Does Gunsite still teach birdshot for home defense? - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Does Gunsite still teach birdshot for home defense? (Page 2 of 9)

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:16:27 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.

I've never had anyone volunteer to let me hit them in the face with my toaster as hard as I can. That doesn't mean I grab a toaster instead of a gun if someone breaks in.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:16:45 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Its not the conclusion I drew I said a load of bird shot will kill you dead and it will . If you are so dumb that you want to compare a BB gun to a firearm then you are an idiot.

Yes, a load of bird shot can "kill you dead". The potential certainly is there.

Like I said before you have 0 proof that your theory is correct . House distance is less than 20 feet At that range a load of 7 shot will do you in. Your chances of surviving are negligible , So quit saying stupid things . We are not talking about someone being shot at 25 yards with a load of 7 or 8 shot.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:17:17 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:

In before Old_Painless' head spins off.

Too late.

"Might" birdshot work? Sure. But 00 buck or #1 buck will work much, much better and more consistently.

If someone is trying to kill me or my family, I don't want "might work". I want the Best of the Best. That is buckshot.

Have you found 000 to not be an improvement over 00?

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:17:57 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Not an apples to apples comparison if you are not intelligent enough to understand the difference then you have a problem. A 12 gauge will end up doing damage you do not recover from. Tell me the same of the airsoft. Always a bunch of idiots who make silly comparisons here.

I've been shot with birdshot. At the same distance anything from buckshot to any rifle or pistol round would have severely injured me. Birdshot is horrible for shooting people.

Well you were not shot by the right person. Where and when were you in a house ? a hallway ? what were you doing please go on with your drunk quail hunting tale.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:18:43 AM EDT

[#5]

Please tell me Col. Cooper never approved of these shenanigans.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:18:55 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
...and dual wielding pocket pistols?

Searching for video, but I've seen Ed Head suggest that carrying two .380s and using one in each hand was a viable self defense plan. The man knows a LOT more than me, but still.

I wonder about this. The "using one in each hand" thing is obviously ridiculous, but the New York reload (i.e. the fastest reload is a second gun) seems like sound advice, since even the very best guns can fuck up at times.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:19:54 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Its not the conclusion I drew I said a load of bird shot will kill you dead and it will . If you are so dumb that you want to compare a BB gun to a firearm then you are an idiot.

Yes, a load of bird shot can "kill you dead". The potential certainly is there.

Like I said before you have 0 proof that your theory is correct . House distance is less than 20 feet At that range a load of 7 shot will do you in. Your chances of surviving are negligible , So quit saying stupid things . We are not talking about someone being shot at 25 yards with a load of 7 or 8 shot.

If you put down the gun mags and spent some time doing some real research on this, you would be very surprised.

Honestly, at this point I think you're trolling. If you aren't, well, have fun with your birdshot.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:20:07 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Like I said before you have 0 proof that your theory is correct . House distance is less than 20 feet At that range a load of 7 shot will do you in. Your chances of surviving are negligible , So quit saying stupid things . We are not talking about someone being shot at 25 yards with a load of 7 or 8 shot.

Make sure you understand, no one is saying, "Birdshot can't hurt or kill you". We KNOW that it "can".

But there are many examples of bad guys wearing heavy clothing and being hit with small birdshot and not being stopped at all. Birdshot is not "reliable" for Stopping any and all threats.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:20:29 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have faith that birdshot will be adequate.

No facts or evidence will ever change my mind.

They all fall to hardball.

45 has twice the knock down power of 9mm.

What unit of measure is knock down power measured in?

Asskicks/s

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:21:09 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.

Stupid argument. Many people have been killed by many different calibers, methods, objects, etc. You wouldn't want to be slammed in the face with a mallet right? I guess that makes it great for home defense.

Volunteer to let me shoot you with an airsoft rifle to the eyeball at close range. Oh, you don't want me to? Great home defense weapon.

That does seem to be a difficult concept to understand doesn't it.

Not an apples to apples comparison if you are not intelligent enough to understand the difference then you have a problem. A 12 gauge will end up doing damage you do not recover from. Tell me the same of the airsoft. Always a bunch of idiots who make silly comparisons here.

Like I said, difficult concept.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:21:24 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
In before Old_Painless' head spins off.

Too late.

"Might" birdshot work? Sure. But 00 buck or #1 buck will work much, much better and more consistently.

If someone is trying to kill me or my family, I don't want "might work". I want the Best of the Best. That is buckshot.

Have you found 000 to not be an improvement over 00?

