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Posted: 10/17/2002 8:07:21 AM EDT
Originally posted by Another Patriot in FLA: [QB]Posted on Wed, Oct. 09, 2002 SWAT team invades elderly widow's home By Stu Bykofsky Daily News Columnist IT'S 10 a.m. on a quiet Sunday morning in Oxford Circle. The coffee's making, the birds are chirping. An elderly widow is in her bathroom, toweling off after a shower. A four-member Philadelphia Police Department SWAT team arrives - clutching a search warrant for guns and drugs - and pounds on her Sylvester Street door. A neighbor hollers to the cops they've got the wrong house. They tell her to shut up and go back inside. With the pounding unanswered - the 4-foot-8, 85-year-old grandmother doesn't know the sound is coming from her own door - the SWAT team pulls out a battering ram to break down the front door. It doesn't yield because, for safety's sake, the widow's son had it reinforced some years back. Undeterred, the SWAT team places an explosive charge on the door just as the widow, Sandy Cohen, is walking down the stairs from the second floor to the living room. "They blew off her front door with an explosive device and entered in full gear with lasers pointed toward her chest," said her son, Steve Cohen, who lives on the West Coast but rushed home to Philly after the incident. Sandy Cohen raised her arms defensively and told the armed cops they were in the wrong house, according to her son. "That's what everyone says," one officer scoffed, according to the 55-year-old Cohen, a journalist who was general manager of WCAU-TV from 1983 to 1990. His mother, who has heart problems, was standing in the middle of the smoke-filled room, coughing. After a quick inspection, the cops lowered their weapons and lifted their visors. "It looks like we got the wrong house," Cohen quotes one of them as saying. "The SWAT team acted appropriately, once they realized what they did," said Cohen. "We are not anti-cop here." But a horrible - and almost tragic - mistake was made and Cohen wants some answers. To get them, he hired attorney Gilbert Scutti, who sent letters to city solicitor Nelson Diaz and Police Commissioner Sylvester Johnson on Oct. 1. Scutti termed the actions of the police "indefensible; it creates a grotesquerie of police work... it is only through the greatest good fortune that the price she paid was not the ultimate one: the same abject ineptitude that drove this cast of incompetents to make violent entry into her home could have resulted in her being fatally wounded." Scutti intends to file a civil rights and personal injury lawsuit in federal court in 30 days, he said in the letter, to "plumb the depths of the incompetence of all responsible parties." The letter told both Johnson and Diaz that Scutti was available to discuss the incident prior to filing suit. As of yesterday, Scutti had not been contacted either by police or the city solicitor. Johnson was out of town yesterday but had Karen Simmons, his senior legal counsel, speak to me. "The Police Department is currently looking into the matter to see what happened," she said. Milton Velez, a special assistant to Diaz, told me he was researching the case and "we are trying to address the situation." While seemingly livid in his letter, Scutti can't be characterized as anti-cop. From 1972 to 1978, he was the chief of the criminal division of the U.S. attorney's office in Philadelphia. For my part, I would like to hear about the procedures that resulted in the raid on Sandy Cohen's house. The cops had a warrant based on information from an informer, who was either mistaken or lying. One question that hangs in the air is whether the cops performed any surveillance or investigation before bursting into a widow's home, guns drawn, scaring her nearly half to death. Something is wrong here in addition to the address on the search warrant. [URL=http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/4243257.htm]http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/4243257.htm[/URL] *********
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 8:12:42 AM EDT
Very disturbing. I also question the pre-raid intelligence. If they took even five minutes to verify that they had the right placeI would be impressed. This one has JBT written all over it.
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 8:26:16 AM EDT
HOW DARE A PEE-ON SERF TRY TO TELL THE JBT'S THEY HAVE THE WRONG HOUSE !!!! THEY ARE LUCKY THEY WERE NOT KICKED TO THE CURB FOR BEING MOUTHY !! What a fucking joke. Why can't these ninja wannabe's get their info verified BEFORE they go breaking down someones door ?!?!?! This poor woman is lucky she was'nt shot in the face and her house burned to the ground. I hope they sue the shit out of them.
