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Posted: 9/30/2002 12:55:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2002 12:55:53 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
For those who think Bush is gonna save you in 2004, I have very bad news which I've been saying all along. [url]http://www.issues2000.org/George_W__Bush_Gun_Control.htm[/url] Agrees with Gore on trigger locks;but wants more enforcement Where They Agree: Regarding guns, Texas Gov. George W. Bush and Vice President Al Gore would, if elected president: [b]Support the current ban on assault weapons.[/b] Prohibit juveniles from possessing assault weapons. [b]Ban imports of high-capacity ammunition clips. [/b] Raise the minimum age for possessing a handgun from 18 to 21. Require that trigger locks be sold with handguns. Where They Differ Bush also would: Provide more money for enforcement of gun laws. Support automatic detention for young people who commit crimes with guns. Oppose government-mandated registration of guns owned by people who don’t break laws. Gore also would: Require photo licensing for handgun purchases. Limit gun purchases to one per month and require a three-day waiting period. Require manufacturers and federally licensed sellers to report sales to a state authority. Would sign, but would not push, gun restrictions Bush has said he would sign a law requiring trigger locks with handgun sales but wouldn’t push such legislation. Bush has endorsed outlawing the import of certain high-capacity ammunition clips. Bush also would raise the legal age for handgun purchases from 18 to 21. Source: Judy Holland, Hearst Newspapers Apr 14, 2000 Ban automatic weapons & high-capacity ammunition clips Supports stronger enforcement of existing gun laws, would provide more funding for aggressive gun law enforcement programs such as Project Exile in Richmond, Virginia Supports requiring instant background checks at gun shows by allowing gun show promoters to access the instant check system on behalf of vendors Supports law-abiding American’s constitutional right to own guns to protect their families and home Supports the current ban on automatic weapons Supports banning the importation of foreign made, “high-capacity” ammunition clips Supports voluntary safety locks Opposes government mandated registration of all guns owned by law abiding citizens And here is WHY: [url]http://www.issues2000.org/Background_Gun_Control.htm[/url] Statistics on Gun Ownership 40% of all US homes have guns 81% of Americans say that gun control will be an important issue in determining which Congressional candidate to vote for. 91% of Americans say that there should be at least minor restrictions on gun ownership; 57% of Americans say that there should be major restrictions or a ban. We are basically outnumbered 6 to 4.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 12:57:59 PM EDT
Well, at least he doesn't oppose high cappacity magazines.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 12:58:10 PM EDT
Yes. Politicians always keep true to what they say during elections.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 1:01:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chimborazo: Well, at least he doesn't oppose high cappacity magazines.
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Yes he does. He even supports a ban on imported preban high caps. And this info is still his current views and they will not change in two years.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 1:25:05 PM EDT
But.... but.... he's the LESSER of two evils, and by putting him into office, we have our "rights" just a little longer. This of course is the constant cry of the fools on this board and elsewhere. In all honesty, fuck that. Voting for the lesser of two evils still gets you killed. While some are content to stay in the pot as long as it simmers slowly, some of us prefer to get out of the damed pot.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 1:25:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2002 1:26:31 PM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]
To hell with both of them, I have lost almost all my faith in politicians these dyas. I use to trust Bush on our gun rights but I have lost that trust for him and he has lost my vote as well if he favors the AW ban not sunseting(writing a new ban).
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 1:27:08 PM EDT
At least with Bush we have a chance. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and not hold him to what was necessary that he say to win support among the soccer mom voting block. Would you have rather Gore been elected?
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 1:27:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By go3: Yes. Politicians always keep true to what they say during elections.
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So in other words, during campaigns the democrats tell the truth and the republicans lie. Makes you wonder what else dubya was lying about to get elected.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 1:27:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2002 1:27:57 PM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]
Originally Posted By Boomer: Would you have rather Gore been elected?
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Hell no! I just have a gut feeling that GW isnt going to help us much in the coming years.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 1:28:12 PM EDT
Duh!!!!
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 1:31:27 PM EDT
I agree with Boomer. I'll admit I was not thrilled when I read GW's position on AW's back during the campaign. On that issue, it truly was the lesser of two evils. We need to remember something, though. We are in a COMPLETELY different world, both politically and socially, than we were back then. If we make our voices heard, and are smart about it, GW may very well change his mind. Besides, who's he going to piss off by doing so, the Soccer Moms? Most of them didn't vote for him then, and love him now for the way he's handling the war. The trick would be his selling it, or simply stating we're too busy with REAL criminals to e worried about PRETEND ones. Also, if we can hold the Congress, we can kill anything new in committee, thus sparing GW from exposure. I really think it's going to sunset. This is cautious optimism, but I keep feeling more and more cautiously confident day after day. Let's hope...
