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Posted: 9/19/2002 4:04:44 AM EDT
By Pierre Thomas [url=http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/moreterror020918.html]ABC News[/url] WASHINGTON, Sept. 18 — The FBI sent a notice to thousands of law enforcement officers today, warning them that terrorists may be developing a new way to hijack passenger jets, government sources told ABCNEWS. The agency also is concerned that the al Qaeda terror network is searching for new ways to sneak explosives on planes — explosives that cannot be detected. Law enforcement sources emphasized the al Qaeda discussions took place before last year's Sept 11 attacks, and that there is no information indicating current, ongoing planning. In today's weekly Intelligence bulletin, distributed to 18,000 law enforcement agencies around the country, the FBI warns that al Qaeda members have discussed "hijacking a commercial airliner using Muslim extremists of non-Arabic appearance" to slip past security. Today's bulletin is based on interrogation of an al Qaeda member in detention. "This is a very smart bunch of people and they definitely think of all the angles," said Robert Blitzer, former FBI chief of the Domestic Terrorism/Counterterrorism Planning Section. "They are very creative. Just look at how well they hid themselves here in the U.S. prior to the Sept 11 attacks." Sneaking Explosives Onto Planes The discussions involved using 10 to 20 "Chechen Muslims affiliated with al Qaeda, but already present in the United States" to overwhelm the crew after taking seats in first class, according to the FBI bulletin. Other discussions called for sneaking liquid explosives mixed with coffee and brought onto the plane in carry-on bags. Aviation sources said current airport technology would not detect such explosives. Even though the al Qaeda plans were developed before Sept. 11, sources say, given al Qaeda's tendency toward long term planning, there is reason for concern. "Al Qaeda does plan years in advance and we've seen this over and over again," said Blitzer. "[V]ery, very long planning cycles some times up to two-three years."
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 6:17:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2002 6:24:45 AM EDT by LWilde]
Airport security remains a joke here. It's about time we begin checking pax like the Israelis do. Open and inspect bags. Ask personal questions. Profile every suspicious person...not some 80 year old CMH awardee with a wooden leg! A verbal exchange between a smart, knowledgeable and dedicated screener will often times yeild great clues as to who the potential hijackers are. Consider the scenario where a Chechen hijacker wants to board a plane. He has liquid explosive in coffee thermos. His papers are in order (DL/ID/SS card/passport). He speaks passable English. His passport says he is from the former SSR of Georgia, since to declare himself as a Chechen would automatically put him on the watch list. Maybe he's an American citizen now. Fine...we can deal with that too. To defeat this turd, we must do an open and inspect all of his carry-on bags. Do that and he's toast. Having a thermos should be a HOT clue that something is amiss. We must examine the liquid. Is it coffee? It LOOKS like coffee...how about a simple test or two? His language profile would be another. We MUST have screeners who are educated enough to recognize these types of people. The puppies should be used on ALL carry on bags. I think it would be a virtual impossibility for any terrorist to create even a "liquid" bomb using say...nitroglycerin that a good pooch would not quickly alert on. I think a detailed verbal check would also find him out fairly quickly. A detailed inspection would find this dude out. As to the "gang" of Chechens who want to fly in First? Well, if I'm the airline ticketing/check-in staff and screeners, I'm watching out for just this scenario and I'm making sure that a "gang" doesn't get the chance to all fly on the same flight. How much of a crew would it take to overwhelm a flight crew? Regardless, I would also ensure that the doors to the flight deck remain stout as they are supposed to be now, and I would ARM the pilots. It's not just x-raying and a cursory check. It MUST be a DETAILED exam of every passenger, with SPECIAL attention paid to potential terrorists. Sorry if that offends some of you, but that is the only way to ensure success. Sadly, since we live in a society where PC bullshit is more important that ensuring flight safety, we will remain at risk. Profiling, inspecting, searching, sniffing, asking, and REJECTING if necessary...THAT is the ONLY way we will be safe. Anybody know when the last El Al plane was 'jacked? Fly safe!
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 6:35:44 AM EDT
It will never work. The artical says that the plan calls for using a person who does not look like an Arab extremist. They only check people who fit that description! They'll get them for sure...........;-)
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 6:56:14 AM EDT
Post from LWilde -
Anybody know when the last El Al plane was 'jacked?
