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Posted: 10/9/2002 8:04:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2002 8:06:53 AM EDT by superdav]
first let me tell you what happened. i was pulling out of the carwash (with wet tires naturally) and they spun, they didnt squeal or smoke, when i realized they were spinning i let of the gas. (they spun maybe a foot) i stopped at the stop sign which is about 40 to 50 feet from the carwash exit. right before my right front tire came to a stop it locked up, it always does in wet grass or loose gravel, (i dont know why) when i left the intersection they may have spun slightly as most wet tires do. so i get about 3 miles down the road and i look in my mirror and see blue lights i pull over and the guy says "i stopped you for somebody else he is on his way" so i waited, by my watch 21 minutes, he finally shows up walks up to the door says the usual, registration, etc. i hand it to him and say why am i here? he says "you were spinning your tires back there" i said at the car wash? he takes one look at my drivers license and says " i m gonna have to write you a citation" i say: (very very pissed off now) for wet spinning tires at the carwash?!?!? he says: yes, you spun them twice i say : i dont recall spinning them twice i may have but i dont recall that he says: you were being disrespectful to me for spinning your tires twice in front of me i say: i didnt see you, i have no idea where you were and i accidentally spun a tire, i did not disrespect you my tires were wet, it was a car wash have you never spun a tire when it was raining or leaving a car wash? he says: you spun them twice in front of me i cant overlook that and i dont see any water on your truck. i say: (very,very,very pissed now)you're calling me a liar?! you obviously saw me pull out of the car wash so why are you calling me a liar?! i drive a truck, trucks are lightweight in the back when empty, they are prone to spin tires when wet, if i wanted the tires to spin they would have been smoking! i asked the first cop who pulled me over and asked him how long have we been sitting here in the sun after i have driven down the highway about 3 miles blowing the water off my truck and effectively DRYING it he looks down and ignores me cop says:it's been 15 minutes and i dont see no water on the undercarrige. i said: I DIDNT WASH THE FUCKING UDERCARRIGE!! I WASHED THE OUTSIDE! NOW WHY DONT YOU JUST GO RUN MY GODDAMN LICENSE AND SEE IF THERES ANYTHING ON IT!!! cop says: would you like to go with me and post bond? i say: just run the check! and i turned my head he comes back with ticket in hand and leaves what pisses me off is that he automatically decided to write me a ticket as soon as he looked at my drivers license before i ever said anything, then calls me a liar saying my truck is dry when it is obvious he knows otherwise. when i get home i realize my license has my old address on it. i recently moved here, its a small town pop. around 1200 so i guess thats why the ticket was automatic. its still bullshit. my nieghbor who was a former cop here tells me that the guy probably thought i was from out of town and wrote me the ticket. he also says that the cops have a 15 minute window for traffic stops thats why the cop insisted it had been 15 minutes when it had been longer. the day after the ticket my neighbors house burns and me and all the other nieghbors and firemen and a few cops are trying to get shit out. i'm standing at the window waiting on the fireman to hand me a load of clothes when i see that dickhead that wrote me that ticket. he's staring at me like he's either suprised i'm there or i should'nt be there. so i say: you doin all right? he ignores me and walks off. please tell me you dont treat people this way and give me some advice i'm not hiring a lawyer for a $75 fine
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:12:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By superdav: he says: you were being disrespectful to me for spinning your tires twice in front of me
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This is the part I have a problem with. So what if you were being "disrespectfull", thats not even an issue. The only issue he should care about is did you or did you not violate the vehicle code. In my state, the only sections we could cite for, based on your story are Exibition of speed, or reckless driving. Both are misdemeanor violations with a pretty heavy burdon of proof. I dont think two accidental chirps of the tire meets the elements of either crime. Although that one tire that you admit mysteriously locks up on you may meet the elements of "unsafe vehicle on the raodway".
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:15:56 AM EDT
scene of the crime taken shortly afterwards carwash exit [img]www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid35/p4f628af7214356d16d32ae1e5b85e6eb/fd2fb4fc.jpg[/img] pavement in front of stop sign(still no black marks) [img]www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid35/p6f4420eeaf140675004361c852db8ea7/fd2fb502.jpg[/img] me setting at carwash exit [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid35/p25705de9f525c6912c19ae107e8edbc8/fd2fb504.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:18:16 AM EDT
You ain't gonna like this but...
