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Posted: 10/4/2002 3:44:40 AM EDT
WTOP radio reports police have indicated that the Maryland sniper used a "high power hunting or assault rifle chambered in .223" Get ready for the shit to start flying.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 3:58:48 AM EDT
The news conference this morning speculated it was an "assault rifle, not known if an illegal one, but it could have been a hunting rifle". They distributed photos of what rifle could have been used, but those did not make it on TV.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:03:10 AM EDT
This is probably just a plot to make "assault weapons" appear as if "they" are responsible for the shootings! Doesn't matter that it could have been a "hunting rifle".
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:10:24 AM EDT
From what I heard in the press conference, Police Chief Moose initially stated it was a .223 hunting rifle and was then compelled to add 'assault rifle' at the end of his sentence.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:14:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:19:31 AM EDT
the rifle was used in an assault, therefore its an "assault rifle"... I think the reason they called it a hunting rifle is so they can demonstrate that hunting rifles also need to be banned...
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:20:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BoWilliams: This is probably just a plot to make "assault weapons" appear as if "they" are responsible for the shootings! Doesn't matter that it could have been a "hunting rifle".
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That's the rub. The antis demonize AW's because of their firepower capabilities and magazine capacities. Yet in this situation the firearm involved is being used in a precision role. Assuming the worst and the shooter is using an AR the antis will rehash their spin on the dangers to society that "black rifles" present. We're screwed either way. I'm guessing that the rifle involved is probably something like a Remington VS or PSS (great, another black rifle to go after).
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:29:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BoWilliams: This is probably just a plot to make "assault weapons" appear as if "they" are responsible for the shootings! Doesn't matter that it could have been a "hunting rifle".
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Ands of course with the ONE shot kills, i wouldn't be surprised if they will soon start talking about reducing magazine capacities to 5 rounds - by their perverted logic... DD
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:35:16 AM EDT
In the latest press conference (just ended) Police Chief Moose now says the 'type' of weapon is unconfirmed. Single shot hunting pistols have not been ruled out either. Next press conference is at 9:30 AM.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:36:29 AM EDT
More reason to go out and get one! A sunset in 2004 is almost as imaginable as Rosie's kinky, bedroom festivities.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:37:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By devotedad:
Originally Posted By BoWilliams: This is probably just a plot to make "assault weapons" appear as if "they" are responsible for the shootings! Doesn't matter that it could have been a "hunting rifle".
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Ands of course with the ONE shot kills, i wouldn't be surprised if they will soon start talking about reducing magazine capacities to 5 rounds - by their perverted logic... DD
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5 Shot Mags? This perp proved you only need 1, so they will call for a ban on all single shot rifles. Precision shooting my butt, the perp probably shot from less than 50 yards, but he was cool, calm and collected. That is what should scare the police. He/she was not worried about getting caught when they pulled the trigger.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:40:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:46:46 AM EDT
Something like this happened recently in McKinney, TX, where the guy shot & killed two nurses (one was his wife) while hiding in a nearby field. Not sure what weapon he used though.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:50:08 AM EDT
Is a 767 an "Assault Jet?" I drove my "Assault Car" to work this morning and I'm using my "Assault Tools" right now... I should be outlawed... What's for lunch?... "Assault Burger" and fries is my guess.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:50:10 AM EDT
"Let's hold a police conference to toss out as many catch phrases as we possibly can in our Nazi efforts to rid all gun owners of their firearms at the hands of the ignorant" Seems to be the gist of things. Anyway, I know I am speaking to the choir, so this is more geared at what shold be said to that antis... doesn't this just prove how useless and UNBELIEVABLE ignorant the argument is about forcing us to rely on the police for our protection? I would dare say the probability that this could have been stopped sooner if not prevented had there been gun toting citizens would be quite high. Anyway, I'll stop my ranting on things everyone knows. The sheer densitiy of the ignorance and lack of rational logic of the antis blows my mind.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:52:10 AM EDT
Well, so much for the ".223 won't kill ya" crowd. BTW, I'm having a cup of assault coffee.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:53:53 AM EDT
1 shot kills with .223? Man this is going to end the debate for good on the effectiveness of this round! Personally I don't think they have it right, most likely .308 or .30-06.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:54:38 AM EDT
I dont rule out al-Qaeda.. Johnny Taliban's info was that these types of terror attacks would take place... Since murder is illegal and it didnt stop the terrorist that did this..how is banning ownership by decent folks..gonna help... I'm preachin to the choir here... What would have helped was citizens who are armed..Maryland not very firearms friendly cut its own throat and its citizens..had they been armed..the terrorist might have thought twice... When Hamas terrorists were interviewed as to why they selected the targets they had...the answer was "lack of security" they picked the easiest targets... We are at war...and our politicians and liberals play into the hands of terrorists by seeking to disarm the very people that may have been able to have stopped this...We The People
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:55:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 1shot: In the latest press conference (just ended) Police Chief Moose now says the 'type' of weapon is unconfirmed. Single shot hunting pistols have not been ruled out either. Next press conference is at 9:30 AM.