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 8:27:38 AM EDT
Isn't this where the LEO supporters step up and claim [i]"we don't know the whole story. This women was probably involved in something. They don't just raid the wrong people"[/i]. Or something like that.
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 8:31:52 AM EDT
Would't their mothers be proud! Death to tyrants!
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 8:34:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights: Isn't this where the LEO supporters step up and claim [i]"we don't know the whole story. This women was probably involved in something. They don't just raid the wrong people"[/i]. Or something like that.
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Well, that along with the standard holier than thou responses and labeling people as COP BASHERS !!!
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 8:44:07 AM EDT
What are you all complaining about? The police knocked. What's important is that all officers involved got home safe for their families that night.
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 8:47:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SOF1: Would't their mothers be proud! Death to tyrants!
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I'd settle for being able to hold them criminally and civilly accountable in the courts. If we were able to sue them [b]personally[/b] for their actions, we would see a behavior change pronto. Unfortunatly, the taxpayer pays both ways for these idiots. We pay for their wages/equipment, then pay when they fvck up THEIR job! What a deal....[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 8:53:34 AM EDT
Ya know, all this kind of shit tells me is these ninja wannabees are shooting from the hip....................if your doing your job right and doing it professionally.........you have this little step called.........RECON! friggin amatuers
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 8:55:49 AM EDT
Where are all the boys defending this anyway?
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 8:59:11 AM EDT
PHILADELPHIA??? AGAIN??? WHERE THE HELL DO THEY GET THEIR COPS??? THE PSYCHO WARD??? TRAINING CENTERS FOR THE MENTALLY RETARDED???
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 9:02:17 AM EDT
So, I know everybody else is dying to know... how much crack did they find in her coochie?
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 10:08:50 AM EDT
just be glad she didnt go down stairs with a gun or she would be dead now.
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 10:16:53 AM EDT
Here we go again. When will you cop bashers get it through your thick skulls that [b]WE ARE AT WAR!!!!!!!!!!!![/b] In order to be effective in anti-terrorism operations, like the IDF and Mossad, there has to be an acceptible level of collateral damage. It is a very small price to pay in defending our great democracy.
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 10:17:27 AM EDT
Do you have a url for this article? tia
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 10:22:56 AM EDT
whaddya get when you breed the keystone cops with heinrich himler???
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 10:25:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 9divdoc: Do you have a url for this article? tia
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Did ya actually [i]read[/i] the article? [;)] Hint - it's at the bottom - [url]www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/4243257.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 10:27:35 AM EDT
So tell me this-- what would have happened if she had a gun on her hand, or shot at the "intruders"??? This crap happens WAY TOO OFTEN.
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 10:31:15 AM EDT
that f*ckin b1tch had it commin'. barricded door? yeah she was in the shower flushing all that meth down the drain. AND had the coffee pot brewing unattended. what did she expect a key to the city. f*cking birds were probably look-outs. yeah, she was coughing all right, from the hit she took off that crack pipe.
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 10:43:03 AM EDT
feel sorry for the swat dudes! could you imagine the horror of comin the door to see an 85 year old lady that just got out of the shower?! EEWWWWWWW! [whacko]
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 10:46:13 AM EDT
LMFAO, Cohiba! Looks like granny is [Jefferson's Theme][i]movin' on up---to the east side, to a deluxe apartment in the sky. [/i][/Jefferson's Theme] Sue the ass off those bastards, and teach them to read. If they are as culpable as they sound, those morons should lose their jobs and be required to pay restitution out of their own hides. How unfortunate that they will likely be able to hide behind the shield of police immunity. Sad, but for some reason I am not surprised by this crap and nonsense. That being said, people in every profession mess up- doctors remove the wrong leg, dentists can drill on the wrong tooth. When a cop screws up, things get serious.
