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Posted: 7/2/2013 6:58:05 PM EDT
[#1]
It's the law.
Pick up that can... Freedom? Not around here dammit!  |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 7:00:25 PM EDT
[#2]
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If you're talking a seatbelt or a little bit of weed, sure I agree. DUI? You can just GTFO with your "victimless crime" bullshit. Society becomes the victim when you wind up in a car crash, and because you were not wearing a seatbelt you are injured enough that EMS has to respond, or killed and the coroner has to go to work; it has to do with the tax payer being the victim. Now if EMS were not required to respond where a seatbelt was not used by an injured motorist, nor the coroner (your body just stays there until next-of-kin takes care of it), then you might have an argument here. I agree. |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 7:00:56 PM EDT
[#3]
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If you're talking a seatbelt or a little bit of weed, sure I agree. DUI? You can just GTFO with your "victimless crime" bullshit. Why because you knew someone killed by a DUI... Well two things I have had family member killed by a firearm And in a big city on a Friday or Saturday night after 11pm or so 7 out of 10 drivers have consumed alcohol And I believe DUI should be against the law but not based on a number that is based on money not safety |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 7:24:46 PM EDT
[#4]
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If you're talking a seatbelt or a little bit of weed, sure I agree. DUI? You can just GTFO with your "victimless crime" bullshit. Society becomes the victim when you wind up in a car crash, and because you were not wearing a seatbelt you are injured enough that EMS has to respond, or killed and the coroner has to go to work; it has to do with the tax payer being the victim. Now if EMS were not required to respond where a seatbelt was not used by an injured motorist, nor the coroner (your body just stays there until next-of-kin takes care of it), then you might have an argument here. I agree. So is society still the victim when you do the same thing stone cold sober? |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 7:32:33 PM EDT
[#5]
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Should poaching be illegal? Hunting is a right. We have to ensure that future generations are able to exercise their right to hunt. We don't have the right to hunt game to a point that none exists for the future. This is pretty simple really. So who owns the deer on my property, and why? Why doesn't that entity compensate me for their depredations? |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 7:34:51 PM EDT
[#6]
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Should poaching be illegal? Hunting is a right. We have to ensure that future generations are able to exercise their right to hunt. We don't have the right to hunt game to a point that none exists for the future. This is pretty simple really. So who owns the deer on my property, and why? Why doesn't that entity compensate me for their depredations? The State "owns" the deer, yet seems unwilling to pay motorists who have their cars damaged by said deer. Rather strange logic they like to use. |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 7:35:43 PM EDT
[#7]
isnt there a Thomas Jefferson quote saying something similar?
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Posted: 7/2/2013 7:40:47 PM EDT
[#8]
OP needs to live alone on his own personal island. That way, his rant would possibly have some meaning.
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Posted: 7/2/2013 8:31:04 PM EDT
[#9]
By using the term "victim" the OP mis-states the issue.
Better is "If there is no harm to another, there is no crime". Prove the positive, actual harm to a real, individual person, or let it go. |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 8:38:43 PM EDT
[#10]
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It's none of your god damn business what someone else does, if it harms nothing and no one. If you don't "like" something or "approve" of something, well tough fucking shit. Discuss Why were you taken into custody OP? I think I found it. 
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Posted: 7/2/2013 8:49:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Fapping is okay if youre alone, OP. Try it in public and see what it gets you, even if, technically, there is no crime other than what people consider okay by their standards.
BTW, where did all the DUI stuff come from in this thread? |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 8:53:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
BTW, where did all the DUI stuff come from in this thread? People who don't have an argument, seeking to impugn the OP without cause. Sadly, even people I respect. |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 8:56:39 PM EDT
[#13]
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There is ALWAYS a victim. And it depends on who's law we're talking about. May not be a crime against the state, but there are eternal laws that always have consequences whether in this life or the next. What about if I were to cut down my pump shotgun barrel to 14 inches? Is the State a victim? ( hypothetically speaking of course ) |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 9:02:07 PM EDT
[#14]
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There is ALWAYS a victim. And it depends on who's law we're talking about. May not be a crime against the state, but there are eternal laws that always have consequences whether in this life or the next. What about if I were to cut down my pump shotgun barrel to 14 inches? Is the State a victim? ( hypothetically speaking of course ) The only victim in the scenario will be your butt when the send you to "Federal Pound You In The Ass Prison" for not paying the kings tax. |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 9:17:06 PM EDT
[#15]
hilarity is ensuing
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Posted: 7/2/2013 9:18:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Lets say no one is hurt, what about robbing a bank for cash?
