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Posted: 9/30/2002 6:12:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2002 7:55:27 AM EDT by TapperMan]
For everyone with a defeatist attitude regarding the demise of the"Assault Weapons" ban, read [url=http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/09/27/MN22855.DTL]this article.[/url] Quote: "It would be tough, maybe impossible, to pass this in the current Congress, " conceded former Maryland Rep. Michael Barnes, who now heads the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "Lots of members from both parties wouldn't be willing to vote for reauthorization." This just underscores the importance of your vote in this fall's elections.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 6:32:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TapperMan: For everyone with a defeatist attitude regarding the demise of the"Assault Weapons" ban, read [url=http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/09/27/MN22855.DTL]this article.[/url] This just underscores the importance of your vote in this fall's elections.
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That, and written (NOT email!)letters to your representives stating clearly your position on this, and the fact you WILL NOT vote for them if they vote to reauthorize this. That is equally important!
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 8:59:33 AM EDT
EXCELLENT ARTICLE! About time we get some positive feedback for a change. Sometimes I feel like all hope is lost, but this renewed my faith!! [:D]
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 9:10:22 AM EDT
I seem to remember that it barely passed the first time--don't remember the actual vote even though I watched it live on C-Span--but it only passed by a few votes. Considering how divided everything has been lately (remember Bush-Gore?) this will be close as well. We have to get the message out to our "leaders" that they will not be re-elected should they vote for this clap-trap. Conservatives/freedom lovers have to start taking a hard line and play the lib's game for a change. Mess with us, and we'll take you out. Go ahead and call us names, you will anyway!
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 9:13:49 AM EDT
Can the article be tacked.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 9:40:50 AM EDT
You all forget that BCPGV/VPC and most importantly the ADL will be using the "anti-terrorism" angle to drum up support for a new ban. The sheeple who have been polled time and time again at around 70% who are willing to give up rights to fight the "war on terrorism" will eat it up. This way anyone not voting for it, will be accused of supporting al qaeda/iraq/iran/libya etc.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 9:47:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 10:02:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2002 10:08:42 AM EDT by bwiese]
If you can afford it, send your well-written letter to politicians via FedEx, Express Mail, UPS 2-day letter (2 day letter is OK). Ask for signed delivery. Not only have you cared enough to write, you've indicated you have *PAID* to get it directly on their desk and separate from the load of regular mail & postcards that they normally get. In 1998 I FedEx'd a nice, thoughtful, well-written letter to California Gov. Pete Wilson when something just about like the current SB23 AW ban had emerged from the legislature awaiting his signature. I also included names, addresses and phone numbers five or six friends around the Bay Area who'd agreed to "sign" the letter with me. When I saw the press release about why he didn't sign it into law I was quite pleased: some of my wording phraseology, concepts, etc. were changed in only minor ways in the Gov's written public statement. As I recall the 94 AWB ("Crime Bill") passed by only ONE vote. We got rid of the Speaker of the House, Tom Foley, in what was regarded as a relatively 'safe' seat - as well as many others. The 1994 elections were a rout for Democraps, leading to Clinton whining about what a shame it was to lose so many "brave people". I don't think HCI/VPC, etc. posturing about purported terrorism links to Americans owning black rifles will hold much sway: it's pretty well-known that sub-Saharan African, Pakistan, etc. are awash with all sorts of weapons. [Somewhere in Africa, I recall reading that a tolerably serviceable AK47 (read: AKM) could be fetched for a bag or two of rice.] Political battle lines will still be drawn along long-term progun or antigun concepts - it's a matter of getting out our votes. Concerns about economy, war, general 9/11 reaction etc will top voters' concerns. The danger is voters massively choosing a politician/ party giving out 'free cookies' (programs, subsidies, etc): even some of our own pro-gun folks will be suckered in by that. Bill Wiese San Jose, CA
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 10:11:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BenDover: EXCELLENT ARTICLE! About time we get some positive feedback for a change. [:D]
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Yep !!