No sir, it is not.

Read more here: Shotgun Ammunition FAQs

So it's because of less frontal trauma area due to less pellets? Seems to make sense.

Yep, that's basically it.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:29:56 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Not an apples to apples comparison if you are not intelligent enough to understand the difference then you have a problem. A 12 gauge will end up doing damage you do not recover from. Tell me the same of the airsoft. Always a bunch of idiots who make silly comparisons here.

I've been shot with birdshot. At the same distance anything from buckshot to any rifle or pistol round would have severely injured me. Birdshot is horrible for shooting people.

Well you were not shot by the right person. Where and when were you in a house ? a hallway ? what were you doing please go on with your drunk quail hunting tale.

Holy shit Sharpshooter you need to calm down, especially because you are wrong. Have you ever shot an animal with birdshot? I hunt quail, duck and dove and most of the time the birds aren't fully penetrated by the pellets. Can birdshot kill you? Sure. Can a 22LR kill you, absolutely. But neither of those are ideal choices when it comes to self defense against people. Look at some gel tests, or Old Painless' Box O Truth forums for real world testing... bird shot does not have the inertia to reliably penetrate deep enough to reach the vital organs. This has been proven time and time again and is actually common sense and easily ascertained if you shoot anything besides paper.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:31:36 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.

Better scenario is: someone gives you the choice of being shot with either #7 or 00 buck. Which would you choose?

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:31:46 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Its not the conclusion I drew I said a load of bird shot will kill you dead and it will . If you are so dumb that you want to compare a BB gun to a firearm then you are an idiot.

Yes, a load of bird shot can "kill you dead". The potential certainly is there.

Like I said before you have 0 proof that your theory is correct . House distance is less than 20 feet At that range a load of 7 shot will do you in. Your chances of surviving are negligible , So quit saying stupid things . We are not talking about someone being shot at 25 yards with a load of 7 or 8 shot.

Have you shot a bird with 7 shot? Did the pellets zoom through the bird and out the other side?

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:33:05 AM EDT

[#23]

I had a friend that took Gunsite's shotgun class about two years ago and he said they do suggest #8 birdshot. Or at least the instructor he had did. Don't remember who he said the instructor was but I did recognize the name.

I tried to straighten him out but he believes whatever Gunsite says is gospel.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:34:50 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I think it was thedoctors308 that said "If you load your gun with birdshot and expect it to work on people, well you probably still have your mittens pinned to your jacket."

Good one Deej.

TD308 sure had a way with words

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:36:13 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.

Congrats on the dumbest fucking post of the day.

Of course birdshot will fuck you up. A BB from a Daisy could fuck you up if the shot placement was just right.

But how well does birdshot STOP THE THREAT compared to 00 or 000?

Surely you are not comparing a fucking red rider and a 12 gauge? Dont be a tool . There is always at least one dumbass who says dumb post but no one yet has wanted to take a load from a 12 gauge. SO until someone does STFU.

I took one in the leg. And it did hurt but nothing incapacitating.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:36:58 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.

Congrats on the dumbest fucking post of the day.

Of course birdshot will fuck you up. A BB from a Daisy could fuck you up if the shot placement was just right.

But how well does birdshot STOP THE THREAT compared to 00 or 000?

Surely you are not comparing a fucking red rider and a 12 gauge? Dont be a tool . There is always at least one dumbass who says dumb post but no one yet has wanted to take a load from a 12 gauge. SO until someone does STFU.

Surely you can't be this stupid. I think I've heard more intelligent discourse from a sack of doorknobs.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:38:06 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Not an apples to apples comparison if you are not intelligent enough to understand the difference then you have a problem. A 12 gauge will end up doing damage you do not recover from. Tell me the same of the airsoft. Always a bunch of idiots who make silly comparisons here.

I've been shot with birdshot. At the same distance anything from buckshot to any rifle or pistol round would have severely injured me. Birdshot is horrible for shooting people.

Well you were not shot by the right person. Where and when were you in a house ? a hallway ? what were you doing please go on with your drunk quail hunting tale.

Holy shit Sharpshooter you need to calm down, especially because you are wrong. Have you ever shot an animal with birdshot? I hunt quail, duck and dove and most of the time the birds aren't fully penetrated by the pellets. Can birdshot kill you? Sure. Can a 22LR kill you, absolutely. But neither of those are ideal choices when it comes to self defense against people. Look at some gel tests, or Old Painless' Box O Truth forums for real world testing... bird shot does not have the inertia to reliably penetrate deep enough to reach the vital organs. This has been proven time and time again and is actually common sense and easily ascertained if you shoot anything besides paper.

