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Posted: 9/14/2002 11:27:25 AM EDT
I know that technically, the militia is comprised of everyone, but does anyone know if any organized militia groups still exist? I remember back in the early 90's they used to show militia groups training on the news, the Michigan militia getting the most publicity. Do any of these groups still assemble and train, or was this just some fad or sign of the times (Klinton regime)? Other than prepare for invasion, foriegn or domestic, do they serve any other purpose, like regional disaster relief or volunteer civic duties?
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 11:31:53 AM EDT
As far as organized militias go, I don't think there are a whole lot of folks in them that publically acknowledge their membership, d/t the "domestic terrorism" stuff after OKC. I think I heard of a few that became affiliated with ESDA/Civil Defense for disaster relief and search parties, etc, but that was a few years ago. Tango7
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 11:32:27 AM EDT
One I know for sure of is the Maryland Defense Force. Do a Google search on it.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 11:44:29 AM EDT
Currently the United States Code recognizes only three types of militia: 1) National Guard 2) Naval Militia 3) all male citizens aged 18-45. United States Code: TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > Sec. 311. "311. MILITIA: COMPOSITION AND CLASSES (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are-- (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia." Source: [url=http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.html]Cornell University, US Code[/url]
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 12:07:58 PM EDT
Some states have sanctioned "State Guard" or militia type units that train and are designated to fill in when the NG gets activated for civil disorder and disaster relief. There is a decent amount of historical stuff about the Texas State Guard and how they were activated during WWII to handle security, coastal defense and later to put down some riots and labor disputes. As far as the various militia groups that were popping up during the early 90s, most current "militias" consist of one or two people. Many of the larger groups were deliberately targeted and co-opted by the White Supremacist movement, as part of a very deliberate, planned strategy on thier part. This turned a alot of normal gun-owners off on the concept. The non WS-types mostly drifted away, and the fellow travelers migrated to the WS movement.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 12:13:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Moondog: I know that technically, the militia is comprised of everyone, [b]but does anyone know if any organized militia groups still exist?[/b] I remember back in the early 90's they used to show militia groups training on the news, the Michigan militia getting the most publicity. Do any of these groups still assemble and train, or was this just some fad or sign of the times (Klinton regime)? Other than prepare for invasion, foriegn or domestic, do they serve any other purpose, like regional disaster relief or volunteer civic duties?
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[url]http://www.splcenter.org/intelligenceproject/ip-index.html[/url] [i]The Intelligence Project identified 158 “Patriot” groups that were active in 2001. Of these groups, 73 were militias, two were “common-law courts,” and the remainder fit into a variety of categories such as publishers, ministries, and citizens' groups. Generally, Patriot groups define themselves as opposed to the “New World Order” or advocate or adhere to extreme antigovernment doctrines. Listing here does not imply that the groups themselves advocate or engage in violence or other criminal activities, or are racist. The list was compiled from field reports, Patriot publications, the Internet, law enforcement sources and news reports. Groups are identified by the city, county or region where they are located. Within states, groups are listed alphabetically by place of origin.[/i]
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 12:23:02 PM EDT
I don't know where you are at in Michigan but the Wayne County Wolverines are relatively organized. Though it does have the militia title on it, it is more of a self defense and survivalist training group from what I have read. lot of good info here: [url]www.michiganmilitia.com[/url] PS I am not active in any militia but have several friends who are. And no, I am not white trash Keving67
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 12:48:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 12:51:36 PM EDT
Back in the early ninties I purchased a lot of tapes about militias, mostly Mark of Michigan (miltia). The last time I remember hearing or seeing anything about him was at a survival show that he attended here in Dallas. Shortly after that he was investigated for the OKC debacle and I never heard of him again.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 12:56:44 PM EDT
I think there are many militia groups still around and active. They range from good folks like you and I who are protective of liberty and family to out and out whackos. Unfortunately, it is only the out and out whackos that get any attention whatsoever. Hasn't been much in the news lately. Any militia group would wisely be keeping a low profile right now since they could instantly be branded terrorists by the homeland security police state. I have zero problem with well intentioned liberty minded milita groups, hell it's more of a social gathering I think than anything else and they can, and indeed have helped in the past in times of disaster etc., and they are a great force for liberty. Unfortunately they are often tainted by the idiot whacko groups that are out there and get the press. Which is why the word "militia" is so looked down upon in our society. I personally have never been a member of any organized militia, but given the right group of folks would not necessarily be against it. Right now I know that I am a member of the united States of America (notice small "u") unorganized militia, being an able bodied male between the ages of 17 and 45, and that's good for me. Mike
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 1:13:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Moondog: I know that technically, the militia is comprised of everyone, but does anyone know if any organized militia groups still exist?