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 10:15:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: You all forget that BCPGV/VPC and most importantly the ADL will be using the "anti-terrorism" angle to drum up support for a new ban. The sheeple who have been polled time and time again at around 70% who are willing to give up rights to fight the "war on terrorism" will eat it up. This way anyone not voting for it, will be accused of supporting al qaeda/iraq/iran/libya etc.
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I've read no recent polls that say that the American people are willing to neuter the Second Amendment. Quite the contrary. IIRC, a recent poll showed a record-high number of Americans subscribing to the view that Arms ownership was an individual right. One could easily make the case that if Americans felt physically threatened, they would seek access to arms, not favor legislation restricting access to same. In all liklihood, the more nervous Americans become, the more likely they are to favor gun ownership. The recent spate of gun buying right after 9-11 demonstrated that.
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I think [b]Imbro[/b] was referring to the way the "50 Cal Ban" was passed. Those LYING liberals successfully tied 50 cal "sniper guns" to Osama Bin Laden and street gangs/terrorist. That was just a tune-up fight for the liberals. They're going to do the same thing at the Federal level with the "New and Improved" AWB - lead by Dianne Fineswine and UpChuck Schumer. Next year, they're gonna tie it ALL together: * Gunshow "loopholes" * Terrorists * "Sniper rifles" * "Assault rifles" * street gangs * school shootings We've got to take control of the Senate AWAY from Democrats. Sh!t like that HAS to die in committees! Vote Republican. Vote Early. Vote Often.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 11:19:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 11:58:45 AM EDT
raf, I usually don't make personal comments on this board, but you're an IDIOT! The reason to vote for libertarians is this: Because there are plenty of Republicans who will vote for renewing the AW ban. I can name two right off the top of my head: McCain and Dole (if she gets elected). Control of the Senate is important, but only if that control is placed into the hands of people who respect small government, less spending, and support the Bill of Rights. You need to worry less about what the near future will be like and more about what twenty years from now will be like. If you keep voting for the lesser of two evils, you still end up with evil! I can't make it any simpler than that for you. I know you aren't playing with a full deck and all. Un-electable or not, libertarians still work towards the agenda of liberty--they are the ones who got the repeal of the income tax on the ballot in Massachusetts. It doesn't matter if it doesn't pass--it sends a message to the social democrats that the people are fed up with their Keynesian ways! The AW ban is important, but it is just one small part of a much larger gun control package that is already in place in this country. Only by suporting libertarians do we stand any chance of improving our lives over the long haul.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 12:07:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 12:11:06 PM EDT
I just hope there are no more Columbines for the liberals to politicize between now and then, or ever.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 12:14:23 PM EDT
Reality, a libertarian vote is a wasted vote. Of course one should vote according to the issues, and if a choice between an anti-gun republican and a pro-gun democrat, the dem gets my vote (barring some other abhorrent stance that would disuade me from voting for the dem anyway). But, if both are anti, the republican still gets my vote; here's why. A dem will not be amenable to pressure from republicans to vote the party line on a republican issue, another republican most certainly will be. Even though the individual repub. may have anti leanings, pressure to vote accordingly on traditionally republican issues will be great (not to mention intra-party "backscratching"). The dem party is so anti-gun that it really takes a strong willed [i]conservative[/i] dem to vote pro-gun (a rare thing indeed these days for most have already switched parties). Naturally, no liberatarian has any real chance, so you just wasted a vote to support your conscience. Now go out and make a vote that will count.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 12:33:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 12:41:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: I might believe you except that I've heard the same BS from the Libertarians for years and years and years... Someday if they [i]ever[/i] climb their way above single digits in the national elections, I might believe they could win something, sometime, somewhere. So far, even the new Green party is FAR outstripping them in vote gathering. One could argue that the Libertarian Party is a tool of the Libs to siphon off votes from the only party that is an obstacle to the Dems, namely the Repubs. Dream on, buddy.
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From a Libertarian, I vote Libertarian EVERY TIME they have a realistic chance of winning. I hav had the opportunity to vote Libertarians a handful of times in many local elections. I will be voting for Bush even after he signed teh new ban, which he has already said he WILL SIGN.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 12:54:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 3:10:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshit: raf, I [s]usually don't[/s] CONSTANTLY make personal comments on this board, but you're an IDIOT!
