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Posted: 7/28/2013 10:40:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm so fucking sick and tired of hearing how PS teachers do shit and get a kings salary for it I can't stand it anymore. My wife is a PS teacher here in AZ. 11 Years on the job, masters degree and pulls in a earth shattering 38K a year. As far as the 10-monthes a year arguement...more crap. Spends a week after school ends doing all the end of year crap, and a week prior to school starts doing the same. Spends a minimum of 3 weeks doing professional development/continuing education. So fuck you and all your crap about teachers have it made. Parents cry when their kids fail but do shit to help them, administration sides with parents always so school board can stay in power. Admin hamstrings any kind of "tough love" when it comes to unruely kids. Have to belong to the union for the safety net of lawyers if kids say they were touched or the teacher fails to notice a mark on a kids and doesn't call the cops. If its so much money, why isn't everyone joining the ranks?? |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 10:41:09 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm a school teacher.
Here is what I can dispel on the myths you guys got. First of all, I don't get paid for the summer unless I work. Second of all, I also work overtime after school and I don't get paid for that. Ergo I do 12 hrs work for 8 hrs pay. There are sucky teachers out there but that is not a majority. |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 10:50:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great. Two degrees and I can make 17% more than the average knucklehead in bumfuck County, NC. Sign me back up for that. I can't wait to grade papers at 11pm, because I'll be rolling in dough. You shouldn't have gotten the second degree. The idea people need a Masters to teach K-12 is absurd. |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 10:51:44 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In other words you are comparing the average salary of people in a county with lower education and income levels to someone who has a teaching degree. Average national teacher's salaries is something like $ 45-55k I think. How much do you think you can get away with paying a teacher in 2013? 25K? Minimum wage? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does the average person in that county have the equivalent of a bachelors, or whatever is required there to teach? That's a pretty low teacher's salary, generally speaking. According to the Census Bureau, 32.1% of residents of Buncombe County, NC have a bachelor's or higher degree. However, we are talking about a 10-month work year and an additional 5 weeks of paid absences minimum (6.5 weeks max), for a total of 8.75 working months. That's less than 3/4 of the time spent working for about 17% more pay (and again, the 17% figure is for a day-1, zero-experience, minimally-qualified noob teacher), plus the golden benefits package. It looks a whole lot sweeter when you figure all that in. Plus, there is no expectation of excellence with respect to performance. In answer to your question about what I think of their pay, I think they're doing just fine as is. In fact, if you figure in all the time off they get, their adjusted salary for an entry-level teacher is more like $46k, which isn't too bad, is it? It compares very favorably to the figures given in this article. Again, I'll point out the the OP was dedicated NOT to griping about how much the teacher actually makes, but outing the flagrant lies that the teacher told the reporter, and the completely distorted picture that the reporter, in turn, painted in the article. ETA: Also note that I'm comparing teacher's starting salary to the average salary for all workers, regardless of time on the job. Teachers are not stuck at $31,000/year. |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 10:54:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To answer your first question, I believe that the teacher is doing just fine and does not need more money. If you read the OP, you know that the linked article is full of outright lies designed to illicit the usual "Teachers don't get paid nearly enough!" emotional reaction that we're all used to seeing (witness the FU's I got earlier for calling this teacher on her BS--a knee-jerk, unreasoned and emotional response that had nothing to do with the documented facts that I posted). What really bugs me is the zero-tolerance for facts argument behind this demand for more money. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have no problem with what that teacher is making. However, you, given that you created this thread, either believe she is making too much, or such a perfect amount that asking for more would be ridiculous. I know my mother, with 20 years of exp, 2 bachelor's degrees, a masters, and national board certification, makes in the mid 40k range in NC. Do you think that is a ridiculous amount? She lives in a cheaper area than Asheville, and also teaches for a private college on theory of education. Even outside of those courses, long days at the school itself certainly weren't uncommon, and budget cuts ensure that even at the nicest elementary school in the county, she's teaching classes of thirty kids. Sorry, I'm not trying to be combative here, but I can't even come close to seeing what you're bitching about in this thread. The woman in your article might be a flaming libtard Obama voter and the third cousin of Nancy pelosi, but she's got 7 years exp in a field with low retention, specific degree and educational requirements, and which requires much more input than working g 9 to 5 alone. You couldn't pay me a teacher's salary to do what they do. I'm hardly giving the "poor teachers, woe is them" song and dance, but they provide a valuable service, and I really don't fault them in the slightest for wanting more. Also, of course the average salary in an area covers other degreed professionals. That has nothing to do