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Posted: 10/31/2002 4:22:28 PM EDT
Alright I got ticketed for failure to stop at a stop sign. It was dark, and people were parked poorly, etc. Just didn't see the damn thing. Cop was there (didn't see him either), got pulled over. Normally I would just eat it (first ticket ever, though). I didn't see it, my fault for failure to keep a proper lookout. And hell, Failure to Stop is a $25 fine. Or it's supposed to. Here's from my ticket Fine:$25 E.M.S. : $10 (some Emergency Services Act) CAT: $30 (Catastrophic Loss Benefits Continuation Fund, whatever) JCP: $10.00 (1.50 is crossed out to read 10.00)(Judicial Computer Project) Costs: $28.50 Total: $103.50 Fuck that. I don't mind paying a minor fine for a minor violation, but $103.50? I know a guy who got picked up for 65 in a 55 and got $83.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 4:25:27 PM EDT
Take it to court and ask for a Deferment. That means, if you get no more tickets within 1 years time, this one gets dropped, and your record is still clear.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 4:28:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 4:38:58 PM EDT
hmmmm, a tax collector, errr, I mean cop, was sitting at just the right spot near an obscured stop sign and at the end of the month no less. Go figure [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 4:44:41 PM EDT
They were funding a campaign finance fund here in AZ up until a few months ago with a tax on traffic tickets. A judge finally declared in illegal. Find out from the court if any part of the sentence gets even worse if you fight it, and if not, fight it. If you loose, you will still be out the same money. Check for points differences on a Nolo plea, or a guilty plea if you fight it. It is after all, a moving violation. Jay [img]http://members.cox.net/azcop/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 5:00:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZCOP: Check for points differences on a Nolo plea, or a guilty plea if you fight it. It is after all, a moving violation. Jay
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What's a "Nolo" plea?
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 5:05:54 PM EDT
nolo contendere (sp?) = "no contest." prolly not a points difference. was the sign obscured at all? if you think it may have been, go back to the scene, take pictures under similar conditions, and fight the ticket. and/or ask to pay the fine and have the ticket dropped. often they'll do that. then you don;t get the insurance-elevating points, and they get their moolah, which was likely the point to begin with.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 5:09:30 PM EDT
nolo = no lo contarde (latin) = no contest (english)
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 5:20:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2002 5:26:42 PM EDT by jrzy]
Check the laws in Pa. and find out if there is a height requirement for traffic signs, if so it will have a minimum height for the bottom of the sign,If there is a height requirement for traffic signs and your stop sign does not meet the legal requirement you will be able to very quietly have the ticket dismissed,they don't want everyone to know about such laws. I have beat several tickets this way and it works ,no shit! Edited to add that you can check with your dept. of transportation for the state of Pa.(commonwealth) and they should have the statute and ask for a copy to show the prosecutor and the Judge,most times they are unaware of obscure statutes like these. Also have someone take a picture of you standing next to the sign for comparison.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 5:41:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 5:44:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SPECTRE: hmmmm, a tax collector, errr, I mean cop, was sitting at just the right spot near an obscured stop sign and at the end of the month no less. Go figure [rolleyes]
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Had not met his quota....ya think???
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 5:49:26 PM EDT
i HATE to do this but here is another interesting thread. it wasnt the red goat that stopped you was it? [url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=147779[/url]
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 6:01:05 PM EDT
Yeah, I got a ticket in PA a couple of years ago. I saw all the crap added on to the fine and told them to kiss my a$$. A $43 dollar fine for speeding on the interstate, turning into a $145 total. Still haven't paid, and PA ain't never gonna see me or my money again. Friggin crooks! BTW I was tempted to send just the $43 but the ticket specifically stated that if the total wasn't paid, then a warrant would still be issued. I would pay my $43 fine, but they can forget seeing the rest, so they are the reason it hasn't been paid.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 6:11:17 PM EDT
Here a stop sign ticket is $147.00
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 6:20:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 6:21:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tc6969:
Originally Posted By AZCOP: If you loose, you will still be out the same money.
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Does that mean the money will be "lost?"
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Only from Spade's wallet. Jay [img]http://members.cox.net/azcop/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 6:36:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZCOP:
Originally Posted By tc6969:
Originally Posted By AZCOP: If you loose, you will still be out the same money.
