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Posted: 10/18/2002 5:12:59 PM EDT
[url]http://www.arizonarepublic.com/arizona/articles/1018phxbystander18.html[/url]
Bystander stomped to death outside pool hall Suspects sought in fight By Brent Whiting and Stephanie Paterik The Arizona Republic Oct. 18, 2002 NORTH PHOENIX - A fight that spilled out of a north Phoenix pool hall turned deadly Wednesday night when the three men involved took offense at a bystander who was watching and beat and stomped the man to death, authorities said. Detective Tony Morales, a police spokesman, described the incident as one of the most vicious, unprovoked attacks he has come across in more than 30 years in law enforcement. "He was minding his own business when people turned and descended on him like a pack of dogs," Morales said of the victim, who won't be identified until relatives can be notified. The three men were still at large Thursday night. "He's 20 years old, an innocent kid standing outside this pool hall who happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and was attacked by these individuals in just a horrific, brutal manner, unprovoked whatsoever." Police identified two of the men as Sammy Compton, 26, and Christopher Weston Whitley, 24, also known as "Cracker." The nickname tattooed on his head. The third suspect is unidentified but goes by "Bull Dog" and is a White male in his 20s, police said. The killing took place about 8:30 p.m. Wednesday when the victim was standing outside River City Pockets, 1107 E. Bell Road, waiting for a cab. A brawl that started inside the pool hall spilled outside, and the man watched, Morales said. One of the combatants turned to the victim and demanded to know what he was staring at, police said. The victim, sensing danger, ran but was chased down by three men who beat and stomped him to death, Morales said. The three men drove away in a red Honda sedan with tinted windows and chrome wheels. Employees were shaken by the death, a bar worker said. News of the death hadn't scared away customers Thursday; about 15 people were shooting pool and sipping beer in the afternoon. The bar has different day and night crowds, patrons say. Donna Harvey, a regular, said she will continue to visit the pool hall in the afternoons. "It doesn't surprise me that it happened in this area, because I wouldn't come up this way at night," she said while searching for a song on the jukebox. "But this (pool hall) is a nice place. I am real surprised it happened here." A cash reward is being offered for tips leading to arrests and convictions. Anyone with information should call Silent Witness at 480-WITNESS.
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Allways carry a gun.
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 5:18:57 PM EDT
Where do you see skinheads in that story?
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 5:33:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2002 5:33:44 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 5:36:04 PM EDT
Video from KPHO-TV Ch5 CBS: [url]http://www.kphotv5.com/Global/story.asp?S=977952&nav=23KtBruK[/url] More later when I get back from dinner.
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 6:10:07 PM EDT
The young man was twenty years old. He would have been denied a permit anyway. Poor slob. Denied his rights by age. JMHO
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 6:26:18 PM EDT
There are some rabid animals roaming the streets. Truly sad.
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 6:31:13 PM EDT
we should put these jackoffs in a room with the lord of the flies tribe from milwaukee and a sack full of hammers it would be fun to watch what happens
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 8:25:45 PM EDT
Man I am having the hardest time finding stills of these suckers. Even the police don't have pictures of them on their website.
