Seems my name came up on the list
of people who own AR-15s....now if
that isn't proof of gun registration,
I don't know what is...

BTW, I didn't buy a PRE-BAN, but a
POST BAN, which only has to go thru
4473 and NICS, not the MD State
police.....guess the FIB has a list
of all guns sold in this country
from FFLs.....

Anyway, I never met the FBI dudes personally.

My grandmother wouldn't let them into the
door or talk to them, just gave them
my mother's phone number...

(I'm hearing impaired BTW, and wouldn't have heard the
doorbell)

Anyway, my mother talked to them on the phone
and seems they also visited another guy
on my street, a lawyer who owns two "rifles".,....

... Wow, this is the most discouraging thread I've read in weeks.


WTF?

Isn't this list of firearms and their owners against a written law?

Its the FBI...they don't have to obey the law [shock]

Of course it is Cousin, don't be ridiculous!  But, they are FAR more worried about catching us breaking silly, stupid, pointless, dumb, insignificant "gun laws" than to actually following the laws as they apply to them.  Hey, if I can get any of y'all to put me through law school, I PROMISE to spend the rest of life as a crusader against all things stupid, starting with "gun laws"!!!


Edited to add that you also have to support me and my family at our current standard of living whilst I go to law school.  So, any takers???

Since when did LAW interfere with JBT harrasment of law-abiding citizens?

Works like this - At least once per year, sometimes more all gun shops have a "compliance check".  Good cop keeps the dealer busy checking serial numbers, while the bad one searches through all the 4473's.  Writes down what intersts him and you have those guns "registered".

Bottom line is, law or no law if you fill out a yellow form the JBTs can easily get the serial number, and often do.  Of course, I'm sure the puke in MD filled one out!

I am pretty sure they get around that by making gun dealers keep records of everything.  They just confiscate the dealers records or make copies of things that interest them.

I'm expecting a visit from the feds.  Just found out the ATF confiscated the logbook of the range I go to.  I'm calling the FFL that transfered my AR to me to see if they have been visiting.  

Hopefully they don't bother me.. but I'd rather not be caught off guard when they show up.

Yes it does.

Wonderfull......

So instead of using legitimate investigation techniques,they've decided to break their own law and knock on the doors of every gun owner on their illegal list that might own a rifle in the calibre they think is being used in these crimes.?!

This country is really going down hill!

What the fuck would we expect from a Gore administration?

Lawsuit time!

Where the hell is the NRA, 2AF, and GOA?

You guys need to start filing now.

... this is so fucked, this is [u]the[/u] day we've always fretted about. I'm so pissed if this is actually true.
Talk about polarizing the Nation!
Damn I've so pissed now!

... WTF are they doing?

Dskeet,
Make a road trip to my house I am probably 3 hours Max from you. I don't think any of us are safe but if you need me I am here.
Samuel

I didn't like the fact that they wanted notification on long gun purchases in the first place. They said they were so concerned with street crime, yet they ignored handguns. Like that would have made any difference. They were only supposed to keep the lists 6 months. I thought they were being sued because they didn't destroy them. This is typical of the federal government and the FBI in particular. My suggestion to anyone facing this same situation would be to say: "Get a warrant."

http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20021017-90194126.htm

The Washington Times
www.washtimes.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Authorities check gun shops for clues
Steve Miller
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Published 10/17/2002