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A single shot hunting pistol making a headshot at 100+ yards? Not out of the question but IMO very unlikely. If the predator is skilled at "1 shot 1 kill" then he has no use for a semi-automatic either. I'll bet he's using a bolt action Remington or Winchester with a halfway decent scope.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 4:57:46 AM EDT
"assault hunting rifle"?? now they are jsut getting absurd.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:00:06 AM EDT
seems to me like they're spending, and will spend, too much time on WHAT was used, instead of focusing on WHO DUNNIT.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:05:36 AM EDT
Not intended as cop-bashing or an insinuation that they don't know for certain, but without the expended brass I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference 223 Rem. bullet and a 22-250 bullet. Same bullet can be fired thru both a 223 and a 22-250, with the exception that IMHO the 22-250 would be more lethal, what-da-ya think? Mike
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:10:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:16:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MIerinMD: I'll bet he's using a bolt action Remington or Winchester with a halfway decent scope.
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Me too. I think Chief Moose was just trying to emphasize that it could have been any type of weapon that utilized rifle rounds. No info from 8:30 conference on suspect(s) profile.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:16:39 AM EDT
Fox News showed a typical rifle that uses .223 and I think it was a photo of an Armalite 180.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:25:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: [url]http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20021003/s/1033684875.2483044417.jpg[/url] If this is a pic of the scene, that sure looks like a big hole for a .223. mike
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Here's a better picture. It does appear to be a pretty big hole for a .223, but since it's in a pane of glass it's tough to say what caliber was used. [img]http://www.sunspot.net/media/photo/2002-10/4862848.jpg[/img] Anyhow, whay are civilians being allowed that close to a piece of evidence?
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:30:12 AM EDT
Did they say how they know it was a .223? Did they recover a bullet from one of victims? Do they have any shell casings? That hole in the window looks way big for a .223. Has anyone shot a glass window like that with a .223?
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:33:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:37:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Camp_Ninja: Well, so much for the ".223 won't kill ya" crowd. BTW, I'm having a cup of assault coffee.
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Hell, Lordtrader's 'Pocket Rocket Mini-Assault Penis' can kill you if he sticks it in the right place!
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:38:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2002 5:38:57 AM EDT by MIerinMD]
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By Aces-and-Eights:
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: [url]http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20021003/s/1033684875.2483044417.jpg[/url] If this is a pic of the scene, that sure looks like a big hole for a .223. mike
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Here's a better picture. It does appear to be a pretty big hole for a .223, but since it's in a pane of glass it's tough to say what caliber was used. [url]http://www.sunspot.net/media/photo/2002-10/4862848.jpg[/url] Anyhow, whay are civilians being allowed that close to a piece of evidence?