with it. Do you think the majority of people are degreed professionals? I'd wager. most likely not, in NC at any rate. To answer your first question, I believe that the teacher is doing just fine and does not need more money. If you read the OP, you know that the linked article is full of outright lies designed to illicit the usual "Teachers don't get paid nearly enough!" emotional reaction that we're all used to seeing (witness the FU's I got earlier for calling this teacher on her BS--a knee-jerk, unreasoned and emotional response that had nothing to do with the documented facts that I posted). What really bugs me is the zero-tolerance for facts argument behind this demand for more money. I don't think you've made much of a case for the teacher's salary at all, to lessen, increase, or leave it the same, as all you've done in this thread is post numerous times the benefits packages and the fact that teachers get summers off. You weren't especially forthcoming with your intentions or angle behind the thread, so it looks like you're bashing someone making very much on the low end of the national teacher salary scale. I can't really get up in arms over a salaried public sector job making that, even if we pretend they work only 8 hour days for 3/4 of the year, as you've posted about ten times now ( they don't. really. And it looks silly that you can't consider the very large amount of planning before and after school that teachers do, not counting conferencing, grading, workshops, etc) I guess I really just don't understand the purpose of the thread. I can't get upset at the article like you can, but I do think the teacher sounds like a bit of a dolt. like I said earlier, I think that teacher is probably doing OK... but I'd ask for more money in her position, and I think she would be able to make a decently compelling case for it. |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 10:54:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm a school teacher. Here is what I can dispel on the myths you guys got. First of all, I don't get paid for the summer unless I work. Second of all, I also work overtime after school and I don't get paid for that. Ergo I do 12 hrs work for 8 hrs pay. There are sucky teachers out there but that is not a majority. You are adequately compensated; otherwise, you would quit. Doesn't it suck having to bend over for the union? I mean when my co-workers slack off or under-perform, even if they've worked 20 years, they are reprimanded or fired. I'm not sure I've ever seen a teacher fired for under-performing ... only for diddling the little girls/boys or theft/lying. Non-union teachers could get any type of personal insurance they need just like a person in any other industry. I just hear a lot of complaining from teachers ... like they are underpaid and doing a job no one else wants. When in actuality the market pays them properly, if not usually over-pays them because of corrupt laws favoring union employees vs. non-union employees in some states. Most teachers are statistics and can't fathom the state not controlling education. At the same time they'll say they have to babysit non-performing students. So you know what would happen to those students in a free-market education system? They would either be babysat or attend an "essentials" school (paid for by the community/township/churches) because believe it or not a community is capable of educating a child without the state. It's hard to get a public school teacher to admit that public schools aren't really needed because they are mostly statists. |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 10:56:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So why does your wife choose to work in a socialist system for which she's underpaid given the salary she earns vs. the monetary investment she's made in her own education? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm so fucking sick and tired of hearing how PS teachers do shit and get a kings salary for it I can't stand it anymore. My wife is a PS teacher here in AZ. 11 Years on the job, masters degree and pulls in a earth shattering 38K a year. As far as the 10-monthes a year arguement...more crap. Spends a week after school ends doing all the end of year crap, and a week prior to school starts doing the same. Spends a minimum of 3 weeks doing professional development/continuing education. So fuck you and all your crap about teachers have it made. Parents cry when their kids fail but do shit to help them, administration sides with parents always so school board can stay in power. Admin hamstrings any kind of "tough love" when it comes to unruely kids. Have to belong to the union for the safety net of lawyers if kids say they were touched or the teacher fails to notice a mark on a kids and doesn't call the cops. If its so much money, why isn't everyone joining the ranks?? 
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Posted: 7/28/2013 10:56:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm a school teacher. Here is what I can dispel on the myths you guys got. First of all, I don't get paid for the summer unless I work. I have no idea where you teach, but the NC salary schedule linked in the OP notes that the annual salary is for a 10-month work year, with payments in 12 monthly installments, so the figures are, in fact, for a 10-month year. Second of all, I also work overtime after school and I don't get paid for that. What salaried worker doesn't? Ergo I do 12 hrs work for 8 hrs pay. Why do you continue to do this? There are sucky teachers out there but that is not a majority. Responses in red, but I'll direct your attention back to the topic at hand. What do you think of the article linked in the OP, and what do you think of the "facts" that the teacher in that article cited versus the publicly-available information concerning her situation? |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 10:58:45 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm patiently waiting for OP to complain that the lib teacher makes more than they do.