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The one and only 'successful' hijacking of an El Al jetliner occurred on 07/22/1968. This El Al flight was hijacked by the PFLP(Popular Front for the Liberation Palestine) en route from Rome to Tel Aviv and forced it to land in Algiers. The attack marked the first aircraft hijacking by a Palestinian group. [b]The hijackers were said to have believed Israeli General Ariel Sharon was on the flight[/b]. The passengers and crew were detained by Algeria for six weeks! There have been several other attempts, all of which have failed. Eric The(Thankful)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 6:57:38 AM EDT
We'll never be able to stop a determined terrorist from hijacking a plane as long as we, as a nation, are as afraid to offend anyone as we are now. God forbid we actually engage in a little profiling. No, gotta treat everyone the same, check every 5th passenger, so while you're checking my pregnant wife (really) the three Arab guys travelling together don't get a second look. This country is going to politically-correct itself to death.
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 7:17:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2002 8:21:43 AM EDT by LWilde]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Post from LWilde -
Anybody know when the last El Al plane was 'jacked?
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The one and only 'successful' hijacking of an El Al jetliner occurred on 07/22/1968. This El Al flight was hijacked by the PFLP(Popular Front for the Liberation Palestine) en route from Rome to Tel Aviv and forced it to land in Algiers. The attack marked the first aircraft hijacking by a Palestinian group. [b]The hijackers were said to have believed Israeli General Ariel Sharon was on the flight[/b]. The passengers and crew were detained by Algeria for six weeks! There have been several other attempts, all of which have failed. Eric The(Thankful)Hun[>]:)]
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Hun...I KNEW you would know! As you probably already have guessed, my question was aimed [rhetorically?] at our fellow travelers. You helped make my point perfectly: Until WE begin to check pax like the Israelis do...we're at risk. Not as bad as we once were...but we still are...and that is unacceptable. PROFILING DAMMIT! That is the ONLY way. I don't give a rat's ass if some totally innocent, full blooded American Muslim pax gets all irate for getting the 3rd degree. So sorrrryyyy! That's just the way it is boyz and girlz. Until we get nasty at the airports...we are at risk.
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 7:42:10 AM EDT
I just came back from a vacation in the Keys, had to fly from Austin to Houston to Miami and return. You are not only searched at the security point, but also at the gate itself. Being at the end of the line, I followed the process with great interest, picking who I would search vs who they actually picked. I picked 7 people, all male, including myself. None were chosen. the people they did chose, were 4 German nurses and a couple of older 60+ men. As near as I could tell, the main search criteria consisted of anyone with a alien passport, or large breasts. Now, I'm not against large breasts, but I really doubt the effectiveness of their technique in this instance. The bright side of it is that it was a great ice breaker during the flight, and led to an even better dive and fishing trip than I thought. I never expected German ladies to have such nice tans. [:D]
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 2:32:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2002 2:33:14 PM EDT by Fingers]
The main criteria for getting searched at the gate is being in line when they finish checking the last person. They have to be constantly checking someone. So don't be in a big hurry to be the first in line and don't be next when the screeners finish everyone they are checking. The idea that its a random check is pretty much BS. The idea of smuggling explosives on has been around since the early 90's at least. They tested it out in Asia and killed a Japanese guy sitting on the seat the device was placed under. That was just a trial run to see if the concept worked. It did. They intended to use it on a massive scale on a bunch of 747's coming back to the US from Asia. The plan was discovered by accident when the scumbag leader's (Ramsi Yousef, I believe) apartment caught on fire in the Philipines. The authorities there searched the place and found his notes and computer files describing what there were going to do. I sort of surprised they haven't used this since 9/11.
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 2:36:37 PM EDT
that gives me an idea, plastic explosive buttock implants
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 5:52:02 PM EDT
I’ve said it before; I’ll say it again. Profiling will make it [b]easier[/b] for terrorists to hijack a plane. Profiling just gives the terrorists something they can turn to their own advantage by using individuals who don’t meet the profile. The real appeal of profiling is that those who don’t meet the profile think that it solves the problem without any real inconvenience to themselves. We are dealing with a very smart, creative and patient enemy. Sure, we get better over time, but so do they. Using techniques that might have worked on 9/11/01 isn’t good enough – that particular train has long since left the station! We need to quit trying to play catch up with the terrorists; rather, we need to get ahead of them. To do this for real is going to greatly inconvenience all of us! Thinking we can accomplish this while putting most of the burden on someone else is foolish!
