weapons needs to be enforced and renewed. The Bushmaster is a copycat assault weapon modeled on the military's M-16 and it should not be sold. In enacting the assault weapon law in 1994, it was clearly the intent of Congress to ban all semi-automatic assault weapons. That's why it banned not only several specific models, but also "copies or duplicates" of those guns. One of the listed models is the Colt AR-15. There is a strong argument that the Bushmaster used by the sniper is a "copy" of the Colt AR-15 and is therefore banned under existing law. If the Bush Administration is serious that existing gun laws need to be vigorously enforced, why has it allowed this gun to be sold? Why is it not using the broadest possible interpretation of the existing statute to enforce the intent of Congress in enacting the ban? Bushmaster tried to avoid the intent and spirit of the federal ban by manufacturing a weapon with minor modifications that obviously did not reduce the combat nature of this weapon. The federal assault weapons ban expires in September 2004 and that the lawmakers elected this November will decide the fate of the law. We want do not want more military-style weapons back on our streets!" As you can see, the anti-gun-rights crowd has already begun the blather that they will use to further restrict our Second Amendment rights. Please, do not let this go unanswered. As I stated earlier, I believe that owners of semi-automatic firearms stand ready to give the NRA significant support in this fight, and here's why: I am a member of an internet discussion board at www.ar15.com . This board boasts in excess of 26,000 registered members, who gather to discuss many different issues, but who are brought together by their appreciation for the many different models of AR-15 type rifles. Recently, I started a discussion there about the NRA and the Assault Weapons Ban, and I included a poll. The poll, while not strictly scientific, has yielded some interesting results, as has the discussion. The poll, which as of this writing has been responded to by 210 AR15.com members, indicates that if the NRA took a strong position against the Assault Weapons Ban: 52 respondents would become new members of the NRA; 14 respondents would upgrade their current membership from Annual to Life Member; and 140 respondents would contribute to a fund set up specifically to oppose the Assault Weapons Ban. Also, the discussion has resulted in two people joining the NRA, one as a Life Member. The complete poll results and discussion can be viewed at the web address http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=151470&page=1 . I would also like to point out that there are many other discussion boards on the web dedicated to semi-automatic firearms, including AK-47, H&K, and FAL type rifles. I'm sure that a statement from the NRA would serve to motivate the members of those boards also. I understand and appreciate the work the NRA did to soften the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban. I know the NRA was instrumental in getting the 10-year "sunset" added to the legislation. And I am confident that the "assault weapon" owning segment of the firearms community stands ready to fight a new ban in 2004, side by side with the NRA. I have read the strong words of opposition to "assault weapon" legislation on the NRA-ILA Frequently Asked Questions and Semi-Automatic Firearms Fact Sheet web pages. I think the time is ripe for the NRA to issue a decisive and forceful statement in opposition to any further "assault weapons" legislation. Thank you for your attention. Sincerely,
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Here is the response I received:
Subj: RE: The Assault Weapons Ban Date: 11/3/02 6:25:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time From: ILA-Contact@nrahq.org Thank you for contacting NRA-ILA. As for your suggestion concerning the issuing of a statement relating to so-called "assault weapons" and high capacity magazines, please know that it is appreciated, and has been forwarded to the NRA-ILA Public Affairs Division for further consideration. Turning to your general comments concerning so-called "assault weapons" and high capacity magazines, please know that this law sunsets September 13, 2004, when it will be up for a revote. NRA is opposed to this ban and we have consistently supported legislation calling for its repeal. Rest assured that NRA will remain involved in this issue as the sunset date for this ban approaches. With all members of the U.S. House of Representatives and 34 U.S. Senators up for election this year, what will happen with this law in 2004 will depend largely on our successes this election cycle. Rest assured that NRA-ILA included questions concerning this issue on the 2002 candidate questionnaire. Responses to this questionnaire were taken into consideration prior to the issuing of any grades and endorsements to candidates seeking federal office. Sincerely,
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Link Posted: 11/7/2002 3:15:21 PM EDT
OK....So all of you who said they would join after you found out they support repealing the ban. YOU are expected to now join up as per your own statments. Line up, single file!!
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 3:25:18 PM EDT
that still dont change my mind about them. Sure my bolt action rifles and my pump shot guns are gonna be safe. How bout my semi auto's? How bout my AR? How bout handguns and AKs and SKS's? I will keep supporting other people like GOA.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 3:27:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By union2k2: that still dont change my mind about them. Sure my bolt action rifles and my pump shot guns are gonna be safe. How bout my semi auto's? How bout my AR? How bout handguns and AKs and SKS's? I will keep supporting other people like GOA.
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uh....ok..I guess you did not read the letter.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 4:31:37 PM EDT
There are a million excuses for not joining and supporting the NRA and other Pro 2nd outfits, BUT, NOT ONE GOOD REASON. Obviously many AR people here are young, and don't know how to budget their money yet. All excuses (I aint gonna join because Bla,Bla,Bla) reads "IM A CHEAP ASS FREE LOADER" They are the same guys who go out drinking and say "Hit the bar", or buy Imported beer,( yeah, drink that mexican piss) or drop $60. in the Titty bar. But God no, they can't spend money to support a second ammendment org. They are too cheap. And in reply to those who said "They always want money from me". Well, I agree, Dam those NRA people, what with the Natl. Assn of Golfers, and the Bowlers assn, and the Natl Bird Watchers society all funding our Gun Rights program, why in hell does NRA and others need our money..? Here is a suggestion, after you join, and are asked for $$ for whatever, send two or three bucks, whatever you can afford. With eighty MILLION gun owners in this country, we could buy Friggin NBC or CBS and have things our way. But we ALL NEED TO SUPPORT ALL THE 2ND AMMENDMENT ORGS. Then when YOU do this, YOU can run your mouth like I'am doing now. GET MOTIVATED,, GET OTHERS MOTIVATED
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 4:46:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2002 4:56:45 PM EDT by union2k2]
Originally Posted By RipMeyer:
Originally Posted By union2k2: that still dont change my mind about them. Sure my bolt action rifles and my pump shot guns are gonna be safe. How bout my semi auto's? How bout my AR? How bout handguns and AKs and SKS's? I will keep supporting other people like GOA.
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uh....ok..I guess you did not read the letter.
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Sorry man i was responding to the guy who started the thread not you. It looked like i was talking to you because i didnt quote him like i should have. What letter? On edit. I read the letter. I cant say i trust them all that much. If i see some strong opposition to the ban I WILL join the NRA.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 5:01:54 PM EDT
The point is - You didn't do anything to stop the anti-gunners. You just bitched about everything YOU didn't get, but did absolutely nothing to change things. Man, get over it. Unless you attach yourself to the NRA, you're worthless. Now, do yourself a favor, and get yourself a lifetime membership to the NRA and help us!
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 5:11:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 5:18:10 PM EDT
I couldn't agree more. What has the NRA done to you? Get over it and join. No one else will do it for you.
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