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Posted: 7/28/2013 11:01:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think you've made much of a case for the teacher's salary at all, to lessen, increase, or leave it the same, as all you've done in this thread is post numerous times the benefits packages and the fact that teachers get summers off. You weren't especially forthcoming with your intentions or angle behind the thread, so it looks like you're bashing someone making very much on the low end of the national teacher salary scale. I can't really get up in arms over a salaried public sector job making that, even if we pretend they work only 8 hour days for 3/4 of the year, as you've posted about ten times now ( they don't. really. And it looks silly that you can't consider the very large amount of planning before and after school that teachers do, not counting conferencing, grading, workshops, etc) I guess I really just don't understand the purpose of the thread. I can't get upset at the article like you can, but I do think the teacher sounds like a bit of a dolt. like I said earlier, I think that teacher is probably doing OK... but I'd ask for more money in her position, and I think she would be able to make a decently compelling case for it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have no problem with what that teacher is making. However, you, given that you created this thread, either believe she is making too much, or such a perfect amount that asking for more would be ridiculous. I know my mother, with 20 years of exp, 2 bachelor's degrees, a masters, and national board certification, makes in the mid 40k range in NC. Do you think that is a ridiculous amount? She lives in a cheaper area than Asheville, and also teaches for a private college on theory of education. Even outside of those courses, long days at the school itself certainly weren't uncommon, and budget cuts ensure that even at the nicest elementary school in the county, she's teaching classes of thirty kids. Sorry, I'm not trying to be combative here, but I can't even come close to seeing what you're bitching about in this thread. The woman in your article might be a flaming libtard Obama voter and the third cousin of Nancy pelosi, but she's got 7 years exp in a field with low retention, specific degree and educational requirements, and which requires much more input than working g 9 to 5 alone. You couldn't pay me a teacher's salary to do what they do. I'm hardly giving the "poor teachers, woe is them" song and dance, but they provide a valuable service, and I really don't fault them in the slightest for wanting more. Also, of course the average salary in an area covers other degreed professionals. That has nothing to do with it. Do you think the majority of people are degreed professionals? I'd wager. most likely not, in NC at any rate. To answer your first question, I believe that the teacher is doing just fine and does not need more money. If you read the OP, you know that the linked article is full of outright lies designed to illicit the usual "Teachers don't get paid nearly enough!" emotional reaction that we're all used to seeing (witness the FU's I got earlier for calling this teacher on her BS--a knee-jerk, unreasoned and emotional response that had nothing to do with the documented facts that I posted). What really bugs me is the zero-tolerance for facts argument behind this demand for more money. I don't think you've made much of a case for the teacher's salary at all, to lessen, increase, or leave it the same, as all you've done in this thread is post numerous times the benefits packages and the fact that teachers get summers off. You weren't especially forthcoming with your intentions or angle behind the thread, so it looks like you're bashing someone making very much on the low end of the national teacher salary scale. I can't really get up in arms over a salaried public sector job making that, even if we pretend they work only 8 hour days for 3/4 of the year, as you've posted about ten times now ( they don't. really. And it looks silly that you can't consider the very large amount of planning before and after school that teachers do, not counting conferencing, grading, workshops, etc) I guess I really just don't understand the purpose of the thread. I can't get upset at the article like you can, but I do think the teacher sounds like a bit of a dolt. like I said earlier, I think that teacher is probably doing OK... but I'd ask for more money in her position, and I think she would be able to make a decently compelling case for it. I thought I stated the purpose of the thread very clearly: This is an interesting article and I love it when government teachers complain that they aren't earning enough money. Income and benefit data for public school teachers is public information as are the requirements for the various aid programs mentioned in the article. Let’s see how the article’s claims compare to the data… I've reiterated this several times in subsequent posts, and here it is again: A public school teacher complains that their pay is a travesty, claiming that her kids are eligible for Medicaid and that she is "swiping an EBT card". However, the eligibility requirements for these programs contradict her statements. Furthermore, she says that, after 7 years, her salary is $31,000, which does not agree with the NC salary schedule assuming she is a full-time teacher. |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 11:01:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh my god a profession requiring a degree makes slightly more than the average in an area, this is a travesty. You could have at least picked one of the new england teachers pushing 100k a year, because while I won't say that's shitty money... it's hardly a fortune, especially in Asheville. Also, in before private schools, govt indoctrination, teachers are all dumb, college is a waste (that will get here, somehow), I work 5736 hours a week and only make x why should they do differently, and so on. Also the repeated implication that teachers do no work, and instantly start and stop working with the school bell. There are some dumb things out there, and the NC teacher's union is a piece of shit, but I'm hardly going to begrudge someone with a fair bit of experience in their field for asking for more than 30k. |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 11:03:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm patiently waiting for OP to complain that the lib teacher makes more than they do. Hold your breath... |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 11:04:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought I stated the purpose of the thread very clearly: I've reiterated this several times in subsequent posts, and here it is again: A public school teacher complains that their pay is a travesty, claiming that her kids are eligible for Medicaid and that she is "swiping an EBT card". However, the eligibility requirements for these programs contradict her statements. Furthermore, she says that, after 7 years, her salary is $31,000, which does not agree with the NC salary schedule assuming she is a full-time teacher. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have no problem with what that teacher is making. However, you, given that you created this thread, either believe she is making too much, or such a perfect amount that asking for more would be ridiculous. I know my mother, with 20 years of exp, 2 bachelor's degrees, a masters, and national board certification, makes in the mid 40k range in NC. Do you think that is a ridiculous amount? She lives in a cheaper area than Asheville, and also teaches for a private college on theory of education. Even outside of those courses, long days at the school itself certainly weren't uncommon, and budget cuts ensure that even at the nicest elementary school in the county, she's teaching classes of thirty kids. Sorry, I'm not trying to be combative here, but I can't even come close to seeing what you're bitching about in this thread. The woman in your article might be a flaming libtard Obama voter and the third cousin of Nancy pelosi, but she's got 7 years exp in a field with low retention, specific degree and educational requirements, and which requires much more input than working g 9 to 5 alone. You couldn't pay me a teacher's salary to do what they do. I'm hardly giving the "poor teachers, woe is them" song and dance, but they provide a valuable service, and I really don't fault them in the slightest for wanting more. Also, of course the average salary in an area covers other degreed professionals. That