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Posted: 10/31/2002 10:19:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2002 10:21:34 AM EDT by Imbroglio]
[url=www.jewishsf.com/bk990910/ussermons.shtml]Jewish lobbyists take aim at stricter gun control laws[/url] DANIEL KURTZMAN Jewish Telegraphic Agency WASHINGTON -- After a summer marred by anti-Semitic violence, Jewish lobbyists are vowing to push lawmakers to enact stricter laws to combat hate crimes and control guns. As Congress returned this week from its August recess, both efforts are likely to garner a high profile, although it remains unclear whether meaningful changes will be adopted. On the domestic front, top concerns for the Jewish community include ensuring greater protections for free religious practice and maintaining current spending levels for social service programs. In the international arena, the focus is on efforts to contain Iran and to secure funding for Israel and the Palestinians to implement the Wye River accord. Gun control, meanwhile, is shaping up as the toughest battle. One effort, being led by the American Jewish Congress, seeks to build grassroots support for sweeping federal gun control legislation. The group hopes to gain support for proposals that require all gun buyers to pass background checks and all guns be licensed and registered, much like cars. "The problem is that Congress has failed to enact effective gun control legislation and we believe, as many do, that there are a substantial number of lawmakers who would support meaningful gun control legislation if they had the chance to do so," said Matthew Dorf, director of the AJCongress' office in Washington. The organized Jewish community has been calling for more stringent gun control measures for years, but what was once considered something of a low-priority issue has taken on a new sense of urgency. "There were lots of members of the Jewish community who had glazed eyes when we talked about gun control and gun safety issues in the past,'' said Michael Lieberman, the Anti-Defamation League's Washington counsel. [b]"Unfortunately, I think Buford Furrow and Benjamin Smith have gotten the attention of the Jewish community as to why gun control is a Jewish issue."[/b] Furrow and Smith are the white supremacists suspected in the shootings of Jews and other minorities in California and Illinois, respectively. At the same time, recent hate crimes have also generated momentum for legislation aimed at strengthening the federal hate crimes statute. In July, the Senate unanimously approved the Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which allows the federal government to prosecute hate crimes sparked by sexual orientation, gender and disability. Current federal law applies only to crimes motivated by race, color, religion or national origin. The House has already held hearings on the measure, but it remains unclear whether there will be enough support to overcome opposition from conservative Republicans, who have argued that the bill applies to citizens who are already protected under existing state laws against violence. On the religious freedom front, the Jewish community's long-standing goal of ensuring that Americans can practice their religion free from government intrusion faces an uncertain fate. As the Religious Liberty Protection Act moved through the House earlier this year, support began breaking down among Democrats amid a dispute over whether religious liberty or civil rights laws should take precedence when the two come into conflict. At issue is the question of whether the proposed legislation could be used to justify violations of state or local anti-discrimination laws. Opponents argue that landlords and employers in states and cities with laws prohibiting discrimination against homosexuals could invoke their religious principles as a defense for refusing to rent to or hire gays and lesbians. "RLPA should be a shield for the religious liberty of all -- not a sword against the civil rights of some," said Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.), an original sponsor of the bill who ultimately voted against it. Jewish activists, meanwhile, will also be focusing their attention on a host of other issues in the domestic and international arenas, among them: *Social spending: Republican lawmakers have proposed scaling back social service block grants to the states and other programs that help fund local federation agencies, Jewish nursing homes, hospitals and various human services. *The Ten Commandments: In June, the House adopted an amendment to the juvenile justice bill that permits states to allow the display of the Ten Commandments in schools and other public places. The move has drawn swift condemnation from Jewish groups and church-state watchdogs. *Containment of Iran: Pro-Israel activists will be pushing for passage of the Iran Non-Proliferation Act, which halts some future U.S. payments to Russia if it helps Iran develop weapons of mass destruction. *Aid to Israel and the Palestinians: Activists plan to urge Congress to approve the $1.2 billion in special aid for Israel and $400 million for the Palestinians that President Clinton promised last year in return for implementation of the Wye agreement. *Holocaust assets: Jewish groups are supporting legislation that would exempt Holocaust survivors from paying federal income taxes on payments stemming from settlements of Holocaust-era claims.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 10:26:02 AM EDT
Amazing.... What part of SELF DEFENSE to people NOT understand?
