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Posted: 10/24/2002 1:03:33 PM EDT
except when they are shooting head shop clerks and cops while stealing a new bong and scales. "Man dies in shootout Shoppers duck for cover as police and robbery suspect exchange fire. An officer and a sales clerk are wounded. By ZAHEERA WAHID, ERIKA RITCHIE and CATRINE JOHANSSON The Orange County Register AN EYEWITNESS to the robbery and shootout in Laguna Beach, center, talks with a police officer, right. Shoppers and merchants sought cover as the suspect and officers fired 20 to 30 shots. Eugene Garcia / The Register -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LAGUNA BEACH – An armed suspect was killed and a police officer and sales clerk were shot during a bungled robbery at a small business in Laguna Beach on Wednesday, police said. The officer, Larry Bammer, was grazed in the abdomen by a slug that lodged in his bulletproof vest. He was in good condition late Wednesday at Mission Hospital. The employee of the Herb Import Co., Jacques Negian, 28, was shot in the back and was in critical condition. Witnesses said the streets turned chaotic about 2 p.m. as 20 to 30 shots were exchanged between officers and the suspect on Coast Highway near Anita Street, in front of restaurants, a surf shop and other businesses. "People were running, grabbing their kids, throwing their bodies over their kids and diving behind cars," said Christian Leigh Grill, who was cutting hair at a salon down the street when the shooting broke out. Others ducked into shops or behind bushes during the minute-long shootout, witnesses reported. After the shots stopped, the ground was covered in shell casings and blood seeped from under a parked recreational vehicle, which the suspect had used as a cover, witnesses said. Police dragged the suspect out and began CPR, said Greg Hansen, who hid under a bed during the pandemonium and later watched from his upstairs apartment. "He was lifeless," Hansen said. "He wasn't moving." The suspect, whose name was not released, was taken to South Coast Medical Center, where doctors revived him, Lt. Mike Hall said. He was flown to Mission Hospital, where he underwent surgery and died shortly after 7 p.m., police said. The drama started when the suspect walked into the herb shop, 1025 S. Coast Highway, and demanded money from the female cashier, Hall said. The man took the male employee aside, put one handcuff on him and shot him, Hall said. "(Negian) exited the shop and went to the realty shop (next door) and said, 'I've been shot,'" Hall said. The suspect then walked out of the herb shop carrying a large black duffel bag in his left hand and gripping a stainless-steel gun in his right hand, witnesses said. He ran into Laguna Seaside Realty next door but left seconds later, witnesses said. He was then surrounded by officers responding to the robbery call, said John Leon of Garden Grove, who watched from a Mexican restaurant across the street. "The officers kept yelling 'Drop the gun!' but the guy just stood there pointing the gun at them," said Mark Kellick, who was working across the street at Video Works. "I heard a gunshot, so I ducked down." The wounded officer was "lifted up and thrown backward into the doorway of the realty store," Leon said. "When (the suspect) fired that thing, it made the windows rattle. We thought it was a movie. And we thought, 'Oh, my God, what is this guy doing?'" The suspect, who was wearing a gray shirt, black pants and a black beanie, ran to his left and ducked under the recreational vehicle, which was parked next to the herb shop, witnesses said. He dropped his duffel bag on the sidewalk but still carried a backpack. That's when officers crept up on all sides and fired at the suspect, witnesses said. Police have not ruled out the possibility of a second suspect who might have escaped in a getaway car, Hall said. [b]The duffel bag contained water pipes and scales stolen from the herb shop[/b], which also sells candles and herbal products. The backpack contained "personal effects," Hall said. Witnesses said they saw police remove two guns and several boxes of ammunition from the backpack. More than a dozen kids from Young Life, a Christian youth group, gathered at Mission Hospital on Wednesday evening to show support for Bammer, the first Laguna Beach officer in nearly half a century to be shot in the line of duty. The Laguna Beach High School students said Bammer, in his early 20s, graduated from the school and socialized on campus daily. "Other officers had to be there, but Larry does it because he wants to," said Joe LeBon, 16, a junior. Bammer helped organize Bible studies and dinner and movie outings for the Young Life group, said D-Anne LeBon, 47, a Laguna Beach resident involved with the group. Bammer always wanted to be in law enforcement, having served as an Explorer as a teenager. He was a police officer in Orange before returning to the Laguna Beach Police Department as a patrol officer, D-Anne LeBon said. "He used to talk about how dangerous it was to be a cop in Orange," she said. "But not in Laguna. He didn't worry about it in Laguna. It's such a calm neighborhood." The last Laguna Beach officer to be shot was Gordon French, who died from his injuries in the 1950s, Hall said. Stacey Santiago, a friend of Negian's, said the store clerk was popular with customers. "It was a really cool store," she said. "They sell a lot of vitamins, herbal stuff, and oils. (Negian) is a very nice guy. He's very cool. He didn't deserve this."