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Um, guys, the size of the hole in glass means nothing. Notice the bench the flowers are laying on. The hole appears to be about head height. What size hole would a bullet make [i]after it is deformed[/i] passing through someone's skull? [;)]
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That begs the question (and you ballistics pros help me out here): Would a .223 at a distance of 100+ yards, passing through someone's skull still have enough kinetic energy to still punch a CLEAN hole though a window? Wouldn't the head have altered the trajectory and fragmented the projectile? In order to make a clean path through the head, the round would have to be jacketed. But if it was jacketed, it wouldn't have made that big of a hole? Any thoughts?
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:39:27 AM EDT
was listening to the radio and they said the fbi said the weapons used were: IMI battle rifle/Assault Rifle Rem. 660 and Rem Semi-Auto hunting rifle most likely 1 or 2 men between the ages of 18-25. There was also a report that 10 guns were stolen a week ago in the same location. I find it hard to believe that anyone who could buy an IMI rifle of any type would do this, they are way too much money. It has to be a stolen gun.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:42:05 AM EDT
what is an imi battle rifle?
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:43:31 AM EDT
I think a magic bullet was used and fired from the grassy knoll.....
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:44:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MIerinMD: A single shot hunting pistol making a headshot at 100+ yards? Not out of the question but IMO very unlikely. If the predator is skilled at "1 shot 1 kill" then he has no use for a semi-automatic either. I'll bet he's using a bolt action Remington or Winchester with a halfway decent scope.
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Not that I'm saying that a pistol was the weapon, but either a T/C Contender or an XP-100 from a stable shooting platform is perfectly capable of head-shots at 100+ yards. You guys need to shoot more long-range pistols.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:46:22 AM EDT
ohhhhhhh boy, get ready folks. brace yourself for impact, be ready to react to turbulence before the crash. i'm gonna go hide in my assault house. [peep]
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:47:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2002 5:49:28 AM EDT by Stoney-Point]
IIRC, the bullet hole shown thru the window is from the first shot fired. Apparently, it didn't kill anybody...the next 5 shots were the deadly ones. Why the flowers are there? Some body thought they were going to start a memorial to those who died. Also, I have a single shot pistol (.30-06 Lone Eagle) I can hold 1-1 1/2" groups at 100 yards. Plus, had that shot gone thru a head, wouldn't there be traces of blood on the window?
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:48:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2002 5:51:59 AM EDT by Aces-and-Eights]
Originally Posted By usma89: was listening to the radio and they said the fbi said the weapons used were: IMI battle rifle/Assault Rifle Rem. 660 and Rem Semi-Auto hunting rifle most likely 1 or 2 men between the ages of 18-25. There was also a report that 10 guns were stolen a week ago in the same location. I find it hard to believe that anyone who could buy an IMI rifle of any type would do this, they are way too much money. It has to be a stolen gun.
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[url=http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/South/10/03/profiler.brown.cnna/index.html] Here's part of the spin on that[/url]. Note the reference to "stockpiling of weapons". The press is going to have a field day roasting gun owners over this. BROWN: Well, the ballistics is going to be very important. They are going to want to find out what kind of gun we're looking at here. They're going to want to see who in the community has these kinds of guns or who has had these guns stolen recently. For example, we have had a gun shop in the area, right over in P.G. [Prince Georges] County across the border there, that had a robbery. I believe it was last week. And 12 guns were stolen from that gun shop. We want to find out: Is it a stolen gun? We want to find out who in the neighborhood has been talking a lot about guns. These kind of people don't stay real quiet. So we're going to have somebody who has been probably shooting off his mouth in the recent past about his grudges against people, and he could wish he could take care of them all. Something like that, we're going to be looking to the community for that information. CHUNG: So, basically what you're saying is that this person is committing these crimes with warning. He is signaling someone. It's just that those individuals have to come forward and recognize it. BROWN: Absolutely. This kind of person doesn't -- it's not like everybody says, "Oh, we had no idea." There has got to be some issues going on in this guy's life. And he's got to have a tremendous interest in weaponry. He might have a stockpile of weapons in his room. If it's a younger person -- and I don't believe this is a teenager. I believe we're looking into the 20s, maybe early 30s. This is somebody who may have a lot of interest in any kinds of things like -- I said "Guns & Ammo" magazine, or, what's the one, for going overseas and shooting people down, that kind of military stuff, any kind of thing which shows a desire for power, that he would like to be that, maybe that military guy that can do that sniper-type of work. Edited to add; "or, what's the one, for going overseas and shooting people down, that kind of military stuff" = SOF? So much for the experts.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:49:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:54:03 AM EDT