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 8:33:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 10:01:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1_153_370_371_407: we should put these jackoffs in a room with the lord of the flies tribe from milwaukee and a sack full of hammers it would be fun to watch what happens
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LMAO
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 5:42:29 AM EDT
I still see no reference to skinheads. I would also think they would prefer volkswagens over hondas. Anyone remember Charlie Manson? He had a forehead tattoo and he was most definitely not a skinhead. Oh, not even going to mention the band named Cracker. It is also possible a klansman would have "cracker" tattoo'd to his forehead, they are not skinheads either. Once again armedlibel you jump to conclusions.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 5:49:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2002 5:50:15 AM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 6:00:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2002 6:03:20 AM EDT by GaryM]
Hmm... anonymous witness described as skinheads... hmm.... Ya got me, must be skinheads then. BTW, anyone have an idea if the AK74 toting, cream colored (minus one taillight)van driving, hispanic/middle-easterner gun nut up Maryland is a skinhead too? Damn, I have forgotten to take my smart pill this AM.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 6:05:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 6:13:35 AM EDT
I don't see an age limit in the second amendment. Is this another one of those "reasonable" restrictions. Old enough to vote, old enough to go to war, therefore old enough to pack heat. Immaturity be damned. If they fuck up and prove themselves to immature to own a gun, then take it away. It would be better for 100 people accidental die at the hands of "immature" teenagers than for one of the "5%" to have his rights trampled.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 6:17:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 6:43:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2002 6:59:03 AM EDT by GaryM]
Since it used to be in this country we waited for proof before we accused folk of being something nasty I will wait for proof before labeling these perpetrators "skinheads". Just because someone rides a Harley are they a member of Hells Angels? Hey, you own a gun, are you a violent wannabe sniper gun nut? I am a white guy, am I a racists simply because I don't like some black guy? I know it will never happen but I would like some real proof before making derogatory accusations. Not just a "witnesses description" I have noticed how well that has worked in Maryland. It is called a "wannabe". Just like those racing leather jacket wearing rice-rocket riders are wannabe motorcycle racers. Just like those AK firing loonies blasting everything in sight are riflemen. Just like the idiots who don their camoflage, get drunk and spray rounds at every noise in the bushes are deer hunters. I have neighbors that see me load my guns in my truck and go shooting every weekend. If they called me a racist sniper gun nut does that make it true? I guess it does to some eh? *meander mode on* I used to go to a public range to shoot, I had the willies more than once seeing how some of the folk there handled their weapons. I now belong to a private range where the level of gunmanship is astronomically higher. The people who pay for their range priviledges are so much more respectful, proffessional and so on that I have done my best to improve my skills just to feel like I can compare. After seeing how respectable "riflemen" can be I would not place 90% of the public range folk in that category. Nor would I appreciate being referred to as one of them. I think the term here is "wannabe". the private range owners are riflemen, most of the public range folk are not. *meander mode off* Editted to add: Yeah, whatever. I guess I have no reason to complain when the BATF confiscates my .223s because somebody somewhere killed a bunch of folk with one and of course because the bitch across the street described me as a gun nut. I do hope they catch these "Skinheads" and execute them AFTER a legitimate trial finds them guilty of course. Enough for me, I concede this argument. GaryM over.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 6:49:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2002 6:58:58 AM EDT by 1_153_370_371_407]
i'm fine with "witness descriptions" they looks like skinheads to me [img]home.wi.rr.com/antigov/skinheads.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 7:28:28 AM EDT
They look like angry gangsta rappers to me.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 7:40:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hmanjr: They look like angry gangsta rappers to me.
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yeah, that sounds reasonable too, given this line
The three men drove away in a red Honda sedan with tinted windows and chrome wheels.
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Link Posted: 10/19/2002 8:21:28 AM EDT
Maybe we could put some of the arguments to rest if we substitue "skinhead" and "gangsta rapper" with "asshole". I think that's a description we can all agree on.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 8:48:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2002 9:02:13 AM EDT by USPC40]
People in this country misuse the term "skinhead" as much as they misuse gun terminology. I used to be a skinhead and it had nothing to do with racism, harassing people or hurting others. Just because some asshole shaves his head and acts in a violent fashion doesn't make him a skinhead. I'm not going to go into the true history of skinheads, but needless to say the media has misled the public about skinheads since the '60s. Just remember, guns and gun owners are not the only thing the media crucifies. Here are some links if you want to learn the REAL history of skinheads: [url]www.angelfire.com/sc/lizpunk/Skinheads.html[/url] [url]www.skinheadrock.com/sections.php?op=printpage&artid=3[/url] [url]www.io.com/~qsb/words/faq/skin.html[/url] [url]beefeaterscrew.xoasis.com/skinhead_history.htm[/url] USPC40 [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/line.gif[/img] [url=www.nra.org][b][red]NRA[/red][/url] [url=www.nra.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][b][red]GOA[/red] [/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.saf.org][red]SAF[/red][/url] [url=www.saf.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][red]SAS[/red][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/b][/url] [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/alabamaflag.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 9:15:03 AM EDT
A former skinhead: [img]http://wiesenthal.speedera.net/www.wiesenthal.com/taskforce/img/TJ_2jpeglow.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.wiesenthal.com/taskforce/skinhead.cfm[/url]