I am not upset, I want to know what he was doing. Its a legitimate question . and I have in fact been hunting all my life. However you CANNOT compare how birdshot reacts shooting at a quail where it has spread from the wad at distance to a load that will not have fully expanded from the wadding in house. All of these things matter. Would you say so ? I know someone who was shot during turkey season with a duplex load who lived. He however was not shot at 15 feet. I hope you get my point.

I also know someone who went to prison 30 years ago for shooting someone and killing them in his front yard with a load of birdshot. The distance was considerably shorter than a hunting distance shot.

To make the supposition that I am wrong is absurd. I did not say I would choose birdshot for all situations but I assure you if you are shot with it at close range your chances of walking away are pretty slim.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:39:10 AM EDT

[#28]

I've been there several times (2002-2007) and never heard anything like what is being atributed.

I suspect the statements cited above come with alot of context and are being taken out of it.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:39:27 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Its not the conclusion I drew I said a load of bird shot will kill you dead and it will . If you are so dumb that you want to compare a BB gun to a firearm then you are an idiot.

Yes, a load of bird shot can "kill you dead". The potential certainly is there.

Like I said before you have 0 proof that your theory is correct . House distance is less than 20 feet At that range a load of 7 shot will do you in. Your chances of surviving are negligible , So quit saying stupid things . We are not talking about someone being shot at 25 yards with a load of 7 or 8 shot.

Have you shot a bird with 7 shot? Did the pellets zoom through the bird and out the other side?

You cannot compare shooting a quail to using it in a house that is the point. Its not the same thing. You should be smart enough to understand that

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:40:26 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.

Congrats on the dumbest fucking post of the day.

Of course birdshot will fuck you up. A BB from a Daisy could fuck you up if the shot placement was just right.
I
But how well does birdshot STOP THE THREAT compared to 00 or 000?

Surely you are not comparing a fucking red rider and a 12 gauge? Dont be a tool . There is always at least one dumbass who says dumb post but no one yet has wanted to take a load from a 12 gauge. SO until someone does STFU.

I don't want to get kicked in the nuts by my 5 year old cousin. That doesn't mean I would use him as a weapon to stop a home invader.

You know why they call it birdshot? Cause its for birds. You ever seen a bird? Did you notice their petite frame and fragile little bird bones?

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:41:58 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Have you shot a bird with 7 shot? Did the pellets zoom through the bird and out the other side?

You cannot compare shooting a quail to using it in a house that is the point. Its not the same thing. You should be smart enough to understand that

At 20 feet you are lucky to get 9 inches of penetration out of #7 in bare ballistics gel.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:42:11 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
I have faith that birdshot will be adequate.

No facts or evidence will ever change my mind.

lulz. Oh, you...

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:42:19 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
*snip*
I've never had anyone volunteer to let me hit them in the face with my toaster as hard as I can. That doesn't mean I grab a toaster instead of a gun if someone breaks in.

My toaster oven has more stopping power than your toaster.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:43:56 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:

*snip*

I've never had anyone volunteer to let me hit them in the face with my toaster as hard as I can. That doesn't mean I grab a toaster instead of a gun if someone breaks in.

My toaster oven has more stopping power than your toaster.

High capacity assault toaster?

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:44:31 AM EDT

[#35]

I have seen it as recently as last year

ETA: to clarify I mean I have seen them advocating this recently

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:44:57 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
I believe that was the show touting the reliability of Hi-point pistols.

I have never heard of a hipoint being unreliable

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:44:59 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
im watching some old seasons of PDTV and they are shooting shotguns at Gunsite. Advocating birdshot for HD.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff93/stratocaster81/Gifs/AHHHH.gif

what is that from ?

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:45:43 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
In before Old_Painless' head spins off.

Funny, that was my first thought too

I felt a disturbance in the force, and I think it was O_P flipping his desk over in outrage.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:46:06 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:

*snip*

I've never had anyone volunteer to let me hit them in the face with my toaster as hard as I can. That doesn't mean I grab a toaster instead of a gun if someone breaks in.

My toaster oven has more stopping power than your toaster.

