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Posted: 10/31/2002 7:15:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2002 7:41:07 PM EDT by Canooger]
I know most of you are sick of the NY political scene. This Golisano is 100% pro gun. I line up with this candidate on most issues. I think Pataki is a liar and a traitor. McCall is a puppet- Not to bright either. Socialist Worker Party? I don't think so. The Marijauna reformers? Single issue, boring. This is real change. I'm not throwing away my vote. I'm reconsidering my Republican enrollment. www.golisano.com NY voters please a least consider Golisano. Wants to make NY a "Shall Issue" State I went to hear him speak at a Candidtes night. He "blew away" his competitors reps.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 7:23:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2002 7:25:43 PM EDT by HiramRanger]
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 9:11:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2002 9:38:17 PM EDT by HKgnnr]
Hiram, help us out here. I've already thought I made my mind made up to vote for Golisano as well. Heres the problem, and I posted my reasons in the Politics forum as well. McCall is just another Klinton Democrat. Golisano - As you stated in your post, all understood But an even bigger problem - as you describe Golisano as "The man is pathetic, he is a liar, he has no honor, he is a hypocrite" That the same way I feel about Pataki, aside from being a wolf in sheeps clothing and sellout. So, Golisano is a wasted vote, and if I vote for Pataki, I'll be supporting the same asshole who screwed us. McCall, well you couldnt pay me enough. How many moving days till I get out of this shithole state again? (uh-oh, feel a rant coming on!!!!) [soapbox] I'll tell ya what, run on over to NY State Republican Committee office for me and tell the motherf&ckers I want hand written apology. I want an apology for screwing me over after 12 years of being a hard-core Republican defending 'our' views in college to my fellow 'liberal-minded' Political Science classmates at a 10 to 1 ratio. I want an apology from all those assholes who told me to support our illustrious Governor against Cuomo. I blindly followed, worked the polls and plastered his sign all over the neighborhood, and look where we are. Another 4 years of 'oh good, the Republican won' And what have 'we' gotten in return, second highest taxed state in the nation, and a Republican gun control advocate. F the Republican Party, I'm done with 'em.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 9:22:02 PM EDT
Golisano got a B from the NRA. So he'll get my vote. If it gets worse under Pataki should he win, I'll leave too if I can.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 9:24:38 PM EDT
It's your back yard, but if Pataki gets re-upped and Golisano can take second that means Hillary gets THIRD PLACE ON THE BALLOT in 2004 if she runs for Prez or if she tries for the Senate again in 2006.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 11:47:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 3:24:38 AM EDT
Golisano has my vote. Better the devil that hasn't fucked you yet, then the one that has had his way with you quite a number of tiems already.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 3:44:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 3:47:53 AM EDT
Golisano is still a better choice than Pataki, FUCK Pataki I don't care that he is a republican, that don't grant an auto vote from me anymore. I'll give Golisano a chance to prove himself because we already know that Pataki IS a liar and a hypocrite. HiramRanger, thanks for the information but it doesn't change my vote and it doesn't look like other NY'ers are changing either. McCall is not even figured into this race for me so no comment on him.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 3:59:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 4:42:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: I understand where you are coming from, but riddle me this Golisano... and why won't any of you answer this? [b] WHAT THE HELL DOES GOLISANO MEAN BY THE RIGHT TO OWN REASONABLE FIREARMS? [/b] Why won't any of you answer that? Why won't Golisano answer that?
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With no voting record to judge him on, What it means to me is the same thing Klinton meant when he stated he wanted "reasonable Gun control". From no-names and new guys you gotta Pray for the Best but Expect the worst. JerrY
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 4:45:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: First, NY has cut taxes more in the past eight years than every other state in the country combined! What does that tell you?
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I call bullshit on this one Hiram. I know for the past 8 years my state taxes have gone up, and not a little, double digits, my local and school taxes have also gone up. Whats pataki doing with all that money I am paying into the system. Why if all these taxes were cut, am I paying more? This dog doens't hunt.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 4:48:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Second, education and environmental protection funding is at an all time high. We all want our kids given the best opportunities and to have a safe place to live.
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How do you expect they pay for this increase of funding if they haven't raised taxes? Certainely not with the lotto funds (that we know is directly deposited into the general funds)...
Crime is down ahead of the national average.
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Funny, but after reading my local paper yesterday, seems crime, across the board is up in NY state.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 4:51:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: I understand where you are coming from, but riddle me this Golisano... and why won't any of you answer this? [b] WHAT THE HELL DOES GOLISANO MEAN BY THE RIGHT TO OWN REASONABLE FIREARMS? [/b] Why won't any of you answer that? Why won't Golisano answer that?