------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Investigators hunting the Washington area sniper have cast the net far and wide over the region's gun community — confiscating sign-in logs from shooting ranges, tracking sales of .223-caliber weapons and knocking on gun owners' doors.
    Montgomery County police and agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) came knocking on the door of Ken Scott's home in Silver Spring twice last week, asking for his thoughts about the shooting spree and about where he was during the times of the shootings.
    Mr. Scott, confident the account of his whereabouts eliminated him as a suspect, said that either his neighbors gave his name on the tip line or investigators singled him out because he owns a gun shop.
    On Tuesday, ATF agents arrived at Mr. Scott's Article II Unlimited store in Silver Spring accompanied by a man who had sold Mr. Scott a .223-caliber rifle — the same round that has killed nine and wounded two persons in the sniper attacks. The agent wanted to see the gun, but it had already been resold, Mr. Scott said.
   [b][blue] "Based on what they said to me, it seemed they were checking everyone who owned any gun that shoots that [.223-caliber] ammunition," Mr. Scott said.[/b][/blue]
    [b][blue]Some gun owners reported that ATF agents had taken people's rifles to perform test-firing experiments and later returned the weapons. [/b][/blue]The Washington Times could not confirm the reports.
    Authorities declined to comment on the probe of gun dealers and gun owners. An FBI spokesman for the multiagency task force searching for the sniper said that they were using every possible strategy to catch the killer, and that countless interviews were being conducted.
    U.S. marshals from the task force questioned the owner of Schelin Guns in College Park last week about a [b][blue]man who took a firearms-safety class at the shop in late September, less than a week before the shooting spree began Oct. 2 in Montgomery County.[/b][/blue]
    The federal agents checked the class roster and asked about sales of .223-caliber rifles, said store owner John Schelin, who had not recently sold that type of weapon.
    The agents told Mr. Schelin that they were following a tip about a specific man who took the class, which is mandatory when purchasing handguns or rifles such as AK-47s or AR-15s, which are considered assault weapons.
    A Northern Virginia man recently visited by ATF agents was asked whether he owned a .223-caliber weapon or had access to a white van, which has been seen at the scene of some of the shootings. The man, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said he answered no to both questions, and the agents left.
    [b][blue]He also said the agents told him that neighbors submitted his name to the tip line because he owns guns.[/b][/blue]
    "You have all these news agencies saying to call the tip line if you know anybody who owns guns, if you know anybody with a white truck or anybody acting suspicious. You know, people act on that," he said. "It's too broad of a spectrum, and the ATF have to be thorough."
    [b][blue]ATF agents last week confiscated the sign-in log from the firing range[/b][/blue] at Clark Brothers Guns in Warrenton, Va. The log included the signatures, some illegible, of customers who had used the range during the past six months, said owner Steve Clark.
    "I don't know what they hope to glean from it," he said. "I guess they are trying anything."
    Lamar Miller, a handwriting expert in Summerland Key, Fla., formerly with the Alabama State Forensic Lab, said the signatures could provide information beyond who used the range.
     But it would be difficult to link a signature to the writing on the tarot card found at the scene of the Oct. 7 shooting outside a Bowie school that critically wounded a 13-year-old boy, he said.
    "That's not to say it can't be done," Mr. Miller said. "You could find some similarities that might bear following up. They are trying to find some similarities such as the size of the letters and the shape of the letters. If there are [similarities] they would probably try to obtain more writing samples."
    Task force investigators also paid a call on the Bethesda-Chevy Chase chapter of the Izaak Walton League of America, a conservationist and outdoorsman organization that operates a private firing range in Poolesville on the western edge of Montgomery County.
    [b][blue]ATF agents have visited numerous gun shops in the Washington area to review sales records and federal 4473 forms that list buyer information for every firearms sale. In some instances, the investigators made copies of documents[/b][/blue], said gun shop owners and employees.

Copyright © 2002 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you all written your legislators about this?  It does no good to complain here because we can't do anything about it.

Write to your members of Congress and tell them how pissed off you are that the ATF has some sort of gun registration system and is tracking down people.


[url]http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/[/url]

Thats where I go shooting [:|]


And Samuel.. thanks for the offer, but I don't think I have anything to worry about.  And fleeing the state wouldn't look very good [;D]

If they did, he was probably told not to divulge the information under threat of "obstruction of justice" or "hindering an investigation."  Don't believe him - assume they did!

What is the section of the US code that prohibits them from doing this?

I'd like to be able to quote it when I complain, where do I find it?

[url]www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=134951&perpage=25&pagenumber=1[/url]

i have always been taught that the only dumb question is the one that is not ask.so im going to ask because i don't really understand the big deal if the fbi or govt knows what gun are own?the only reason i can think of is if the outlaw guns.so is that the correct answer?

The time is drawing near boys. What's it gonna' be?

Are we going to passively sit by and allow this miscarriage of Constitutional freedom happen without lifting a finger?

We have to mobilize on a public awareness campaign to highlight these "investigations" which borderline on being conducted in an illegal fashion.

Where's the NRA, SAF, etc???

Your welcome. You are absolutly right and it would not look good at all.
It just looks more and more like we are being rounded up. Or should I say "they" are ready for something.
Samuel

Thats a very GOOD question...

Lets look at it this way. The FOX is paid to keep our HENHOUSE safe from outside forces.

The HENS own guns. This is why the FOX does not try to exert "too much" force when he gets hungry.

Anyway, it is LAW that the FOX is not supposed to know where the guns are, for if he did he could get REALLY HUNGRY some day and take the guns before dining on the HENS.

If you can figure out who is the FOX and who the HENS are, then you will be smarter.

Lets do it. Ten million patriot march!
I vote liberty86 as our speaker. Maybe we can get a pole to show us how many would show up and how many friends they will bring. I would not what do be the only one. I get too much of that already. We could all be wearing the same t-shirt and really whoop-ass.
Samuel

FUCK!!!!