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I can not imagine you successfully persuading anyone to vote Libertarian. Spit on anyone lately? While I have in the past helped Libertarians via petitions and votes, I have seriously rethought my position. If Libertarians continue on their current path, they will end up in the same spoiler role as the Greens. While they may wield influence in a European style Parliamentary system, we have a "winner take all" system here. Fringe groups are despised and manipulated by those in power, and their members will pay a price eventually. The only thing more hated than an enemy is a traitor, and that is the role the Libertarians are moving towards on the Right, while the Greens are somewhat more tolerated on the left. Libertarians must prove themselves in local offices over a reasonable period of time in order to be taken seriously.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 3:16:13 PM EDT
Take my sig line to heart, and keep the faith- we can do it!
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 3:22:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAA--Keep talking, Trickshot. You surely have not convinced me, but you're amusing the hell out of me. LMAO You would have been the one furiously bailing water on the Titanic, convinced that it would [b]eventually[/b] do some good. LMAO
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Yeah, you guys who toe the party line with Republicans, somehow thinking they are pro-gun, have done us a whole lot of good haven't you? Sure Republicans are electable on the national level, but do they help RKBA? Not really.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 3:23:24 PM EDT
A libertarian vote is as good as voting twice for a democrap. Voting libertarian is fine if you lack any sense of [b] REALITY [/b] VOTE REPUBLICAN, AND DON'T LET THE DEMS DIVIDE AND CONQUER!
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 3:25:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By magnum_99: Of course one should vote according to the issues, and if a choice between an anti-gun republican and a pro-gun democrat, the dem gets my vote
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Maybe for local/state elections. But with the current conditions on the federal level, at least for the senate, we would be better served to vote for an anti-gun republican than a pro-gun democrat. Having one more vote for gun control is meaningless if we get the majority--then the legislation won't come up in the first place.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 3:27:27 PM EDT
When did he say this? I don't recall ever seeing this. 'I will be voting for Bush even after he signed teh new ban, which he has already said he WILL SIGN.'
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 3:29:22 PM EDT
When the republicans took the house and senate in 1996, both they and the democrats ackowledged that it was, in large part, due to the efforts of the NRA and a result of the Crime Bill. It was political FACT, and a VERY bald statement: Don't fuck with the 2nd amendment. Again in 2000, gun owners are given a large part of the credit for defeating Gore, in an election that was so close that its results are STILL in dispute. If GWB signs a renewed AW/hicap ban, and we put him back into office, we undo all the gains we've made in the last six years. Period. The democratic leadership will lose its fear of us and again push for draconian gun laws. Brady and VPC will trumpet from the rooftops that gun control is, in fact, SUPPORTED by the majority--and they will be RIGHT!
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 3:38:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: If the Libertarians were actually [i]serious[/i] about winning political power, they would discontinue ther futile national efforts, and seriously begin a grassroots effort to build the party base [b]from the ground up[/b]. Or if that's not feasable, discontinue poitical party efforts altogether, and become a lobbying special interest group, as the Environmentalists did. They sure were successful far beyond their mere numbers, because they played both side and got their agenda enacted. Until I see some [i]real[/i] change in the Libertarians' approach, they will continue to remind me of one of the definitions of madness: Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result each time. Bwahahahahaha!
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And that's the name of THAT tune! [:D]
Originally Posted By Redmanfms: Yeah, you guys who toe the party line with Republicans, somehow thinking they are pro-gun, have done us a whole lot of good haven't you? Sure Republicans are electable on the national level, but do they help RKBA? Not really.