has nothing to do with it. Do you think the majority of people are degreed professionals? I'd wager. most likely not, in NC at any rate. To answer your first question, I believe that the teacher is doing just fine and does not need more money. If you read the OP, you know that the linked article is full of outright lies designed to illicit the usual "Teachers don't get paid nearly enough!" emotional reaction that we're all used to seeing (witness the FU's I got earlier for calling this teacher on her BS--a knee-jerk, unreasoned and emotional response that had nothing to do with the documented facts that I posted). What really bugs me is the zero-tolerance for facts argument behind this demand for more money. I don't think you've made much of a case for the teacher's salary at all, to lessen, increase, or leave it the same, as all you've done in this thread is post numerous times the benefits packages and the fact that teachers get summers off. You weren't especially forthcoming with your intentions or angle behind the thread, so it looks like you're bashing someone making very much on the low end of the national teacher salary scale. I can't really get up in arms over a salaried public sector job making that, even if we pretend they work only 8 hour days for 3/4 of the year, as you've posted about ten times now ( they don't. really. And it looks silly that you can't consider the very large amount of planning before and after school that teachers do, not counting conferencing, grading, workshops, etc) I guess I really just don't understand the purpose of the thread. I can't get upset at the article like you can, but I do think the teacher sounds like a bit of a dolt. like I said earlier, I think that teacher is probably doing OK... but I'd ask for more money in her position, and I think she would be able to make a decently compelling case for it. I thought I stated the purpose of the thread very clearly: This is an interesting article and I love it when government teachers complain that they aren't earning enough money. Income and benefit data for public school teachers is public information as are the requirements for the various aid programs mentioned in the article. Let’s see how the article’s claims compare to the data… I've reiterated this several times in subsequent posts, and here it is again: A public school teacher complains that their pay is a travesty, claiming that her kids are eligible for Medicaid and that she is "swiping an EBT card". However, the eligibility requirements for these programs contradict her statements. Furthermore, she says that, after 7 years, her salary is $31,000, which does not agree with the NC salary schedule assuming she is a full-time teacher. So the point of this thread is that the teacher in the article is a liar? I think that point could have been made in the OP without it becoming an all out assault on public school teachers. |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 11:05:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hold your breath... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm patiently waiting for OP to complain that the lib teacher makes more than they do. Hold your breath... It comes across like that's your beef...I think with the one answer I quoted above it is now apparent that isn't the case. |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 11:06:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the point of this thread is that the teacher in the article is a liar? I think that point could have been made in the OP without it becoming an all out assault on public school teachers. Edit: Never mind--just read your last post. I have edited the TL;DR summary in the OP because it was, in fact, not an accurate summary of the OP. |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 11:07:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Edit: Never mind--just read your last post. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So the point of this thread is that the teacher in the article is a liar? I think that point could have been made in the OP without it becoming an all out assault on public school teachers. Edit: Never mind--just read your last post. I think the other point here is that the local Asheville rag isn't the beacon of journalism in this country. |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 11:10:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet you get insurance coverage and your other benefits in the summer. Your pay is probably also spread across 52 (or 26) paychecks and not 40 (or 20). You are adequately compensated; otherwise, you would quit. Doesn't it suck having to bend over for the union? I mean when my co-workers slack off or under-perform, even if they've worked 20 years, they are reprimanded or fired. I'm not sure I've ever seen a teacher fired for under-performing ... only for diddling the little girls/boys or theft/lying. Non-union teachers could get any type of personal insurance they need just like a person in any other industry. I just hear a lot of complaining from teachers ... like they are underpaid and doing a job no one else wants. When in actuality the market pays them properly, if not usually over-pays them because of corrupt laws favoring union employees vs. non-union employees in some states. Most teachers are statistics and can't fathom the state not controlling education. At the same time they'll say they have to babysit non-performing students. So you know what would happen to those students in a free-market education system? They would either be babysat or attend an "essentials" school (paid for by the community/township/churches) because believe it or not a community is capable of educating a child without the state. It's hard to get a public school teacher to admit that public schools aren't really needed because they are mostly statists. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm a school teacher. Here is what I can dispel on the myths you guys got. First of all, I don't get paid for the summer unless I work. Second of all, I also work overtime after school and I don't get paid for that. Ergo I do 12 hrs work for 8 hrs pay. There are sucky teachers out there but that is not a majority. You are adequately compensated; otherwise, you would quit. Doesn't it suck having to bend over for the union? I mean when my co-workers slack off or under-perform, even if they've worked 20 years, they are reprimanded or fired. I'm not sure I've ever seen a teacher fired for under-performing ... only for diddling the little girls/boys or theft/lying. Non-union teachers could get any type of personal insurance they need just like a person in any other industry. I just hear a lot of complaining from teachers ... like they are underpaid and doing a job no one else wants. When in actuality the market pays them properly, if not usually over-pays them because of corrupt laws favoring union employees vs. non-union employees in some states. Most teachers are statistics and can't fathom the state not controlling education. At the same time they'll say they have to babysit non-performing students. So you know what would happen to those students in a free-market education system? They would either be babysat or attend an "essentials" school (paid for by the community/township/churches) because believe it or not a community is capable of educating a child without the state. It's hard to get a public school teacher to admit that public schools aren't really needed because they are mostly statists. Teachers definitely aren't overpaid. Think 8 hours of work and then like 3-5 hours of "home work" grading papers. Let's go with 4 since that's in the middle. Knock off about 8 weeks of the year due to breaks, and you get 44 weeks of work. Let's say they get paid $35,000.00 per annum. A BLS work year is 2080 hours of work. Based off of the stuff prior, a teacher year is 2640 hours. If they were working a normal work year, they'd be making like $16.83 an hour, but since they're working a teacher year, they're getting paid like $13.26 an hour. Some area retail supervisors pull more than that down. I know people say "market value" of teachers and what not, but most of them are in public schools, which isn't exactly a market. They're getting paid what the state pays out, which is often less than what speed-trap cops make. Are the rolling in the dough? Are they overpaid? |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 11:13:02 PM EDT
[#18]
I think $33,030 for 7 years experience is shit wages. Not every teacher is underpaid - but paying our teachers will should be a goal. You want to attract good talent to take up this profession. .