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Yep!
I remember back in the early 90's they used to show militia groups training on the news, the Michigan militia getting the most publicity. Do any of these groups still assemble and train,
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Yep again!
or was this just some fad or sign of the times (Klinton regime)?
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Nope!
Other than prepare for invasion, foriegn or domestic, do they serve any other purpose, like regional disaster relief or volunteer civic duties?
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Yep to all the above.....
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 1:18:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Big_Bear:
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: Currently the United States Code recognizes only three types of militia: 1) National Guard 2) Naval Militia 3) all male citizens aged 18-45. ...except as provided in section 313 of title 32...
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FYI, Title 32, Section 313 extends the age to 64 for [i]"a former member of the Regular Army, Regular Navy, Regular Air Force, or Regular Marine Corps."[/i] Source: [url=http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/32/313.html]Cornell University, US Code[/url]
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Thanks bear, that puts me back in the game....
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 1:23:57 PM EDT
Be wary of 'private' Militias, sine they dont answer to the Govenor of their State they could theoretically be considered to be in 'insurrection' and have to be 'suppressed'. But Alot of States have 'state guards' or such that are state controlled militias in addition to the National Guard, which using Constitutional definitions is no longer a 'State' militia, regardless of what the US code says.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 1:30:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 1:46:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DefMan: [url]http://www.splcenter.org/intelligenceproject/ip-index.html[/url]
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HAHA! Using southern perversion...er...poverty law center/adl for militia information is like using HCI/VPC for firearms information. By the way, splc REFUSED to represent the surviving Davidians because mo dees claimed they were a right wing white supremacist group. Gee, I guess Koresh's second in command, Wayne Martin hated himself.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 1:53:03 PM EDT
Well, they had 2001 figures so I thought it might be helpful info. I'm never a fan of the splc. I've always wondered why they say they fight for minorities and are mostly run by white men. I'm guessing they're in it for the profits?
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 1:56:26 PM EDT
The SPLC also lists jewish gun-rights activists as being 'anti-semitic'. They are fucking idiots.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 2:12:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DefMan: Well, they had 2001 figures so I thought it might be helpful info. I'm never a fan of the splc. I've always wondered why they say they fight for minorities and are mostly run by white men. I'm guessing they're in it for the profits?
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SPLC has over $85 mill just sitting in the bank and brags that it is pushing for $100 mill. With all of the scare letters they send out for fundraising you have to wonder when or if people who donate are ever going to catch on to the rip-off scheme. Most militias are now going into cells, due to the high profile busts of the more public organizations. Every single one of them were brought down by an agent provocateur, which is why most militias only admit new members who are close friends.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 2:23:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By Big_Bear:
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: Currently the United States Code recognizes only three types of militia: 1) National Guard 2) Naval Militia 3) all male citizens aged 18-45. ...except as provided in section 313 of title 32...
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FYI, Title 32, Section 313 extends the age to 64 for [i]"a former member of the Regular Army, Regular Navy, Regular Air Force, or Regular Marine Corps."[/i] Source: [url=http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/32/313.html]Cornell University, US Code[/url]
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Thanks bear, that puts me back in the game....
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Yep, me too.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 3:14:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 4:01:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 6:21:46 PM EDT
Also believe most "unorganized" militias that train have gone to cells due to the language in the "anti-terrorism" legislation signed by Klinton post OKC/Waco/RubyRidge. Basically, if you get together in a group, and talk about overthrowing the government, you're a terrorist group and can be nailed by the feds through the "usual" means... [s]theft[/s]asset forfeiture without trial, [s]unlawful destruction[/s] seizure of your data storage (books and photos, not just computers)with "accidental" damage if you're acquitted, [s]slander and libel[/s] a "thorough" investigation by the feds by calling [s]everybody in your neighborhood and employment circles[/s] persons of reference and inquiring into [s]your right-wing-paranoid[/s] any possibly unusual habits or activities. Tango7
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 6:42:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TomJefferson: Tennesee has a state sponsored milia that answers to the Governor. Uniforms but no guns, they are a real bunch of good guys. Most all are ex-military with a high percentage of medical MOS. Their job is to help in emergencies such as floods, fires, and tornados.