and they spun...front tire came to a stop it locked up, it always does in wet grass or loose gravel,...may have spun slightly as most wet tires
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You failed to maintain control of your vehicle AT ALL TIMES. Your car does not do anything that you do not TELL it to do. It has no mind of its own. You broke the law by failing to maintain control of your vehicle. You tried to make excuse for not maintaing control and the officer did not like being lied to. Everything you told him
"i may have but i dont recall that .... i accidentally spun a tire... my tires were wet, it was a car wash have you never spun a tire when it was raining or leaving a car wash? ...when empty, they are prone to spin tires when wet,"
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just added to the evidence that you were not maintaining control of your vehicle, you were attempting to justify yout innappropriate behavior and that you were placing the blaame upon him, rather than accepting responsibility for your own actions. Pay your fine. Told you that you weren't going to like this... TRG Ps. Former Driver's Ed Instructor, I have heard alot of the same 'excuses' for breaking the law.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:18:38 AM EDT
it only locks up on loose gravel or mud or wet grass and it locks just before the moment it stops, the only reason i mention that is maybe he heard that and thought it was spinning
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:19:54 AM EDT
Quota must be high in that town this month. Mayor must want to hire another relative.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:19:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2002 8:21:54 AM EDT by mags]
improper start.... violation #634...[;)]hehe...some cop's should'nt have gunz.[b]Go to court....Not just the first hearing either!......all the way to the judge....after the eye contact after the ticket he might not show too give you a break _now_ after the write up thats the only way he can![/b] he probabally realize's it now.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:25:24 AM EDT
i know it spun once but it hardly spun at all, didnt even squeal, i was going maybe 5 mph not hardly unsafe, not worthy of a ticket, not worthy of being called a liar! (because my truck was no longer wet i was lying?) so youre saying redgoat that you too have NEVER spun a tire in wet conditions?
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:26:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By superdav: it only locks up on loose gravel or mud or wet grass and it locks just before the moment it stops, the only reason i mention that is maybe he heard that and thought it was spinning
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Listen, "it" does not lock up. Got that? You are the driver, your actions are reflected by the behavior of the vehicle. YOU lock them up. You are: 1. Driving too fast for conditions 2. Failing to maintain control The concept of control means that you are the direct cause of every action and motion of your vehicle. If "it" slides off the road on a wet curve, you caused the action by failing to maintain control. If you keep telling yourself 'the car does this, the car does that', then you are going to get yourself and others hurt.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:28:47 AM EDT
Get your brakes checked. A single tire that just "locks up" can't be good. My ex's suburban did that and ended up with a 600$ repair job.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:29:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2002 8:55:06 AM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
Well, next time you wash your car ease up on the gas until the tires are good and dry. If you decide to go to Court, make sure that both officers show up. Don't get into your little roadside arguement, you look just as dumb or dumber than the cop in that, and he will probably explain it better than you. Cover the, accidental brief nature, of the infraction. Also ask the officer that stopped you about the driving he observed in the 3 miles he was following you................ And ease up on the gas, and brakes. Those tires spun, locked, for a reason (And I mean other than moisture)
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:38:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2002 8:39:41 AM EDT by TheRedGoat]
Originally Posted By superdav: i know it spun once but it hardly spun at all, didnt even squeal, i was going maybe 5 mph not hardly unsafe, not worthy of a ticket, not worthy of being called a liar! (because my truck was no longer wet i was lying?) so youre saying redgoat that you too have NEVER spun a tire in wet conditions?
