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Posted: 10/30/2002 5:33:16 AM EDT
One of my best friends has a Viet Nam war buddy in Maryland. He’s the president of a gun club there and his wife is vice pres of another club in Maryland. This is an excerpt of an email my buddy got. Apparently…they WERE coercing gun owners to give up they’re AR’s. "Subject: Re: Shootings Hello Folks - Here's the latest. The closest shooting was about 25 miles from here (Bowie, MD). They seriously wounded a 13 yr. old boy. I had to go through this area 2-3 times per week while this was going on. EVERYONE is relieved they caught these guys .....(actually relieved they caught anybody) The biggest blunder in all of this was PROFILING the possible shooter as a WHITE, 20-40 year old male with a bad attitude. Even worse was the obsession to find a white box van .... and then to find a white Astro van. NUMEROUS folks called the police about the blue Caprice with two BLACK guys driving erratically immediately after the shootings. They even have THREE "Red Light" photos of them going through red lights!!! But that didn't fit the "PROFILE." To all of that, add the unannounced (secret) fact that the FBI/CIA/ATF/MSP etc. were going to private citizens homes were they had the "registered gun lists" (that are not supposed to exist) and demanding (coercing) WHITE MALES 20-40 to give up their AR-15s for "ballistics testing" (read ballistic fingerprinting) without having a warrant. Coercion tactic: "Are you John Doe? We KNOW you have an AR-15 and if you don't have anything to hide......give it to us. We'll test it and bring it back in 7-10 days." So far, there have been no returned AR-15s!!!I I had one friend that was visited 7 times!! by the alphabet soup agencies. I spoke with six other individuals with the same problem. They also wanted gun clubs to give up their club rosters! FFLs HAD TO give up their transfer forms."
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 5:41:19 AM EDT
Bullshit! If true, please supply me with contact info. GOA and SAF is interested in hearing from these folks... Any "lists" were furnished by the STATE of Maryland, or 4473's on file. Gun clubs and range's VOLUNTARILY gave up their sign in sheets.... I did hear of ONE MD state trooper coming on this way when he contacted a gun owner, when I did research on this.
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 5:46:57 AM EDT
I shot you an email liberty
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 6:00:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/30/2002 6:02:19 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
Originally Posted By liberty86: Bullshit! If true,
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I've received (and posted up) enough stories of this happening to believe it. I don't have any personal friends contacted, but the sources I've heard from were all reputable and trustworthy. I believe it did occur. I also heard from one guy that he got his gun shipped back to him in good condition in about a week. From an NRA source I'm talking with: [i]I have been working this issue since it broke. Although we (NRA) are not speaking publicly about the sniper I am working these police "visit" issues along with ballistic gun registration issues. I'm a bit pressed but can tell you the police have obtained information on .223s from dealers (in MD after 10/1/00 most ARs are registered in MD at the time of sale). The entire effort is poorly coordinated and individual outcomes depend on the person being questioned, the law enforcement division whose list they are on and the agents themselves. >From what I'm hearing if you get local BATF or FBI you are lucky, local county police are the worst followed by out of town BATF. To my knowledge no one who refused access to their gun has been served with a warrant, even if the officer threatened to obtain one. They are keeping records of guns - that is a whole other issue I don;t have time for now and the media is on an all out turn in your neighbor campaign with no apologies. As Ken Blanchard recently said to me, "now you know what it feels like to be a Black man with a gun". He is right.[/i]
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 6:04:47 AM EDT
Please keep us updated on the status of the "BORROWED" AR's. I'd be interested to know when they are returned to their proper owners.
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 6:20:16 AM EDT
well, I asked my buddy if I could post that part of the email and he said I could. I am in the process now of trying to get permission to give Liberty the contact info he needs, but its not up to me........we'll do the best we can here and hopefully, I can update you guys.
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 7:56:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Yojimbo: Please keep us updated on the status of the "BORROWED" AR's. I'd be interested to know when they are returned to their proper owners.
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A friend of mine had his 2 AR-15s taken away and "tested". He did get thejm back after 4 days. One was NIB, and they didn't bother to clean either of them. Friend lives 100 miles from the DC area. Check out this web site for more info: [url]www.direct-action.org[/url] GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 8:31:29 AM EDT
Hmm. It looks like they're building that national database already.. Have your friend buy some new barrels and sell those like-new barrels on EE. I'm sure he wouldn't lose more than a few bucks in taking this precaution.
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 9:10:48 AM EDT
IF a national database and compulsory registration comes about, I suggest we set up a barrel/bolt swap category, and everyone swap around. On the other hand, I also suggest we simply refuse to comply.
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 9:16:17 AM EDT
non-compliance works for me [:)]
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 9:41:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: Bullshit!
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I agree with the sentiment above. The NRA was touted as having an office in the white house as soon as the bush administration came into power and the attorney general said he believed in the 2nd Amendment. That said, they would NEVER allow any unconstitutional or illegal gun registration activities to occur. All you people are doing is trying to sabotage the chances of the republicans from obtaining majorities in the house and senate. This "gun turn-in" is just another tin foil hat fantasy.
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 9:50:07 AM EDT
hmmm those sort of coercive, invasive tactics tempt me to respond...oh, you would like a ballistic sample? Stay right there....
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 9:53:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/30/2002 9:54:56 AM EDT by Boomholzer]
I agree with the sentiment above. The NRA was touted as having an office in the white house as soon as the bush administration came into power and the attorney general said he believed in the 2nd Amendment. That said, they would NEVER allow any unconstitutional or illegal gun registration activities to occur. All you people are doing is trying to sabotage the chances of the republicans from obtaining majorities in the house and senate. This "gun turn-in" is just another tin foil hat fantasy.
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Imbrog|io has been "gotton to". Does not sound like typical Imbrog response. Listen to his words...........he has been compromised. [:D]
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 10:07:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Originally Posted By liberty86: Bullshit! If true,
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I've received (and posted up) enough stories of this happening to believe it.
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That's just what they are, Stories!
I don't have any personal friends contacted, but the sources I've heard from were all reputable and trustworthy.
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Provide them please. I had a thread tacked here for a while. Every instance of a gun being taken that I documented was the owner voluntarily surrendering his weapon.
I believe it did occur. I also heard from one guy that he got his gun shipped back to him in good condition in about a week. From an NRA source I'm talking with: [i]I have been working this issue since it broke. Although we (NRA) are not speaking publicly about the sniper I am working these police "visit" issues along with ballistic gun registration issues. I'm a bit pressed but can tell you the police have obtained information on .223s from dealers (in MD after 10/1/00 most ARs are registered in MD at the time of sale). The entire effort is poorly coordinated and individual outcomes depend on the person being questioned, the law enforcement division whose list they are on and the agents themselves. >From what I'm hearing if you get local BATF or FBI you are lucky, local county police are the worst followed by out of town BATF. To my knowledge no one who refused access to their gun has been served with a warrant, even if the officer threatened to obtain one. They are keeping records of guns - that is a whole other issue I don;t have time for now and the media is on an all out turn in your neighbor campaign with no apologies. As Ken Blanchard recently said to me, "now you know what it feels like to be a Black man with a gun". He is right.[/i]
View Quote
This is in keeping with what I found out. MD has registration,(state). ATF was hitting dealers up for info, (perfectly legal under current NRA supported law). Most of the owners I talked to were tripping all over themselves to surrender their rights. Blame them, not govt. Here's my tacked thread; [url]http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=149506&w=searchPop[/url]
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