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Posted: 7/28/2013 11:14:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So why does your wife choose to work in a socialist system for which she's underpaid given the salary she earns vs. the monetary investment she's made in her own education? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm so fucking sick and tired of hearing how PS teachers do shit and get a kings salary for it I can't stand it anymore. My wife is a PS teacher here in AZ. 11 Years on the job, masters degree and pulls in a earth shattering 38K a year. As far as the 10-monthes a year arguement...more crap. Spends a week after school ends doing all the end of year crap, and a week prior to school starts doing the same. Spends a minimum of 3 weeks doing professional development/continuing education. So fuck you and all your crap about teachers have it made. Parents cry when their kids fail but do shit to help them, administration sides with parents always so school board can stay in power. Admin hamstrings any kind of "tough love" when it comes to unruely kids. Have to belong to the union for the safety net of lawyers if kids say they were touched or the teacher fails to notice a mark on a kids and doesn't call the cops. If its so much money, why isn't everyone joining the ranks?? Probably because she has a calling to be a teacher. She is willing to put up with a lot of shit to do this so important job. |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 11:26:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Teachers definitely aren't overpaid. Think 8 hours of work and then like 3-5 hours of "home work" grading papers. Let's go with 4 since that's in the middle. Knock off about 8 weeks of the year due to breaks, and you get 44 weeks of work. Let's say they get paid $35,000.00 per annum. A BLS work year is 2080 hours of work. Based off of the stuff prior, a teacher year is 2640 hours. If they were working a normal work year, they'd be making like $16.83 an hour, but since they're working a teacher year, they're getting paid like $13.26 an hour. Some area retail supervisors pull more than that down. I know people say "market value" of teachers and what not, but most of them are in public schools, which isn't exactly a market. They're getting paid what the state pays out, which is often less than what speed-trap cops make. Are the rolling in the dough? Are they overpaid? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm a school teacher. Here is what I can dispel on the myths you guys got. First of all, I don't get paid for the summer unless I work. Second of all, I also work overtime after school and I don't get paid for that. Ergo I do 12 hrs work for 8 hrs pay. There are sucky teachers out there but that is not a majority. You are adequately compensated; otherwise, you would quit. Doesn't it suck having to bend over for the union? I mean when my co-workers slack off or under-perform, even if they've worked 20 years, they are reprimanded or fired. I'm not sure I've ever seen a teacher fired for under-performing ... only for diddling the little girls/boys or theft/lying. Non-union teachers could get any type of personal insurance they need just like a person in any other industry. I just hear a lot of complaining from teachers ... like they are underpaid and doing a job no one else wants. When in actuality the market pays them properly, if not usually over-pays them because of corrupt laws favoring union employees vs. non-union employees in some states. Most teachers are statistics and can't fathom the state not controlling education. At the same time they'll say they have to babysit non-performing students. So you know what would happen to those students in a free-market education system? They would either be babysat or attend an "essentials" school (paid for by the community/township/churches) because believe it or not a community is capable of educating a child without the state. It's hard to get a public school teacher to admit that public schools aren't really needed because they are mostly statists. Teachers definitely aren't overpaid. Think 8 hours of work and then like 3-5 hours of "home work" grading papers. Let's go with 4 since that's in the middle. Knock off about 8 weeks of the year due to breaks, and you get 44 weeks of work. Let's say they get paid $35,000.00 per annum. A BLS work year is 2080 hours of work. Based off of the stuff prior, a teacher year is 2640 hours. If they were working a normal work year, they'd be making like $16.83 an hour, but since they're working a teacher year, they're getting paid like $13.26 an hour. Some area retail supervisors pull more than that down. I know people say "market value" of teachers and what not, but most of them are in public schools, which isn't exactly a market. They're getting paid what the state pays out, which is often less than what speed-trap cops make. Are the rolling in the dough? Are they overpaid? Typically, a public-school teacher will have better pay and benefits than their P/P teacher in the same geographic area. Sure there are some top-end P/P teachers at Prep schools, but public-school teachers are able to compete for those jobs all the same. So by and large, I think teachers benefit greatly from sucking the socialist tit of the statist-run education system. |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 11:26:24 PM EDT
[#21]
If you guys really want to get mad about something, get mad about how much administrators make. They make a ton of money, there are lots and lots of them at the average High School, they never get let go when it comes time to cut people and best of all they DON'T TEACH!