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Better reasoanble firearms than no firearms, which is where pataki is heading, he and his joint firearm task force headed by Schumer and Clinton. Nope. Pataki had his chance, in fact he has had two chances to do away with the onerous gun laws, but he has turned around and put more restricitions on lawful gun owners, he is no friend of ours. As to being a single issue voter, that is the only issue that matters to me. With weapons in our hands, they eventually willhave to do what we want, not the other way around. Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 6:15:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: [insert politician here] is a liar and a criminal.... The man is pathetic, he is a liar, he has no honor, he is a hypocrite.
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I just knew poor Hiram would be a Pataki apologist, no surprise there. Another vote for Golisan here.... Hiram, I sure as hell didn't see any Pataki minions at recent NYS gunshows handing out literature and raffles tickets (free of charge) for an Ithaca shotgun. Golisano, however, was well represented. P!ss on Elmer Pataki. A vote for this antigun hack is a wasted vote, thank you very much.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 6:57:54 AM EDT
Three years ago, Eyewitness News went undercover to expose how you could legally buy a small arsenal of weapons at guns shows in New York without any identification. Governor George Pataki, New York (February, 1999): "It's one that we will look into. I am clearly not comfortable that that can happen." After our investigation, the governor made background checks on the sale of all gun show firearms mandatory. Now, some are calling for him to do the same for private gun sales. [/quote} Nope, no more pataki.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 5:46:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 7:03:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: You do not want to debate taxes with me, I have worked as a public relations official on state tax issues for the past four years. I know the facts, you are discussing perceptions.
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And this says it all. I can tell you in 98 I paid 271k in state and local taxes, 99 I paid 298k in state and local taxes 2000 it was up to 365k in state and local taxes and finally 2001 came in just shy of 400K. Perception is, taxes just keep going up, and you want ot know who the buck stops with? The govenor. Golisano gets his shot, pataki had his and he, in my estimation, blew it, and badly. I understand politics Hiram, really I do. I understand something else, if we could get *one* guy in there who did not want to make it his lifes work, he could pretty much do as he pleased. Yes, I am sure you are saying to yourself, "but thats just not how it works", I say, yes, yes it is. He gets in there and promises the democratic swine that infest our capitals what ever they want to hear to get his stuff passed, then he silently fades away at the end of his term, laws overturned, taxes slashed, and unfortunately a few people who work for the government having to find real jobs. Government should and ought to be filled up with first termers, none of them really knowing how it works, all of them taking 3 1/2 years before they really know their way to the bathrooms. Highly inefficent, nothing gets done, life is good.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 7:07:25 PM EDT
Just to add one more thing to my generalized rant, every single new law that is passed does not increase our rights, nope, in fact every single time those guys get togehter and finally agree on something it has fursther narrowed our rights, some are taken completely away. Where is the politician that has a campaign based on doing away with ten laws for every new one they think we need? Shit, I would mortgage my property, sell my businesses and clear out the safes to fund that campaign. Who wouldn't?
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 7:17:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 7:29:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2002 7:31:48 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 7:38:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 7:39:17 PM EDT
And don't forget state borrowing: Under Pataki, state borrowing has increased at a higher rate than it did under Coumo. New York state has the highest debt of any state in the nation. Besides, Pataki sold gun-owners down the river with his "reasonable" gun control. It's time to send him down the river...
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 7:48:13 PM EDT
Pataki definitly sold out. But don't forget the Libertarian candidate, Scott Jeffery.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 7:51:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2002 7:54:32 PM EDT by HiramRanger]
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 8:41:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2002 8:54:29 PM EDT by HKgnnr]
Hiram, you've got yer ducks in a row, no doubt about that. GE laid off 44,000 workers, Troy Built shut down, Kodak layoffs. Theres not much a Governor can do if these companies decide the bottom line isnt good enough, understood. But KMart in Amsterdam - damn Hiram, I'm sure you've been there, the place is a shithole. Dont expect people to buy homes there with the looks of that place. IBM plant in Fishkill? Ya want me to move closer to NYC in order to get a decent job? And care to enlighten us on the TAX BREAKS KMart/IBM/WIDGETS INC received in order to build their plants here. I used to work at MetLife in Rensselaer - 'rumor' had it, 50 year state property tax deferment. Either way, they're laying off people today, with under 10 years in operation. Maybe I'm too narrow minded or have the proverbial blinders on, but theres one issue I dont budge on, and that firearm owners rights. I didnt expect when I cast my initial vote for Pataki that he'd sell us out like he did. And thats why I'm switching my voter registration after this election. A vote for Golisano may be a 'wasted vote' or increase McCalls chances (Which I highly doubt). But if we as gun owners would finally stand up for the one issue we all agree upon, maybe some of the politicians would take notice. Pataki will win, but with under 50% of the popular vote. Take fair warning my friend and pass the info along, he wont even get over 55%. How many gun owners in NY is Pataki going to lose as supporters in this and future elections?I for one won't forget. Recent gun club meeting was held - 30 people in attendance at the club - ALL but 5 said they will not be voting for Pataki as a RESULT OF THE CRIME BILL. Pataki blew it and we'll never trust him again. I guess this ruins my chances of getting a $8/hr job at the KMART plant huh? [;)]
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 8:54:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 4:21:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: As for economic development you might wish to read this site http://www.nylovesbiz.com/default.asp That is, if you want to be knowledgeable rather than anecdotal.