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One more time for those who weren't paying attention: The 1994 AWB passed by a SINGLE vote in a DEMOCRATIC-controlled Congress. [b]Since then, there hasn't been ANY new federal gun laws passed in the last 8 years. Do you really think that's because DEMOCRATS were in control of Congress the whole time?!?!? [/b]
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 3:45:22 PM EDT
In my mind, it's the folks that think that voting on principle is not viable that have given up on the idea of freedom. They've come to the false conclusion that a slow, steady erosion of freedoms is a viable way to retain their lives. Would be funny if it weren't so damn pitiful.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 3:55:49 PM EDT
One more time for those who weren't paying attention: The 1994 AWB passed by a SINGLE vote in a DEMOCRATIC-controlled Congress.
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To be specific, in the Senate, the ban passed by several votes. In the House of Representatives, it passed by ONE vote. The tiebreaker was cast by then-Representative Tom Ridge, now in charge of the Office of Homeland Security. Just thought you should know. CJ
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 4:31:01 PM EDT
The article does seem to offer a glimmer of hope. It's still going to be a tough battle. As usual some guy will be standing before a Congressional hearing, telling the world how people like us butchered his family. It will be heartwrenching, nobody likes to hear about that kind of brutality. We'll have Feinstein waving an AK variant wildly in the air, comparing us to al Qaeda. The networks will be running "Columbine revisited". As usual, the media will go into some gun store and find some "locals" to present our side of the story. We've all seen this happen. Let's just say that we're not portrayed very well. The only people that seem to present our side well is the NRA. People listen to them, and politicians fear them. I know this topic has been beaten to death here lately ( I know, I've participated in it). What has the NRA done for us lately, they've sold us out, etc., etc., etc. Well, here in Il., I can't own full-auto, no CCW, I need a FOID card, and who knows what after Nov. But the NRA is still the best game in town. They're the only gun-group that the politicians will listen to. Join. Rejoin.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 5:40:59 PM EDT
Libs, c,mon! You can't possibly even think you have a prayer in the next election. Maybe you're concience is clear but your motives are a bit cloudy. No one your "party" has elected has a snowball's chance in hell of even being considered so what are you trying to say? Wake-up and smell the Bacardi. You guys are gonna get just what you deserve by voting for the Lib. Let the Democraps piss their votes away on Nader or some other retard. Let's get a Republican in there for us. At least he won't give our rights away without a fight.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 5:59:13 PM EDT
Man, I hope you guys are right about the ban sun-setting, I really, really do. I, personally, think you're wrong. When was the last time something as big as this was defeated? I think it was Prohibition, and it took 10 years of a lot more lobbying then we've done for the AWB. Once the Sheeple think they are safer; no way are they going to let GWB or Jesus Christ himself repeal "That bad Assault weapon thing". "No more of those bad 'automatic weapon -things'" Wait and see. The Democraps will milk this crap until every moron believes they are the "Second-Coming." Lord, I hope-not!
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 5:59:36 PM EDT
Just to add on to the above posting.... Libertarians and those with Libertarian leanings, (like me), don't waste your vote on a Libertarian candidate. They can't win, and every vote WILL count in the upcoming elections. Most certainly they will! Think about the dynamics of voting, and you will see that if you change your vote from, for example, democratic to republican, the democrat loses one potential vote AND the republican gains one. This is a spread of TWO points. If you don't vote at all, the spread is only ONE point. Get out there and vote, but make that vote count. Vote against the gun grabber, and that means vote not for the Libertarian or other secondary party, but vote for the gun grabber's opponent, who is probably a republican. You may despise all the candidates, but vote anyway. Vote against the one who'd grab your guns by voting for his major opponent. If you don't vote at all, it's almost as bad as voting for the enemy. CJ
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 6:18:44 PM EDT
Could'nt have said it better. And didn't! C'mon guys, let's get rid of these liberal yutz's once and for all! VOTE REPUBLICAN!
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 6:24:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GreenDragon: But the NRA is still the best game in town. They're the only gun-group that the politicians will listen to. Join. Rejoin.
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Nope. Not until they prove they are really going to work toward nixing a AWB renewal. The ringing in my ears is still their Alzheimer President telling the country how he hates assault weapons - and this is the organization that is going to wrest our SAR rights back? How do your behinds feel about now? Healing up nicely are they?