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 10:32:52 AM EDT
You'd think that Hitler would have killed every last bit of statism in the Jewish people, yet here they are, not even a century later, making the exact same mistake they made that led to the death of 6 million Jews alone. Schmucks!
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 10:43:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: *The Ten Commandments: In June, the House adopted an amendment to the juvenile justice bill that permits states to allow the display of the Ten Commandments in schools and other public places. The move has drawn swift condemnation from Jewish groups and church-state watchdogs.
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Jewish groups are against the Ten Comandments? WTF?
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 10:51:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2002 10:53:12 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: The group hopes to gain support for proposals that require all gun buyers to pass background checks and all guns be licensed and registered, much like cars. [red]The organized Jewish community has been calling for more stringent gun control measures for years,[/red]... "There were lots of members of the Jewish community who had glazed eyes when we talked about gun control and gun safety issues in the past,'' said Michael Lieberman, the Anti-Defamation League's Washington counsel. "Unfortunately, I think Buford Furrow and Benjamin Smith have gotten the attention of the Jewish community as to [red]why gun control is a Jewish issue."[/red]
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[b]Ich stimme zu! Konfiszieren Sie ALLE Gewehren! Besonders Gewehren besessen von den Juden!" [img]http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/holocaust/essaypics/vinica.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 10:53:10 AM EDT
[b]This group stands for ANYTHING (in their sole opinion) that furthers the State of Israel.[/b] They care nothing about what furthers the interest of the United States. Nothing. The U.S. taxpayer (and the U.S.) are simply the dumb asses that are needed to pay for anything furthering the interests of the State of Israel.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 10:56:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: You'd think that Hitler would have killed every last bit of statism in the Jewish people, yet here they are, not even a century later, making the exact same mistake they made that led to the death of 6 million Jews alone. Schmucks!
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I agree. One would think that the Jewish people, of all people, would understand the importance of self-defense and the futility of gun control laws. How sad. [V]
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 11:02:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JonnieGTyler:
Originally Posted By trickshot: You'd think that Hitler would have killed every last bit of statism in the Jewish people, yet here they are, not even a century later, making the exact same mistake they made that led to the death of 6 million Jews alone. Schmucks!
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I agree. One would think that the Jewish people, of all people, would understand the importance of self-defense and the futility of gun control laws. How sad. [V]
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No NO these people are NOT making the same mistakes less than a century later !! They are arming Israel to the teeth it's the rest of the world the choose to disarm.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 11:05:15 AM EDT
sorry but as a Jew myself, this article just down right offends me. just becasue your liberal and a jew, dosent mean that all jew's are liberal. its simply a political group trying to further its cause by saying that it represents a whole race\religion. nothing more, nothing less. most jewish people i know shutter at the sounds of words like "registration" and "licencing" about anything. in short, dont take this article as a representation of the whole jewish community.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 11:22:18 AM EDT
Yes, gun control is a Jewish issue. Especially to [url=www.jpfo.org]these people.[/url]
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 11:33:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Raptor1911: sorry but as a Jew myself, this article just down right offends me. just becasue your liberal and a jew, dosent mean that all jew's are liberal. its simply a political group trying to further its cause by saying that it represents a whole race\religion. nothing more, nothing less. most jewish people i know shutter at the sounds of words like "registration" and "licencing" about anything. in short, dont take this article as a representation of the whole jewish community.