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You did lie. You blamed the vehicle, the roadway and even the officer for your actions. You were at fault. You got caught, you failed to accept responsibility and got a ticket as your reward. As for if I have ever spun a tire, you bet I have. I was fully in control of my vehicle when I did so. On the times when I unintentionally spun my tires, I broke the law by failing to maintain control of my vehicle. The difference is that I understand that [b]I[/b] caused my tires to spin. I also never got pulled over for it. [b]If[/b] I had been pulled over the conversation would have been something like this: Officer: "I had you pulled over because you spun your tires." Me: "I am sorry about that. I had my head up my butt and forgot that my tires were wet." Officer: "You spun them twice. You were being disrespectful." Me: "No, sir, I was being an idiot. I keep forgetting that this truck is hard to control on wet tires. I will be more careful. I wasn't trying to be disrespectful." Officer: "I am going to write you a ticket." Me: "No problem, sorry about that." Officer: "I wrote you a warning, have a nice day. Be careful on wet roads"
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:39:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2002 8:46:13 AM EDT by SPECTRE]
[b]he says: you were being disrespectful to me for spinning your tires twice in front of me[/b] Sounds more like barney fife here is a dickhead, was bored and boss hog needed more tax dollars for the city coffers. [b]Officer: "I wrote you a warning, have a nice day. Be careful on wet roads"[/b] BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!!! ROTFLMAO !!!! This LEO was already "dissed" and pissed and no way in hell he was going to write a warning. He had another LEO hold the guy untill he arrived. This guy was just a dick.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:47:23 AM EDT
i dont mean to turn this into a flame but this is one of the reasons people do not trust cops. especially small town cops. some do stupid shit like this to try and make up for their inabilty to be a MAN, this guy probably weighed 300 lbs, the only reason hes a cop is because he's to fat and lazy to do anything else. he has to push people around and show off his power to make himself feel better and YES THE RIGHT SIDE STEER TIRE WILL LOCK UP RIGHT BEFORE IT STOPS(the calipers going bad i guess) IN SLIPPERY CONDITIONS NO MATTER HOW FAST OR SLOW YOU ARE GOING! listen to me red goat the cop did not know anything about my tire sliding I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT SLIDING TO HIM AND HE DID NOT SAY ANTHING, HE SAID I SPUN OUT I DID NOT MAKE AN EXCUSE, I SAID I SPUN THE TIRE, THAT IT WAS WET, THAT I WAS GOING VERY SLOW, THAT NO ONE IS ABOVE DOING THIS AND THERE IS NO NEED FOR A TICKET. I DID NOT LIE TO THE COP THE COP LIED TO ME ARE YOU LISTENING? I WAITED OVER 20 MINUTES FOR HIM! THE OTHER COP KNEW HE WAS BEING A DICKHEAD AND WOULD NOT COMMENT dont tell me you write chicken shit tickets like this! the only reason the guy wrote me a ticket is because he thought i was from out of town and i might add the ticket was for inatentive driving, a city ordinance which as you know means it's a catch all ticket and the city keeps all the money collected from the ticket none of it goes to the state so they have to report nothing. i've already gotten the lowdown from my neighbor who was a former cop here.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:51:33 AM EDT
Cop: You were being disrespectful to me, so I'll have to write you a ticket. Me: Damn, I'd hate to see what you would do if you had seen me disrespecting your wife last night.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:53:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By superdav: i dont mean to turn this into a flame but this is one of the reasons people do not trust cops. especially small town cops. some do stupid shit like this to try and make up for their inabilty to be a MAN, this guy probably weighed 300 lbs, the only reason hes a cop is because he's to fat and lazy to do anything else. he has to push people around and show off his power to make himself feel better and YES THE RIGHT SIDE STEER TIRE WILL LOCK UP RIGHT BEFORE IT STOPS(the calipers going bad i guess) IN SLIPPERY CONDITIONS NO MATTER HOW FAST OR SLOW YOU ARE GOING! listen to me red goat the cop did not know anything about my tire sliding I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT SLIDING TO HIM AND HE DID NOT SAY ANTHING, HE SAID I SPUN OUT I DID NOT MAKE AN EXCUSE, I SAID I SPUN THE TIRE, THAT IT WAS WET, THAT I WAS GOING VERY SLOW, THAT NO ONE IS ABOVE DOING THIS AND THERE IS NO NEED FOR A TICKET. I DID NOT LIE TO THE COP THE COP LIED TO ME ARE YOU LISTENING? I WAITED OVER 20 MINUTES FOR HIM! THE OTHER COP KNEW HE WAS BEING A DICKHEAD AND WOULD NOT COMMENT dont tell me you write chicken shit tickets like this! the only reason the guy wrote me a ticket is because he thought i was from out of town and i might add the ticket was for inatentive driving, a city ordinance which as you know means it's a catch all ticket and the city keeps all the money collected from the ticket none of it goes to the state so they have to report nothing. i've already gotten the lowdown from my neighbor who was a former cop here.
