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Posted: 10/19/2002 11:38:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2002 12:09:06 AM EDT by Sewer_Urchin]
Is it legal to sell an AR from California to another state? After having a daughter, I need to think of the legal consequences. The rifle has got to go. Also, having a child doesn't allow for much shooting because of time and money. Anyway, I need to know how I can get rid of it legally. Do I have to go to an out of state gun show or can I do it through a local FFL, online? What are my options? By the way, this post is not here to stir up debate over holding on to our 2nd ammendment rights and what not. I still have my M1A. In case anyone is wondering, this is what I have: -Post ban Bushmaster Shorty A2 -11 USGI 30 mags -2 Thermolds 30 -1 USGI 20 -Harris Bipod -Weaver rail I would prefer to keep the package complete and get rid of it all in one fell swoop.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 11:40:50 PM EDT
Drive to Colorado and give it to me. [:D]
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 11:45:42 PM EDT
Actually you are in kind of a f-ed position for doing anything legally with it. Do you have family or friends out of state? Your best bet would be to drive very carefully out of the state and leave it with them. From there you can sell it if you wish, though I am not sure of the legality of that. Front Sight was providing free storage as well, not sure if that still applies though. If you have an option of storing it out of state, I would hold on to it for the future. You never know.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 11:46:53 PM EDT
If it's registered you could take it to a Assault Weapons dealer. That's a dealer that has a license to sell AW's. You probably won't get much for it. If you have to go out of state, I understand that it's a buyers market in Nevada.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 11:48:54 PM EDT
Oh yeah, my post was under the assumption that it was not registered. If it is, find the nearest approved "assault weapon dealer" and you can ship it out of state to a buyer through them.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 12:00:27 AM EDT
What about places like gunbroker.com or auctionarms.com? Will that work? It is registered, but just sh!ts and giggles, lets say it isn't. Can I go to Las Vegas or Reno and sell it legally there?
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 12:01:54 AM EDT
IMO- Once you get it out of Kommiefornia, those Kommie pukes from Kommiefornia have no say over what you can do with it.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 12:03:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sewer_Urchin: What about places like gunbroker.com or auctionarms.com? Will that work? It is registered, but just sh!ts and giggles, lets say it isn't. Can I go to Las Vegas or Reno and sell it legally there?
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I see absolutely no reason why you can't. Kommie has no hold over your rifle/property after it's outta there. Who's to say it didn't leave the state before the deadline anyways????
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 12:04:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2002 12:07:11 AM EDT by Sewer_Urchin]
All the info is appreciated. Again, I'm not trying to stir up debate or bash California. I am unhappy with the laws here and within the next couple years I will move back to Washington State, but until then, I have to look out for the best interests of my child. When I do sell it in Reno or Vegas do I need an FFL?
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 12:05:14 AM EDT
I'd be interested in the bipod and the thermolds.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 12:07:27 AM EDT
I am pretty sure that a non FFL can NOT legally transfer a firearm to a resident of another state. In other words you are f--ked as far as being 100% legal goes. Which would be hard at this point anyway seeing as how you have a "registered" evil weapon in kali[:)]
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 12:14:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sewer_Urchin: All the info is appreciated. Again, I'm not trying to stir up debate or bash California. I am unhappy with the laws here and within the next couple years I will move back to Washington State, but until then, I have to look out for the best interests of my child. When I do sell it in Reno or Vegas do I need an FFL?
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IMO- It's best that you do because you registered it in Kommiefornia. Kommiefornia has no say over your shit if it's out of the state. Can anyone point to something that disproves this?
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 12:20:20 AM EDT
It's not illegal to carry the firearm across state lines and personally transfer it somewhere else is it? If it were, alot of gun show purchases would be illegal.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 12:26:42 AM EDT
sociopath, check your email.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 12:45:20 AM EDT
i'll give ya $200, I'll even pick it up from you.:)
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 12:47:07 AM EDT
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her state, if the buyer is not prohibited by law from receiving or possessing a firearm, or to a licensee in any state. A firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]
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Link Posted: 10/20/2002 12:54:33 AM EDT
I take it you don't have relatives back in Washington that could hold on to it?