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I know what you are saying as I know several Jewish gun owners and am very aware of the JPFO. What I have a MAJOR PROBLEM with is that the Israel lobby groups and Jewish leaders who call for the U.S. to protect Israel are the same ones pushing for the destruction of OUR Constitution and Bill of Rights. If this goes on for very much longer GUN OWNERS in the U.S. will legislatively become the equivalent of the Palestinians, but I guess that is just fine with some people. There was a quote as to what would bring the downfall of the U.S. IIRC it went something like this: "Treachery from within and arms from without." Here is another disturbing article that came out before the first Million Mom March: [url=www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/000505/moms.shtml]Moms will rally for gun control on Mother's Day[/url] The Bible, especially Isaiah, offers guidance on how to address gun control issues, says Temple Chai's Rabbi William Berk. Berk will speak at the Million Mom March rally Sunday, May 14, at Patriots Square Park in downtown Phoenix. "That (Isaiah 2:4) is the vision for the future," Berk said. [b]"I'm going to suggest that there is a document that is older, and at least as prestigious as, the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights, and that is the Bible. I think we need to give that at least as much weight as the Second Amendment."[/b]
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 11:40:57 AM EDT
As a jew, NRA Life, JFPO and cop...groups that want to disarm are pathetic....'Never Again' means get your guns, we are not going quietly. FOr years they hid the Avengers, and other groups that fought the Nazis. They want you to be be quiet and behave....R. Kahanie was a nut but had some very strong ideas.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 11:48:34 AM EDT
From the article: Moms will rally for gun control on Mother's Day "Million Mom March organizers support tougher gun-control laws To promote the local rally, Temple Beth Israel, 10460 N. 56th St. in Scottsdale, will host Gerry Anderson, a Million Mom March representative, at noon on Sunday, May 7. She will provide material about gun-control legislation. Ceil Siegel, of the Temple Solel Sisterhood and Social Action Committee, said her congregation "constantly informs people of (gun-control) bills." Temple members have been urged to call their legislators about gun laws, Siegel said. "This is just a rally that we are asking our membership to come to, to support this group," she said. Temple Solel will provide bus transportation to the rally. To reserve a seat, call Siegel at 480-367-9072. Those wishing to carpool should meet at 1:30 p.m. at the temple, 6805 E. McDonald Drive, Paradise Valley. Jan Binder, co-chairwoman of the Phoenix rally, said as many as 1,000 people are expected to attend." I am not a lawyer, but wouldn't this political lobbying violate the 501(c)(3) tax exempt status of the Temple?
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 11:55:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: Here is another disturbing article that came out before the first Million Mom March: [url=www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/000505/moms.shtml]Moms will rally for gun control on Mother's Day[/url] The Bible, especially Isaiah, offers guidance on how to address gun control issues, says Temple Chai's Rabbi William Berk. Berk will speak at the Million Mom March rally Sunday, May 14, at Patriots Square Park in downtown Phoenix. [red]"That (Isaiah 2:4) is the vision for the future," Berk said.[/red]
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I [b][red]HATE[/red][/b] it when people quote Bible verses OUT OF CONTEXT!!! [u]Isaiah 2:[/u] 1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 [red]And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.[/red] [i]{Okay - now this hasn't happened yet has it????? But when it does... THEN the following will happen...}[/i] 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 [red]And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. [/red] Okay... do you see now? The "beat their swords into plowshares" bit doesn't come until AFTER the Lord's House is established and He is ruling on Earth (i.e., after Christ's second coming for Christians). But leave it to a liberal to take even Bible quotes out of context and use them for their own agenda! [pissed]
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 12:07:40 PM EDT
Psalm 144:1 "Blessed be the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle."
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 12:16:08 PM EDT
I have an idea.. all the Jewish people who are pro gun control should be given a one way ticket to Isreal and let them SEE WHY we fight anti-gun measures. I say we start with Funkswine, Boxer and Waxman(is he Jewish??) Send them into a Palistinian encampment with a big Star of David and NO guns and see if they come out alive. And no, I'm not anti-Jew, and fully support aid to Isreal. I just find it hard to fathom the fact that so many Jews easily forget where gun control got them in the 30's and 40's....
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 12:22:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2002 12:23:49 PM EDT by sesat_ram]
Please write to the American Jewish Congress and tell them how you feel as a fellow Jew, and tell them to STFU. [url]mailto:pr@ajcongress.org[/url] (i don't know why the link doesn't work)
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 12:26:26 PM EDT
arab-israelis who are citizens of israel, are allowed to vote, but are NOT allowed to own guns. i guess israel is still a democracy LOL.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 12:30:13 PM EDT
arab-israelis who are citizens of israel are allowed to vote, but are NOT allowed to own guns. i guess israel is still a democracy, LOL.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 12:32:14 PM EDT
Here is my take on American Judaism and Political issues. I think that most of the Liberal American Jews are descended from people who did NOT experience the Holocaust directly. Whereas most Conservative Jews had a immediate family member who was in Occupied Europe/Russia during WWII. Also many Liberal Jews are for the most part secular. Many Liberals believe that America is an exceptional place that is immune to possibility of totalitarianism and genocide. They also think that for the most part, they will be able to "control" the Federal and State Governments. Because of this, the fact that they are attempting to systematically disarm people through encroaching gun control legislation is a good thing and will not contribute to genocide because such things are "impossible" in America. (Too bad that they don't pay attention to the experiences of Native American Indians or the Japanese Americans who were interned during WWII).