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 5:55:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 199: I’ve said it before; I’ll say it again. Profiling will make it [b]easier[/b] for terrorists to hijack a plane. Profiling just gives the terrorists something they can turn to their own advantage by using individuals who don’t meet the profile. The real appeal of profiling is that those who don’t meet the profile think that it solves the problem without any real inconvenience to themselves. We are dealing with a very smart, creative and patient enemy. Sure, we get better over time, but so do they. Using techniques that might have worked on 9/11/01 isn’t good enough – that particular train has long since left the station! We need to quit trying to play catch up with the terrorists; rather, we need to get ahead of them. To do this for real is going to greatly inconvenience all of us! Thinking we can accomplish this while putting most of the burden on someone else is foolish!
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it takes a "unique" kind of mind to want to blow your self up to get at your enimies i doubt there are so many not fitting the profile who are willing to step up to the plate
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 6:10:15 PM EDT
Well we sould ask isreal what they do. Im no big promoter of isreal but fact is they have been living with constant threat of terror alot longer that we have. And I dont care If you have to spend thenight at the airport to get through security. If it means that I live through the flight then it works. People soon wont see the need for extra security because an hijacking dont happen in X amount of time to me that means something is working and someone somewhere is looking to defete it. I think the "new security" is made to get people to fly not to actually secure anything. Im not flying anytime soon. Ill take Amtrak (are they doing anymore security at Amtrak????
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 7:59:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1_153_370_371_407: it takes a "unique" kind of mind to want to blow your self up to get at your enimies i doubt there are so many not fitting the profile who are willing to step up to the plate
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Definitely agree! However, it would only take one Mike Walker to bring down an entire 747. Also, there are really several different issues here. First are suicide missions such as occurred 9/11. These certainly take fanatics. Another issue is a simple hijacking (without the suicide part). These would take less fanatical participants. Yet another issue, which I think is easiest to carry out and thus the most likely, is simply getting a bomb on a plane. There are all sorts of variations on this. Convince a non-terrorist looking person to carry weapons on board, which are then given to terrorist-looking passengers who have been closely scrutinized at the gate. Convince a non-terrorist looking person to carry a bomb on board (or in their luggage) with an appropriate cover story - which, of course, has been done. The person, for example, could be told that they are carrying a large quantity of illegal drugs, when in reality it is a bomb intended to kill everyone on the plane including that person. There are plenty of stupid and/or greedy non-terrorist looking people in this country that could be duped into such roles. Profiling would simply create security weak points for these people to go through. While we damn sure don’t have to admire our enemies, we’d better develop a respect for their ingenuity – or we will once again pay dearly!
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 8:05:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 199:
Originally Posted By 1_153_370_371_407: it takes a "unique" kind of mind to want to blow your self up to get at your enimies i doubt there are so many not fitting the profile who are willing to step up to the plate
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Definitely agree! However, it would only take one Mike Walker to bring down an entire 747. Also, there are really several different issues here. First are suicide missions such as occurred 9/11. These certainly take fanatics. Another issue is a simple hijacking (without the suicide part). These would take less fanatical participants. Yet another issue, which I think is easiest to carry out and thus the most likely, is simply getting a bomb on a plane. There are all sorts of variations on this. Convince a non-terrorist looking person to carry weapons on board, which are then given to terrorist-looking passengers who have been closely scrutinized at the gate. Convince a non-terrorist looking person to carry a bomb on board (or in their luggage) with an appropriate cover story - which, of course, has been done. The person, for example, could be told that they are carrying a large quantity of illegal drugs, when in reality it is a bomb intended to kill everyone on the plane including that person. There are plenty of stupid and/or greedy non-terrorist looking people in this country that could be duped into such roles. Profiling would simply create security weak points for these people to go through. While we damn sure don’t have to admire our enemies, we’d better develop a respect for their ingenuity – or we will once again pay dearly!
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agreed money will get them all the volunteers they need for "missions" that don't require suicide and these bastards seem to have plenty of money (thank you saudis)
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 8:33:24 PM EDT
money will get them all the volunteers they need for "missions" that don't require suicide
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...and deception will get them volunteers for the suicide missions. Reportedly, only a few of the 7/11 hijackers knew that they were on suicide missions when they boarded the planes.
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 8:40:31 PM EDT
I must warn them of my new tactics! 1.If i see a "raggie" acting nervous and suspicious, I will clear the holster! 2. If he looks as if he is about to take action, I will shoot,Shoot Straight, and shoot often until sure the goblin and all associate goblins have begun "assuming ambient temperature!"
Link Posted: 9/20/2002 6:03:10 AM EDT
Yo Eric! I was under the impression (perhaps mistaken) that the last time El-Al was hijacked was back in 1976, resulting in the Entebbe raid. Please enlighten me...
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