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 1:09:33 PM EDT
The actions are more a reflection of the man then the drug itself. Remember, alcohol is legal and I know you see more crimes as a result of drinking then you ever do from smoking pot!! Then again, you probably have a biased opinion and a personal stake in this to clearly see the whole picture. Just MHO. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 1:20:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2002 1:21:42 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
The suspect, who was wearing a gray shirt, black pants and a [red]black beanie[/red], ran to his left and ducked under the recreational vehicle, which was parked next to the herb shop, witnesses said. He dropped his duffel bag on the sidewalk but still carried a backpack
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Gee could it be...another peaceful Muslim?
Remember, alcohol is legal and I know you see more crimes as a result of drinking then you ever do from smoking pot!!
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Hell yeah. Alcohol is behind THOUSANDS of traffic deaths THOUSANDS of assaults and hundreds of murders a year. Which is why I find it mind boggling that people want even more varieties of mind numbing intoxicants made available to the public. Unless they are addicts in denial.
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 1:24:36 PM EDT
alcohol isn't behind anything. It's the addiction to alcohol by a PERSON who is a MORAL AGENT that is to blame. I'm amazed I even have to point this out to someone here.
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 1:29:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2002 1:31:22 PM EDT by Hellraiser]
Pot is as much to blame on this situation as much as Bushmaster is to blame on the beltway sniper shootings. Why do you have this hard-on for pot smokers? They must have kicked your ass in high school while you were getting ready for your jackboots being a hall monitor.
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 1:33:03 PM EDT
Pot heads are cool unless you try to take their hemp away! course I don't know this first hand as I allways puff up and look much bigger than I really am! Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 1:34:22 PM EDT
thats a damn lie and you know it! all reports of pot smokers being filled with anything but love are reported by the man! [whacko] Thanks for the report AR15fan although I am sure most of the "pro-pot" people will just brush it off. Funny I never have heard of a drunk getting into a shootout for brandy snifters or beer bongs. I am just ignorant I guess [:D]
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 1:34:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
The suspect, who was wearing a gray shirt, black pants and a [red]black beanie[/red], ran to his left and ducked under the recreational vehicle, which was parked next to the herb shop, witnesses said. He dropped his duffel bag on the sidewalk but still carried a backpack
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Gee could it be...another peaceful Muslim?
Remember, alcohol is legal and I know you see more crimes as a result of drinking then you ever do from smoking pot!!
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Hell yeah. Alcohol is behind THOUSANDS of traffic deaths THOUSANDS of assaults and hundreds of murders a year. Which is why I find it mind boggling that people want even more varieties of mind numbing intoxicants made available to the public. Unless they are addicts in denial.
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Noted. ArmdLbrl votes in favor of reviving the 18th Amendment.
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 1:37:06 PM EDT
George Carlin made a good point. Alcohol vrs Pot. A guy gets drunk and beats the tar out of his wife. A guy gets stoned and forgets to beat the tar out of his wife.
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 1:43:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan: Police dragged the suspect out and began CPR, said Greg Hansen, who hid under a bed during the pandemonium and later watched from his upstairs apartment.
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With courage such as this, how can any in the world oppose the mighty spirit and will of the American people. This guy actually admitted to the news he hid under his bed. Wow.
That's when officers crept up on all sides and fired at the suspect, witnesses said.
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I seem to have forgotten the proper set up for a Polish ambush since my military and police train periods. Anybody care to refresh my poor tactical memory?
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 1:46:13 PM EDT
I have seen some filthy hippie draft dodger types attacking a pepperoni pizza ...
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 2:04:57 PM EDT
I've seen it a million times: A perfectly normal and peaceful person takes a couple of drags on a joint and suddenly becomes hyper-violent and evil.[rolleyes] Yup. Happens all the time.[rolleyes] Please quit confusing someone's personal habits with their inherent personal character. This guy was a rotten piece of shit long before he did his first bong hit.
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 2:19:39 PM EDT
The guy came to steal waterpipes, but where does the article say he was high on weed at that time?
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 3:24:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bobbyjack: Pot heads are cool unless you try to take their hemp away!
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You can have my bong when you pry it from my cold, dead, ....what was I talking about again?[:D]
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 3:49:43 PM EDT
The wounded officer was "lifted up and thrown backward into the doorway of the realty store," Leon said.
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There you go people, bullets really do lift people up and toss them backwards when they get shot! [rolleyes]
"When (the suspect) fired that thing, it made the windows rattle. We thought it was a movie. And we thought, 'Oh, my God, what is this guy doing?'"
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HE'S SHOOTING AT THE POLICE YOU IDIOT!!!! "Thought it was a movie"? How dumb are people!