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Posted: 7/2/2013 9:20:32 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
If you're talking a seatbelt or a little bit of weed, sure I agree. DUI? You can just GTFO with your "victimless crime" bullshit. qft |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 9:21:39 PM EDT
[#18]
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Jesus Christ on the cross, enough Libertarian bullshit already around here. You're like fucking Moonies without the robes. I worked with one for an entire day last month-he was so far out there that I asked him if he ever visited ARFCOM. I mean this guy used all the talking points we read here. He paused when I said "AR15.com" and denied being here at any time, but I suspect he was full of shit. Yeah, fucking libertarians... minding their own goddamn business and shit? How are we ever going to have the perfect society with them spouting off about how the whole world should be like Somalia? Why can't they just like the parts of the constitution that we like? Then we could rally together in accusing the libtards of destroying the constitution! Shitting in the business of others using the force of law - FUCK YEAH! Dude, I've been to Somalia.... We dont want that here. Seriously. |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 9:25:18 PM EDT
[#19]
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So who is victimized when someone cuts the barrel on their rifle shorter than 16" and threads a homemade suppressor on to it? No one. The ATF is. You are stealing money from them by not paying the tax to register your NFA items. (sarcasm) |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 9:28:20 PM EDT
[#20]
How about if you paint a shotgun with black in the with turkey sights in the wrong state. Not good turkey camo, but would be victimless.
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Posted: 7/2/2013 9:31:36 PM EDT
[#21]
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How about if you paint a shotgun with black in the with turkey sights in the wrong state. Not good turkey camo, but would be victimless. Huh, use small words and explain it to a non hunter, slowly. |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 9:31:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
How about if you paint a shotgun with black in the with turkey sights in the wrong state. Not good turkey camo, but would be victimless. I think you accidentally the whole thing. |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 10:20:23 PM EDT
[#23]
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Lets say no one is hurt, what about robbing a bank for cash? Taking what is not yours deprives others of what is theirs. So, terrible example. |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 10:45:19 PM EDT
[#24]
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Sometimes the State becomes the victim (ie domestic violence) even when the real victim doesn't want to press charges. A victim unwilling to press charges is still a victim. right up till the state says that no matter what, someone goes to jail  A few years back when I lived in Tulsa my neighbors were in the back yard screaming at each other. I was watching in case it got physical, it never did, just a loud argument. Well, the cops show up because as it turns out, another neighbor call in a domestic. As he was getting arrested I got the attention of a cop standing off to the side and told him I saw the whole fight and neither one even touched the other. He stated that was what they both said and that neither had any marks, and as unfair as it is, when they show they HAVE to arrest someone. usually the male.
So yeah, sometimes there is no crime when there is no victim, even if the state has its panties in a twist to generate revenue. A fair number of cops believe this. It is not true. A law that required an arrest without probable cause would be flatly unconstitutional. What laws of the type the cop had in mind actually say is that they must arrest the primary or major aggressor if there is PC, even if the victim doesn't wish to press charges. |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 10:49:03 PM EDT
[#25]
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If you're talking a seatbelt or a little bit of weed, sure I agree. DUI? You can just GTFO with your "victimless crime" bullshit. Society becomes the victim when you wind up in a car crash, and because you were not wearing a seatbelt you are injured enough that EMS has to respond, or killed and the coroner has to go to work; it has to do with the tax payer being the victim. Now if EMS were not required to respond where a seatbelt was not used by an injured motorist, nor the coroner (your body just stays there until next-of-kin takes care of it), then you might have an argument here. And this is why it will be just and right when they make it illegal for people over 70 to shower. You might think there's no victim, but when your mom breaks her hip in the shower and EMS has to respond because she just wasn't happy with a sponge bath, it's everybody's business. That's pretty much what should happen to swimming pools and trampolines and tree-climbing. Everybody's business and your logic will do away with them all. |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 10:54:40 PM EDT
[#26]
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It's none of your god damn business what someone else does, if it harms nothing and no one. If you don't "like" something or "approve" of something, well tough fucking shit. Discuss I was once chased down Washington avenue by a 6'-2" black guy with a knife in Pre-ccw days and I ran my ass off in the ice & snow in flat soled dress shoes! I called 911 after it happened, gave a description, and over an hour later they said they couldn't find anybody fitting that description. They said since they couldn't find him there was no crime committed, and therefore no need to take any report (which would look bad in their crime rate statistics)! Just because their 21 minute average response time to life threatening calls means the guy had plenty of time to hop on metro transit busses& escape must mean there was no crime. If what someone else does involves use of taxpayer funds in any way, either in treating direct or indirect results of those actions, then it IS my business as a taxpayer! You want to do drugs, smoke pot, whatever. Don't demand I pay your welfare when you get laid off from your job if you fail to show up on time or get fired for being under the influence on the job. You're OK with paying my welfare if I get canned for showing up late because I'm just a sad sack of shit? |
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Posted: 7/2/2013 11:11:55 PM EDT
[#27]
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I actually believe the NFA of 1934 had some merit, in that over the years very few legally owned NFA weapons were used in crimes ...So the NFA has merit because people that obey stupid laws like the NFA also obey other laws? 