IMI is most likely Israel Military Industries. That would probably mean the "battle rifle" (not) would be a Galil.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 5:56:08 AM EDT
Not sure either. This may be the pic of the store front of the Michaels Arts and Crafts store. The missed shot prior to all the other shootings the night before. The lady that was shot sitting on the bench was i recalla bus stop bench in front of the P.O. not sure though. DD
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 6:04:26 AM EDT
The guy on the news conference just got handed a Colt ar-15 by the ATF guy and said if you know anybody that owns one and has been acting strange to call him. [%|]
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 6:04:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By devotedad: Not sure either. This may be the pic of the store front of the Michaels Arts and Crafts store. The missed shot prior to all the other shootings the night before. The lady that was shot sitting on the bench was i recalla bus stop bench in front of the P.O. not sure though. DD
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Caption for the closeup picture: [url]http://www.sunspot.net[/url] "Roses lay on the bench where Sarah Ramos was shot. Ramos, a cleaning lady, was outside the Leisure World post office, waiting for her boss to give her a ride to work."
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 6:06:19 AM EDT
ATF started news conference holding Colt ar 15, now holding bolt action scoped sniper rifle in .223.......
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 6:09:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aces-and-Eights: Caption for the closeup picture: [url]http://www.sunspot.net[/url] "Roses lay on the bench where Sarah Ramos was shot. Ramos, a cleaning lady, was outside the Leisure World post office, waiting for her boss to give her a ride to work."
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I stand corrected. DD
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 6:09:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 6:10:42 AM EDT
we all knew this day was coming sooner or later. let's just pray there's no copy cat ass captains out there. we're really gonna have to respond to imminant mediaisms. get your assault keyboards ready. BROWN: "This is somebody who may have a lot of interest in any kinds of things like -- I said "Guns & Ammo". "early 30's" [shock] good lord!!! i'm a criminal!! ewwwwwwwww, get it off me!!! i'm sorry guys [V] i need a glass of assault water [:E]
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 6:11:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2002 6:14:40 AM EDT by KC0CXA]
Originally Posted By MrP: Did they say how they know it was a .223? Did they recover a bullet from one of victims? Do they have any shell casings? That hole in the window looks way big for a .223. Has anyone shot a glass window like that with a .223?
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According the the Washington Post they havent recovered any shell casing. They havent said anything about bullets yet though. But if this guy is driving around in the back of a box truck shooting people. I dont know about your AR's but mine throws the shells pretty far I think one would have rolled out the back, and some one would have found it by now. I think this is a bolt action rifle. I would have to say that I havent shot anybody, but one guy said "there was a wound the size of a coffee cup in his chest" Even if it goes all the through from the back isnt that a bit big for a .223? I dont know. [sniper] KC
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 6:14:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2002 6:18:48 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
For you Marylanders - I'm offering to store your AR15's in my safe in the free state of Pennsylvania for only $5 per month. [;)] Bend over boys, here comes the Registration, ammo limitations, etc........ Looks like I left just in time.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 6:15:18 AM EDT
Stuff like this just gives me that sick, empty feeling in the bottom of my stomach. I plan to make my first "black rifle" purchase this coming week after much wait an anticipation. It's a pitiful shame that in about two years... or for that matter now, I will be "criminalized" for owning it. God help this country and the Nazis who have pretty much already destroyed it.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 6:18:43 AM EDT
For those of you who haven't ever seen one, or knew what they were, let me inform you now: They make these bag-looking things, sometimes a plastic box, etc., that hang off of the gun to catch the brass that is thrown from the gun. They call them BRASS CATCHERS. I have one.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 6:18:52 AM EDT
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