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 9:26:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: A former skinhead: [url]http://wiesenthal.speedera.net/www.wiesenthal.com/taskforce/img/TJ_2jpeglow.jpg[/url] [url]http://www.wiesenthal.com/taskforce/skinhead.cfm[/url]
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Actually, what you mean to say is "A former Neo-Nazi". While I'm sure their heart is in the right place, the Simon Wiesenthal Center is another group that consistently misuses the term "skinhead". Real skinheads are individuals. While most are politically neutral, some are socialist, fascist, capitalist, etc. I suggest you read the info I linked in my last post before spreading more mis-information. USPC40 [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/line.gif[/img] [url=www.nra.org][b][red]NRA[/red][/url] [url=www.nra.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][b][red]GOA[/red] [/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.saf.org][red]SAF[/red][/url] [url=www.saf.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][red]SAS[/red][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/b][/url] [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/alabamaflag.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 9:41:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Sorry Colonel, I disagree. The VAST majority of 18 year olds are completely too immature to be trusted with a concealed firearm. I am 30 years old, I was always one of the most mature 18-21 year olds most people ever met. I however suffered from the same character flaws that many men in this age group suffer from - sense of my own immortality/invulnerability, the desire to experience one thrill after another, lack of experience in dealing with alcohol, undeveloped/underdeveloped social skills to help me extract myself from potentially violent situations without conflict, a sense that I knew everything and everyone who disagreed was an idiot. Now keep in mind, I was one of the more mature people in my age group. I am consultant for fraternities and work with more men and women under the age of 21 than you can imagine. Maybe 5% of them possess the requisite maturity to carry a concealed weapon. Now let me be the first to state that I don't think I was part of that 5% ten years ago. I was in far too many conflicts/fights/scuffles that could have ended up tragically had a firearm been present. The fact that you reacted with "bull fucking shit" makes me wonder how level headed you are. Can you not disagree without using profanity and coming across as beligerent? How old exactly are you sir?
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HiramRanger, I agree that most 18 yo kids are not mature enough for firearm ownership. But I also agree with CK that if a kid is old enough and mature enough to carry a rifle in defense of our nation, then that kid should be old enought to privately own a gun. I have had the pleasure of spending many hours with CK in chat and while he's still a kid, he's intelligent and shows great promise for his future. He might be the exception to the norm, but he's still subject to the laws which are passed under the pretext of the lowest common denominator, not the exceptional few. How about this as a happy medium? If a kid enlists in any branch of the service at age 18, then they should be granted the right to own a firearm before age 21 as long as they stay in the service. If they are booted or drop out, then they revert back to the current restrictions. Interesting?
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 10:06:05 AM EDT
Or maybe we could just increase the age for being drafted to 21. Politicians apt to start fewer stupid wars if they have to send adults instead of kids.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 10:21:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 10:30:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:I'm sorry 100 dead innocents at the hands of immature firearms owners is NOT better than having even one immature potential firearms owner told he has to wait. Why not reduce the age of voting to 16 since we can drive at that age? If we can drive and vote at 16 why not let a 16 year old have a CCW?
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Good idea, give kids the same rights as adults. Let their parents decide when they're mature enough to handle carrying a gun concealed. Who needs a nanny state?
Yeah, there is a such thing as a reasonable restriction on firearms. Violent felons should not be allowed to own firearms even after their sentence is up. Some murderers are out in under ten years, should they have the right to own a gun to facilitate their actions again?
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No, they should be dead.
Should a person with a history of mental instability be allowed to own one? I know some of you will say yes, and that my friends scares the crap out of me. Your all or nothing mentality is going to end up with us having nothing.
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Who gets to decide what constitutes mental instability?
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 10:34:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2002 10:37:24 AM EDT by BenDover]
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Sorry Ben, the old enough to get drafted argument doesn't fly with me. Yes, an 18 year old can be drafted BUT they receive far more training in firearms than the average gunowner ever does. Yes, I realize the people on this board are the exception, most of us know weapons as well as most service personnel do. However, the average soldier knows weapons better than the average gun owner. Also, an 18 year old in the military is living in a very structured and disciplined environment. Guns are stored at the base arsenal unless the soldier is in a combat area. They don;t have a kid an M16 and let him take it wherever he wants, nor an M9 for that matter. When they are using firearms it is once again in a controlled environment under supervision of NCOs and commissioned officers. I'm sorry 100 dead innocents at the hands of immature firearms owners is NOT better than having even one immature potential firearms owner told he has to wait. Why not reduce the age of voting to 16 since we can drive at that age? If we can drive and vote at 16 why not let a 16 year old have a CCW? Yeah, there is a such thing as a reasonable restriction on firearms. Violent felons should not be allowed to own firearms even after their sentence is up. Some murderers are out in under ten years, should they have the right to own a gun to facilitate their actions again? Should a person with a history of mental instability be allowed to own one? I know some of you will say yes, and that my friends scares the crap out of me. Your all or nothing mentality is going to end up with us having nothing.
