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Posted: 10/10/2002 6:02:22 PM EDT
Did anyone else catch the story on CBS evening news about the super computer system the FBI is using to help track down the MD sniper? From what I can remember it has info on everything from criminal records to PARKING TICKETS. The thing that really caught my attention though, was that they have gun purchase records of EVERYONE that has bought a .223 weapon! What do you all think of that?
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 6:04:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2002 11:06:58 PM EDT by buck_nay_kid]
Good work Imbroglio![^] I know I feel better now,what about you guys?[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 6:09:08 PM EDT
Uh. Ummm... Hello... This is the Central Scrutinizer... I am here to protect all of you from breaking all the laws that haven't been written yet... Like listening to music, and having relations with the opposite sex, and similar criminal behaviors...
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 6:09:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 6:09:30 PM EDT
so can someone use the freedom of information act to get proof of this and then sue them for violating the "no gun registry" law? fucking fedPIGS
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 6:11:05 PM EDT
The government has a database??? ON ALL OF US??? Why that cant be!!! That would be wrong. JUST PLAIN WRONG!!! I bet they have a database even on how many times I pee in a day.
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 6:13:40 PM EDT
Records under the Brady Bill have been kept all along in violation of Federal law. The "Law" does not apply to govt. agencies. This is done for your "protection" from evildoers. Please do not question govt. decisions imbro, it makes many on this board uneasy. Thank you for your attention.....
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 6:15:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2002 6:17:01 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 6:16:26 PM EDT
There was one gun dealer who destroyed all his 4473 forms and made it look like a break in. He got away with it to, but then after getting arrested in a whole militia scandal they found out. I never buy at stores, I know the 4473 is gonna be safe with the dealer, but who knows when the ATF or FBI will confinscate them.
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 6:16:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: They have no way of knowing that. I have an FFL--when the NICS are called in, we are asked whether it's a long gun, or a handgun. This is due to the age 21 requirement for handguns. As long as I have my FFL the FBI will never know who bought what caliber, etc. I do have to turn in my 4473's (yellow form) when I go out of business. I have no doubt they are keeping that information from other dealers who have gone out of business. This by no means is a list of . . .
[size=5]EVERYONE that has bought a .223 weapon![/size=5]
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Uh, what he said ^^^ Having worked for a FFL, I'm quite sure the FBI database is FAR from complete... In PA, the only guns that they can track are handguns... The PA State Police is keeping an illegal registry of ALL handgun purchases... It's just a matter of time 'till this is extended to rifles and shotguns... Of course, the ATF can come in at ANY time, and take as many 4473's as they want... I also suspect this will be the demise of gunshows, sometime down the road... Sure doesn't help any having Ed Rendell running for PA Governer... Gives me a sick feeling in my gut...
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 6:21:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: They have no way of knowing that. I have an FFL--when the NICS are called in, we are asked whether it's a long gun, or a handgun. This is due to the age 21 requirement for handguns. As long as I have my FFL the FBI will never know who bought what caliber, etc. I do have to turn in my 4473's (yellow form) when I go out of business. I have no doubt they are keeping that information from other dealers who have gone out of business. This by no means is a list of . . .
[size=5]EVERYONE that has bought a .223 weapon![/size=5]
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What you didnt get the memo beekeeper? We are suposta fax all our 4473 to the ATF for there records. Just kidding!! No the ATF/FBI does not have a list of what you bought. The dealer has the 4473 untill he/she closes shop.
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 7:26:16 PM EDT
Hey boys,what happens when the govt, makes it not worth it to sell guns for a living,ie. and gun stores go out of business with the MANY more restrictions/laws imposed as time goes by,byebye...[:(]
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 7:27:28 PM EDT
I had heard that form 4473 could be destroyed after ten years?
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 7:36:21 PM EDT
thats what private sales are for stupid. which is the real cause for the attack on gunshows.
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 7:45:07 PM EDT
Didn't one of the warehouses that were storing the turned in 4473's burn down a few years ago?
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 8:16:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Axel: I had heard that form 4473 could be destroyed after ten years?
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Only in our dreams - "I want to pretend I'm an Enron Exec and get me a hi capacity paper shredder!"
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 8:23:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: they have gun purchase records of EVERYONE that has bought a .223 weapon! What do you all think of that?
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Wishful thinking. Not "EVERYONE". Not private sales. Oh and that AR I bought at the gunstore, yeah I sold that last year at a gunshow. Yeah. The guy's name was Bob I think. Move along. Nothing to see here.
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 8:30:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: they have gun purchase records of EVERYONE that has bought a .223 weapon! What do you all think of that?
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Wishful thinking. Not "EVERYONE". Not private sales. Oh and that AR I bought at the gunstore, yeah I sold that last year at a gunshow. Yeah. The guy's name was Bob I think. Move along. Nothing to see here.