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Posted: 7/2/2013 11:12:24 PM EDT
[#28]
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It's none of your god damn business what someone else does, if it harms nothing and no one. If you don't "like" something or "approve" of something, well tough fucking shit. Discuss 
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Posted: 7/3/2013 9:18:25 AM EDT
[#29]
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There is ALWAYS a victim. And it depends on who's law we're talking about. May not be a crime against the state, but there are eternal laws that always have consequences whether in this life or the next. Wow! Scary shit right there. It isn't illegal, but if you do it, a mythical being will shove it up your ass. Let me know how it works out for you. Better lube up! |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 9:24:17 AM EDT
[#30]
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There is ALWAYS a victim. And it depends on who's law we're talking about. May not be a crime against the state, but there are eternal laws that always have consequences whether in this life or the next. What about if I were to cut down my pump shotgun barrel to 14 inches? Is the State a victim? ( hypothetically speaking of course ) The only victim in this case would be the beautiful shotgun you'd destroy by cutting the barrel off. |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 10:21:02 AM EDT
[#31]
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So who is victimized when someone cuts the barrel on their rifle shorter than 16" and threads a homemade suppressor on to it? No one. The state, actually. It is not getting its $400 in taxes. |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 10:25:23 AM EDT
[#32]
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Lets say no one is hurt, what about robbing a bank for cash? Taking what is not yours deprives others of what is theirs. So, terrible example. A bank basically prints cash. Well they take a "loan" from the Federal Reserve (which prints it out of nothing) at a very low interest rate so they can lend it at a higher interest rate. |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 10:52:15 AM EDT
[#33]
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If you're talking a seatbelt or a little bit of weed, sure I agree. DUI? You can just GTFO with your "victimless crime" bullshit. Society becomes the victim when you wind up in a car crash, and because you were not wearing a seatbelt you are injured enough that EMS has to respond, or killed and the coroner has to go to work; it has to do with the tax payer being the victim. Now if EMS were not required to respond where a seatbelt was not used by an injured motorist, nor the coroner (your body just stays there until next-of-kin takes care of it), then you might have an argument here. I don't like that argument. Yes its possible the hospital or tax payers will lose money if someone has no insurance and fails to wear their seatbelt but how is that any different than a lot of other things. Should we ban sky diving ? Motorcycling ? Diving into pools ? Climbing trees ? I'm sure the liberals would like to ban hunting and shooting under the guise of dangerous activities cause society to be a victim. Why are seat belts different ? |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 11:09:11 AM EDT
[#34]
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If you're talking a seatbelt or a little bit of weed, sure I agree. DUI? You can just GTFO with your "victimless crime" bullshit. Society becomes the victim when you wind up in a car crash, and because you were not wearing a seatbelt you are injured enough that EMS has to respond, or killed and the coroner has to go to work; it has to do with the tax payer being the victim. Now if EMS were not required to respond where a seatbelt was not used by an injured motorist, nor the coroner (your body just stays there until next-of-kin takes care of it), then you might have an argument here. Except for insurance... |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 11:23:59 AM EDT
[#35]
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If you're talking a seatbelt or a little bit of weed, sure I agree. DUI? You can just GTFO with your "victimless crime" bullshit. Society becomes the victim when you wind up in a car crash, and because you were not wearing a seatbelt you are injured enough that EMS has to respond, or killed and the coroner has to go to work; it has to do with the tax payer being the victim. Now if EMS were not required to respond where a seatbelt was not used by an injured motorist, nor the coroner (your body just stays there until next-of-kin takes care of it), then you might have an argument here. I don't like that argument. Yes its possible the hospital or tax payers will lose money if someone has no insurance and fails to wear their seatbelt but how is that any different than a lot of other things. Should we ban sky diving ? Motorcycling ? Diving into pools ? Climbing trees ? I'm sure the liberals would like to ban hunting and shooting under the guise of dangerous activities cause society to be a victim. Why are seat belts different ? Driving — ban it! |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 11:35:02 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: If it was DUI then yeah, "victimless" is just a matter of time. Like Russian Roulette - eventually someone's gonna get fucked up. Or like risky sex, or like shooting a gun, etc... You can make that case for pretty much anything, you know. |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 8:35:04 PM EDT
[#37]
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I actually believe the NFA of 1934 had some merit, in that over the years very few legally owned NFA weapons were used in crimes ...So the NFA has merit because people that obey stupid laws like the NFA also obey other laws?