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 12:37:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JonnieGTyler: One would think that the Jewish people, of all people, would understand the importance of self-defense and the futility of gun control laws.
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Oh but they support Jews in Israel being armed to the teeth with machine guns, yet most Jews in the US support control. It would be bad enough if Jews pushed gun control for Jews but it's another thing entirely that they push it for non-Jews as well. As usual they are talking as if they speak for all ethnicities in the US. I can hardly believe the support that people on this site have for Jews and the Zionist agenda. Most Jews support gun control (read gun BAN). Don't support those who support gun control.
Originally Posted By Raptor1911: in short, dont take this article as a representation of the whole jewish community.
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Sorry, but that's just not true. Most Jews in the US, whether or not affiliated with Jewish lobby groups, support gun control. Where you have concentrations of Jewish people you have gun control. It's a fact - you are in the minority (among Jews).
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 12:39:52 PM EDT
Gun control is a HATE crime, groups lobbying for more are HATE organizations.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 4:22:24 PM EDT
Most of the liberal Jews, have never worked for a living, they are educated and think every one is like them. They are prepared to put their foot firmly down in the air.rst They might be Jews but they are liberals first.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 4:34:38 PM EDT
And THIS is what I've been talking about all along. Very few of us resent anyone based upon their religion. But for some reason that is BEYOND my understanding, a great majority of American Jews continue to destroy this country and disarm it's population with this crap. And at the very same time do pretty much the exact opposite where it concerns Israel. If Israel let private citizens own and drive tanks American Jews would not bat an eye and would explain how it is crucial to protect Jewish settlements, etc. BUT, if a US citizen (especially a non jew) owns anything more than a muzzle loading flintlock they have a problem. And they think you should be investigated, fingerprinted, analyzed and put under surveillence if you DO own a muzzle loading flintlock. And yes they are making the exact smae mistakes made in the 1930s all over again.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 4:39:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2002 4:39:59 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
[b]SA[/b], check your PM at FA, OK?
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 4:39:29 PM EDT
Erinnern Sie einfach daran, daß es Juden in den Gettos gab, die mehr als glücklich prey auf ihren Gefährten für einen ' Sitz am Tisch des Meisters ' waren. Selbstverständlich habe ich keine große Liebe für Zionists. When will the world see that man's biggest problem is man, not Jews, not Muslims, nor Christians or athiests. Man's own brutal nature is what drives him into the open arms of satan. Screw them, screw them all, I wont join their society.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 4:46:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 5:06:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2002 5:17:11 PM EDT by Happyshooter]
I posted some time ago about the time when I faced down the jewish students at Michigan Law in one of my classes (no need to say liberal there). They were going on and on and on about my lai and how it proved all US Military were evil and on and on.... over and over so I jumped the topic to the jewish court torture orders in Israel against arabs...they tried to jump the subject back to the US a few times, but I firmly kept the topic on their holy government, and that was the end of that...FOR GOOD in that class, like it never came up again ever. The whole subject and even idea of entity or group evil had just ... died... and was gone.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 5:15:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chimborazo: Yes, gun control is a Jewish issue. Especially to [url=www.jpfo.org]these people.[/url]
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Dammit, Chimborazo! Ya beat me to it.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 10:32:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: If any of you all have actually talked, one-on-one with a Liberal Jew about this exct issue, I'd like to hear about it. I know I have.