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 6:32:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 6:57:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2002 7:07:33 PM EDT by DJbump]
Originally Posted By cmjohnson: Vote against the gun grabber
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Exactly the point. Bush and Gore are BOTH gun grabbers. The only difference is that Gore/most democrats do the gun grabbing while leaving no doubt that they are our enemy. Bush Senior and Junior and other gun-grabbing republicans do it under the guise of being our friends. I don't want friends like that. You and others apparently do. Therein lies the difference between us.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 7:07:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kroagnon:
Originally Posted By GreenDragon: But the NRA is still the best game in town. They're the only gun-group that the politicians will listen to. Join. Rejoin.
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Nope. Not until they prove they are really going to work toward nixing a AWB renewal. The ringing in my ears is still their Alzheimer President telling the country how he hates assault weapons - and this is the organization that is going to wrest our SAR rights back? Okay, he never said that, but, you're going to do what? Wait for the rest of us to do it for you? Who in hell do you think the NRA is, anyway? A bunch of highly-paid dopes who are going to do your fighting for you? Wake-up! The NRA is ordinary guys like us who have had enough of the B.S. and are willing to fight for the 2nd ammendment. If it wasn't for the NRA, you do-nothings would have NO guns. How many letters have you written to your representatives in Washington? Do you even know who they are? Betcha don't! YOU, and sheep like you, are the reason we have this stupid "Assault Weapons Ban", whatever that is, because you did NOTHING to stop it. Over 200 million gun-owners in the United States and only 4 million in the NRA. You Should be ashamed of yourselves. You think WE should do it ALL for you? If we were all NRA members, how many anti-gun laws do you think would even be tabled? Lemme give you a tip---- NONE! Jesus, give me a break! Get off your ass and DO SOMETHING!
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 7:16:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 7:19:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DJbump:
Originally Posted By cmjohnson: Vote against the gun grabber
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Exactly the point. Bush and Gore are BOTH gun grabbers. The only difference is that Gore/most democrats do the gun grabbing while leaving no doubt that they are our enemy. Bush Senior and Junior and other gun-grabbing republicans do it under the guise of being our friends. I don't want friends like that. You and others apparently do. Therein lies the difference between us.
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Okay, what are you going to do about it, genius. Sit on you ass and complain? You've got the prize there! You've got an answer, we're listening?........................................................................................ Oh, okay, you just like to bitch and let everyone else do your work for you. That's just peachy. You actually believe there is no difference between ALGORE and GWB? Please, you can't possibly be that misinformed. Let's hear your brilliant resolution to the liberal BS problem, I mean specifically. What should we do?
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 7:25:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By Fly-n-hitch-hiker: Jesus, give me a break! Get off your ass and DO SOMETHING!
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He and others like him [b]ARE[/b] doing something--they're lobbing turds at those of us who shoulder the burden for them. Thanks a bunch, guys. [:(!]
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You're right, Bee. Those fair-weather gun-guys love to bitch, but rely on the rest of us to do something about it. Cripes, you don't have to be a Pullitzer Prize winner to send a bitch letter to your Senator or Congressman. Let 'em know how you feel, dammit!