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 12:54:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rickyj:
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her state, if the buyer is not prohibited by law from receiving or possessing a firearm, or to a licensee in any state. A firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]
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Prohibited by California law to transfer to another Californian without FFL. Other than that the law only applies to people in your own state. I think it says he can sell it to an FFL in another state though. I still think you should hold on to it, especially if you are leaving in a couple years anyhow. Just put it at the back of the safe and don't take it out and you will be fine. Just make sure the kid doesn't learn the combination. [;)]
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 12:56:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rickyj: A firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
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What does that part mean? Anybody know?
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 1:03:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sociopath:
Originally Posted By Rickyj: A firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
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What does that part mean? Anybody know?
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You can get a C&R license that allows you to receive Curios and Relics without an FFL.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 5:40:29 AM EDT
It's not illegal to carry the firearm across state lines and personally transfer it somewhere else is it? If it were, a lot of gun show purchases would be illegal.
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It is illegal to carry a firearm across a state line and personally transfer it to an individual in another state. You can only transfer to a licensee. I don't think I'll comment on your second sentence.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 5:43:35 AM EDT
You can get a C&R license that allows you to receive Curios and Relics without an FFL
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A C&R License is an FFL, a Type 03 to be precise. The distinction is important because the regulations refer to transactions between licensees, which includes Type 03 FFL's.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 10:02:12 PM EDT
How is it then that you can do a personal transfer? Is it the state lines thing that is the problem? Would he be able to carry it across the border and sell it to a FFL?
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 10:34:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2002 10:37:03 PM EDT by Axel]
I don't know your reasons for selling, or for doing it as a package. There are no legal consequences for keeping them. If you need the money, you might be able to get almost as much by parting it out. This lets you keep the reciever, buy the parts you need again later and be back where you are now. Once you sell it, you can't go back. You also eliminate any legal consequenses since parts are only parts. You also don't have to deal with dealer fees or middlemen since you can ship parts directly with no legal risk. You might be able to ship the mags to a buyer out of state, Legally I'm not sure, but once again, when they are gone, they're gone. Look at the hassle of selling the package and the price you'll get for them, plus the chance of screwing up legally, versus just selling parts you can buy again later, no hassle and no risk. This is how the law is meant to grind you down. Your money problems are temporary. To get An AR again, you'd have to leave the state. Edited for spelling
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 10:43:32 PM EDT
As far as selling a firearm to someone in another state, it needs to go thru an FFL IN THE OTHER STATE. If you sell a firearm to someone in TX and you live in CA, it will need to go thru a TX FFL. I'd have to reread 18USC922 again, but I think you can ship it by common carrier TO the TX FFL, who will then dispose of the firearm to the resident of TX. (Insert any state in place of TX - I just used it for an example.) For the non-FFL sale to work, it needs to go between two residents of the same state, and neither one can be here in the KSSR. If you have direct family in WA (two generations up or down, or siblings) you can transfer to them with NO paperwork, as it is considered "in family." The interstate restriction does not apply, PROVIDED the other family member is legally able to recieve a firearm otherwise. As far as disposition, I would either give/transfer it to a family member that I trust implicitly (my granddad has most of my fun firearms) or just stash it somewhere real good. I have never considered selling a firearm to be a good idea for ANY reason - you may not be able to effectively replace it later... FFZ
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 11:02:59 PM EDT
How much do you want for the shorty A2 and what condition is it in. Email me.
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 1:54:26 AM EDT
FreeFireZone, Thanks, that helps a lot. I go to Vegas every so often to gamble away my life savings. I figure I can unload it there through an FFL out there. Just as long as I don't deprive my daughter of a father I'll be happy. Everyone, As far as wanting to keep everything as a package, I don't want to deal with the hassle of selling part of the rifle and being stuck with a bunch of parts that nobody wants. I may sell just the mags and just the bipod though.
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 2:12:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bailey:
Originally Posted By sociopath:
Originally Posted By Rickyj: A firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
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What does that part mean? Anybody know?
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You can get a C&R license that allows you to receive Curios and Relics without an FFL.
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Actually, a C&R [b]IS[/b] a type of FFL..... Scott
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 5:11:05 AM EDT
If you have direct family in WA (two generations up or down, or siblings) you can transfer to them with NO paperwork, as it is considered "in family." The interstate restriction does not apply, PROVIDED the other family member is legally able to recieve a firearm otherwise.
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Beware, this statement is not true. As far as Federal law is concerned, family status has no effect on interstate transfers. The only exception is if a firearm is a bequest from an estate. I believe FFZ is quoting California law. Federal law applies in interstate transfers.
