http://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-9-1005-309-23-and-P.pdf

I did not know these were in the US Military's Inventory; which gives AR15 pistols more credence I think.

Its a cool rifle, there are a few members here who have done clones of it before.

Were any of these used in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Why?


Do you know what these are used for?

I'd rather have a 1911.  

No, it really doesn't.

BIG difference between Bang...Bang...Bang
&
RRRRIIIIIIIIPPPPP (1400 rounds per minute)

Some people need to look up the defintions of words before opening their mouths; because it shows their education or lack thereof. Also, when placing the letter s at the end of a word it makes it plural; meaning more than one. Clearly, all posts has to always have their douche bags add in their idiocy. Additionally, I said I think it gives them credence. "I think, " imparts a person's view or opinion, not a fact. When a person gives an opinion; usually it's best to ask why they believe
so; but as I already pointed out this would keep douche bags from being douche bags. This is supposed to be a tech forum; not general discussion. Clearly, it obviously can't with so many trolls.

gives - To manifest or show
credence - Acceptance as true or valid

Woah, what?

I was a Bradley gunner in Iraq in 04 and my platoon had one in every turret. We cut the tops off of M4 buttstocks and ratchet clamped them on. They worked great for warning shots when we couldn't fire the 25 or coax. They are a pain in the ass to control though.

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=459672

WTF.  These things were built for a reason, and it wasn't to get around the NFA (like AR pistols.)  THAT is why people told you your opinion was wrong.  How about chilling out on the butthurt or you aren't gonna be around here too long.

My guys left them with the Armorer. I only ever saw someone carry one once. It was a LT that they didn't have an M4 for. This was also early 2003.

Does anyone proof read their posts prior to making an attempt at claiming the intelligence award? Your grammar is awful.

You must understand that to ARF.com, the AR pistol has only one purpose...something to shoot while awaiting SBR paperwork. To admit otherwise is to be shunned by the masses.

What the fuck is your malfunction, 13'er?


You said, "I think" and everyone wants to know why the hell you would think something so stupid.

You never stated anything other than an opinion, and nobody ever confused anything in your post with facts being presented.



You think two totally unrelated variants of a firearm platform give credit to one another simply because neither utilizes a stock, we got it.  What's your problem?

They didn't have sights.... at all. They also are an open bolt firing system.

I kept one in the turret of my Bradely in Desert Storm but in OIF I had a HMMWV, so no M231.

Is that manual really 205-fucking pages long?!

I'm thinking I'm due to update my sigline.

For the OP, those were intended to be issued to chaplains, for use in spray and pray, just like AR pistols.

My old Small Arms of the World shows them with a rudimentary wire collapsible stock, later deleted apparently. Weren't they used with tracers(for aiming)?

They got a few on display at the RIA museum.  Never knew they were on tracks during OIF 1, cool.

The Grammar Mangler strikes!

Yup.....that's pure gold.......

The concept of the M231 was stupid from the start.

Hey guys let's all do mag dumps through these convenient ports we can't see out of in the hopes we'll hit the enemy who are all patiently standing on elevated platforms in the open near the armored vehicle as it drives by.

Whatever dumbass O-5 or O-6 came up with that idea or approved it needs dragged behind a Bradley down ten miles of tank trail in the rain.

Not always.  Some states don't have SBR's....


edit:  Luckily my Sig stabilization brace is very stable...

AR pistols are fun!

The may be idiotic but I think some foreign APCs have port firing weapons as well.

Very cool, I remember reading about those in an old pen and paper game I never used to play enough; Twilight 2000.  I was a gun nerd even than, so I had a whole bunch of vehicle and weapons add-on books.

That was a cool, fucking game.

 

Isnt that an open bolt design? I recall that they have a different firecontrol group.

Have any you gents ever fired one?  Was the firing rate really 1400 rpm, or was it a little slower.  At that rate it better be braced in the gun port but good for you to have any control.  Plus, I can't imagine that magazine lasting long.

Brrrrrpppp, empty...

The gas block on the M231 screws into a pivoting socket in the gun port and supports the weapon when fired.

