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Posted: 10/10/2002 9:57:03 AM EDT
I'm reposting Pteri's orignal thoughts on basic counter sniper measures and am asking that anyone with any CONSTRUCTIVE comments, please post. That means no jokes, ridicule or light humor. I have friends in the DC, MD area. They are not hard core gun people and they are scared. It would be nice to have a list of good advice that all of our friends or family in such a position could benefit from. Due to the nature of the shootings, there isn't much that can be done, but I'm certain that there are things that will make a person less of a target comparitively. From Petri (aka, the flying finn) Gentlemen, I'd like to add my two cents how you can protect yourself from possible sniper fire. 1. Dress sensibly, leave your Hawaii shirts and other weird and wonderful clothes at home. Don't wear military style clothing or BDU's. Don't stick out from the crowd. Be the 'gray' man. 2. Don't stop or hang around in the open. Do zig-zags. I don't mean you have to run around like a man possessed. Just don't walk straight, predictable line. If possible walk underneath trees and other cover. If you have to stop try to get cover. Even standing in front of wall excludes one possible direction where the fire might come down. 3. If you like, wear a body armor but bear in mind that quite a few body armors are NOT capable of stopping a rifle round. Heavier ones might make you feel like a Michelin man but extra encumbrance is a low cost for your life. 4. Might sound silly but don't wear a Kevlar helmet or other protective head gear. Once again, don't stick out like a bulldogs bollocks. 5. Exit & enter your vehicle as fast as possible and if possible park it someplace that's near where you're going. Don't hang around in your car if that's not necessary. 6. Improvise, if your house door seems like a perfect place to shoot at when you're exiting. Use the back door if possible. 7. Preferably don't try to engage the shooter if fired upon unless you're 100% sure what you're shooting at and you know what's beyond. Another thing concerns your potential in the situation, pistol is useless against a target that is a good 100yds away.(everyone probably knew that already) You probably don't have the slightest idea where he might be and blatting rounds everywhere probably makes you look like a suspect by the police Don't expose yourself if you've already managed to get to a SAFE cover. Call for help! If you're about to get pinned down, exit your cover with as much speed and aggression as you can. Don't run like a looney. Have a plan where you're going to run next. . 8. Don't try to be a hero. Hero's do unpredictable things and put others in danger. Heroes are also likely to get killed first. Heroes go home in a bodybag, professionals live to tell to their grandchildren. Any comments appreciated. Regards, Petri
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 10:05:36 AM EDT
Use a full-service gas station/carwash. The shooter has hit several people either filling up or otherwise at a service station.
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 10:06:41 AM EDT
How about also: Travel with a person or group - more people means a better chance of a surviving witness and therefore presents a riskier target. Run necessary errands at night. Avoid secluded areas with rapid access to interstate trafic. Any other thoguhts would be welcome. I've been hearing from people in the MD VA area via instant messenger and can tell you these will be appreciated.
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 10:35:08 AM EDT
Favor Malls with parking garages and stay out of the strip malls this guy appears to favor?
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 5:29:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2002 5:53:42 PM EDT by 199]
Petri did a pretty good post and I would like to thank him for it. However, it dealt with generalized info (essentially, try to look like a Private, not a General!). Things here are a bit different. Petri lives in Finland, I live maybe eight miles from the last murder. I can see these differences a lot easier than he can. Below is an updated version of my 2 cents from an earlier post: Admittedly, there are no easy answers here! Assumptions can help you make decisions; they can also get you killed. 1 - Stay with other people. This coward seems to be shooting individuals who are by themselves, probably so he will have a little extra time to flee before anyone realizes what has happened. Don’t split up when outdoors, even for a minute. 2 – Avoid being out and on foot in the vicinity of an interstate on ramp. The shooter is locating himself in these areas so he can make a fast get-a-way. 3 - Stay alert to strangely parked vehicles, esp. if someone appears to be in one. To the degree possible, avoid locations where someone can park like this (realistically this is pretty hard to do, though). However, in the first shootings it appeared the shooter was firing from or next to a vehicle. It now appears he may hiding the vehicle out of sight and shooting from, say, a tree line. He’s probably also parking so that he can take off quickly, without having to back up, get stuck in traffic, etc., or maybe even from being seen from the victim’s location. 