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. Hey, if you want to find out how bad the nazis were, look at the definitive source of information http://www.iloveadolph.com/ Or if you want to find out how conservative and unbiased the democrats are for real just check out http://www.democrat.gov/ Or how about how politicians will always tell you the truth, and never, never use questionable "facts" to try to pull the wool over itty bitty you's eyes got to http://www.nylovesbiz.com/default.asp Hey, after viewing that site, I am downright pleased to have given over a million friggin dollars to the fine republican politicians who run this state (Pataki does run it...right?) I mean, all thiose great social services that I never use, but damn, I get the warm and fuzzies knowing that somebody who doesn't want to bust their ass all day and most of the night, every night get to have, all because of little old me. All that "state operations, valued social programs, education assistance..." would just have shut down if it weren't forthe heroic actions of our great leader Pataki. Uh, valued social programs? Can anyone who isn't suckiling at the teat of government largesse think of a single "valued" social program? Hiram, you are a nice guy, I like you, but you have a dog in this hunt, your job is based on the state getting bigger and bigger. Mine doesn't. In fact the smaller the government gets, the better off I would do. That is the basic difference between the governemnt employee and the actual worker.
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 4:29:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Saying that government should be filled with one termers who don't know what they are doing is like saying that business should be filled with a bunch of people with no conceot of accounting, inventory control, customer service, marketing or profit maximization.
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You obvioulsy value a well run, streamlined, efficent governemnt (as your paycheck no doubt relies on the governemnts efficenices), I on the other hand want the government that I elect and pay for to be as woefully inefficient as possible, I want as little to get done as possible, I want gridlock at every turn, I want politicians to go home frustrated at the end of their term, with the failure of theirs to get anything done. I want social service agencies to collapse under their ineffectivness. You see, you as a government employee can not have our best interests in mind (namely to leave us and ours alone) as that would mean that you had a diminishment of power as a governemnt employee, with that diminishment of power you would also have a smaller or less regular paycheck. You depoend on the state to be efficent, while we, the electorate rely on it to be inefficent. Hiram, Government is not like business, not even in a passing sense, busioness can not take your property, under the color of law, business can not put you in jail business can not decide what is best for you and business can not mete out the fruits of your labor to anyone it sees fit, for whatever reason it sees fit. I think, it is in fact *you* who do not understand how the real world works Hiram, but you are blinded by your government job which allows you to think that you know what is really going on.
Government is not a business
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Which is it Hiram, is government like a business, or not?
