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Posted: 10/8/2002 10:51:14 AM EDT
Okay, what are some advantages and disadvantages between four wheel drive and two wheel drive? Are there really a lot of places a 4X4 can go, where a 4X2 can't with some carefull driving? like say on the beach, can a 4X2 go on the beach?
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 11:10:03 AM EDT
I've heard some say that a 4x2 with lockers is just as good as 4x4. I don't know.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 11:19:31 AM EDT
There is little that a two-wheel-drive truck can do that a four-wheel can't, provided the driver knows WTF he is doing, and there is an LSD or locker installed (I prefer limited-slip differentials, myself.) I wouldn't try crawling without 4WD, but you can go thru sand and mud if you are careful. The principal advantage to 4WD is the ability to dig in with all four wheels when pulling, or having drive power on all four wheels in case you break loose in snow, mud, or sand. I don't use 4WD much (just 4LO at the range to keep under 3mph) but it DOES come in handy when foul weather hits, or when I am pulling something heavy and just want to "walk away" with the load. Why do you ask? Thinking of a conversion, or buying a new truck? Just another note - a well-built 4WD system is not much more difficult to maintain than a 2WD setup - just have to change the fluids in the tcase and front axle when you do the rear, and don't forget to lube the front driveshafts... FFZ
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 11:26:49 AM EDT
yes, I am considering it. I own a 2000 chey silverado 4X2. it's a great truck. but I would like to do some off roading.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 11:28:07 AM EDT
Been driving 4X4s since 1974. 99.9% of the time I have not needed it, BUT, when you do need it, it's there. In the areas where you get snow, even once or twice a year, it's a must. In the Dallas area where we get mostly ice, its nice to have. I drive on construction sites every day. Sometimes it's muddy, sometimes you get deep ruts or deep sand, so it is an absolute must have for me. About driving 2 wheel on the beach. Down at S. Podre, if you stay close to the waters edge your ok but if you get up by the dunes your screwed. I have pulled a lot of stuck folks out down there. Some misconceptions about 4 wheel drive. "you can't get them stuck" Bullshit. When you get stuck, brother you are stuck. "you can go anywhere" Saw a CJ7 roll 40' down the backside of a dam of a farm pond. People driving on ice tend to forget that "OH SHIT!! I can't stop!! Pesonally, I would never be with out it.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 11:28:13 AM EDT
4x4's offer a lot better traction, but 2wd's can go more places than you'd think. The only real advantage to a 2wd is slightly better fuel economy, lower weight, and possibly a softer ride. As for a 2wd on the beach, don't pick a really aggressive tire, keep the pressures low, go easy on the throttle, and keep your momentum up. If you have to stop with one in sand, stop on a downslope or on a firm spot you can get going again. My best advice: Take your 2wd and a buddy with a 4wd and see just how much you can do before you get stuck. This way you'll have an idea of your trucks limits when nobody is there to help you get unstuck. My $.02
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 11:34:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Glock31: 4x4's offer a lot better traction, but 2wd's can go more places than you'd think. The only real advantage to a 2wd is slightly better fuel economy, lower weight, and possibly a softer ride. As for a 2wd on the beach, don't pick a really aggressive tire, keep the pressures low, go easy on the throttle, and keep your momentum up. If you have to stop with one in sand, stop on a downslope or on a firm spot you can get going again. My best advice: Take your 2wd and a buddy with a 4wd and see just how much you can do before you get stuck. This way you'll have an idea of your trucks limits when nobody is there to help you get unstuck. My $.02
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This is very good advice. Having a locker on the rear axle will also help. 4wd's also offer significant advantages with more gears to choose from in a manual transmission. It is possible to start a 4wd in 1st gear, low range without depressing the clutch. 4wd's usually also have better ground clearance and better protection underneath, since it is assumed they will see worse terrain. I once heard a saying that I have always remembered about this. [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/biggrin2.gif[/img] "Four wheel drive is good for fifty more feet before you get stuck!"