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FBI: prove you sold it. The_Macallan: prove i didn't. [:D] similar thing happened to us. it fell overboard when we were canoeing once. [;)]
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 8:42:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARLady: it fell overboard when we were canoeing once. [;)]
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Yeah yeah... me too! [:D]
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 8:48:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 9:19:38 PM EDT
The feds have a gun owner database. Let's all make stupid jokes and pretend it doesn't exist. It is my sincere hope that confiscation takes place. I will be the one cracking jokes as your prized guns are being hauled off.
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 10:09:48 PM EDT
HENRY BOWMAN WHERE ARE YOU!!!!!????????
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 10:31:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: The feds have a gun owner database. Let's all make stupid jokes and pretend it doesn't exist. It is my sincere hope that confiscation takes place. I will be the one cracking jokes as your prized guns are being hauled off.
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They'd have to really hunt hard from the satellite to find the cache tube first. [:D]
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 11:12:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: The feds have a gun owner database. Let's all make stupid jokes and pretend it doesn't exist. It is my sincere hope that confiscation takes place. I will be the one cracking jokes as your prized guns are being hauled off.
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Yep me to,I wish they would f*up the hole American way of life that will show them not to mess with you! I think you are a government spy try'n to see what we all think about the database idea anyway.[):)] Don't you have a house to set on fire or something?
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 11:50:44 PM EDT
I'm willing to bet you can chalk this up to a case of an FBI agent talking out his ass. The FBI likes to maintain this "ultimate of crime-fighting" front. From an investigatory standpoint, the FBI is a fucking joke. If you pay real close attention to major cases they take credit for solving pure dumb luck and state/local agency (meaning your friendly local cop or trooper) proficiency are what really solved the case. The FBI is REALLY good at PR that started back in the days of Hoover. In reality, they couldn't catch a cold in the middle of a Siberian winter. This "database" is being reported because it makes the majority of th sheeple feel comfortable that the omniscient FBI will catch the bad guy and make everything hunkydoory again. Of course, the more astute are fucking terrified by the thought that the FBI illegally keeps information on everyone, but believe me, people like us are a pretty smal minority.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 12:47:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Axel: I had heard that form 4473 could be destroyed after ten years?
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Actually it is 20 years.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 6:01:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: Oh and that AR I bought at the gunstore, yeah I sold that last year at a gunshow. Yeah. The guy's name was Bob I think.
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How strange! Must be the same Bob who bought mine! [:D]
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 6:08:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: They have no way of knowing that. I have an FFL--when the NICS are called in, we are asked whether it's a long gun, or a handgun.
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Don't you give the serial number as well? If so, that would tell them what the gun is.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 6:17:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: They have no way of knowing that. I have an FFL--when the NICS are called in, we are asked whether it's a long gun, or a handgun.
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Don't you give the serial number as well? If so, that would tell them what the gun is.
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No, you don't give the serial number for the NICS check. The check is against the person, not the firearm. The serial number is recorded on the 4473 and the state form (in VA). The second page of the state form is sent to the State police, but that page has the firearm info blocked out.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 6:37:29 AM EDT
The FBI could have accessed the Maryland fire arms registry records, I belive the ar15 is required to be registered in that state just like a hand gun. And then claimed to have used their own info in error. But you are right they keep information on every one, like it or not.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 9:02:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DrFrige: The government has a database??? ON ALL OF US??? Why that cant be!!! That would be wrong. JUST PLAIN WRONG!!! I bet they have a database even on how many times I pee in a day.
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I've been meaning to talk to you about that. Our records indicate that you are not consistently putting the seat up. We are also in the process of correlating our records with records of your hand-washing activities. Please make sure you are in compliance in the future.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 9:06:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 9:18:25 AM EDT
I think Imbroglio is yanking our collective chain. He's immune to the .223 records anyway since he only has a 10/22. I always get a kick out of his posts.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 9:29:49 AM EDT
Hey colt_5_5_6 I work in a shop in Maryland. The Colt H-bar is the only AR15 that is considered a sporting rifle. All others are listed as AW restricted and require you to do the MD state app and wait 7 days. Some people on this site have stated that some shops here only require the 4473 for any make heavy barrel as long as it is a post-ban. I know that we have to send the MD state police both of the pages from the state form once you pick up the firearm and sign it. What they do with them is still a mystery to us.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 9:43:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Axel: I had heard that form 4473 could be destroyed after ten years?
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4473's and acquisition and disposition records can be destroyed after 20 years, not 10. Some other records can be destroyed after 5 years. See 27CFR 178.129 for details.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 11:28:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TWIRE: I think Imbroglio is yanking our collective chain. He's immune to the .223 records anyway since he only has a 10/22. I always get a kick out of his posts.
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I was waiting for someone to note that it was Imbroglio, Grand Master of Sarcasm, who started this thread.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 11:51:47 AM EDT
This has nothing to do with sarcasm. I can't believe I am the only one that saw the report on CBS news about the computer system the FBI is using to help track down credible leads and exclude false confessions.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 11:57:40 AM EDT
Yeah, good old Bob. He's bought a bunch of guns from me too. He live just down the holler, must have one hell of a collection by now.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 12:00:51 PM EDT
yeah....bob....man he's a great guy idnt he! [:D]
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