Yea, lets go back to selling them in hardware stores without scrutinizing buyers
I can deal with the NFA of '34. Approval should be streamlined so it's expedited, and the tax reduced or eliminated, but there's a reason they're known as "the best behaved firearms in America". |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 8:38:25 PM EDT
[#38]
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I actually believe the NFA of 1934 had some merit, in that over the years very few legally owned NFA weapons were used in crimes ...So the NFA has merit because people that obey stupid laws like the NFA also obey other laws?
Yea, lets go back to selling them in hardware stores without scrutinizing buyers
I can deal with the NFA of '34. Approval should be streamlined so it's expedited, and the tax reduced or eliminated, but there's a reason they're known as "the best behaved firearms in America". We currently don't scrutinize people who buy hammers and other blunt objects from hardware stores and sporting goods stores and people armed with those kill more people than those armed with rifles who do have to go through a background check at the dealer. The NFA does jack shit at crime prevention and should be eliminated. 
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Posted: 7/3/2013 8:42:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sometimes the State becomes the victim (ie domestic violence) even when the real victim doesn't want to press charges. A victim unwilling to press charges is still a victim. right up till the state says that no matter what, someone goes to jail A few years back when I lived in Tulsa my neighbors were in the back yard screaming at each other. I was watching in case it got physical, it never did, just a loud argument. Well, the cops show up because as it turns out, another neighbor call in a domestic. As he was getting arrested I got the attention of a cop standing off to the side and told him I saw the whole fight and neither one even touched the other. He stated that was what they both said and that neither had any marks, and as unfair as it is, when they show they HAVE to arrest someone. usually the male.So yeah, sometimes there is no crime when there is no victim, even if the state has its panties in a twist to generate revenue. Same thing in Florida . . . and I believe in Maine too .....it's fucking horseshit . |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 8:43:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: He's probably mad that everyone is not on board in the pro-incest thread... wat |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 8:46:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Quoted: It's none of your god damn business what someone else does, if it harms nothing and no one. If you don't "like" something or "approve" of something, well tough fucking shit. Discuss I was once chased down Washington avenue by a 6'-2" black guy with a knife in Pre-ccw days and I ran my ass off in the ice & snow in flat soled dress shoes! I called 911 after it happened, gave a description, and over an hour later they said they couldn't find anybody fitting that description. They said since they couldn't find him there was no crime committed, and therefore no need to take any report (which would look bad in their crime rate statistics)! Just because their 21 minute average response time to life threatening calls means the guy had plenty of time to hop on metro transit busses& escape must mean there was no crime. If what someone else does involves use of taxpayer funds in any way, either in treating direct or indirect results of those actions, then it IS my business as a taxpayer! You want to do drugs, smoke pot, whatever. Don't demand I pay your welfare when you get laid off from your job if you fail to show up on time or get fired for being under the influence on the job. No one on arfcom who wants to get rid of drug laws has ever argued that you should be paying for their welfare. Aged conservatives that are pro-every law ever, though... Don't you think about touching their social security and medicare. |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 8:49:19 PM EDT
[#42]
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It's none of your god damn business what someone else does, if it harms nothing and no one. If you don't "like" something or "approve" of something, well tough fucking shit. Discuss I also really dislike laws that protect us from ourselves. Those are just ridiculous. If people feel like hurting themselves so be it. No helmet laws, seat belt laws, portion controls, illegal drugs, etc. etc. |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 8:50:10 PM EDT
[#43]
A lot of people, maybe most people hate freedom.