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Yeah, well with that little outburst, I changed my opinion of you. You should act exactly like that in Court, and don't forget, "hey bub" is the proper term to address the person wearing the black robes, who has a gavel.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:57:35 AM EDT
the guy said as soon as he looked at my license before i said anything to him: i'm going to have to write you a citation for inatentive driving without questioning me or running my tags or my license. fact: he dont give a rats ass about public safety fact: he dont give a rats ass about me you or anyone else fact: he dont give a rats ass
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:01:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2002 9:05:36 AM EDT by threefiftynone]
Just tell "His Honor" that you had "a little too much to drink" before leaving the car wash. "I swear it will never happen again"!!! Prayer For Judgement Continued....... Just don't fuck up in the next 3 years..... The Jailhouse Lawyer Edited to say "If you show some respect, you may get a break in return"... My .02
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:03:28 AM EDT
I hate it when LEOs get like that...but I suspect they have heard EVERY single line there is. OTOH...I was pulled over Saturday for running a stop sign. I actually didnt realize that I had failed to stop at the damn thing. This guy comes up behind me at full speed...lights AND SIREN.....I thought he was on his way to an emergency...lol. I pull over right away and he pulls in behind me. The guy sits in his car for at least 8-10 minutes before getting out. He comes to the window writing on his clipboard...he looks at my stickers and never says one word to me. I have my license out already and hand it to him...he finally asks me "do you know why we are here"? I answer him honestly, No I dont. He informs me that I rolled the stop sign....I am clicking my pen and getting ready to sign the ticket at this point. He stares at me for at least a minute and says "Well, do you agree or disagree with what I just said"? I smiled and told him that I honestly did not remember what I had done at the stop sign. He laughs...hands me my stuff back and says..."sir, Im gonna give ya a verbal on this one, your just too nice about the situation"! LMFAO..I was overly nice and he let me off. I am sort of an overly nice type anyway but this leads me to believe that he must get a rash of shit from his traffic stops. Although its part of his job, it must still suck.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:04:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By superdav: *Snip*
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Denial. You don't deserve the ticket because: [b]The Cop:[/b] weighed 300 lbs, he's to fat and lazy, inabilty to be a MAN, has to push people around, show off his power, he thought i was from out of town [b]The Car:[/b] RIGHT SIDE STEER TIRE WILL LOCK UP, [b]The Tire:[/b] WAS WET, they may have spun slightly as most wet tires do. (ROFL, I just looked out the window, it's raining here, and all the tires on those PARKED cars are just spinning like crazy!) [b]Other People:[/b] NO ONE IS ABOVE DOING THIS, [b]You:[/b] ... ... Read this real slow "I DID NOT MAKE AN EXCUSE, I SAID I SPUN THE TIRE, THAT IT WAS WET," Look up 'excuse' in the dictionary, I think you might not understand wha the terms means. otherwise you would not have made the above statement. "the ticket was for inatentive driving" Sounds like you need to put on a life jacket while you are swimming in The Nile.... [;)]
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:06:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By superdav: the guy said as soon as he looked at my license before i said anything to him: i'm going to have to write you a citation for inatentive driving without questioning me or running my tags or my license. fact: he dont give a rats ass about public safety fact: he dont give a rats ass about me you or anyone else fact: he dont give a rats ass
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Fact just because you haven't been ticketed in the past doesn't mean you don't deserve one for whatever you did today. Fact you were driving in such a manner that you spun the drive wheels of you vehicle not once but twice. You CLAIM it is because there was water on the tires. Weren't you the one that put the water on the tires? Shouldn't you be able to drive a truck with wet tires without breaking traction? What will be your next claim, the road was buikt extra slippery?? I gave you advise on what might help. But you want to argue with just about everyone who poseted here. Simmer down, take a breath, relax. You didn't like him, he probalby doesn't like you. SO WHAT? Get over it and stop trying to impress people with your fat jokes and wit. Because it ain't working. Now go look in the mirror, point at the guy you see in there and say "I am responsible for the manner in which I drive." Keep doing that until it sinks in. Then go to Court, tell the Judge, or Prosecutor it was inadvertant, and brief, and see if they can reduce or dismiss the citations. Of course that might depend on attitude, YOURS. A clean driving record will help.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:07:11 AM EDT
Yeah, well with that little outburst, I changed my opinion of you. You should act exactly like that in Court, and don't forget, "hey bub" is the proper term to address the person wearing the black robes, who has a gavel.
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this wouldnt piss you off?! you move to new town, they stop you for spinning tires, you dont get a chance to explain, they see you pulling out of a carwash and then say that after driving about 3 miles, setting on the side if the road in 90 degree weather for 21 minutes, "youre truck is not even wet so you must not have washed it" this would not make you mad?
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:07:59 AM EDT
He was probably being a prick...but you aren't helping your credibility any with the ranting. May I suggest you get a copy of "You and the Police" by Boston T. Party? You'll be a lot happier, and stay out of more trouble. QS
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:09:58 AM EDT
[b]superdav[/b] you're pissed cause you got a ticket for a piddly-ass violation. You're even more pissed cause the cop seemed to take it personally. Join the club ! But [b]RedGoat[/b] is right. You are at fault. You got caught. Why don't YOU be a man and stop blaming your truck, the carwash, the cop or whatever and just accept responsibility for failing to control your vehicle - twice. You said: "my right front tire came to a stop it locked up, [red]it always does in wet grass or loose gravel[/red]" So you KNOW your tire operates that way and yet you STILL don't keep control of it??? Then you said when your truck is "empty, they are prone to spin tires when wet" So AGAIN you admit to the cop that you KNOW that your car behaves that way under those conditions and yet you still try to make excuses to get out of the ticket. Go to court, plead your case, then pay your fine.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:11:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dave223: I actually didnt realize that I had failed to stop at the damn thing. I have my license out already and hand it to him he asks me "do you know why we are here"? I answer him honestly, No I dont. He informs me that I rolled the stop sign I am clicking my pen and getting ready to sign the ticket at this point. I smiled, and told him I honestly did not remember what I had done at the stop sign. He laughs... and says..."sir, Im gonna give ya a verbal on this one, your just too nice about the situation"! he must get a rash of shit from his traffic stops. Although its part of his job, it must still suck.