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 11:40:08 AM EDT
4x4 Pros= Excellent traction under almost any curcumstanses. Trucks that come with 4x4 usually have better off-road packages. Can be raised with ease usually. 4x4 Cons= Heavier truck. Worse gas mileage. less power to the wheels. Connot be lowered. Transfer case and extra axle to maintian. In saying this I'm enojoying my first 4x4 I've owned. I won't be caught without one anymore, even though my fwd car deos quite well slippery conditions.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 11:45:50 AM EDT
"Cannot be lowered?" Son, where do you live? I see lowered 4WD dually longbed crewcabs around here all the time! I still don't get the point - isn't a truck useless when it's only an inch off the ground? Having said that, it is actually EASIER to lift a common 2WD pickup - there is only one axle and one driveshaft to worry about keeping correct angles on! Also, the "power to the wheels" is the same - the only difference is the presence of a 4LO on a good 4WD - the engine doesn't make any more power, it's just split differently. Transfer case and extra axle to maintain? If you can keep your transmission and rear axle up, you know everything you need to. Don't forget to grease the U-joints right behind the front wheels... Lower mileage? My 88 Cherokee (4.0/4WD) still gets 20/22 for mileage - that's why I haven't replaced it (and probably won't!) Heavier truck? Only by about 400# unsprung weight. It's not like there are ballast plates welded to the belly pan... All in all, I am happy to have 4WD - even if I don't use it very often! FFZ
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 12:02:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By blackrifle51: Okay, what are some advantages and disadvantages between four wheel drive and two wheel drive? Are there really a lot of places a 4X4 can go, where a 4X2 can't with some carefull driving? like say on the beach, can a 4X2 go on the beach?
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Mud!
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 12:10:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FreeFireZone: "Cannot be lowered?" Son, where do you live? I see lowered 4WD dually longbed crewcabs around here all the time! I still don't get the point - isn't a truck useless when it's only an inch off the ground? Having said that, it is actually EASIER to lift a common 2WD pickup - there is only one axle and one driveshaft to worry about keeping correct angles on! Also, the "power to the wheels" is the same - the only difference is the presence of a 4LO on a good 4WD - the engine doesn't make any more power, it's just split differently. Transfer case and extra axle to maintain? If you can keep your transmission and rear axle up, you know everything you need to. Don't forget to grease the U-joints right behind the front wheels... Lower mileage? My 88 Cherokee (4.0/4WD) still gets 20/22 for mileage - that's why I haven't replaced it (and probably won't!) Heavier truck? Only by about 400# unsprung weight. It's not like there are ballast plates welded to the belly pan... All in all, I am happy to have 4WD - even if I don't use it very often! FFZ
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Sorry, I meant to say is it cannot be lowered with ease. When I say ease, I mean with airbags and what not. I have a couple of buddies in a truck club and 4x4 trucks cannot be lowered with ease, if you do see one lowered, it's not really that low. No, power to the wheels isn't the same, it still spins the transfer case and the front axles, it only locks the wheels in the front in when you engage 4 wheel drive so in turn you lose HP thorugh the drivetrain and that's why you'll usually see a 2 to 3 mpg difference compaired to a 4x2. Yes, it's more to maintain due to an extra axle and a transfer case. Why am a repeting myself here? Why are you arguing with my points you weirdo? All my points are valid points, reguardless on how minute you "feel" the cons are, they are still cons. Good day, go pick a fight with someone who cares.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 12:10:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By blackrifle51: Are there really a lot of places a 4X4 can go, where a 4X2 can't with some carefull driving?
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The lower (right)parking lot at Knob Creek after a good rain [%|] Well, you can get in, but you can't get back out [BD] In fact, I've seen a lot of 4X4 dualies with those street tires get stuck in there too.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 12:36:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By blackrifle51: Are there really a lot of places a 4X4 can go, where a 4X2 can't with some carefull driving?
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The lower (right)parking lot at Knob Creek after a good rain [%|] Well, you can get in, but you can't get back out [BD] In fact, I've seen a lot of 4X4 dualies with those street tires get stuck in there too.
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I am currently driving a 2002 4X4 Dodge extened cab dually. POS in the mud and ice. Any dually will hydro-plane quicker on wet raods. Too much rubber on the ground. If I could pick any truck I wanted, it would be a F-250 4X4, 4 door, short bed with the power stroke diesel and automatic tranny. One thing no one has mentioned about the differance between 2 wheel and 4 wheel drive. Take any 4X4 with a lift kit and big ol wheels and tires, old truck, new truck, fancy paint or just grey primer ---- The just look BAD ASS!!!