They have a "tipline" for neighbors to snitch on you because your a "gun owner"!?!?!

WTF???!?!!?

... a piece of art sir!

Sure do Byron - and thats just a little part of the grand scheme of things. Several major cities (of which I don't recall, so perhaps other board members can contribute) have sent their police officers into schools with 'TIP' cards so that 4th, 5th and 6th graders can call in 'gun owners' themselves - legal or not, as I highly doubt most public school indoctrinated kids can tell the difference. They are offered monetary rewards for their 'information' with regards to suspected (the key word) illegal gun ownership.

Nazi Germany did the same thing with their children.

Only a matter of time.

Unfucking believable.....HKgunnr!

I guess its time to start firing off some letters!?

I don't know what the hell else too do.

Jesus this is a shitty situation!On the one hand I have a right to do what I please in a lawfull fasion and not be timid about it.

On the other hand I feel like keeping a low profile so I don't rate one those JBT courtesy calls,and lose thousands of dollars in firearms in some cockamaimy confiscation scheme.

YES. Any opposition brought against the actions of the current administration will most likely harm the chances of a GOP controlled house and senate and most importantly the re-election of bush for a second term.

I suggest that you all accept the lesser of 2 evils and hold your noses while the feds have your guns for ballistic fingerprinting. At least you will be able to keep your guns a little while longer...if your firearms are returned.

You must not be up on current events, son. The TIPS program was started as part of Homeland Defense. Civilians are encouraged to inform on suspicious acting neighbors.

Oh I'm up on events,just didn't think being a gunowner made you a suspect.

Guess that means there are.......what? Some 80+ million law abiding gunowners,now reguarded as suspects in this country?

Thats part of it, send off those letters to your congress-critters.

And in that spare time, hit the range and practice to sharpen those skills, enjoy your hobby without shame.

Buy a copy of 'Unintended Consequences' by John Ross for those coming cold winter nights.

And after reading the novel, if you get around to it, buy some hogs. [;)]

I can't believe what I am reading.

I.. just can't fucking believe it.

Does anyone have  pull with the NRA, so that we can find out if they are aware of this?


Nazi, Faschist bastards.

[b]WE ARE AT WAR[/b] and during wartime, everyone is a possible suspect. Don't you forget that.

So the govt is for sure keeping a list of what we own now???? Im feeling extremely paranoid and contemplating selling my rifles. I can't be getting a visit from the Fbi if some nut starts shooting people in my town , it will ruin my reputation and hurt my business.

This is a very sad day, and it is undoubtedly just a fraction of what is to come. Unconstitutional door to door searches based on the ownership of legal and constitutionally protected firearms. Worst of all it is somehow not only accepted but expected by most people. I don't know about you but I think that by the time this is over it will pain me more than September 11. September 11 was perpetrated by foreign enemies in so many ways different than ourselves. But now every day in the news I see masked men with assault rifles breaking every great principle and freedom that our forefathers fought and died for. It sickens me to see the murder of innocent people become prime time entertainment as our media tries to make a dime over this tragedy. My fellow countrymen who were quick to stand together to protect middle eastern immigrants who became targets of hate after 9-11 are now standing side by side to persecute their fellow citizens. It really makes me want to cry. Please let it end soon.

P.S. Bush opposes the ballistic fingerprinting law. Ari gave a press release stating this, and commenting 'Why pass more gun laws? The criminals don't care about breaking the ones we have, and no gun law would have stopped the DC sniper!'...

P.S.S. Bush stated numerous times during his run for president that he was against campaign finance reform, but signed it into law anyway.

... few sheep understand the impact this had on us

I'm all in support of our President, but he's a politician, just like the rest of them.

This crap couldnt have been at a worse time for us, prior to the 2004 elections, you can bet the farm gun control WILL be an issue next time around.

Bush beating Gore - THANK GOD, but I'm starting to feel that we're just delaying the inevitable.

Just like papa Bush screwed us over regarding the 'black rifles' I can see Jr. caving too.

Republicans by name arent our friends, they've 'helped' the anti's more than us, heres the proof:

[url]http://reformed-theology.org/html/issue11/dont_blame_liberals.htm[/url]

Don’t Blame Liberals for Gun Control

by Richard Poe


NEWSMAX.COM - Anti-gun crusaders seem worried about the advent of a Republican administration. Heaven knows why. Republicans, in recent years, have managed to do nearly as much damage to the Second Amendment as Democrats.