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And that, my friends is the way to behave at a traffic stop.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:13:27 AM EDT
Hmmmm....just a disinterested lurker here but this is what I got so far...see if y'all follow me on this: Take one immature driver with a lead foot, a real short fuse, a confrontational, in-your-face attitude, and an "It wasn't ME" mind set. Mix well with a dimwit Barney Fife LEO with a monthly quota to fill and equally poor people skills and what do we have? A pissed off citizen with a new ticket, and a county mounty with a story to tell back at the station. Tell you what son, you take that attitude into court with you and you're likely to be seeing that county mounty a lot more than you want to. I remember the time I was in arraignment court one day thirty years ago for a serious lead foot. A fella ahead of me popped off to hizzoner and BOOM...thirty days in the custody of the sheriff out on the work farm! Needless to say, I was REAL polite to that man when I went before the bar that day. Only got a fat fine...he could have tossed me in jail. I'd recommend you ease up in all things a bit. You'll live longer. Just my .02 cents. Oh...and by the way: Y'all live in a small town do you? Well...you can rest assured that all of the other cops on that force will now be watching out for your best interests real carefully now. [;D]
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:15:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By superdav:
Yeah, well with that little outburst, I changed my opinion of you. You should act exactly like that in Court, and don't forget, "hey bub" is the proper term to address the person wearing the black robes, who has a gavel.
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this wouldnt piss you off?! you move to new town, they stop you for spinning tires, you dont get a chance to explain, they see you pulling out of a carwash and then say that after driving about 3 miles, setting on the side if the road in 90 degree weather for 21 minutes, "youre truck is not even wet so you must not have washed it" this would not make you mad?
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The outburst that I was talking about was what you did here. I don't think you or the LEO were neccesarily on your "best behavior" during the stop. Take a second, take a breath. Look at the advise you have been given. Also don't get "puffed up" because you are getting taken to task for YOUR drving. The driving wasn't good. Then consider your options. If you decide to fight the ticket, leave the attitude at home. If you talk to the Judge, Prosecutor, or cop, leave your ego out of it and speak to them like you would want to be spoken to. If the ask you a question or tell you something, think about it, then calmly reply. Arguing with a cop is bad. Arguing with a Prosecutor is very bad. Don't even think about looking like you want to smart off to a Judge. They have the power to make you regret your actions.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:17:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: Now go look in the mirror, point at the guy you see in there and say "I am responsible for the manner in which I drive."
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And this too..
Originally posted by The_Macllan [b]RedGoat [/b]is right. You are at fault. You got caught.
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Keep doing that until it sinks in. ROFL TRG
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:18:15 AM EDT
Ask to have the radio dispatch transcripts of that timeframe. The first officer that pulled you over had to have called in and that time would be noted. The second officer would then call in when he arrived on scene and THAT time would be noted. Subtract the second time from the first and that will give you the response time. If it's more than the 15 window you are talking about, you might have a case.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:19:18 AM EDT
i argued with redgoat because he did not read my post correctly and jumped to a conclusion i said that the SOUND of my right steer tire might have sounded like spinning and i really dont think i spun the tire twice i admitted to spinning it once. i said I done it and I stated WHY i done it but this was all after the fact of the ticket. the ticket came first thats why i got so pissed and it is a bs ticket, inatentive driving, its a catch all, you know it, i know it, my neighbor the former cop told me so. he is not a dick like this guy. i'm not stupid everybody can read body language to certain degree cop #1 would not comment or answer my questions or even look at me. his actions appeared to insist that he thought differntly than cop#2
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:19:54 AM EDT
1.) Be Respectful at all times, do NOT ever argue with a cop. 2.) Do NOT LIE to a cop. Just admit your guilt (that his version of the events is correct) and then give him an explanation. Maybe he will accept the explanation and let you off with a warning..and maybe not. 3.) If he writes you up, remain polite, sign the ticket, and thank him. 4.) Save your arguement for the judge.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:20:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Stoney-Point: Ask to have the radio dispatch transcripts of that timeframe. The first officer that pulled you over had to have called in and that time would be noted. The second officer would then call in when he arrived on scene and THAT time would be noted. Subtract the second time from the first and that will give you the response time. If it's more than the 15 window you are talking about, you might have a case.