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 10:48:54 AM EDT
This is Philadelphia, home of the "2 lbs of C4 + 5 gallons of gasoline = 60 homes burned down"
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 10:57:52 AM EDT
To call this incident pathetic would be a gross understatement.
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 11:01:21 AM EDT
Except for the bad recon and the wrong address, they acted correctly. I do believe that this negligence warrants some lost jobs and a second pension for the elderly woman.
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 11:15:40 AM EDT
i wonder if granny ever peeled her wet tires when a leaving a carwash?
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 11:24:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 11:30:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Originally posted by Another Patriot in FLA: For my part, I would like to hear about the procedures that resulted in the raid on Sandy Cohen's house. The cops had a warrant based on information from an informer, who was either mistaken or lying. One question that hangs in the air is whether the cops performed any surveillance or investigation before bursting into a widow's home, guns drawn, scaring her nearly half to death. Something is wrong here in addition to the address on the search warrant.
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"Wrong house" imply's they went to the wrong address. These last three paragraphs make it clear they went to the house they were sent to, the one listed on the warrant.
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 11:35:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 11:36:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan: "Wrong house" imply's they went to the wrong address. These last three paragraphs make it clear they went to the house they were sent to, the one listed on the warrant.
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So what are you trying to say, that they were "just following orders"??
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 11:37:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Originally Posted By 9divdoc: Do you have a url for this article? tia
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Did ya actually [i]read[/i] the article? [;)] Hint - it's at the bottom - [url]www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/4243257.htm[/url]
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Oh yeah...thanks...Rust Never Sleeps..but sometimes it isnt paying attention...hehe
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 11:44:32 AM EDT
[Cartman] Are you questioning my ATHORITEE!!! I will come to your house, kick in your door, and KILL you. You better shut up fat ass!!![/Cartman] Another reason no knock raids should not be done. Luckily this one didn't end in death like the one BenDover posted about not too long ago. I'd wager if we compared notes. We'd expose more no-knock related deaths than accidental firearm deaths. I like LEO's (you have to say that to avoid an anti-leo bias) but I fear this militatarization mind set. It's one thing to be equipped to do a job, but another thing to be ready to use violent and deadly force against average citizens. I'm glad the neigboor wasn't shot in order to protect the suprise of the no-knock. Imagine if the neighbor had used a cell phone to call the old lady to tell her to come to her door and open up as cops were about to bust it down. Would he have been killed as an accomplis who was going to blow to operation? If the old lady had opened the door with a cell phone in hand, wouuld she have been killed by an officer pumped up on adrenelin scared shitless and ready to shoot it out with bad guys? The bad thing about all this is no one will be punished except for the tax payers. Who will be the ones paying the bill to defend these POS's and their fines after wards.
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 1:56:21 PM EDT
ok then, What would happen if the persons house(which was the wrong house) shot at these SWAT members at night not knowing it was Law Enforcement? Ofcourse they would prolly not be alive to tell their side. But would they be in the wrong? If they lived could they be prosecuted for murder?
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 2:04:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: ok then, What would happen if the persons house(which was the wrong house) shot at these SWAT members at night not knowing it was Law Enforcement? Ofcourse they would prolly not be alive to tell their side. But would they be in the wrong? If they lived could they be prosecuted for murder?
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They would be dead, but if they lived they would be treated like a cop killer even though it was the cops that fucked up. You have a right to defend your home and family against home invasion........EXCEPT if its the cops doing the home invasion. Pretty nice double standard huh.
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 2:08:07 PM EDT
Boy I sure hope those Swat guys had belt fed weapons to protect them from granny. That son of hers should go to jail for reinforcing that door, a policeman could have been hurt while trying to break in the door. And some of you wonder why people think cops have too much power, or don't deserve unquestioned respect. [whacko]
Link Posted: 10/17/2002 2:10:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB: i wonder if granny ever peeled her wet tires when a leaving a carwash?
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ROTFLMFAO!!! Be right back - gotta clean up my monitor....