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Wait... I didn't say all or nothing. I said I saw arguments on both sides of the issue. That's why I think a good compromise is to let underage kids who want to own guns be permitted private ownership as long as they are enlisted. I know that when you are in the service, that even private guns have to be checked in. That's why it's no problem with me. If a kid wants to buy a handgun and shoot at ranges, they can do it at age 18 as long as they are in the structured environment. Since you added to the discussion... I don't think violent offenders should have their rights restored. But non-violent offenders is another story. I also think that it's extremely difficult to regulate anything with mental instability. Unless a person is declared mental by a court, they can still buy, even if they are kookier than a monkey. How do you evaluate who is crazy or not? I know people who should have been declared whacko by the courts many years ago. Yet, because they have no "history" of illness, they can buy a gun. That's a topic for a different thread.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 11:39:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 12:38:26 PM EDT
Rickyj, you are correct sir. We have a lot of America lovers out there but when it comes to fightin' for her.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 3:16:12 PM EDT
I don't think there isn't a skinhead in the story. Besides, it said that the suspects drove in a Honda vehicle. Skinheads don't drive foreign cars like Honda, Toyota, Hyundai. Many of them drive domestic cars. I doubt a skinhead was involved in the attack incident.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 4:20:00 PM EDT
If it looks like a duck , quacks like a duck ... I don't care if those fucks are "skinheads" or just look like it , they need hunted down & killed ! But we'll have to get an ACLU lawyer to defend them first ! This is Arizona and when put on trial (if the Phoenix PD can find them ) ,convicted , they WILL be injected on the "TABLE OF DEATH" . This town is just getting to be a shit hole just like L.A. ! Can't wait to retire so I can move up to my place up north . Only 9 more years to go ! And my 20 year old is pissed because to carry concealed here , you must be 21. Well , I hope he can figure out how to conceal a Sig P-220 'cause that's what he's getting for his birthday !
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 4:31:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: However, the average soldier knows weapons better than the average gun owner.
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Define soldier. Do you mean a military member? If so I disagree with your statement. In my experience the average military member has NO CLUE about guns. Now if you mean infantry guys than maybe I can almost agree with you.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 4:50:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By USPC40:
Originally Posted By DScott: A former skinhead: [url]http://wiesenthal.speedera.net/www.wiesenthal.com/taskforce/img/TJ_2jpeglow.jpg[/url] [url]http://www.wiesenthal.com/taskforce/skinhead.cfm[/url]
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Actually, what you mean to say is "A former Neo-Nazi". While I'm sure their heart is in the right place, the Simon Wiesenthal Center is another group that consistently misuses the term "skinhead". Real skinheads are individuals. While most are politically neutral, some are socialist, fascist, capitalist, etc. I suggest you read the info I linked in my last post before spreading more mis-information. USPC40 [url]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/line.gif[/url] [url=www.nra.org][b][red]NRA[/red][/url] [url=www.nra.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][b][red]GOA[/red] [/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.saf.org][red]SAF[/red][/url] [url=www.saf.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][red]SAS[/red][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/b][/url] [url]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/alabamaflag.gif[/url]
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No, I said what I meant to say. This is how he describes [b]himself[/b]. In that interview, he states: "I was not quiet about my involvement with the skin head movement and its purpose." Good enough for me. I'm sure not all skinheads are neo-nazis or white supremacists, and didn't mean to imply that. Clearly not all neo-nazis or white supremacists are skinheads as well.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 10:50:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1_153_370_371_407: I don't see an age limit in the second amendment.
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[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 5:17:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By 1_153_370_371_407: I don't see an age limit in the second amendment.
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[rolleyes]
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[moon]
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