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Posted: 7/28/2013 11:30:27 PM EDT
[#22]
The modern teacher does not just take your kids for a few hours and teach them.
The modern teacher has to write strict progress reports due to fed and state law, and most of the reports are done after hours meaning the teacher is not just working from 7am to 3pm. Then this paperwork has to be sent up the chain and approved. To me, having a wife that is a teacher, this takes up a lot of time she could be helping with me or just helping raise our children. Instead, she has to write why little billy can't learn, and bc his parent cannot tutor him on their spare time. Wanna point the finger, point it at yourselves, help out or pay the price. So it's all do to the stupid reports. No child left behind yada yada. It's funny reading some of the anti teacher comments. It's great to see those types input their subject matter expertise. |
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Posted: 7/28/2013 11:56:59 PM EDT
[#23]
If you want to make a lot of money you probably shouldn't be a school teacher just the same as you probably shouldn't join the military. There are a lot of other salaried jobs in the private sector where people have to put in over 40 hours a week and end up doing work at home . These jobs don't pay much more than a school teacher either. If you are an NCO in the military you generally work 12 hour days while in garrison for pretty much the same salary as a school teacher only you have tons more shit to put up with. Sorry, but you chose to go to school and get two degrees knowing full well the job doesn't pay a lot.
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Posted: 7/29/2013 12:15:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you want to make a lot of money you probably shouldn't be a school teacher just the same as you probably shouldn't join the military. There are a lot of other salaried jobs in the private sector where people have to put in over 40 hours a week and end up doing work at home . These jobs don't pay much more than a school teacher either. If you are an NCO in the military you generally work 12 hour days while in garrison for pretty much the same salary as a school teacher only you have tons more shit to put up with. Sorry, but you chose to go to school and get two degrees knowing full well the job doesn't pay a lot. You join the mil knowing nothing is expected in return including you getting out alive. Most people going into teaching thought it would be a 7-3 job with summers no work. Next thing you know laws pop up saying you need to work 5 more hours with no pay Increase... Hmmmm Dif situ stations. You can't compare mil to comfy civs! |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 12:38:25 AM EDT
[#25]
It's almost as funny as when cops complain of not making enough money.
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Posted: 7/29/2013 12:53:26 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does the average person in that county have the equivalent of a bachelors, or whatever is required there to teach? That's a pretty low teacher's salary, generally speaking. Ding. |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 1:03:40 AM EDT
[#27]
What a bunch of bullshit. Go attempt a circle jerk somewhere els op. I know two people, one with masters in mathematics and one in science, the lowest education that this city will allow to become teachers, and they still make the same as felons that throw trash into the back of a truck.
how about you bitch about the toll both workers who make more than min wage. Oh wait, you probably are one |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 1:28:35 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's funny reading some of the anti teacher comments. It's great to see those types input their subject matter expertise. +1 It's amusing. These threads always boil down primarily to the following two groups: - Teachers, or spouses of teachers, posting reasonable input based on real-world experience - Less-than-knowledgeable folks who can barely conceal how terrified and intimidated they are by education, educators, educated people, and the education system in general. |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 1:39:00 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Want better pay? Don't teach at a public school. Choices and all that... This. Also, how many children you decide to have shouldn't determine your salary. |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 1:42:14 AM EDT
[#30]
14 days of annual leave, plus 8 sick days? Holy shit. Our county only gives 3 annual leave and 10 sick days. If you try to take all three annual leave days together, they want several months advance notice and you'd better have a good reason. (BIL's OCONUS wedding on a Friday afternoon, and you want to fly down Wednesday? Not a good enough reason)
Our county is in the middle of whining from the union because the county's finances are in the shitter, they've skipped four of the last five annual step increases due to extremely low property tax income. My favorite are the "Well, if you pay me $3/hr per kid for babysitting service" type write-ups. It doesn't help their cause that the original, reasonable union president resigned last year, and the shop stewards elected the VP to the head slot. The new president? He's a card-carrying, self-avowed Marxist who rants on local gossip news websites and sends open letters to everyone, making a huge ass of himself. He's pissed off everyone in leadership positions in the county for the last 10 years, and now he's expecting them to give him everything he wants, and its not even a negotiation year. 
Kharn |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 2:25:37 AM EDT
[#31]
Many teachers (especially the young, motivated and politically right leaning ones) do just that and leave, so you have a few dedicated teachers (which often burn out and leave anyway - just takes longer) and a bunch of leftest quasi-FSA loosers teaching Americas youth.