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Case for? Whether or not the ground was wet does NOT justify spinning his tires.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:22:13 AM EDT
The question was: "I would like to know how it is possible for police officers to harass people and get away with it? And where can you go for help, other than a civil attorney?" And the answer was: "It is not easy. In California we average one cop for every 2000 people. About 60% of those cops are on patrol, where we do most of the harassing. One-fifth of that 60% are on duty at any moment and available for harassing people. So, one on duty cop is responsible to harass about 10,000 residents. When you toss in the commercial, business, and tourist locations that attract people from other areas, sometimes you have a situation where a single cop is responsible to try to harass 20,000+ people a day. A ten hour shift runs 36,000 seconds. This gives a cop only one second to harass a person, and three-fourths of a second to eat a donut AND find a new person to harass. This is not an easy task. Most cops are not up to it day in and day out. It is just too tiring. Since you now understand why we cannot harass everyone let me explain briefly what we do to utilize some special "tools" to help us narrow down who we harass, so we can focus our limited "harassing resources" to those most worthy individuals. They are as follows: The Phone: People will call us up and point out things that cause us to focus on another person for special (concentrated) harassment. "My ex-husband just beat me and my boyfriend up and he is barricaded in the bedroom with our baby and a gun", or "My neighbor is beating up his wife and she is screaming for help" are a couple code phrases that are frequently employed. Then we come out and give special harassment to the wife beater. Another popular one on weekends is "My neighbors are out of town and their kids are having a loud party." Cars: We have special cops assigned to harass people who drive. They usually ride motorcycles so they can get around fast or cut through traffic to harass as many people as possible in their given shift. They like to harass the drivers of fast cars, cars blasting music, cars with expired registration tags, and the like. It is lots of fun when we pick them out of traffic for nothing more obvious than running a red light, going around railroad crossing arms, or driving 20+ MPH over the posted limit in a school zone. Sometimes we get to really heap the harassment on when we find they have drugs in their car, are driving drunk, are unlicensed or have an arrest warrant! Runners: Some people take off running at the mere sight of a uniformed police officer. Nothing is quite as satisfying as running after them like a trained beagle on the scent of a bunny. When we catch them, gosh darn it if there isn't always some good reason to harass them for hours! Codes: When we can think of nothing else to do, there are books that give us ideas for reasons to harass folks. They are called Codes, Penal, Vehicle, Health and Safety, Business and Professions... They each spell out all sorts of silly things for which we can really mess with people. After we study these code books, we can just drive around for a while until we find someone violating one of the listed offenses and heap on the harassment! Just last week I saw a guy smash several car windows right in front of me. Well, believe it or not, one of the code books says that is not allowed. That meant I automatically got to harass this guy...of course he didn't like it, because just when I got done harassing him, the jail deputies harassed him and that will likely continue until the judge harasses him, then he will probably be harassed by a probation officer for the next couple of years. It is a pretty cool system that we have set up, and it works very well most of the time. We seem to have a never ending supply of folks to harass, and we "get away with it" because the good citizens pay the tab for us to keep the streets safe for them...and your civil attorney. Next time you are in my town, give me a "single finger wave". That is a secret signal that you wish for me to take a closer look at you, and maybe find a reason to harass you.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:22:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97: 1.) Be Respectful at all times, do NOT ever argue with a cop. 2.) Do NOT LIE to a cop. Just admit your guilt (that his version of the events is correct) and then give him an explanation. Maybe he will accept the explanation and let you off with a warning..and maybe not. 3.) If he writes you up, remain polite, sign the ticket, and thank him. 4.) Save your arguement for the judge.
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As for #2.. if you did something, and are suffering from a terminal case of verbal diarrhea, STFU before you wind up in the clink.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:28:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:37:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
Originally Posted By Stoney-Point: Ask to have the radio dispatch transcripts of that timeframe. The first officer that pulled you over had to have called in and that time would be noted. The second officer would then call in when he arrived on scene and THAT time would be noted. Subtract the second time from the first and that will give you the response time. If it's more than the 15 window you are talking about, you might have a case.
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Case for? Whether or not the ground was wet does NOT justify spinning his tires.