High capacity assault toaster?

http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/public/z0yd2xSNM8-_uL2psVYQ_bcSWu1Xyb-J-tVFsinPPPH8DUV7IIPe8dRkdPPTH4-QgB6r-tJrX15arA1VZ05Stuqs38crNeJvzmidaCMBMPYnrhaeylONU9y5cuT3ROGkOjHFpeJq0iSb2gcpm2WmKBTXBk4NJnvSvAcLYVB9moCSdxfnAoN79ZfvekXXRakQC7432zZQKIjj-JFn_sUOyaaN53mQH0p7D8rb6CL65uhFIatCnmEUZa9lOaaLfHvPOcqBohqsBZYw3ch6t4O2_olloWvrliMxyDnd=s120-c

Four slots allowed in NY

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:46:24 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Since I'm in on this early, is there any literature on this?

I took my 12 gauge out to a friends range and tried to get an idea of the maximum effectiveness of bird shot since over penetration is a concern for where I live.
I shot some particle board and dry wall at 10 and 15 feet to see and from my novice uninformed view it looked effective.

15 feet and in were sizable holes in the drywall and particle board, I don't see someone brushing that off after 2-3 of those inside of 15 feet.

But then again I have this horrible habit of remaining open minded and admitting that I don't know everything..

Are you being attacked by particle board or drywall? Shoot ballistics gelatin or a side of beef

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:46:35 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Its not the conclusion I drew I said a load of bird shot will kill you dead and it will . If you are so dumb that you want to compare a BB gun to a firearm then you are an idiot.

Yes, a load of bird shot can "kill you dead". The potential certainly is there.

Like I said before you have 0 proof that your theory is correct . House distance is less than 20 feet At that range a load of 7 shot will do you in. Your chances of surviving are negligible , So quit saying stupid things . We are not talking about someone being shot at 25 yards with a load of 7 or 8 shot.

How about my proof? I worked a home invasion one time where a guy tool a load of birdshot in the hand, neck, face from about 18 feet. He turned around, ran out the front door, got into a car with his buddy and left the scene.

He wasn't happy when we found him, but it sure didnt "do him in".

You don't know what you are talking about

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:47:54 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Its not the conclusion I drew I said a load of bird shot will kill you dead and it will . If you are so dumb that you want to compare a BB gun to a firearm then you are an idiot.

Yes, a load of bird shot can "kill you dead". The potential certainly is there.

Like I said before you have 0 proof that your theory is correct . House distance is less than 20 feet At that range a load of 7 shot will do you in. Your chances of surviving are negligible , So quit saying stupid things . We are not talking about someone being shot at 25 yards with a load of 7 or 8 shot.

How about my proof? I worked a home invasion one time where a guy tool a load of birdshot in the hand, neck, face from about 18 feet. He turned around, ran out the front door, got into a car with his buddy and left the scene.

He wasn't happy when we found him, but it sure didnt "do him in".

You don't know what you are talking about

Obviously it worked for home defense did it not? I guess I do know what I am talking about. ETA I personally witnessed someone live after being shot with a 5.56 would you say that means it is not a good choice ?

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:48:27 AM EDT

[#43]

Wow the stupid is amazing.

Ill go first.. With OO buck. You go next with #7 birdshot.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:49:20 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Its not the conclusion I drew I said a load of bird shot will kill you dead and it will . If you are so dumb that you want to compare a BB gun to a firearm then you are an idiot.

Yes, a load of bird shot can "kill you dead". The potential certainly is there.

Like I said before you have 0 proof that your theory is correct . House distance is less than 20 feet At that range a load of 7 shot will do you in. Your chances of surviving are negligible , So quit saying stupid things . We are not talking about someone being shot at 25 yards with a load of 7 or 8 shot.

How about my proof? I worked a home invasion one time where a guy tool a load of birdshot in the hand, neck, face from about 18 feet. He turned around, ran out the front door, got into a car with his buddy and left the scene.

He wasn't happy when we found him, but it sure didnt "do him in".

You don't know what you are talking about

To be fair it "can" and has "potential" to kill as the other posters said. I want something that "probably will". 00 buck

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:49:53 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Since I'm in on this early, is there any literature on this?

I took my 12 gauge out to a friends range and tried to get an idea of the maximum effectiveness of bird shot since over penetration is a concern for where I live.
I shot some particle board and dry wall at 10 and 15 feet to see and from my novice uninformed view it looked effective.

15 feet and in were sizable holes in the drywall and particle board, I don't see someone brushing that off after 2-3 of those inside of 15 feet.

But then again I have this horrible habit of remaining open minded and admitting that I don't know everything..

That will work when your house is getting invaded by sheetrock.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:51:37 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.

Congrats on the dumbest fucking post of the day.