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Does that mean the money will be "lost?"
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Only from Spade's wallet. Jay [url]http://members.cox.net/azcop/images/iroc-cop.gif[/url]
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Ohhhh, that money's going towards this SAR-1 my gun shop has.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 6:39:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spade: Alright I got ticketed for failure to stop at a stop sign. It was dark, and people were parked poorly, etc. Just didn't see the damn thing. Cop was there (didn't see him either), got pulled over. Normally I would just eat it (first ticket ever, though). I didn't see it, my fault for failure to keep a proper lookout. And hell, Failure to Stop is a $25 fine. Or it's supposed to. Here's from my ticket Fine:$25 E.M.S. : $10 (some Emergency Services Act) CAT: $30 (Catastrophic Loss Benefits Continuation Fund, whatever) JCP: $10.00 (1.50 is crossed out to read 10.00)(Judicial Computer Project) Costs: $28.50 Total: $103.50 Fuck that. I don't mind paying a minor fine for a minor violation, but $103.50? I know a guy who got picked up for 65 in a 55 and got $83.
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Damn, you can get thrown in jail and get served something to eat for less, here in Texas. That sucks but what can you do but pay it? You could fight it in court and stand the chance of probably still costing you the same amount, unless they tack on another fee, plus being out the time to mess with it but what's the point? If you don't want it on your record I'm sure you could work a deal and take DD, but you're still out the same amount of money for the ticket, then some more for the DD class, plus your time again. Then again, you could always just pay your money and take it out on an unsuspecting cops tires while he's fighting crime at the local doughnut shop, so at least you would get your money's worth. [:)]
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 6:54:03 PM EDT
Spade, Failure to stop at a stop sign is 3 points in PA. Goto court and see if you can work out a deal with the cop before you go in to the courtroom. Usually if the cop is not a real asshole and you were polite to him when pulled over they will agree to let you plead guilty to a violation that carries no points. Ask him if he will let you plead guilty to a 3111 failure to obey traffic control devices. This carries no points, however the fines will be about the same. I've done this several times in the suburbs. To me the main thing is to avoid points because that is what raises your insurance rates.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 7:43:22 PM EDT
Well, I went back to the place I got stopped. Drew a diagram of the intersection, and took pictures that show the sign is not illuminated by any light source. I also have my sister to say that vehicles WERE parked in a manner that would obstruct my vision of the sign. I believe you have to be parked 30 ft from a stop sign. If all else fails:
Amendment VIII Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
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I think a 414% increase over the fine listed in the statute is "excessive"
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 8:42:01 PM EDT
A word of caution about ignoring tickets from other states, both Colorado and Pennsylvania are Non-resident Violator Compact States. Which means that once Pennsylvania decides that you really are blowing them off (and it can take a few years), they can tell Colorado to suspend your Driver's License here until you pay, and after that Colorado will charge an additional forty dollars to get your license back. [url=http://www.mv.state.co.us/FAQdc.htm#6.]see questions 32, and 33[/url] Just thought you might wanna know
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 9:19:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2002 9:20:19 PM EDT by jrzy]
[green]I found it![/green] [red]If the stop sign you "ran" does not meet these rquirements you have a slam dunk win.[/red] [url]http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/067/chapter211/chap211toc.html#211.7.[/url] [b]This section cited in 67 Pa. Code § 211.25 (relating to dimensions). § 211.30. Installation of signs. (a) Height. Except as authorized elsewhere in this chapter or in Chapter 203 (relating to work zone traffic control are the same for all state traffic sigs), height requirements shall be as follows: (1) Signs erected at the side of the road in rural districts shall be mounted at a height of at least 5 feet, measured from the bottom of the sign to the near edge of the pavement. In business, commercial, and residential districts when parking or pedestrian movement is likely to occur or when there are other obstructions to view, the clearance to the bottom of the sign shall be at least 7 feet. The height to the bottom of a secondary sign mounted below another sign may be one foot less than the appropriate height specified in this paragraph. (2) The height requirements for ground installations on expressways vary somewhat from those on conventional streets and highways. Directional signs on expressways shall be erected with a minimum height of 7 feet from the level of the near edge of the pavement to the bottom of the sign. If, however, a secondary sign is mounted below another sign, the major sign shall be at least 8 feet and the secondary sign at least 5 feet above the level of the pavement edge. All route markers and warning and regulatory signs on expressways shall be at least 6 feet above the level of the pavement edge.[/b]
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 6:54:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jrzy: [green]I found it![/green] [red]If the stop sign you "ran" does not meet these rquirements you have a slam dunk win.[/red] [url]http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/067/chapter211/chap211toc.html#211.7.[/url] [b]This section cited in 67 Pa. Code § 211.25 (relating to dimensions). § 211.30. Installation of signs.