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Originally stated it took 21 minutes for said LEO to appear. Window of 15 minutes for said LEO to appear. IF...If the 15 minutes is the maximum length for said LEO to arrive on scene, and he surpassed said window of opportunity, citation COULD be null and void. I'm just throwing bones here.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:38:32 AM EDT
okay yes i am short tempered, and i apologize to any of you who took offense but the fact remains stopped by cop #1 who said i dont know youll have to talk to cop#2 who (21 minutes later) says let me see your stuff, now i'm writing you a ticket without asking me anything, automatic ticket, without me opening my mouth, so when i did open my mouth it was not good, and i belive i have reason to argue, some of you suggest we should always stand down even if the other guy is wrong, that is bullshit if we feel we are right we should never stand down, so what should we do take all bullshit no matter what? we should let police or any other official when they are wrong push us around? we should not defend when we have been offended? the last time i checked it said protect and SERVE. not act like an asshole to people.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:44:35 AM EDT
TRG, no matter how fucking polite you are to a cop, when your'e in a BMW, you get the damn ticket. For years I was always polite and respectful, and got out of many tickets, while in my honda, my nissan, my jeep, all of them for speeding. Now with my BMW, I was polite for a year, and did not get out of one ticket. So now I just let them know what I think. And I ask them how they feel about being tax collectors. But at least they understand I can afford a good lawyer if needed. Some cops are worth a shit. Traffic cops are little tax collectors with a badge. It's all about the revenue. BTW, remind me to tell you the story about this british guy I was trying to teach to drive. (Family owns a drivers ed school) See ya Friday, where we can let off a little steam over some jack, my treat! TXLEWIS
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:46:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2002 9:47:42 AM EDT by superdav]
IMHO, and this is not a flame, you helped yourself get this ticket.
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some are still missing the point i got the ticket before i said anything thats what set me off, the ticket came first, bitching second and i add that i will show everybody the same respect they show me! cop or not
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:50:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By superdav: okay yes i am short tempered, and i apologize to any of you who took offense but the fact remains stopped by cop #1 who said i dont know youll have to talk to cop#2 who (21 minutes later) says let me see your stuff, now i'm writing you a ticket without asking me anything, automatic ticket, without me opening my mouth,
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There is no requirement that the officer needs to get your side before deciding whether or not to issue a citation. In order to stop you the officer shouls have witnessed, gained evidence of a CLEARLY ARTICULABLE VIOLATION. Most places would say the officer should make up his mind whether or not to issue a citation based on the violation, not the good or bad attitude of the driver.
so when i did open my mouth it was not good, and i belive i have reason to argue, some of you suggest we should always stand down even if the other guy is wrong, that is bullshit if we feel we are right we should never stand down,
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No, but there are ways to disagree without resorting to the verbal throw down. Believe me the officer has seen that before, and is ready for it. It's also a question of picking your fights. You won't generally win a street arguement with a cop. If you don't agree with the citation, argue the merits of the citation in Court in front of a neutral person that has the power to make decisions AKA "The Judge". LEO's have reps' with Judges, if it is "honest and fair", good luck. If it is "bad heavy jerk" the Judge may not be impressed just based on the officers say so. Or the Judge could have a real bad opinion of the officer's way of doing business.
so what should we do take all bullshit no matter what? we should let police or any other official when they are wrong push us around? we should not defend when we have been offended? the last time i checked it said protect and SERVE. not act like an asshole to people.
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Just because you are offended doesn't mean anything. He responded in kind to your arguements. Get over it. He let his ego get into this, and shouldn't have, and so did you. The other cop there probably thinks you were both jerks................. Serve doesn't mean subordinate to. Now lose that attitude fast. The people that live near the car wash where tire squealing happens probably WANT that behavior punished and have let the PD know that. I guess he served them.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:51:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2002 9:59:44 AM EDT by superdav]
i'm done, i've already pissed away half the day on this thanks for your input AND THE TIRE DID NOT SQUEAL!