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 1:38:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boomer: At least with Bush we have a chance. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and not hold him to what was necessary that he say to win support among the soccer mom voting block. Would you have rather Gore been elected?
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I agree with you, the only problem is.....won't he need to say that again in order to gain soccer mom support again in 2004 and with the ban supposed to sunset the demsorats will want deeds, not just words, meaning executive order to keep the AWB intact.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 1:57:46 PM EDT
Here we go again with folks talking about "political realities" and such as justifications for voting for someone who WILL and DOES violate your god-given rights. I'm sorry, but that doesn't make sense. This ain't about "political viability" or any other bullshit mental masturbation. This is about LIFE and DEATH. A violation of your god-given rights leads to your DEATH. Protecting ALL of our rights, no matter the cost guarantees LIFE. All you folks who can and do participate in your own deaths, fine, vaya con dios. Me? I not only won't actively participate in my own death, but I will defend my life and the lives of others with every drop of spirit that I can muster.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 1:58:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:
Originally Posted By Boomer: Would you have rather Gore been elected?
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Hell no! I just have a gut feeling that GW isnt going to help us much in the coming years.
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Exactly correct! Which is why Bush 2 will follow Bush 1 as a one term president. I sat on my hands when his father ran for relection. When the son does the expected with the AW ban, I will sit on them again. You should be buying what you need NOW, the election of Bush only postponed the inevitable. I am wrong? I hope so, but I won't be [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/sadness.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 2:07:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 2:09:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 2:14:51 PM EDT
One last point. Stop blaming those of us who only vote for candidates who protect ALL of our rights. It's not our faults that our voting as such puts Democrats into office. Nope. It's the fault of all the other spineless folks out there who DON'T vote for folks who will protect ALL of our rights as well.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 2:19:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 2:22:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 2:26:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 2:28:10 PM EDT
[url]http://harrybrowne.org/TerrorismSeries.htm[/url] Yeah!!! Let's all vote libertarian in the next election. [puke] The real irony is this is the shit that he (Browne) considered socially acceptable. You should have seen the crap on that page before the party told him to STFU. So I guess that leaves the voting for the democraps.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 2:30:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: Not a flame, but THAT attitude brought us Klinton/Whore. Wasn't that a great thing?
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Certainly not. But this points to the hopeless nature of this issue from our point of view. As far as I was concerned there was only slight difference between Bush and Clinton on this issue. I did not vote for Bush during the Primary, and when he got the nomination, I stayed home. I have no reason to believe Bush 2 will be any better at all. He has staked out his position on this issue pretty clearly, and I will act accordingly. [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/sadness.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 3:31:33 PM EDT
They aren't banning high capacity ammunition magazines.. the correct term for it. They wanna ban high capacity ammunition CLIPS.. never knew there were hicap garand clips
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 4:05:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2002 4:05:37 PM EDT by go3]
Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Originally Posted By go3: Yes. Politicians always keep true to what they say during elections.
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So in other words, during campaigns the democrats tell the truth and the republicans lie. Makes you wonder what else dubya was lying about to get elected.
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Pot, kettle, black, etc.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 4:46:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Originally Posted By Boomer: At least with Bush we have a chance. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and not hold him to what was necessary that he say to win support among the soccer mom voting block. Would you have rather Gore been elected?
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I agree with you, the only problem is.....won't he need to say that again in order to gain soccer mom support again in 2004 and with the ban supposed to sunset the demsorats will want deeds, not just words, meaning executive order to keep the AWB intact.
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Like I said, I'm just going to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he does. I'm thinking that Congress won't be able to pass the legislation and Bush will blame them. Works for me. Clinton/Gore also said during the 96 election that theirs would be the most ethical administration in the history of the nation. That didn't exactly come true, now did it? :D
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 5:02:56 PM EDT
One day in the not too distant future you will click a topic on the board that reads "Can I put a Leupold on my Savage 110?" The replies will read "No that scope makes too many evil features for President George Bush III's deadly weapon ban of 2018." Then you click on the EE forum to read "Pre-Ban Bushmaster XM15 20 inch barrel with muzzle brake only $3500, its also a semi-auto with a high-cap 10 rd mag so you have to pay your $500 tax stamp and I can only send it to a certified semi-auto ffl." Then you will say, but how could this happen? I voted for the lesser of two evils!!!