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 6:03:56 AM EDT
I thought CA had laws restricting certain firearms from ENTERING CA, not leaving. You would think they would want them to leave... Anyway, If you legally own a registered AR in CA, Could you travel to another state with it, then sell it out of state... Once out of state, I don't think CA will care-- they will be happy its gone.
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 2:12:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Energizer: I thought CA had laws restricting certain firearms from ENTERING CA, not leaving. You would think they would want them to leave... Anyway, If you legally own a registered AR in CA, Could you travel to another state with it, then sell it out of state... Once out of state, I don't think CA will care-- they will be happy its gone.
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Those Kommie bastards can't tell you what you can and can not do with your shit once it's outta there.
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 3:13:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2002 3:14:23 PM EDT by stator]
Is it legal to sell an AR from California to another state?
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Yes. However, CA requires you to use an AW-approved California dealer. Note, this is a California approved, not BATF approved. BATF doesn't not approve FFLs for AWs versus non-AWs. California requres this AW-approved dealer to have a FFL (from BATF) thought. [
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 3:53:18 PM EDT
Assuming your AR is registered, state law requires you to transfer it via a state licensed "ASSault weapon" dealer. The state also requires any sale of "high capacity" magazines to be handled through a state licensed "high capacity" magazine dealer.
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 7:12:27 PM EDT
I am not an expert on Kommie law, but can't he just take the pistol grip off and keep it? If it is a postban, and doesn't have a grip, it may not be an AW under BS23 rules. Unless there is some other reason it is prohibited, taking the grip off should make it legal. You probably took the grip off anyway when the law passed, right?
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 8:29:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sewer_Urchin: Is it legal to sell an AR from California to another state? After having a daughter, I need to think of the legal consequences. The rifle has got to go. Also, having a child doesn't allow for much shooting because of time and money. Anyway, I need to know how I can get rid of it legally. Do I have to go to an out of state gun show or can I do it through a local FFL, online? What are my options? By the way, this post is not here to stir up debate over holding on to our 2nd ammendment rights and what not. I still have my M1A. In case anyone is wondering, this is what I have: -Post ban Bushmaster Shorty A2 -11 USGI 30 mags -2 Thermolds 30 -1 USGI 20 -Harris Bipod -Weaver rail I would prefer to keep the package complete and get rid of it all in one fell swoop.
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Sewer Urchin: I don't get it..you're selling your AR15 out of concern for you daughter but you are still hanging on to the M1A? If you are concerned about the firearm as a safety issue..why not just buy a small gun safe and keep it? If it is a money thing...then why go to Vegas to gamble?
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 9:23:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 10:17:55 PM EDT
I remember reading on Front Sights webb page in Las Vegas that you Kali's can store your AW's there in lockers. I'm sure they could tell you the real legal way to sell it out of Kali. www.frontsight.com/store_guns.htm But I agree you should keep the lower. Sell the upper and mags. No FFL required. Also any interstate sale. Any gun must be transfered from FFL dealer in the seller's state. To FFL dealer in the state it will be sold in. No exceptions! Receiving FFL dealer must transfer a hard copy of his FFL to FFL dealer selling. Before he can transfer the weapon. That is Federal law on interstate transfers.
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 11:01:58 PM EDT
Boston Terrier: Owning the AR in California makes me a felon. There. I said it. I didn't register it and neither did a couple hundred thousand or so other California AR owners. I wasn't even aware of the law until well after the ban passed. The issue is not money or saftey. Rather, it is that by owning an inanimate object makes me a felon which means prison. My daughter deserves to have me around so I will do what is best for her. But thanks for asking though.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 12:00:59 AM EDT
Sewer_Urchin- Check your IM. SD
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 5:48:38 AM EDT
Pretty sneaky of them to make all those unwitting legal gun owners into felons.......... Sure am glad it would never happen here. [BD]
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 5:53:25 AM EDT
Sewer_Urchin, I haven't read all of the other replies, but the path of least resistance IMO would be for you to take the rifle and accessories in person to any licensed dealer in Nevada or Arizona and sell it outright or put it on consignment. If the rifle is registered as a Cali AW you can sell it and the magazines in Cali to an AW dealer. If it's not registered you are a felon in Cali and have no real alternative to taking it out of state personally and selling it to a dealer. (You will not be considered a felon in Nevada or Arizona.)