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 4:35:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HKgnnr: Hiram, you've got yer ducks in a row, no doubt about that. GE laid off 44,000 workers, Troy Built shut down, Kodak layoffs. Theres not much a Governor can do if these companies decide the bottom line isnt good enough, understood. But KMart in Amsterdam - damn Hiram, I'm sure you've been there, the place is a shithole. Dont expect people to buy homes there with the looks of that place. IBM plant in Fishkill? Ya want me to move closer to NYC in order to get a decent job? And care to enlighten us on the TAX BREAKS KMart/IBM/WIDGETS INC received in order to build their plants here. I used to work at MetLife in Rensselaer - 'rumor' had it, 50 year state property tax deferment. Either way, they're laying off people today, with under 10 years in operation. Maybe I'm too narrow minded or have the proverbial blinders on, but theres one issue I dont budge on, and that firearm owners rights. I didnt expect when I cast my initial vote for Pataki that he'd sell us out like he did. And thats why I'm switching my voter registration after this election. A vote for Golisano may be a 'wasted vote' or increase McCalls chances (Which I highly doubt). But if we as gun owners would finally stand up for the one issue we all agree upon, maybe some of the politicians would take notice. Pataki will win, but with under 50% of the popular vote. Take fair warning my friend and pass the info along, he wont even get over 55%. How many gun owners in NY is Pataki going to lose as supporters in this and future elections?I for one won't forget. Recent gun club meeting was held - 30 people in attendance at the club - ALL but 5 said they will not be voting for Pataki as a RESULT OF THE CRIME BILL. Pataki blew it and we'll never trust him again. I guess this ruins my chances of getting a $8/hr job at the KMART plant huh? [;)]
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Just to back up a bit of this sentiment, My wife and I were at an after-halloween party last night in manhattan, about 50 good friends of ours were in attendance. Not a single one of them had a net worth of under 9 figures, and when the election came around, it got deathly silent, I was the first one to put out that I was going to vote for Golisano this time around, and to a person, they all agreed that Pataki had done nothing for them, that the republican party had pretty much used them as a scapegoat and to a person they were all in Golisano's camp. If I were on the republican parties payroll, that 30 minutes of discussion would have been enough to keep me up for quite a few sleepless nights. These are people who have donated millions of dollars over the past few years, that spigot (unless there is a good business reason) looks to be being turned down quite a bit. Chew on that anecdotal evidence for a while.
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 4:56:44 AM EDT
Come Tuesday Golisano takes upstate, McCall downstate (they vote blind dem), Pataki loses to McCall. I move out of state as soon as I can find a job elswhere. Gerry
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 5:00:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 5:03:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 5:11:00 AM EDT
Sorry Hiram, as much as I know you are true beleiver, I have to put my money with the tried and trued governemnt bribers. There is no such thing as good government, I truley beleive with every fiber of my being, that the best government is the governemnt that governs least. I truley don't want an efficent government and the thought of schools putting out people with MPA's sickens my stomach, but to each their own Hiram. Pataki may win this time, but those of us who have had enough will make sure it does not happen next go around.
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 5:12:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Come on Ger, Golisano might take upstate by a few percentage points, McCall only leads in the City by a few percentage points and the Governor is kicking ass in the Suburbs of NYC which is where voter turnout and about 40% of the electorate is. I don't think it is going to be the 20% blowout that Marist is now indicating, but McCall is currently worried about coming in third behind Golisano. If Golisano wins I may be looking to leave the State.
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But why? Wouldn't you want to try to make it better?
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 5:15:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2002 5:16:32 AM EDT by HiramRanger]
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 5:19:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 5:33:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Hielo writes: "Just to back up a bit of this sentiment, My wife and I were at an after-halloween party last night in manhattan, about 50 good friends of ours were in attendance. Not a single one of them had a net worth of under 9 figures, and when the election came around, it got deathly silent, I was the first one to put out that I was going to vote for Golisano this time around, and to a person, they all agreed that Pataki had done nothing for them, that the republican party had pretty much used them as a scapegoat and to a person they were all in Golisano's camp." Sorry I can't resist, so what you are telling me is you are in a room full of people with a net worth of $100 million or more and they have decided to the one to vote for a fellow mega-millionaire who thinks that the Governor's mansion is his to buy as is everything else? This is a toy for Golisano, an ego booster. What do you do with that kind of money? You feed your ego. You buy $60 million of ad time so you can cause a stir and have everybody saying your name. I'm not surprised he found a warm and receptive audience among you and your friends. You are the special interest he is catering to. :) But what do I know, I'm just one of those lazy and dumb state workers who couldn't hack a regular 40 hour work week... what would I do with an extra 20 hours of time a week?