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 5:23:25 PM EDT
I am just thinking out loud here so excuse me if this sounds stupid. I remember seeing an episode of the History Channel where they mentioned how Winchester used to give a specially engraved version of their model 1894 rifle to each newly elected president. Well maybe one of the quality AR-15 manufacturers could present a specially engraved AR-15 to our current president and when he sees how great it is, he will not allow the AW ban to be renewed.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 5:36:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2002 5:39:04 PM EDT by bobbyjack]
Nobody really thought the AW ban was going to sunset did they? We have been living with it just fine as it is now! And I've bought two new guns this year both came with locks,now If they pass a law saying I have to use these locks then I would be pissed! I have no small children(or I might think about using the locks), So what else is new? Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 5:47:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2002 5:55:08 PM EDT by Sweep]
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 6:04:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 6:13:00 PM EDT
God damn it, some of you guys are getting me pissed off! You guys who are saying you won't vote because even the lesser of two evils is too evil to vote for might as well just vote for Gore or Clinton next time for all the good you'll be doing your cause. Damn straight, Bush isn't as pro-gun as we'd like him to be, but he's not the only one that matters. If we can apply enough pressure to our congressment to keep any gun banning bills from passing in the House or the Senate, then what Bush (or Gore, or any other President) thinks about the issue doesn't matter diddly. And...Bush is the sort of political animal that changes his position frequently as public opinion changes. Look at the reversal concerning arming pilots. Bush will become more pro-gun if pro-gun people become a more powerful voting block. He wants to get re-elected, and the AW ban will be coming up on its expiration date just weeks before the election. He knows damned well that he can count on every conscious gun owner to vote against him if that ban gets replaced and he signs it or doesn't veto it. And if we vote against him, he's history. Granted, he's not the most pro-gun President we'd like to see, but any vote NOT cast for him is almost as bad as a vote cast for Gore. Your vote for Bush will cancel out a vote for Gore. Remember that. And with two years left, don't you think that you can get some other gun owners to become a little more active about their gun rights? I'll bet you can, if you try. I signed up two more NRA members in the past few months. What did YOU do to further the gun cause? As for those figures stated earlier...I think that they are in error. I have a feeling that more than 40 percent of US households has a gun in it. But not all of them admit to it. CJ
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 6:40:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson: You guys who are saying you won't vote because even the lesser of two evils is too evil to vote for might as well just vote for Gore or Clinton next time for all the good you'll be doing your cause.
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Ponit taken, I will vote for GW again if he's the only option to keep the commies from gaining an extra 4 year lead.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 7:08:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2002 9:12:45 PM EDT by Kroagnon]
Originally Posted By Sweep: Let's face it. Gun registration is coming and there is nothing we can do about it. ...and we all know what follows.
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With "pro gun" people like you who needs anti-gunners? You've already surrendered but don't think you speak for the rest of us. If it comes down to it, anybody that writes down the serial numbers of any of my gun(s) will be doing so in their own blood. My second amendment RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS will NOT be registered! The Clinton Regime brought out more gun owner votes than ever in 2000; if this trend continues we will do very well this election indeed. Check out the Torricelli race - Democrats are trying to put another candidate forward because they know he won't win. They're losing even before the election! And the good part is that they can't since they are too close to the election date. [:D]
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 8:57:28 PM EDT
The question put before GWB Jr. in Issues2000 was during the pre-election debate with Gore. GWB Jr's position could've changed since then. What about the letter AG John Ashcroft sent to the NRA? I hope the AW will expire even though it will cause my pre-bans to decrease in value. In my opinion this would be a big loss for the Brady Bunch and VPC and their minions because of the political capital expended, the Democrats lost control of both houses of Congress in '94, and the Democrats dream of socialized medicine etc pretty much died at that point. You can be sure that the L.A.'s pending 50cal ban is in response to the possible repeal of the '94 AW ban. They are trying to keep the issue alive in the mainstream news media before the general public to generate sympathetic views to renew the AW ban.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 9:23:31 PM EDT
WWW.INFOWARS.COM Get a short wave radio, buy more ammo, and learn real history. Learn who BUSH really is and what he really stands for. Do a search on the Bohemian Grove, or better yet get Alex Jones's documentary, Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove. He succesfully infiltrated and caught on tape the most disturbing satanic behavior I have ever seen. These people are our leaders... to all the nay sayers out there, wake up, big stuff is going down RIGHT NOW and it's not to help us. Don't get me wrong Klinton was just as evil, but atleast we knew he was evil and nobody trusted him. Bush some how has everybody fooled because he claims to be from Texas and has had a couple of photo ops with him wearing a cowboy hat. This pisses me off. Never turn in your firearms. The Modern State Emergency Health Powers Act has provisions to confiscate all firearms in the event of a biological terror attack. We all now know who trained, funded, and sponsered the last "terror" attack. Don't put it past our leaders/globalists to launch another attack to get such a provision instated. Keep your powder dry and your senses sharp Good luck and God bless. BrettA
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 9:37:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2002 5:22:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DJbump: One last point. Stop blaming those of us who only vote for candidates who protect ALL of our rights. It's not our faults that our voting as such puts Democrats into office. Nope. It's the fault of all the other spineless folks out there who DON'T vote for folks who will protect ALL of our rights as well.