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 1:30:36 AM EDT
All that hard work reinforcing the door just to have jbt's blow it up. I bet they were wearing masks too.
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 2:10:47 AM EDT
she had it coming... I "heard" she was running a bingo number's racket! [whacko] I betcha it was a "new" swat team that wanted to practice it's newly learned entry techniques, can't blame 'em for trying someplace safe! [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 5:21:16 AM EDT
A few years ago a Denver SWAT team raided a house. Yup, wrong address. The home owner just happened to be inside cleaning a pistol. He popped, and killed the first cop through the door. For whatever unfathomable reason the rest of the invaders didn't light him up. He was simply arrested for murder. Colorado has what the press love to call "the Make-my-day law." You CAN shoot home invaders. When the trial came around the judge looked at the facts, wrong address on the search warrent, home owner in the right. Case dismissed. Score one for the good guys. And yes, my condolences go out to the officer's family. But there is NO excuse for raiding the wrong house. And one officer paid the ultimate price, for once.
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 5:39:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan: "Wrong house" imply's they went to the wrong address. These last three paragraphs make it clear they went to the house they were sent to, the one listed on the warrant.
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Yeah, that still means there was a collosal screw up. I don't think that the SWAT cops that are given a warrant to execute, through the chain of commnand, signed by a Judge, etc. etc. Should have to launch their own investigation into whether or not the warrant is up to their standards. However the detective, officer, etc that gathered the info, completed a report, applied for a warrant ect. SHOULD BE PRESENT WHEN THE WARRANT IS SERVED. Now if they go to the wrong house........Wouldn't the investigating officer be able to stop a "wrong address" warrant from being served. I haven't read the article. I would say that the investigating officer should be in signifigant trouble. I wonder if he didn't have a snitch........saw a reinforced door............ and made up some of his info.
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 5:48:28 AM EDT
What would you guys recommend is the best way to "reinforce" my doors??? hehe (seriously) Nothing illegal about it....
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 5:52:27 AM EDT
I'd settle for being able to hold them criminally and civilly accountable in the courts.
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Bowers vs. DeVito & many others. Cops can't be held liable for their actions. The city can but the Cops can't. I believe the woman legally would have to file against her homeowners insurance for repair costs though the PD or city may pick up the tab to save face.
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 6:29:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 6:41:23 AM EDT
Yeah, I think my dept has something like 20,000 warrants on file. Most of the time arrest warrants are served, kinda like telemarketers, cold knock. Knock, knock,..... Hello, hello is Joe here? Just a sec......Hello Joe.... I know.... Search warrants, like this sounds like, are generally "time sensitive" meaning the warrant has a "use by" date on it, usually a week from issuance. Generally they are issued in active investigations. So the investigator should have recent contact, surveillance, and evidence gathering done. There really is no excuse to get a search warrant listing the wrong address. I think tho' the set time requirement would be very cumbersome, and very easy to counteract by BG's.
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 10:34:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Energizer: What would you guys recommend is the best way to "reinforce" my doors??? hehe (seriously) Nothing illegal about it....
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IT IS ILLEGAL in some states to reinforce the entry points of your home as to impede entry by police or firefighters. If you still want to be a criminal, there are instructions in "Patriots: Surviving The Coming Collapse".
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 11:15:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Originally Posted By Energizer: What would you guys recommend is the best way to "reinforce" my doors??? hehe (seriously) Nothing illegal about it....
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IT IS ILLEGAL in some states to reinforce the entry points of your home as to impede entry by police or firefighters. If you still want to be a criminal, there are instructions in "Patriots: Surviving The Coming Collapse".
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Ever hear of Windows?
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 6:51:18 PM EDT
if she had had a heart attack from the scare would they have been charged with felony murder? afterall, it was the wrong house, so technially they were breaking and entering
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 9:25:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sharky30: if she had had a heart attack from the scare would they have been charged with felony murder? afterall, it was the wrong house, so technially they were breaking and entering
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Yeah, a conspiracy, and they were armed, used an explosive device, etc.
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