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Thanks jrzy! I spent two hours at PACode and missed that. I know the sign violates at least one.
(b) Lateral clearance. Requirements for lateral clearance shall be as follows: (1) Signs should have the maximum practical lateral clearance from the edge of the traveled way for the safety of motorists who may leave the roadway and strike the sign supports. Advantage should be taken of existing guardrail overcrossing structures and other conditions to minimize the exposure of sign supports to traffic. Otherwise, breakaway or yielding supports should be used. (2) Normally, signs should not be closer than 6 feet from the edge of the shoulder, or if none, 12 feet from the edge of the traveled way. In urban areas, a lesser clearance may be used when necessary. A clearance of one foot from the curb face is permissible when sidewalk width is limited or when existing poles are close to the curb.
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The sign is right next to the frigging curb. Which is why I think an SUV parked close to it managed to block the sign. My little sisters swears up and down that she only saw cars, and she was in the passenger seat. I'll go measure for the rest now.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 10:48:54 AM EDT
Well, I measured the sign. 11.5 inches from the curb. .5 inches short. It also is only 6 feet 2.5 inches tall (from pavement to bottom of sign). With the secondary sign under it, it should be 8 feet tall. Even without the secondary is should be 7ft since it's a residential district. Thanks jrzy, you may have save me 100 bucks.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 11:10:18 AM EDT
Make sure that you come back and tell us exactly what happened. Take notes. We love this stuff!
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 12:54:52 PM EDT
Everybody listen up!!! Go to the National Motorist Association web site and read it all. The best defense for a ticket is to be prepared. A stop sign can be beat easier than a speeding ticket. Few signs comfort to the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices. Some may even violate the Americans with Disabilities Act. At one time this was a guide from the FEDs but now it is law. A traffic engineer found that out here in my town not long ago. Also, always go to court. The cop may not show up? The last two times my wife got a ticket she cross examined the officers and they talked her out of the tickets. Good luck
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 8:04:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_A: nolo = no lo contarde (latin) = no contest (english)
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Actually Spiro Agnew used that same phrase,it then and now means simply I may have done it,but deny all and its up to you to prove otherwise! Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 8:27:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Roadkillcoyote: A word of caution about ignoring tickets from other states, both Colorado and Pennsylvania are Non-resident Violator Compact States. Which means that once Pennsylvania decides that you really are blowing them off (and it can take a few years), they can tell Colorado to suspend your Driver's License here until you pay, and after that Colorado will charge an additional forty dollars to get your license back. [url=http://www.mv.state.co.us/FAQdc.htm#6.]see questions 32, and 33[/url] Just thought you might wanna know
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[:D] Should be good to go, as I was driving on a Conn. License at the time. I was moving to Colorado. We'll see though......
Link Posted: 11/3/2002 11:58:26 AM EDT
spade don't forget to let us know what happens.
Link Posted: 11/18/2002 1:52:05 PM EDT
I thought unpaid tickets could get an arrest warrant ???
Originally Posted By thedave1164:
Originally Posted By Roadkillcoyote: A word of caution about ignoring tickets from other states, both Colorado and Pennsylvania are Non-resident Violator Compact States. Which means that once Pennsylvania decides that you really are blowing them off (and it can take a few years), they can tell Colorado to suspend your Driver's License here until you pay, and after that Colorado will charge an additional forty dollars to get your license back. [url=http://www.mv.state.co.us/FAQdc.htm#6.]see questions 32, and 33[/url] Just thought you might wanna know
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[:D] Should be good to go, as I was driving on a Conn. License at the time. I was moving to Colorado. We'll see though......
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