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 7:26:36 PM EDT
Here is the vote count from the Senate for the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994. [url]http://www.senate.gov/legislative/vote1032/vote_00295.html#top[/url] Vote Counts: YEAs 61 NAYs 38 Not Voting 1 Grouped By Vote Position YEAs --- 61 Akaka (D-HI) Baucus (D-MT) Biden (D-DE) Bingaman (D-NM) Boren (D-OK) Boxer (D-CA) Bradley (D-NJ) Breaux (D-LA) Bryan (D-NV) Bumpers (D-AR) Byrd (D-WV) Campbell (D-CO) Chafee (R-RI) Cohen (R-ME) Conrad (D-ND) Danforth (R-MO) Daschle (D-SD) DeConcini (D-AZ) Dodd (D-CT) Dorgan (D-ND) Exon (D-NE) Feinstein (D-CA) Ford (D-KY) Glenn (D-OH) Graham (D-FL) Harkin (D-IA) Heflin (D-AL) Hollings (D-SC) Inouye (D-HI) Jeffords (R-VT) Johnston (D-LA) Kassebaum (R-KS) Kennedy (D-MA) Kerrey (D-NE) Kerry (D-MA) Kohl (D-WI) Lautenberg (D-NJ) Leahy (D-VT) Levin (D-MI) Lieberman (D-CT) Mathews (D-TN) Metzenbaum (D-OH) Mikulski (D-MD) Mitchell (D-ME) Moseley-Braun (D-IL) Moynihan (D-NY) Murray (D-WA) Nunn (D-GA) Pell (D-RI) Pryor (D-AR) Reid (D-NV) Riegle (D-MI) Robb (D-VA) Rockefeller (D-WV) Roth (R-DE) Sarbanes (D-MD) Sasser (D-TN) Simon (D-IL) Specter (R-PA) Wellstone (D-MN) Wofford (D-PA) NAYs --- 38 Bennett (R-UT) Bond (R-MO) Brown (R-CO) Burns (R-MT) Coats (R-IN) Cochran (R-MS) Coverdell (R-GA) Craig (R-ID) D'Amato (R-NY) Dole (R-KS) Domenici (R-NM) Durenberger (R-MN) Faircloth (R-NC) Feingold (D-WI) Gorton (R-WA) Gramm (R-TX) Grassley (R-IA) Gregg (R-NH) Hatch (R-UT) Hatfield (R-OR) Helms (R-NC) Hutchison (R-TX) Kempthorne (R-ID) Lott (R-MS) Lugar (R-IN) Mack (R-FL) McCain (R-AZ) McConnell (R-KY) Murkowski (R-AK) Nickles (R-OK) Packwood (R-OR) Pressler (R-SD) Shelby (D-AL) Simpson (R-WY) Smith (R-NH) Stevens (R-AK) Thurmond (R-SC) Warner (R-VA) Not Voting --- 1 Wallop (R-WY)
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 7:27:34 PM EDT
After the 1994 vote, gun ownership advocates exacted revenge at the ballot box, ousting several members of Congress who had voted for the ban.
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[frag]
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 7:51:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2002 8:06:45 PM EDT by DJbump]
Originally Posted By Fly-n-hitch-hiker: You actually believe there is no difference between ALGORE and GWB? Let's hear your brilliant resolution to the liberal BS problem, I mean specifically. What should we do?
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Both Bush and Gore violate our god-given rights, so yes, they are the same. As to the solution? At this advanced stage in the game, I feel extreme measures are warranted. If a politician has willingly, knowingly violated our god-given rights through legislation and other means, we afford them the chance to see the light and get back within constitutional bounds. If they continue to violate our god-given rights, we violate theirs by putting a bullet in their brain. And despite your assumption that I don't do anything, you're wrong. I vote my principles, I write letters to my congress-critters and representatives, just to name a few things, to no avail. (Please, Ron Paul run for President) We've lost the force, and as a result the politicians do whatever they want because they know we won't do anything about it. What force you ask? "...Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." - Patrick Henry, June 5, 1788
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 8:16:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2002 8:18:14 PM EDT by MaverickMkii]
Thanks Maud_Dib, for the list. Well I thought DE was part of those "pro-gun states" because we don't have much of crap gun laws here except CLASS 3 is not allowed. Guess not...? Both of em voted for YAYs? Shame on them Anyway, Joining NRA does help us than doing nothing... although the majority of NRA people are like us, some of them are quite big figures as you know already. I'm still in the process of getting permenant residence status in U.S (only several months to go [:)]) and I just joined NRA via online. Who cares? I love guns, and I'm gonna support them with my money. Now I whoreheartly understand why the range master at our private range recommended me to join NRA immediately. PS. Out of topic but how long does it take for NRA to accept my application sent via online?
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 8:19:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DJbump:
Originally Posted By Fly-n-hitch-hiker: You actually believe there is no difference between ALGORE and GWB? Let's hear your brilliant resolution to the liberal BS problem, I mean specifically. What should we do?