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Posted: 7/3/2013 8:51:55 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
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I actually believe the NFA of 1934 had some merit, in that over the years very few legally owned NFA weapons were used in crimes ...So the NFA has merit because people that obey stupid laws like the NFA also obey other laws?
Yea, lets go back to selling them in hardware stores without scrutinizing buyers
I can deal with the NFA of '34. Approval should be streamlined so it's expedited, and the tax reduced or eliminated, but there's a reason they're known as "the best behaved firearms in America". You honestly don't even pretend to be somebody who supports limited government. If I may, where do you think the Federal government is given the authority to enact a law such as the NFA? (Other thn the rubber stamp from a progressive SCOTUS) |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 8:53:34 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Yea, lets go back to selling them in hardware stores without scrutinizing buyers I can deal with the NFA of '34. Approval should be streamlined so it's expedited, and the tax reduced or eliminated, but there's a reason they're known as "the best behaved firearms in America". These are the posts I love to see on arfcom. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS MOLON LABE SUPPORT THE NFA |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 8:54:13 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
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I actually believe the NFA of 1934 had some merit, in that over the years very few legally owned NFA weapons were used in crimes ...So the NFA has merit because people that obey stupid laws like the NFA also obey other laws?
Yea, lets go back to selling them in hardware stores without scrutinizing buyers
I can deal with the NFA of '34. Approval should be streamlined so it's expedited, and the tax reduced or eliminated, but there's a reason they're known as "the best behaved firearms in America". We currently don't scrutinize people who buy hammers and other blunt objects from hardware stores and sporting goods stores and people armed with those kill more people than those armed with rifles who do have to go through a background check at the dealer. The NFA does jack shit at crime prevention and should be eliminated. If you say so. It should be modified, but complete elimination is asking for trouble. |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 8:54:46 PM EDT
[#47]
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Yea, lets go back to selling them in hardware stores without scrutinizing buyers
I can deal with the NFA of '34. Approval should be streamlined so it's expedited, and the tax reduced or eliminated, but there's a reason they're known as "the best behaved firearms in America". These are the posts I love to see on arfcom. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS MOLON LABE SUPPORT THE NFA Like anyone gives too fucks what you think |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 8:55:19 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
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I actually believe the NFA of 1934 had some merit, in that over the years very few legally owned NFA weapons were used in crimes ...So the NFA has merit because people that obey stupid laws like the NFA also obey other laws?
Yea, lets go back to selling them in hardware stores without scrutinizing buyers
I can deal with the NFA of '34. Approval should be streamlined so it's expedited, and the tax reduced or eliminated, but there's a reason they're known as "the best behaved firearms in America". You honestly don't even pretend to be somebody who supports limited government. If I may, where do you think the Federal government is given the authority to enact a law such as the NFA? (Other thn the rubber stamp from a progressive SCOTUS) So we should sell NFA weapons in hardware stores? ETA: I have to ask again since you never answered my question earlier...How old are you? |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 8:57:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Quoted: If it was DUI then yeah, "victimless" is just a matter of time. Like Russian Roulette - eventually someone's gonna get fucked up. Or like risky sex, or like shooting a gun, etc... You can make that case for pretty much anything, you know. I want to agree, but how about shooting a gun into a crowded schoolyard ("the children", you know), but not actually managing to hit anyone? I'm not sure a guy who does that needs to be sent on his merry way. But defining as a crime something like "putting others at risk of harm" could go full retard, and be applied to things like driving a car without ABS. I'm not sure where to draw the line. I would lean towards requiring an actual victim to define a crime, just because any other option could be abused by the state. |
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Posted: 7/3/2013 8:58:37 PM EDT
[#50]
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You honestly don't even pretend to be somebody who supports limited government. If I may, where do you think the Federal government is given the authority to enact a law such as the NFA? (Other thn the rubber stamp from a progressive SCOTUS) So we should sell NFA weapons in hardware stores? Lets not use Red Herrings please. Just answer the question. Where, in the Constitution that you swore to uphold, is the Federal Government given the authority to prohibit hardware stores from selling MGs? Try not to appeal to your emotions. Answer the question in a straightforward fashion, please. |
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