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The problem is, there isn't any such candidate that's big enough to have a snowball's chance of even being SEEN by the media. Sometimes a 'no compromises' approach is a bad thing. Bush isn't sufficiently pro-gun to suit your tastes (mine neither) but he's not as anti as the other choices. He's the best we've got to work with, so it's in our best interests to re-elect him by voting AGAINST his opposition and FOR him. Be assured, if a bigger block of gun owners votes for him and also puts him on notice that the gun issue is the only one we vote on, he'll moderate his stance still more. If he knew with certainty that a totally pro-gun platform is necessary to win the election, he'd adopt a totally pro-gun platform, and he'd stick to it. CJ
Link Posted: 10/1/2002 5:53:30 AM EDT
Dear President Bush, I am writing to you to let you know that I voted for you in the last election. You swore to uphold and protect the Constitution of the United States when you took office. I urge you to let the Assault Weapon Ban Law "sunset" in Sept 2004 If you pass any legislation which further infringes upon my gun rights, you will NOT get my vote in 2004. Freedom is not free. sincerely,
Link Posted: 10/1/2002 6:12:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2002 6:15:49 AM EDT by SeaDweller]
It's a fairly simple concept. Slow it down or let it proceed full steam. Those that waste your vote fall into the latter category. The above doesn't apply if you reside in Kommiefornia. Too many jackass democraps that are still hardup for Klinton/Whore. I guess they need about a million more Republicans in that POS state. Either that or other states can have a million of the idiots living there. Take your pick.
Link Posted: 10/1/2002 8:01:11 AM EDT
Email his ass, daily or maybe weekly so they don't block your address. If your email can send automated messages, do that. But still, no replacement for a good snail mailed letter. Hell I may even try a hand written one myself. GW is a politicain, he's playing both sides of the fence right now. He needs to know we won't vote for his ass if he don't. Who will we vote for ???? don't bother me with that right now.[:D] Surely with engouh emails and letters, his office will tell him he can't support a renewal.... Bush does have pull with 60%+ approval, his opinion will probably mean something when time comes for him to lean on congress to let such legislation die in committee. GW's contact info: [url]http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/[/url] do you beleive this shit...no 1800 number to the Whitehouse, gotta pay LD. Maybe I can call and leave a message every now and again.
Link Posted: 10/1/2002 8:38:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sweep: I've got an idea. Let's get Wayne LaPierre from the NRA to run for President.[rolleyes] Let's face it. Gun registration is coming and there is nothing we can do about it. ...and we all know what follows.
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Yep!!
Link Posted: 10/1/2002 8:45:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By DJbump: One last point. Stop blaming those of us who only vote for candidates who protect ALL of our rights. It's not our faults that our voting as such puts Democrats into office. Nope. [red]It's the fault of all the other spineless folks out there who DON'T vote for folks who will protect ALL of our rights as well.[/red]
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Using that approach, if we all do as you say, that will serve to elect even MORE Liberals! Bwahahaha! [:D]
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Ya, and your approach has worked real well for the last 50 years! Look where we are... It's time for the Constitution to be put back in W.A. D.C., one way or the other....
Link Posted: 10/1/2002 9:05:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By Sweep: I've got an idea. Let's get Wayne LaPierre from the NRA to run for President.[rolleyes] Let's face it. Gun registration is coming and there is nothing we can do about it. ...and we all know what follows.
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Well, Sweep, with all due respect, that kind of defeatist attitude sucks.
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It's not defeatist at all raf, it's reality. No matter who is elected, we still lose. This has been true for many years. The public has been, and continues to be so well indoctrinated, that Constitutionalists cannot get elected, with VERY rare exceptions. Some of us have looked back in history, and we see where this train eventually makes it's last stop. If the jews and others in Germany had done what we are trying to do, would millions of them still have been murdered? That's the last stop the train makes raf. When it gets to a stop where even folks like you will not comply, (I wonder what it will take), you will be killed or imprisoned..Our enemies will not give up, and it's too late now to "educate" America. "They" own the education system.....and the money.
Link Posted: 10/1/2002 9:31:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SeaDweller: It's a fairly simple concept. Slow it down or let it proceed full steam.
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That's about it, and there is no organization, integrity or balls for what is really needed to get back on track. Western Civ is doomed. It's too fat dumb and happy. Scott
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