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 3:53:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Remember, alcohol is legal and I know you see more crimes as a result of drinking then you ever do from smoking pot!!
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Hell yeah. Alcohol is behind THOUSANDS of traffic deaths THOUSANDS of assaults and hundreds of murders a year. Which is why I find it mind boggling that people want even more varieties of mind numbing intoxicants made available to the public. Unless they are addicts in denial.
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Anyone who wants pot can get it within an hour. Its being illegal doesn't make it any less available. Convicts in prison can get marijuana if they want it. Anti-drug people are so alarmed that high school students use dope more widely than alcohol, but that's just a function of access. Beer is relatively difficult to score compared to a bag of dope. All this being true, why even bother enforcing, making laws against dope? Why make the punishment for possessing or selling the drugs more harmful than actually using it?
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 5:10:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raven:All this being true, why even bother enforcing, making laws against dope? Why make the punishment for possessing or selling the drugs more harmful than actually using it?
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Around here you have to have something like 48 grams on you to get a felony rap, that's alot if you didn't know. There's a bill proposed this year to make "chronic" the lowest priority for LEO's around here too, I guess they collected enough signatures to get it passed they just didn't turn em' in on time, so they gotta wait till next year. The "Greeners" (Evergreen college) have this thing every year called "Super Saturday", where every one gets together on the campus and has a big "session" on a hill. It's legal cuz it's on private property or something. I went to it when I was younger, it was alright, they have a kind of carnival at the same time, too many damn stinky hippies though.
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 5:12:25 PM EDT
If drugs were legal,this kinda thing wouldn't happen.
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 5:20:06 PM EDT
ar15fan, would please give this subject a rest. You are beating this dead horse long after it has evaporated into nothing. Besides, as usual, you are wrong.
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 5:21:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sesat_ram: The guy came to steal waterpipes, [red]but where does the article say he was high on weed at that time?[/red]
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You are correct sir, It says nada, zero, zip about the suspect being under the influence of ANY drugs. AR15FAN is just doing his part for sensationalism, mis-directing people's attention to suit his own agenda. Must be a part time reporter [:D]
Link Posted: 10/24/2002 5:23:39 PM EDT
i bet he wasn't high at the time of the the crime. if he was he wouldn't have made it to the shop before closing cause of all the stops at 7-11, mcdonalds, pizza hut, pastry express, etc... pot doesn't make people violent. Lack of Pot makes people violent.
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 2:00:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/25/2002 2:01:57 AM EDT by AR15fan]
Originally Posted By grizzlyarms: pot doesn't make people violent.
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I agree. A violent man who uses pot remains violent. A peaceful man who uses pot remains peaceful. Anyone with any common sense knows this. Yet most marijuana users will claim that "pot heads are non-violent". He the reference to george carlin jokes about forgetting to beat your wife. Or smoking a half a bag and taking a nap. My point, as this actual example clearly shows, is that a marijuana user can be every bit as violent as the meanest drunk or junkie you ever met.
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 2:22:58 AM EDT
Talk about beating a dead horse. Where does it say the thief was stoned?
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 2:50:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 3:24:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan: My point,...............
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Your point, as uaual, is to beat a dead horse and show you know nothing about the subject.
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 3:32:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: alcohol isn't behind anything. It's the addiction to alcohol by a PERSON who is a MORAL AGENT that is to blame. I'm amazed I even have to point this out to someone here.
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Point taken. The Bushmaster did not kill either. I'm still amazed Trickster, Have you turned over a leaf.
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 3:39:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/25/2002 3:41:27 AM EDT by Pat-Riot]
Hmmmmmm. Obviously the perp knows more about potheads than AR-15Ffan. He was robbing a head-shop!! He was robbing pot heads!! Why? Cuz they are more docile than regular folks. A recent study proved that THC helps to inhibit the fear reaction. Meaning the user will feel less threatened in any given situation. Less threat = less stress = more relaxed. On the other hand "Love Boat" is very popular on the left coast among the criminal types. "Love Boat" is what it was called in DC back in the '80's. It pretty much made the DC murder rate sky rocket. It is Pot laced with PCP. Whole nuther animal, and I do mean animal. People who are hyper-vigilant can use pot to relax to a normal level of threat perception. Also THC has been found to reduce the occurrence of seizures in epileptics. Babylonians, Egyptians, Hindus, Vikings all used MJ. As did the Hashashins where our word Assassin comes from. Also were Hashish comes from. DuPont and the American Cotton Growers Association are why pot is illegal, not because it gets you high. Why do I know all this? My conservative Republican great uncle grew it for the military during WWII. Many of the uniforms in the Pacific theater were made from hemp. They held up better than cotton in the jungles. At the time there wasn't a distinction between Pot and hemp. Now they have discovered that hemp won't get you high, it will give you a headache. I actually listened to some idiot from the NC HWY Patrol talk about how if they legalized industrial hemp, just hemp mind you not pot, people would be able to grow pot right under the noses of authorities. NC State tested that theory. The hemp pollinated the pot and tuned it into hemp, reducing it's THC content to almost nil, and made it "Unsmokable" If hemp were legal it would devastate the pot crops just through accidental pollination. But the products that can be made from hemp fibers, and the plastics that can be made from the resins are too much of a threat to DuPont and Cotton production. With tobacco on the way out, we need to find an alternative crop for Southern farmers. If ignorant asses would just wake up and legalize both types then tax the snot outta pot, we would be in a much better place economically and environmentally. Cotton destroys a field for a year. 10 hemp plants can grow where 1 cotton plant will. Hemp is infinitely easier to process than cotton. It doesn't drain the nutrients from the soil like cotton. Wouldn't have to leave a field fallow for a year before it could support another crop. AR15fan, why don't you do some actual research rather than spout the party line. Think for yourself. Get the facts, then tell us about the "Demon Weed".