Having the leftovers as teach at public schools is not the answer. You think schools are bad now, that sure as hell will NOT increase the quality of education. And forget actually using any kind of performance or standards based pay or advancement when you are picking from the bottom of the barrel! And you CANNOT compare the "average salary" in an area with a career that requires a degree. Only 27% of the US population has a bachelors degree, 8% has a masters - when you use those numbers the pay is a fucking travesty. Getting rid of the PC BS of passing kids that should have failed, rules that prevent teachers from enforcing order in their classrooms, offices packed with admin types and bloated school district offices and boards would be a good start to fixing public education. There are MANY things wrong with the public education system but in MOST areas of the country saying teachers are overpaid is
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Want better pay? Don't teach at a public school. Choices and all that... |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 2:25:43 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Want better pay? Don't teach at a public school. Choices and all that... This. |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 2:39:13 AM EDT
[#33]
[quote tree]
Private schools don't have to show progress at all. If kids aren't performing well in private school the parents usually put them back in public schools. This is from a parent of a private school kid. |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 2:44:27 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many teachers (especially the young, motivated and politically right leaning ones) do just that and leave, so you have a few dedicated teachers (which often burn out and leave anyway - just takes longer) and a bunch of leftest quasi-FSA loosers teaching Americas youth, YEAH! Having the leftovers as teach at public schools is not the answer. You think schools are bad now, that sure as hell will NOT increase the quality of education. And forget actually using any kind of performance or standards based pay or advancement when you are picking from the bottom of the barrel! And you CANNOT compare the "average salary" in an area with a career that requires a degree. Only 27% of the US population has a bachelors degree, 8% has a masters - when you use those numbers the pay is a fucking travesty. Getting rid of the PC BS of passing kids that should have failed, rules that prevent teachers from enforcing order in their classrooms, offices packed with admin types and bloated school district offices and boards would be a good start to fixing public education. There are MANY things wrong with the public education system but in MOST areas of the country saying teachers are overpaid is
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many teachers (especially the young, motivated and politically right leaning ones) do just that and leave, so you have a few dedicated teachers (which often burn out and leave anyway - just takes longer) and a bunch of leftest quasi-FSA loosers teaching Americas youth, YEAH! Having the leftovers as teach at public schools is not the answer. You think schools are bad now, that sure as hell will NOT increase the quality of education. And forget actually using any kind of performance or standards based pay or advancement when you are picking from the bottom of the barrel! And you CANNOT compare the "average salary" in an area with a career that requires a degree. Only 27% of the US population has a bachelors degree, 8% has a masters - when you use those numbers the pay is a fucking travesty. Getting rid of the PC BS of passing kids that should have failed, rules that prevent teachers from enforcing order in their classrooms, offices packed with admin types and bloated school district offices and boards would be a good start to fixing public education. There are MANY things wrong with the public education system but in MOST areas of the country saying teachers are overpaid is
Quoted:
Want better pay? Don't teach at a public school. Choices and all that... Yep. There's a lot wrong with public education, but the teachers aren't the ones you need to be hating. Hate the administrators, the superintendents, and the fuckhead that signed NCLB into law. "In particular, NCLB does not require any programs for gifted, talented, and other high-performing students.[42] Federal funding of gifted education decreased by a third over the law's first five years.[42] While NCLB is silent on the education of academically gifted students, some states (such as Arizona, California, Virginia, and Pennsylvania) require schools to identify gifted students and provide them with an appropriate education, including grade advancement. In other states, such as Michigan, state funding for gifted and talented programs was cut by up to 90% in the year after the act became law.[42]" |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 2:48:25 AM EDT
[#35]
Meh shitty situations in all lines of work...
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Posted: 7/29/2013 2:58:45 AM EDT
[#36]
Since 2008, the best place to see new cars in the parking lot has been the local schools.
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Posted: 7/29/2013 3:06:45 AM EDT
[#37]
Instead of interjecting my perspective into this cluster fuck willy nilly, I'll say this.....