Uppers were on the market in the 90's.        
 

I zip-tied a KAC VFG on the front of one in Iraq and took it to the range we had on our little FOB. Virtually impossible to control, even with the VFG being pretty sturdy. The climb is incredibly difficult to try and compensate for.

ETA: Also tried using 2 different Beta-C mags in it, but they just wouldn't feed properly.

Is the rate of fire very high or something?

I think around 1300-1400 rds per minute(?), but it's just very light and extremely awkward to hold while firing.

This.

I shot a registered transferable M231 about six or seven years ago, one of what I presume to be only a handful on the Registry.

It was an..interesting experience.  I'd shot plenty of M16s and other auto assault rifles before, so I thought I was just shooting a "normal" full auto 5.56 pistol when the owner handed it to me.  First clue that something was up came when I tried to hit the bolt release, and the owner told me "Naw, it's open bolt, just pull the trigger!"  There's something fundamentally wrong about an open bolt AR platform, it just seems downright disgraceful.

Over the years I've probably handled at least 20,000-30,000 firearms through work and range time.  Everything under the sun, from exotic beltfeds at the Creek to the finest selection of Beemiller products, if it shoots bullets I've probably run into it at one point or another.  The M231 trigger is up in my Top 3 Worst Triggers Of All Time list.  Shoot one, and then pick up a Kel-Tec and you'll want to know who installed an Jewell trigger into the P11.  I seem to recall it actually being so heavy it was actually physically painful trying to exert enough force to get it to fire.  Well over 15-20 pounds on the one I shot...maybe that's unique to that particular weapon, but it is hands-down the worst AR trigger ever designed.

Unlike geezhound, the Beta mag worked fairly well for me.  Unfortunately, if you fire the M231 from a "standard" hip position, a fast trigger pull results in half a dozen rounds going over the top of the backstop by the time you manage to end the trigger tap.  It not only has a ludicrously heavy break weight, but when you do get it to fire, the ridiculous cyclic rate combined with the rearward force on the trigger means that you're going to discharge far more rounds than you'd expect, even for someone with experience shooting select-fire weapons.  Add the low weight, lack of a stock, and the short barrel length, and it's damn near impossible to shoot safely anywhere other than a completely permissive wilderness environment.

It is quite possibly the single most useless small arm that has been fielded by the US military, and that's saying quite a lot all things considered.

I was Mech my entire short career in the Army.  We had these in the arms room in Baumholder, and they came with us to the field, Iraq, etc.  However, they never left the arms room/connex.  They were added too the Bradley design in response to the slide open firing ports on the sides of the BMP series of vehicles.  Another random fact, when the M2A0 was fielded, it had 6 ball joint mounts for the M231.  Two per side, and then the two in the ramp.  Once the A2 came out with the vertical steel armor on the sides, the 4 on the sides went away.  On A2 models that were upgraded A0 and A1s, if you pull the kevlar spall lining off the interior of the vehicle, the holes for the ball joints are still there.  Also, there are some variants of the Brad that do not have the ball joints in the ramp, such as the BFIST.

i never used one, however we did have them, and i recall while deployed to iraq on OIF 06, another company had an sop to hand it to the 1st dismount of the bradley and have him use it as a short range bullet hose for 1 mag to provide fire support to cover the remaining soldiers dismounting, then toss it back into the brad and switch to the m4 when dismount/1 mag were finished.

why they didnt just put a saw gunner in that seat i have no idea

The best part of your rant, is people with real world experience with them talking about how terrible they are.



 

BMPs and Marders for example still gave the port weapons the ability to use the sights if needed. Not that the intended purpose would always allow for it but it added a lot more vaibility to the concept.

So the guy that just now figured out that the m231 exists is now going to give arfcom a lecture on word definitions and why everyone else is uneducated? I don't think you'll last very long here.

BTW Sally, it's a Firing Port Machine Gun not a Port Firing Machine Gun.

Your thinker is flawed.

I don't know where it started but in case you haven't figured it out it's in GD now.