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 3:08:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2002 3:09:36 PM EDT by LgAnimalVet]
I prefer 2 wheel drives for chasing coyotes, front axles snap real easily! Basically you can get a 2 wheel drive to go about anywhere you can get a 4 wheel drive you just have to go faster and hit whatever it is harder.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 3:18:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LgAnimalVet: I prefer 2 wheel drives for chasing coyotes, front axles snap real easily! Basically you can get a 2 wheel drive to go about anywhere you can get a 4 wheel drive you just have to go faster and hit whatever it is harder.
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Never heard it put that way but you got a good point! [;)]
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 3:22:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 3:29:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brouhaha:
Originally Posted By MillerSHO: 4x4 Cons= Connot be lowered.
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Not always true. Just the other day, I saw a Dodge Ram 4x4 that may as well have been dragging the ground. Why the moron paid an extra $2k for a useless 4x4, I'll never know...
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I have seen a lot of 4X4 dodges, 1/2 tons to duallys running around the Metroplex dragging the ground. Most have some kind of gothic writing in the back window. Don't know whats up with that.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 3:37:25 PM EDT
I wouldn't say 4x2 will go everywhere a 4x4 will,but I owned a 4x2 Ranger(back when the full size, 1/2 ton was a ranger)with a 300ci,straight six(pretty torquey)mud tires,posi and a compound low,granny tranny.Other than mechanically ,this truck was a beater and wasn't lifted. That thing would crawl over some obstacles that would surprise you. I also pulled a couple vehicles outta ditch type situatuations and was shocked that I could just put it in low and walk em out(on gravel). So its not like a 4x2 is incapable. They also have those pre runner type setups(4x2)with the extreme travel,that blast around dunes and desert roads.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 3:38:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 3:45:45 PM EDT
my ex's grandfather was a farmer out of AZ, and he SWORE by 2x4 pick-ups. he said, and i quote exactly: "Four wheel drive will just git ya stucker!" ... i swear to God, he said that at the dinner table! anyway, after pulling countless 2x4 trucks out of mud, sand, snow and even dry-dirt with my Jeep, it has become clear that a good 4x4 will simply out-perform every time. plan on towing? use a 4x4. plan on off-roading (even light-duty applications)? use a 4x4. IMHO, you would not use a trim-hammer to frame a cabin. it would work, but there is a MUCH better way.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 3:47:06 PM EDT
I'll agree with that aimless,any rear wheel drive vehicle thats light in the ass end is a freaky proposition in the snow.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 3:49:43 PM EDT
Well I use mine at least once a month. No I dont heavly four wheel or anything just every day activitys. I also use fairly agressive tires. I use it crossing ditches going across peoples lawns when nessasary. By the way going across some ones lawn when wet in 2WD on and sort of slope is asking to tear the shit out of it. When I feed cows I use it so I dont tear up fields. when going down gravel roads it allows me to keep a contant speed up hill down hill without riding the breaks or monitering the gas. On the pass in winter its nice to have... Ill list a Note On 4x4s I see often... 4WD IS NOT a substatute for chains! you would not belive the 4x4s ive seenin the ditch in the winter up on the passes peeople think well Ive got 4WD so I can bi-pass the chain up area by flipping the switch On my neat-o SUV 4WD. Chains ad 4WD helps alot in snow Ice Conditions... It helps maintain traction up front where most of the weight is. If driven 2 WD ocer the pass and I get a feeling that the front end is going to slide down hill sometimes Not a good feeling. Ill keep my $WD thanks.. as a side note if you live in the desert a 2WD may be better if you plan to really off road (baja) You can hit harder and jump higher with a 2wd and a good suspension setup
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 5:17:29 PM EDT
To those that say 4x2 with a posi, will go offroad nearly as well as 4x4, obviously have never been offroad...(no offense intended) I've owned umpteen trucks over the years, and will never be without a 4x4 again... I've driven a 4x2 through 26" of snow already, and had snow packed in the radiator... Only reason I didn't get stuck was, I had 1000lbs of sand in the bed, didn't slow down or stop, and had brand new aggressive snow tires... I now own a '94 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban... It has a 454 in it, gets lousey gas mileage, weighs 6800lbs(empty), has a locker rear, and will literally go anywhere... I've climbed wet grassy hills, and loose rock already, at nearly a 45 degree angle... A few weeks ago, my brother had his 2000 4x4 Expedition stuck in his yard... He was on a steep hill, and sunk in mud up to the running boards...(dumbass that he is) The Expedition had small "street" tires on it... It took my heavy Suburban (with oversize tires) and 20ft of chain to pull him out... Never could have done it with a 2wd... There is absolutely NO WAY a 2wd will go the same place a 4x4 will...NO WAY.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 5:22:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 5:46:25 PM EDT