I've been a teacher for 13 years (department head of a NATEF accredited automotive Technology program). If anyone wants honest answers about how things really are, ask away and I'll answer to the best of my ability. At least you'll get the unvarnished answer from someone who's been there, as opposed to bullshit from "news" sources, and opinion. |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 3:08:54 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Instead of interjecting my perspective into this cluster fuck willy nilly, I'll say this..... I've been a teacher for 13 years (department head of a NATEF accredited automotive Technology program). If anyone wants honest answers about how things really are, ask away and I'll answer to the best of my ability. At least you'll get the unvarnished answer from someone who's been there, as opposed to bullshit from "news" sources, and opinion. What did you spend your annual million-dollar bonus check from Obama on this year? |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 3:09:42 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since 2008, the best place to see new cars in the parking lot has been the local schools. That alone doesn't really say anything about teaching as a profession; all it says is that you live in Georgia. |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 3:13:10 AM EDT
[#40]
Or maybe the shit-boxes they had been driving the last 15 years finally died and they needed a dependable car to get to a from work and they didnt want to deal with mechanics and repairs so they bought new.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since 2008, the best place to see new cars in the parking lot has been the local schools. |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 3:13:43 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What did you spend your annual million-dollar bonus check from Obama on this year? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Instead of interjecting my perspective into this cluster fuck willy nilly, I'll say this..... I've been a teacher for 13 years (department head of a NATEF accredited automotive Technology program). If anyone wants honest answers about how things really are, ask away and I'll answer to the best of my ability. At least you'll get the unvarnished answer from someone who's been there, as opposed to bullshit from "news" sources, and opinion. What did you spend your annual million-dollar bonus check from Obama on this year? I bought my four year old daughter a Barbie doll. She was excited. LOL |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 3:16:36 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought my four year old daughter a Barbie doll. She was excited. LOL Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Instead of interjecting my perspective into this cluster fuck willy nilly, I'll say this..... I've been a teacher for 13 years (department head of a NATEF accredited automotive Technology program). If anyone wants honest answers about how things really are, ask away and I'll answer to the best of my ability. At least you'll get the unvarnished answer from someone who's been there, as opposed to bullshit from "news" sources, and opinion. What did you spend your annual million-dollar bonus check from Obama on this year? I bought my four year old daughter a Barbie doll. She was excited. LOL Excellent. 
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Posted: 7/29/2013 3:18:01 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Want better pay? Don't teach at a public school. Choices and all that... private school teachers make significantly less than public school teachers. funny how that works. |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 3:18:44 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. And I don't understand why so many are ok with it. Just like police or any other public paying job, you get what you pay for. I doubt everyone here has money to send their kids to private school. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Great. Two degrees and I can make 17% more than the average knucklehead in bumfuck County, NC. Sign me back up for that. I can't wait to grade papers at 11pm, because I'll be rolling in dough. So take those two degrees and get a job in the private sector. I'm sure an English major could pull in some serious cash there if they didn't report their tips to the IRS. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I did, and now I pull in over three times what that NC teacher takes. I have dozens of guns, and an art collection centered on 16th-19th century Asian and European items. While teachers can barely hold down a mortgage... and continually get shit on. Yep. And I don't understand why so many are ok with it. Just like police or any other public paying job, you get what you pay for. I doubt everyone here has money to send their kids to private school. Washington DC has the highest paid public school teachers in the nation. money doesn't buy quality. |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 3:22:24 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought my four year old daughter a Barbie doll. She was excited. LOL Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Instead of interjecting my perspective into this cluster fuck willy nilly, I'll say this..... I've been a teacher for 13 years (department head of a NATEF accredited automotive Technology program). If anyone wants honest answers about how things really are, ask away and I'll answer to the best of my ability. At least you'll get the unvarnished answer from someone who's been there, as opposed to bullshit from "news" sources, and opinion. What did you spend your annual million-dollar bonus check from Obama on this year? I bought my four year old daughter a Barbie doll. She was excited. LOL Is your teaching position at a public school or a post HS vocational type facility? |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 3:26:54 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is your teaching position at a public school or a post HS vocational type facility? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Instead of interjecting my perspective into this cluster fuck willy nilly, I'll say this..... I've been a teacher for 13 years (department head of a NATEF accredited automotive Technology program). If anyone wants honest answers about how things really are, ask away and I'll answer to the best of my ability. At least you'll get the unvarnished answer from someone who's been there, as opposed to bullshit from "news" sources, and opinion. What did you spend your annual million-dollar bonus check from Obama on this year? I bought my four year old daughter a Barbie doll. She was excited. LOL Is your teaching position at a public school or a post HS vocational type facility? Public high school. I work at a Board of Cooperative Educational Services. We run programs the individual school districts wouldn't be able to afford on their own. Schools buy slots for students based on need, and classes are run based on the needs of the community (local business), schools, and students. For all intents and purposes though, it works like a regular high school. |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 3:28:19 AM EDT
[#47]
[quote tree]
5 points to slytherin. |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 3:32:21 AM EDT
[#48]
Also that is only for 9 months of work.
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Posted: 7/29/2013 3:33:28 AM EDT
[#49]
OP, the only large hole in your analysis is the assumption of 8-hour work days. My wife's experience has been 10 hours/day, 42 weeks/year. That makes 2100 hours per year. A "normal" job is 8 hours/day for 52 weeks, totaling 2080 hours per year.
A minor hole is your assumption that all of those paid days off actually are usable and get used. In Texas, various rules make it nearly impossible to actually use them and for the most part they don't accrue year-to-year. Each year you lose a lot of unused days off. |
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Posted: 7/29/2013 3:34:14 AM EDT
[#50]
Cry me a fucking river.
My wife is a SC public school teacher and her parents are retired NC school teachers. Her parents retired beofre they were 59 with full retirement from the state. Pension and medical that people in the private sector only dream of now days. That right there is the reason you don't make the big bucks. The NC salary schedule is not the end of the money, each county adds a certain percantage to that as well. I think the county I live in is 5% more than the NC base salary. Also, if a teacher is national baord certified, they can get another $5,000 a year. That woman in the article is full of shit, it's just a way to drum up more support for the "Moral Monday" movement. |
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