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One of the Jewish gun owners I know has VERY LIBERAL Jewish grandparents. He told me that they are so anti-gun he is afraid to even wear any gun related T-shirts around them. They not only receive propaganda from but GENEROUSLY contribute to HCI (now the Brady Campaign), Anti-Defamation League and Southern Poverty Law Center. In effect they have been brainwashed into believing GUNS OWNERS=ANTI-SEMITES/NAZIS. Now, these are naive old folks (75+), but the younger ones supporting these Constitution destroying organizations are doing nothing but exhibiting a victim mentality. I am getting just as tired of people using the Holocaust as an excuse to push a political agenda as people who keep using slavery to try to get a handout.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 10:50:59 PM EDT
Oi ! [soapbox]
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 6:27:41 AM EDT
Well, if we are going to be a little PC/nonPC today here is an article that is certainly nonPC: http://www.natvan.com/national-vanguard/assorted/guncontrol.html
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 6:52:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hercules2400: Well, if we are going to be a little PC/nonPC today here is an article that is certainly nonPC: http://www.natvan.com/national-vanguard/assorted/guncontrol.html
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No-PC? Try NSDAP. I can only imagine what THEIR New World Order will look like. These Cro-magnons' warped view of history is as much a disservice to the cause of RKBA as HCI and all the Bradys and Feinsteins put together. .................................... "Two and two the mathematician continues to make four, in spite of the whine of the amateur for three, or the cry of the critic for five." -James McNeill Whistler, "Whistler v. Ruskin"
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 7:00:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: [b]This group stands for ANYTHING (in their sole opinion) that furthers the State of Israel.[/b] They care nothing about what furthers the interest of the United States. Nothing. The U.S. taxpayer (and the U.S.) are simply the dumb asses that are needed to pay for anything furthering the interests of the State of Israel.
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and you sir are simply a 1 note dumb ass...
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 9:57:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RebelGray: Erinnern Sie einfach daran, daß es Juden in den Gettos gab, die mehr als glücklich prey auf ihren Gefährten für einen ' Sitz am Tisch des Meisters ' waren. Selbstverständlich habe ich keine große Liebe für Zionists. When will the world see that man's biggest problem is man, not Jews, not Muslims, nor Christians or athiests. Man's own brutal nature is what drives him into the open arms of satan. Screw them, screw them all, I wont join their society.
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Satan and God don't need guns,I repeat Satan and God don't need guns! Sometimes God uses a jaw bone of an ass,to whack 20,000 dudes,sometimes a plague! Sometimes Satan just uses our own vanity and wanabe god like powers to do us in! Sometimes if we do nothing it is doing something,so you fiqure it out! Now is the time to address the problem ,what about the problems that we can change now that will change what happens to us in the near future! Gun control is making sure your gun is aimed where it will kill or not kill at will! Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 11/8/2002 4:50:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2002 5:42:56 PM EDT by fixbayonets]
i live in a very oy vey liberal area, now some of my best friends are Jewish, infact i went to "Temple" for the mass of my friends fathers year of being dead,,i placed the Jewish skull cap on my head and whent in with all there,,thought i don't understand their laguage I followed closely with the english text Igave me upmost of respect to the dead relative(s) but while doing so i could hear and see smirks and sofrt harded jeers pointed to me then goyum I went to pay my respect to a friend's most loved one,,but yet all i recieved was joke laughter ```they did not have enough (class)to wecome and acknoledge my sense of being at the service,,,i was paying my respects to a old friend,,i felt as though I was a lower caste member "oh Yea the Goy is here,,,,the less than us...not one thank you for coming,,,while reading in the temple Ii waas continued to be amazed at the similarities betweent out 2 religions. damm shame the Jews won't wake upi and smell the roses and shit thhast they are in,,,hell if I were a Jew I'd have more firarms and I'd be spreading the world abbout the 2nd admend. righhts --------------
Link Posted: 11/8/2002 5:23:53 PM EDT
I'm Jewish, and I strongly support gun control. Perhaps some of you don't realize or appreciate the benefits of gun control. I for one practice gun control every weekend. Infact, I'm now controling my firearms so well that the vast majority of my shots find their way to the 10 ring.
Link Posted: 11/8/2002 6:49:38 PM EDT
Shabbot Shalom, SLt223, I agree with you, My wife and I both shoot and when Channaku comes, it is to celebrate the miracle of jews fighting oppression. It is sad to see our people afraid of their shadows, instead of walking tall.
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