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:53:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2002 9:55:24 AM EDT by Citabria7GCBC]
haaa haaa! you got P.O.P.ed lol p i s s e d off police. seems like you lost your cool. thats why you got the P.O.P. For those (not like me) who are not above the law, i recomeend not loosing your cool, and being as respectful as can be to the LEO. the place to argue with him is in the court room. not the street. good luck with your ticket.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:56:18 AM EDT
again you missed the point ticket came first arguing second
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 10:01:47 AM EDT
gee, losing traction is a big deal huh? better rack up those fines to protect the public. lots of victims in this "crime". I bet these sorry sons of bitches give out lots of tickets in the winter. another excuse to take more of our fucking money. what's the point of the law? to punish "unsafe driving" I'd imagine. well, is spinning your tires at FIVE miles an hour unsafe? [img]home.wi.rr.com/antigov/dunkin1.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 10:06:10 AM EDT
HMMMMM I gotta give superdav some sympathy on this one... must live in the same kinda town I do....one where they ticket you for your license plate light being out type of stuff... menawhile, EVERYONE in the town knows who the hardcore violent criminals are (although there are relatively few) and what they are doing but they rarely seem to get caught. I would be pretty hot about it too. It seems clear to me that this cop didn't care about public safety or reckless driving (from what I have read, anyway... I mean I wasn't there). I would give the SA or ASA a call and explain to them the situation and if they're a good guy annd you are REALLY nice and REALLY sorry about it, they may very well let it go. Obviously, the temper has got to go...someone said it earlier, save your argument for court. I don't think its wise to ever challenge the cops, especially in a small town because the will be all over you like, well, like stink on sh**. That goes for the courtroom and the SA or ASA or DA or whatever you have in your jurisdiction as well. As far as the 15min thing goes, I don't know about the rules where you live. I think that the SCOTUS has said something about only detaining a driver for a reasonable amount of time...essentially that needed to run a check, get info and issue citation etc. The issue has primarily come up in cases where canine units took a long time to get to the scene and drugs were found and the defendant was trying to get the evidence suppressed b/c of a violation of unreasonable search and seizure. I doubt that would help you here because you weren't being detained in order that evidence could be discovered. I always smile and wave at the local police every chance I get, even when being ticketed. I curse those lying SOBs in private when nobody can hear me.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 10:08:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC: For those (not like me) who are not above the law,...
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Care to elaborate on this section of your post, Citabria? Knowing that your dad is current or retired LEO, I'd appreciate the clarification.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 10:09:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2002 10:21:12 AM EDT by u-baddog]
Originally Posted By superdav: front tire came to a stop it locked up, it always does in wet grass or loose gravel, (i dont know why)
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If your car has GM antilock brakes, even worse if it is a certain GM product around 1993 to 1998. The chance of the wheels locking up after the first stop while the wheel sensors are wet is not uncommon. The defect happens most often in the AM with heavy dew or if the car has been driven though water and then shut down restarted and the first brake will lock the rear wheel up on certain designs. The one I now about was made for full size truck and cars.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 10:13:13 AM EDT
Dude, I've been buggered by sh!tbird cops too. You'll learn (like I did) in the field, they are always right. Don't argue, don't confront. Take it to the judge. Make your case in a thoughtful, intelligent, and respectful manner, and if you still lose, so what? It's only a few bucks. It sucks, but the traffic revenue collectors win more often than not. Chalk it up to experience and move on.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 10:21:31 AM EDT
OLY-M4gery, after readng your thread about cops and harassment, i think we may have a problem here. You see, I had an opportunity to meet with a Texas Highway Patrol trooper who was not doing his job. He was even a subject of speedtrap.com, and he let me off with a warning instead of issueing a speeding ticket. It may be that my courtesy to him threw off his game plan, but that is no excuse. He may need a refresher course.[:D]..fullclip
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 10:26:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TxLewis: TRG, no matter how fucking polite you are to a cop, when your'e in a BMW, you get the damn ticket. For years I was always polite and respectful, and got out of many tickets, while in my honda, my nissan, my jeep, all of them for speeding. Now with my BMW, I was polite for a year, and did not get out of one ticket. So now I just let them know what I think. And I ask them how they feel about being tax collectors. But at least they understand I can afford a good lawyer if needed. Some cops are worth a shit. [red]Traffic cops are little tax collectors with a badge. It's all about the revenue.[/red] BTW, remind me to tell you the story about this british guy I was trying to teach to drive. (Family owns a drivers ed school) See ya Friday, where we can let off a little steam over some jack, my treat! TXLEWIS
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I could'nt agree more.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 11:04:44 AM EDT
Spinning tires from wet start cannot reasonably be reffered to as loosing control... What were you driving???? My truck does that all the time, of course it doesn't do it by itself, that doesnt mean I'm not controlling it... I wouldn't have talked any shit to cops though, I would have stated my reasoning behind what happened, but it sounds like some cop trying to justify his job, or meet a quota, fell good about himself, etc. That's why cops are getting a bad wrap these days... As a second thought, if such a small town, could he have seen you doing something questionable before? Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti LEO....yet. I appreciate, for the most part what they do, but if you're accurate in your side of the stpry.... then this is BS, but still may have been avoided if you were not hostile toward the cop.
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