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Be that as it may (your work that is), Golisano has used the tool available to him to do what he can. I wonder (and maybe you can tell me), how much is the combined ads, lets say, all the signage on roadways that we the taxpayers pay for, promoting the govenor, all the tv time featuring George, all the documents that are printed at our expense, but are in thanks to the Govenor, etc. How much does all this cost, 90 million? I don't know oif a single government projec tthat is statewide that can come in under 10 million,a nd there are what? A hundred or a hundred and a half of these "Remember me, the govenor, who did all these wonderful things for you and fixed all these roads you are driving on right now". I for one respect a man who is willing to put his money on the line, instead of stealing other peoples money to do it with. I myself do very little ego feeding with my money Hiram. I do manage it with an eye that it is really not mine, that it is my wife and children's. Of course, I know that I am mistaken there, it is really the states to do with as it sees fit, but I live in hope (oh, and I live with a number of good accountants and lawyers ). Ha. Since my wife stayed in Manhattan last night I have no one to tell this to right now, so here goes. My daughter goes to a fancy prep school (yes, really expensive, but she is doing calculus in 4th grade, what are they doing for math in public school at fourth grade?) Every friday is pizza day, where the little loves get to have some good, italian pizza, bought from a real pizza shop in town, as opposed to eating what their 5 4 star chefs produce for them dailey. Of course they must manage their own money at this school, and pizza day costs 3 dollars (the horrors, 2 slices of pie, a piece of fruit and a drink). My daughter forgot her 3 dollars and was given the pizza, fruit and juice anyway. She told me about this early this morning and I got on the phone and got the headmistress out of bed and gave her a good chewing over for this. How is my daughter supposed to learn about the seriousness of money, if it is not treated seriously? Can she expect a handout, just because her belly is rumbling? For some reason it really pissed me off. Why wasn't she made to wash her fellow school chums dishes for her meal? Why wasn't she given a loan agreement with interest charged? Seem silly to you Hiram? I am raising my children to be on the top of the pile, not part of the pile. That might be my ego booster Hiram, but thanks for listening, I still am pissed off at it.
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 5:36:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: LOL Hielo, your own words earlier were that you would grind government to a halt with one termers. I may be a masochist to work for the people of this state for peanuts, but I'm not an idiot. If Golisano gets elected nothing happens in this state for four years, and we are at a crossroads where this state will either flourish or wither away. Inaction will lead to the latter and Golisano will find himself unable to achieve anything after his slash and burn candidacy. Anyway gentleman, I need to get going. Three days until the elections!
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Good luck Hiram, and remember to Vote .
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 6:08:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 6:11:23 AM EDT
I simply for the life of me don't understand why you guys who constantly complain about the Republican Party don't just use the simple expedient of joining the party, attending the meetings, voting your consciences, and moving the Republican Party of New York over to the right on the RKBA? I mean we all hear the tales of derring-do that will occur when 'they come for our guns', but wouldn't taking over the Republican Party be significantly easier and less messy than the TEOTWAWKI scenario? If you want to see a Republican Party in action, just come to Texas, where every state-wide elected official is a Republican, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future! And how do they view the RKBA? Do you even have to ask? [:D] Eric The(YeeeHaawww!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 7:45:11 AM EDT
I've got to ask... Hielo talks about his taxes rising from a mere 270K per year to around 400k a year and blames that on Pataki. He specifically mentions property taxes and as Hiram mentions, fails to associate those tax figures with income. Hielo, how much has your income risen as a percentage in the past 8 years? Don't tell me an exact figure, just give us a percentage. Then figure out how much your tax burden in NY has risen in the same time period as a percentage. Of course you may want to factor in assetts that you may have converted from non-taxable to taxable status during that time. Also, if you increased your real estate properties in the state during that period you became subject to more state and municipal property taxes. A lot of folks like to blame all the bad things that happen on the chief of the executive branch, forgetting that there is also a legislature that actually exerts most of the legislative and regulatory power. For instance...Clinton takes the credit for all the economic development of the 1990's, forgetting that a republican dominated congress pretty much handed everything to him on a silver platter. You are doing the same thing to Pataki in reverse. You are blaming him for a lot of the crap that others, over whom he rightly has NO CONTROL, have done. Most property taxes for instance are enacted at a local level. New York is worse than most thanks to a plurality of county and local sales and property taxes. The state property tax was enacted by....ready for this....Democrats in the LEGISLATURE. Did Pataki sign it? I don't know, but it's highly likely that failing to sign it would either have resulted in a major policy loss somewhere else for Pataki, or a veto overide vote. Pataki has worked to reduce that tax burden, but as Hiram pointed out, many of the counties and local municipalities offset those reducations by upping their own property taxes, taxes that Pataki has no control over. Making this worse is the fact that the majority of voters, even those who are diligent in state and federal office voting, fail to pay any attention to local elections and politics, so the local political hacks have a fairly free hand to operate as they choose. They only need to watch themselves during the elections that coincide with major federal level elections. Most folks couldn't name a single town selectperson, and forget about county legislators, they are just too remote seeming. Yet they are the ones who impact your property taxes the most. Big property owners and those who own property in multiple towns and counties need to pay attention to activities in ALL of them or get nickled and dimed to death by a bunch of politicians whose names they don't even know. But hell, it's just plain easier to blame it all on a single guy. By the way, if Golisano pulls the spoiler thing like Perot did to Dole in 96, and loses Pataki the election, you can COUNT on things getting exponentially worse under Carl Marx, I mean McCall.
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