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 4:28:37 AM EDT
im thinking AR15FAN must be a writer or producer for ZDF TV in Germany. He takes a situation, and makes it look like a whole different situation to fit his agenda. Jesus how long did you have to search to find a violent crime even vaguely connected to marijuana?
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 4:39:17 AM EDT
WTF? Its not bad enough? Trust me this isnt the time to make it look like we're a bunch of stoners . Keep the dope shit on www.idiotsondrugs.com and dont associate that crap with me or my rifle.
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 4:45:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hellraiser: Pot is as much to blame on this situation as much as Bushmaster is to blame on the beltway sniper shootings.
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Agreed.
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 5:26:26 AM EDT
C'mon you guys, this story is pure fiction. California banned guns that could fire "20 to 30 shots" several years ago! Everyone knows that!
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 5:29:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Manic: WTF? Its not bad enough? Trust me this isnt the time to make it look like we're a bunch of stoners . Keep the dope shit on www.idiotsondrugs.com and dont associate that crap with me or my rifle.
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I think the only way it could have been associated to you and your "rifle"(wtf) would be to post on this thread, good job ! 82nd Airborne: Why even read the thread ?....much less post
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 5:56:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 6:06:42 AM EDT
Oh...wasn't trying to flame, I'm just curious by nature. 007 ________________________________________________ I don't have a liscense to kill, but I got a learners permit.
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 6:54:10 AM EDT
Call me paranoid.....Do you think its a good idea, with the media whores taking things out of context ,as they do, to associate ARs with drugs? It should occur to all of us to appear as "sane and squeaky clean " as possible with the increased media exposure ARs are and will be getting. As far as the semantics, I would have said " us and our" but it would have been pretentious to speak for anyone but myself.
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 7:11:22 AM EDT
Pot smoker, while not too violent, still suck. Why? Because they vote for the worst political candidates.
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 9:35:57 AM EDT
Thanks for the post,but I think a better title would have been "Robber shot committing crime" The guy that robbed the store is a dumbass. ar15fan, I see you don't like pot and can not make a decent post on this subject. I hope you get over your combativeness with this subject. Maybe try to dig up some medical research that links it to cancer or something. Nobody likes to see someone beat a dead horse.
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 11:09:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By u-baddog: ar15fan, I see you don't like pot
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I neither like nor dislike marijuana, as I have never used it. I do dislike 99% of the pot heads I've met though. I didnt have to "search" for this article as one poster asked. Since it happened where I live and I know several of the involved parties.
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 11:18:07 AM EDT
Why do you all keep attacking AR15fan? He is one of the most sincere and nicest people you could meet. Most of all he is one of my bestest friends.
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 11:26:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DevilsAdvocate: Pot smoker, while not too violent, still suck. Why? Because they vote for the worst political candidates.
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Because the people most likely to legalize marijuana are Democrats. When's the last time a Republican politician made any sort of effort to try to legalize or even decriminalize weed? In fact, most of the opposition for this has been Republican(See the government's response to Canada's proposed legalization). Because of things like this, most pot smokers have come to equate Republicans with tyrants, eager to trample individual liberties and selective in the application of laws. However, I will continue to vote republican and try to change things from the inside, if for no other reason than illegal weed is easier to obtain, store and use covertly than illegal firearms.
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 1:28:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 1:56:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/25/2002 2:00:21 PM EDT by u-baddog]
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By u-baddog: ar15fan, I see you don't like pot
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[red]I neither like nor dislike[/red] marijuana, as I have never used it. [red]I do dislike 99% of the pot heads I've met though.[/red] I didnt have to "search" for this article as one poster asked. Since it happened where I live and I know several of the involved parties.
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You seem to contradict yourself. Mind you I am just looking at what your wrote. OH there a dead horse. I guess I will go beat it [;D]
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