"Pick a fight?" If I had intended to pick a fight with you, I would have been obvious about it. I simply wanted to expose the other side of your points for consideration... I may not have as many posts as you, MillerSHO, but that is only because I don't chime into absolutely everything that is going on around here. Unlike many, I try to speak only when I have something useful to say... FFZ
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 6:57:47 PM EDT
The only reason someone may believe that a 4*2 is as capable off road, is that drivers of 4*2s off road are normally VERY concerned about getting stuck, and thus do everything to avoid that condition. 4*4 owners are much less concerned, and can get themselves in trouble by simply being less observant. Given the same track, there is no way a 4*2 can approach the same performance. My only experience with off road driving is with the deep sand of the Outer Banks of NC. I would test how far I could go without shifting to 4, and it was rather impressive when I had a good head of steam, but miserable without a headsteart. A 4*2 could cross occasional deep sand, but if all there was was deep sand for miles, it'd have no hope. Everyone I've seen try it with a 2wd, has failed miserably.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 12:44:10 AM EDT
when off roading drive in 4x2, when you get stuck put it in 4x4 get out and go home.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 6:29:19 AM EDT
If snowy winter driving is in your future (not likely in most areas of Tx) 4WD is much handier than 2WD (rear wheel), especially on pickups that don't have a lot of weight on the rear wheels.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 7:06:54 AM EDT
My first 4wd was a Toyota Land Cruiser (99), and it was 4wd all the time. That actually sucked on ice and snow sometimes because it could cause all four wheels to lose traction at once leaving you with NO control whatsoever. One of my ex-wife's friends drove one identical to ours and did (literally) a 900+/- deg. spin down an ice covered hill in her neighborhood. The only reason she stayed on the road was the fact that they had concrete curb and gutters. I also had some interesting experiences in my L.C. but fortunately most of those were intentional. I've been driving a Tundra for over a year now and have only used the 4wd a few times. I LOVE having the 2wd/4wd/4lo options. You get all the fun of a light-assed 2wd with the option of 4wd when it gets messy. In other words, 4wd is DEFINITELY worth the extra $.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 1:43:48 AM EDT
My first truck was an '83 Ford F-150 with the straight six and 2WD. I could get it to go almost anywhere, but had to be really careful on jeep trails, and mud was completely off limits unless I was moving fast upon entry. It had lockers, and let me tell you, it was a bitch and a half to drive if the road was a little slick. In snow I'd take my front-wheel-drive Celica because the Ford just scared the shit out of me. Even on rain-slicked roads it took concentration to control. Another thing about lockers is that they'll give you one shitty ride, anytime you turn the truck starts to jerk. Also, just from personal experience, locked rear ends tend to make driving a manual harder (it was my first manual though). I now drive a '97 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4. It can do things that I'd never think of attempting in the old Ford. Bald Mountain Jeep Trail, and the Fort Dickerson Jeep Trail that overlooks Sugar Grove, WV are much easier to drive when I have the comfort of 4x4. I could get up them in my old Ford, and normally only use 2WD on my Ranger, but the boulders on those trails sometimes required multiple tries in my old Ford. Nothing suck worse than reversing down a jeep trail 2 miles because you just can't get past one spot. A friend of mine owns a hunting cabin near Bubbling Springs. The quickest way to get there is by fording the Cowpasture River just off route 42, and taking a CSX frontage road. The river is only about a foot deep or so, but at the ford it is moving pretty fast. I actually got pushed off the ford and a little down-river in my old Ford because the front wheels started to float and there was no way to bring them back down, so my front-end changed direction on my and gave me a pretty wild ride until I washed up on a pebble bar and could drive out. 4x4 can keep you from floating. Everytime you start to feel the truck move laterally, you floor it and the tires come back down. The muddy-as-Hell CSX access road was a 2WD trap too. I've got stuck on it a number of times before I decided it was worth the risk to just drive on the tracks 'til I got to my friend's driveway (read: narrow, muddy, uphill, double rut). In 4x4 it isn't a problem. A 2WD is NOT as capable as a 4x4. Anybody who tells you otherwise just doesn't do much offroading. If you don't intend on driving on really nasty trails, through deep mud, or drifting sand, a 2WD is probably a better buy.
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