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Both Bush and Gore violate our god-given rights, so yes, they are the same. As to the solution? At this advanced stage in the game, I feel extreme measures are warranted. If a politician has willingly, knowingly violated our god-given rights through legislation and other means, we afford them the chance to see the light and get back within constitutional bounds. If they continue to violate our god-given rights, we violate theirs by putting a bullet in their brain. And despite your assumption that I don't do anything, you're wrong. I vote my principles, I write letters to my congress-critters and representatives, just to name a few things, to no avail. (Please, Ron Paul run for President) We've lost the force, and as a result the politicians do whatever they want because they know we won't do anything about it. What force you ask? "...Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." - Patrick Henry, June 5, 1788
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So Bush and AlGore are the same, gunwise???? How in hell do you figure that? I think you've been listening to Peter Jennings and some other Canadians. Buddy, start reading something other than the Demacrapic Underground Review. Do you realy think the Republicans are after your gun rights? C'mon. name one instance where the Repub's have tried to destroy your 2nd ammendment rights. I mean specifically.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 8:25:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MaverickMkii: Thanks Maud_Dib, for the list. Well I thought DE was part of those "pro-gun states" because we don't have much of crap gun laws here except CLASS 3 is not allowed. Guess not...? Both of em voted for YAYs? Shame on them Anyway, Joining NRA does help us than doing nothing... although the majority of NRA people are like us, some of them are quite big figures as you know already. I'm still in the process of getting permenant residence status in U.S (only several months to go [:)]) and I just joined NRA via online. Who cares? I love guns, and I'm gonna support them with my money. Now I whoreheartly understand why the range master at our private range recommended me to join NRA immediately. PS. Out of topic but how long does it take for NRA to accept my application sent via online?
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I dunno. Maybe you should have thought about that 10 years ago when you had the chance to make a difference.
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 8:31:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DJbump:
Originally Posted By Fly-n-hitch-hiker: You actually believe there is no difference between ALGORE and GWB? Let's hear your brilliant resolution to the liberal BS problem, I mean specifically. What should we do?
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Both Bush and Gore violate our god-given rights, so yes, they are the same. As to the solution? At this advanced stage in the game, I feel extreme measures are warranted. If a politician has willingly, knowingly violated our god-given rights through legislation and other means, we afford them the chance to see the light and get back within constitutional bounds. If they continue to violate our god-given rights, we violate theirs by putting a bullet in their brain. And despite your assumption that I don't do anything, you're wrong. I vote my principles, I write letters to my congress-critters and representatives, just to name a few things, to no avail. (Please, Ron Paul run for President) We've lost the force, and as a result the politicians do whatever they want because they know we won't do anything about it. What force you ask? "...Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." - Patrick Henry, June 5, 1788
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Okay, Let's pretend that principles don't mean shit. So 2nd ammendment crap doesn't mean shit. So your right to free speech doesn't mean shit. Well why don't you go back to the low-life country that you came from. I'm sure, you'll feel much, much better!
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 8:35:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 8:45:48 PM EDT
Man, I've travelled all over the world in the last 37 years. Do you think any country has it any better than this teriffic splot of land? Lemme clue you.......NO ONE has it better than even the poorest american piece of trash. NO ONE!!!!!!!!!! Check out England, Switzerland, Austria, France, Italy, or any of the USA wanna-be's. These people would give their left nut to be an American. No shit. 5 days over there, You'll kill for a Chilli's Burger! Really. Europe's nice, but it needs paint----bad. Not saying you won't like it. But it ain't the USA!
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 9:11:09 PM EDT
Um, before you dig him you might want to read the part I made red. This gentleman is not even a U.S. citizen, but he is putting his $35.00 where his mouth is--to his great credit. Thank you, MaverickMkii, and welcome to America. We need more like you, as you can see from this thread. So many don't understand the concept of liberty. Again, thanks!! Not only don't understand it I don't accept it. What in hell do these yutz's understand about the USA? Try comin' over here and havin a whale of a good time instead of being the tight-assed yo-yo's that you pretend to be and have a great time!!!
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 9:22:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2002 9:25:54 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
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