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 6:38:19 AM EDT
Urchin, I understand your concern for your daughter. Your situation is unfortunate and you have my sympathy. Now...what to do? IF you are NOT contemplating leaving CA any time soon, and IF you are not EVER going to be using the rifle while you're there (A good idea in my opinion.), then you ought to dispose of it. Since you have not registered it, you are in violation of the law, but I don't think the CA DOJ can track it or you...yet. I would recommend you sell it in Arizona or Nevada, and keep the sale documents in a safe place as you would any legal document, just in case someone misuses the weapon later. In the meantime, you might want to secure it in a safe place in your residence...free from prying eyes and small, anal minds. Alternatively, you could always move to a free state. Lots of luck... (You know...the more I think about this, the angrier I get and the happier I am that we moved out of that fucked up state six years ago.) [pissed]
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 6:49:12 AM EDT
Just don't come here. The ISRA is saying that they are going to do the same thing here next year. When I said at least it will never happen here, that was with the knowledge that it may very well, soon.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 7:54:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sociopath: Just don't come here. The ISRA is saying that they are going to do the same thing here next year. When I said at least it will never happen here, that was with the knowledge that it may very well, soon.
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Well, now's the time to start your own grass-roots campaign to stop that shit right in it's tracks. This is how the VPC and the rest of the bleeding heart, skivvies-in-a-bunch liberals get their kicks...by telling you and me what to do and by restricting our rights! VOTE! Tell all of your friends interested in keeping their rights to VOTE. Educate the no-nothing middle of the roaders and "moderates". FIGHT THE ANTIS every chance you get. NEVER GIVE UP!!! Furthermore...for all of you gun owners who happen to be Democrats, Independents, and "Moderate" Republicans, and who voted last election for ANY Democrats, know this: No matter HOW interested those Dems might appear to have been in protecting your rights, they are members of a LARGER problem for all of us; the Democratic party. Believe me, I was a Democrat for years. The party was hijacked by the Lefty Looneys years ago and now the party planks are made up of every sort of liberal nostrum and socialist scheme...including GUN CONTROL. REMEMBER THAT FACT: THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS FOR "COMMON SENSE" GUN CONTROL! There are Dems all over the country running on that line right now. Now...just who in the hell defines "common sense"? I hear that shit daily now..."...candidate X, took on the gun lobby and fought the NRA!" (Oh...the soccer moms love that shit!) Banning of our semi-auto ugly black rifles is just one more nail in the coffin of total confiscation of all of our firearms. Your guy might act like he/she is going to protect you...but when they take power in Congress and the liberal leaders of the Democratic Party take control, WE LOSE!!! So, you union guys, you folks that vote on the basis of a single issue like abortion, you folks that might otherwise vote for the Dem...just consider the whole picture. Look at the ramifications of your vote before you pull that lever in the voting booth...but most of all...VOTE! [soapbox]
Link Posted: 10/23/2002 10:41:10 PM EDT
One option I explored was to rent a safety deposit box in a bank branch, say Reno or Vegas. $50 a year or something like that. Remove the stock and the reciever should tuck away nicely with room for plenty of mags. Legal, you get to keep it, and if there is ever an amnesty, or you need it to, say go shooting out of state, go get and do what you got to do. The mags are legal to own, all the other parts are legal to do anythng with, you avoid all the hassles, and all the other reasons I can think of to not do something you might regret later. Fed law says you have to comply with state law. State law says you cannot buy a gun out of CA. So once you give it up, it's gone till you move out of CA. YOu could also buy a DPMS ($170)single shot reciever and transfer all existing parts to it and limp by with it till something changes. And seriously, in this climate, you made someones short list. I'd move with diligent haste.
Link Posted: 10/23/2002 11:01:33 PM EDT
If it were me, I'd take the gun apart, put the pieces in seperate boxes, tape them shut, and deliver them to a buyer or FFL in Arizona or Nevada... Once you cross the CA state line you are [red]FREE[/red] to do as you wish... (Just my opinion)
Link Posted: 10/23/2002 11:27:39 PM EDT
California law does not apply outside California. But, Federal Law does. Under Federal law it is illegal to knowingly do a private sale to a resident of another state. You can sell to an FFL in any state...You can store it out of state or even buy a second home in Nevada and become a NV Resident. As long as it isn't in CA, you are legal as far as CA Law goes.
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