4 - If a parked or standing vehicle attracts your attention while you’re in your car, you [b]might[/b] want to drive closer to check it out before parking. With your windows rolled up and your vehicle moving, you’re a fairly tough, but certainly not invulnerable, target. 5 - When in high-risk locations, try not to be stationary for longer than necessary. Remember that a moving target is much harder to hit than a stationary one. (It is often said that the best time to shoot a moving target is when it stops moving.) The major exception to this, of course, is when you are moving directly toward or away from the shooter. Then, for all practical purposes, you are stationary vis-à-vis the shooter. When entering or exiting your vehicle, don't delay – keep moving. If you have electronic locks, hit them as you approach the vehicle and get quickly into it. If you can turn off the flashing lights that indicate the doors have just been unlocked, do so. The shooter can see this flashing also – it tells him which vehicle is yours and what you are about to do. Depending on the situation, simply leaving the doors unlocked might be OK. If you’ve got groceries, packages, etc., put them in the vehicle from the side giving you the best cover, regardless of convenience. In some situations, assuming you've got a four-door vehicle, you can open the back door simply for cover. For example, if you're getting out of the front door and feel you're too exposed, reach back and open the back door first. After you've exited the vehicle, close the front door first, then close the back door as you quickly move. 7 – Think of the pumps at a gas station as target stands with you as the target. They work very well for this shooter. The pump forces someone to park in a specific location that he can set up for beforehand. It also forces someone to get out and remain essentially stationery near their vehicle. Also, there is constant traffic, so he doesn’t have to wait long for a suitable victim and situation to develop. Look for the specific pump that gives you the most cover. Park facing the direction where the open car door will give you cover. As long as you’re out, leave the door open. NEVER gas up near an interstate on ramp (I’m kind of obsessed with this)!!! 8 - Remember that glass can greatly degrade a .223 round. This varies based on the type of glass, the angle it is hit, the distance from the glass to the victim, etc. Regardless, having glass between you and the shooter is definitely better than simply standing out in the open! Keep windows closed both when driving and at home. While you’re gassing up at the station, get back into the car with the windows up (you can check your oil later!) If you have pull down sunshades in your car, use them. 9 - Definitely have a good set of binoculars and a fully charged cell phone within arms reach in your car. Know the correct number to call if you want the locals – 911 might not get who you want. Also have paper and pencil handy. If you want to carry a firearm, fine, but it probably will be useless to you. 10 - If you carry a rifle, it must be well hidden. Otherwise the police or others may mistake you for the shooter. Keep in mind that if you pull out your rifle, some other law-abiding citizen or the police may mistakenly shoot you! 11 – Remember that gunshots can be very hard to locate since they echo off buildings, etc. Also, .223‘s make two sounds, the bang of the actual shot – which diminishes with distance - and the sonic boom of the bullet, which doesn’t. If you are far enough away, you can hear two different sounds. If you hear gunshots (and after taking cover!) you should quickly scan for all departing vehicles, even if the sound came from a different direction. If you feel brave, are in a vehicle the instant a shooting takes place, and are near an on ramp, consider quickly driving to the on ramp, parking on the shoulder, and writing down tag numbers as cars enter the ramp. Pick the on ramp that probably has the easiest access for the shooter. Alternatively, slowly get on the interstate and write down tags of cars that whiz by you (though you will pretty quickly pick up traffic already on the interstate). However, doing either of these things too obviously could get you killed! Remember, too, that if you speed away from the scene of a shooting, the police will approach you as a suspect! 12 - Soft body armor generally won’t stop a .223 at close range. At a longer range, depending on a lot of different factors, it might. Definitely wear it if you’ve got it. 13 – While there is no evidence of it, the shooter might be using a spotter. Be alert to strange acting individuals, even if they clearly don’t have a rifle. I think the existence of a spotter is pretty unlikely, though. Unfortunately, the shooter may evolve and change his patterns, so some of this may become invalid. Still, all you can do is give it your best shot. While I don’t generally fault the police for withholding information, I do wish we could get a better handle on the specific situations. I’m sure there are other patterns here that would be helpful to us. Again, just my 2 cents - FWIW. Sorry for the long post!
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 5:43:43 PM EDT
Wear Grey of Black shirts, loose fitting shirts, they make it harder to see the cross hairs and judge shot placement, why wear white or some brite color that makes you a good target.
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 5:59:21 PM EDT
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