In 1969, journalist William Safire asked Richard Nixon what he thought about gun control. "Guns are an abomination," Nixon replied. According to Safire, Nixon went on to confess that, "Free from fear of gun owners' retaliation at the polls, he favored making handguns illegal and requiring licenses for hunting rifles."

It was President George Bush, Sr. who banned the import of "assault weapons" in 1989, and promoted the view that Americans should only be allowed to own weapons suitable for "sporting purposes."

It was Governor Ronald Reagan of California who signed the Mulford Act in 1967, "prohibiting the carrying of firearms on one's person or in a vehicle, in any public place or on any public street." The law was aimed at stopping the Black Panthers, but affected all gun owners.

Twenty-four years later, Reagan was still pushing gun control. "I support the Brady Bill," he said in a March 28, 1991 speech, "and I urge the Congress to enact it without further delay."

One of the most aggressive gun control advocates today is Republican mayor Rudolph Giuliani of New York City, whose administration sued 26 gun manufacturers in June 2000, and whose police commissioner, Howard Safir, proposed a nationwide plan for gun licensing, complete with yearly "safety" inspections.

Another Republican, New York State Governor George Pataki, on August 10, 2000, signed into law what The New York Times called "the nation’s strictest gun controls," a radical program mandating trigger locks, background checks at gun shows and "ballistic fingerprinting" of guns sold in the state. It also raised the legal age to buy a handgun to 21 and banned "assault weapons," the sale or possession of which would now be punishable by seven years in prison.

Gun control crusaders argue that the Republicans are simply yielding to grassroots pressure, to gain political advantage. But polls show little evidence of such pressure.

A Gallup/CNN/USA Today survey taken in June 1999 – only two months after the Littleton massacre – showed that the number of Americans who favored stricter gun laws had declined by 20 percent since 1990.

Public support for gun control has dwindled even further since then. An Associated Press poll released on the one-year anniversary of the Littleton shootings shows that Americans favor strict enforcement of existing laws over new gun laws – the exact position of the National Rifle Association (NRA) – by 42 to 33 percent.

That same month, a survey by the Pew Research Center showed that only 6 percent of Americans believed that tougher gun laws would prevent future school shootings.

Meanwhile, a Tarrance Group poll has shown that only 5 percent of Americans want gunmakers and gun dealers held responsible for misuse of firearms.

Clearly, the pressure for gun control is not coming from the grassroots. It comes from those layers of society that the left calls the "ruling classes" – academics, Hollywood stars, Washington insiders and multibillion-dollar media conglomerates.

The latter are particularly influential in pushing anti-gun propaganda. A study by the Media Research Center released in January 2000 showed that television news stories calling for stricter gun laws outnumbered those opposing such laws by a ratio of 10 to 1.

The blame for this media bias is traditionally assigned to "liberal journalists." And, indeed, most journalists do hold left-of-center views. A 1996 survey of working journalists by the Roper Center and the Freedom Forum showed that 89 percent had voted for Bill Clinton in 1992. Only 4 percent identified themselves as Republicans and only 2 percent as conservatives.

Yet, their "liberal" views probably have less impact on the media’s anti-gun bias than most people assume. Rank-and-file reporters have little power to influence the political spin even of their own stories.

When I worked at the New York Post in the mid-1980s, I found the newsroom filled with liberals. They grumbled constantly about the paper’s conservative slant. But they went along with it, because it was company policy.

Liberal news organizations are no different. Political bias comes from the top. Rank-and-file reporters simply do what they are told.

Those of us who cherish our Second Amendment rights are keeping our fingers crossed about George W. Bush. But the monolithic commitment America’s "ruling classes" have shown toward gun control makes one wonder whether even a president is free to buck the current.

Sounds believable enough too me.

My question then is.....Why do these people,who are obviously living comfortable lives,give a damn about stealing away the rights of the common man?

Whats the hair up their ass?

My Bushy lowers went to MD a couple years ago.  I hope they're sitting inside someone's safe right about now.

Man O Man. I knew I should have moved to the country. Now, Where did I put my Money? Darn, in my guns.

The question we should ask is,,,,Are we going to take this LAYING DOWN???????????  Sure looks like it. Send as many letters to your congressmans and do it NOW. Those idiots think they can keep us grounded by making life hard for us all *3 paycheck family* to the point that we don't keep up with their ignorance. and those anti-gun dingbats. what a bunch of bums.

Thats it. I'm kicking my defenses up a couple of notches.    

Oh man. On the back of my driver's license, it says hearing aid or full view mirror. If I ever got a visit like he did, I would say it's because I suffer from CHS (Can't Hear Sh!t) [}:D]

damn man, thats some depressing stuff to read

most gun owners will just roll over