Of course birdshot will fuck you up. A BB from a Daisy could fuck you up if the shot placement was just right.

But how well does birdshot STOP THE THREAT compared to 00 or 000?

Surely you are not comparing a fucking red rider and a 12 gauge? Dont be a tool . There is always at least one dumbass who says dumb post but no one yet has wanted to take a load from a 12 gauge. SO until someone does STFU.

jeeezzz....

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:52:28 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.

Stupid argument. Many people have been killed by many different calibers, methods, objects, etc. You wouldn't want to be slammed in the face with a mallet right? I guess that makes it great for home defense.

Volunteer to let me shoot you with an airsoft rifle to the eyeball at close range. Oh, you don't want me to? Great home defense weapon.

That does seem to be a difficult concept to understand doesn't it.

Not an apples to apples comparison if you are not intelligent enough to understand the difference then you have a problem. A 12 gauge will end up doing damage you do not recover from. Tell me the same of the airsoft. Always a bunch of idiots who make silly comparisons here.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:52:35 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:

*snip*

I've never had anyone volunteer to let me hit them in the face with my toaster as hard as I can. That doesn't mean I grab a toaster instead of a gun if someone breaks in.

My toaster oven has more stopping power than your toaster.

High capacity assault toaster?

http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/public/z0yd2xSNM8-_uL2psVYQ_bcSWu1Xyb-J-tVFsinPPPH8DUV7IIPe8dRkdPPTH4-QgB6r-tJrX15arA1VZ05Stuqs38crNeJvzmidaCMBMPYnrhaeylONU9y5cuT3ROGkOjHFpeJq0iSb2gcpm2WmKBTXBk4NJnvSvAcLYVB9moCSdxfnAoN79ZfvekXXRakQC7432zZQKIjj-JFn_sUOyaaN53mQH0p7D8rb6CL65uhFIatCnmEUZa9lOaaLfHvPOcqBohqsBZYw3ch6t4O2_olloWvrliMxyDnd=s120-c

Four slots allowed in NY

What about this monster?

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:54:00 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:
*snip*
I've never had anyone volunteer to let me hit them in the face with my toaster as hard as I can. That doesn't mean I grab a toaster instead of a gun if someone breaks in.

My toaster oven has more stopping power than your toaster.

High capacity assault toaster?
http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/public/z0yd2xSNM8-_uL2psVYQ_bcSWu1Xyb-J-tVFsinPPPH8DUV7IIPe8dRkdPPTH4-QgB6r-tJrX15arA1VZ05Stuqs38crNeJvzmidaCMBMPYnrhaeylONU9y5cuT3ROGkOjHFpeJq0iSb2gcpm2WmKBTXBk4NJnvSvAcLYVB9moCSdxfnAoN79ZfvekXXRakQC7432zZQKIjj-JFn_sUOyaaN53mQH0p7D8rb6CL65uhFIatCnmEUZa9lOaaLfHvPOcqBohqsBZYw3ch6t4O2_olloWvrliMxyDnd=s120-c

Four slots allowed in NY

What about this monster?
http://www.deluxehire.co.uk/WebRoot/BT2/Shops/Store2_002E_Shop1958/46A3/82BC/7710/D776/422B/AC10/3D29/38FE/protoaster.jpg

Mine > yours

Posted: 4/25/2013 8:55:26 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Its not the conclusion I drew I said a load of bird shot will kill you dead and it will . If you are so dumb that you want to compare a BB gun to a firearm then you are an idiot.

Yes, a load of bird shot can "kill you dead". The potential certainly is there.

Like I said before you have 0 proof that your theory is correct . House distance is less than 20 feet At that range a load of 7 shot will do you in. Your chances of surviving are negligible , So quit saying stupid things . We are not talking about someone being shot at 25 yards with a load of 7 or 8 shot.

How about my proof? I worked a home invasion one time where a guy tool a load of birdshot in the hand, neck, face from about 18 feet. He turned around, ran out the front door, got into a car with his buddy and left the scene.

He wasn't happy when we found him, but it sure didnt "do him in".

You don't know what you are talking about

Obviously it worked for home defense did it not? I guess I do know what I am talking about. ETA I personally witnessed someone live after being shot with a 5.56 would you say that means it is not a good choice ?

I have seen someone live after being shot with a bunch of rounds of various calibers, including splash and shrapnel from 30MM (apache). It doesn't prove anything except for the fact that humans can take a lot of damage and continue to fight given the right circumstances.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Does Gunsite still teach birdshot for home defense? (Page 2 of 9)

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