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Tom, Are you talking about the TN State Guard, or some other organization?
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 10:50:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JFP: Back in the early ninties I purchased a lot of tapes about militias, mostly Mark of Michigan (miltia). The last time I remember hearing or seeing anything about him was at a survival show that he attended here in Dallas. Shortly after that he was investigated for the OKC debacle and I never heard of him again.
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Mark Koernke is currently doing time, courtesy of the Federal Government, and the State of Michigan. Bill
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 10:52:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2002 11:07:40 PM EDT by heliflyer]
Originally Posted By Moondog: I know that technically, the militia is comprised of everyone, but does anyone know if any organized militia groups still exist?
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Do an Internet search, using the word "Militia." You will be surprised what you will find. Search using: "A Well Regulated Militia," and see what you read. Also, do a search using the words, "Patriot," or "Survivalist." Bill
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 10:58:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Originally Posted By DefMan: [url]http://www.splcenter.org/intelligenceproject/ip-index.html[/url]
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HAHA! Using southern perversion...er...poverty law center/adl for militia information is like using HCI/VPC for firearms information. By the way, splc REFUSED to represent the surviving Davidians because mo dees claimed they were a right wing white supremacist group. Gee, I guess Koresh's second in command, Wayne Martin hated himself.
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Morris Dees, does the same thing that Jesse Jackson does. They milk everybody they can. The "Southern Poverty Law Center," is like Jacksons "Rainbow Coalition" -- A cash cow for the the organizer. Bill
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 10:58:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2002 11:01:48 PM EDT by KEA]
Just to add a couple - montana has one [url]http://www.militiaofmontana.com/[/url]; so does Mississippi - but its website is not [url]http://www.yodaddy.com/militia/[/url] which I think [b]ya'all[/b] will like!.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 11:29:29 PM EDT
As a non-commissioned officer you have a six year obligation to your country,you can serve it anyway you and the Gov feels fit! As an officer you will take on a twenty year obligation to serve anyway you and your country feels fit! But you raised your right arm and took an oath! That oath is then and now just as important as the day you took it! So yes we are all as Americans Militia,but more important those of us that actually served are still part of that Military that we took the oath to! Never let it be said that we did more,or less than anybody serving at this time,but at long as we still draw a breath we are part of this countries armies! As my great grandfather was and my father was,and my brothers were yes we are part of the American Militia. Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 4:41:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 4:45:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Originally Posted By DefMan: [url]http://www.splcenter.org/intelligenceproject/ip-index.html[/url]
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HAHA! Using southern perversion...er...poverty law center/adl for militia information is like using HCI/VPC for firearms information. By the way, splc REFUSED to represent the surviving Davidians because mo dees claimed they were a right wing white supremacist group. Gee, I guess Koresh's second in command, Wayne Martin hated himself.
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I was [i]very[/i] surprised to learn that RI has its very own Skinhead hate group, Never heard of 'em in the papers, TV, Radio, or by word of mouth. And I follow all local media closely. Hmmmmmmmmm...
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raf, sorry to inform you about R.I.'s own Skinhead hate group but this group heaequarters out of Newport. Lots of them own yachts !!
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 4:48:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2002 5:10:41 AM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 4:49:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: [i]That[/i] bit of info doesn't surprise mi in the least. After all, damn near all yachts are white, don't you know? [:D]
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YUP !!
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 5:21:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 5:21:33 AM EDT
I have always wondered if such places like Thunder Ranch in central Texas was once the training/meeting/playing ground for for "Militias". After recieving all the bad pub they decided to change to something slightly more media friendly, such as training individuals in home and personal defense, rather than groups of people that could be easily thought of as a terror group/cell. On a side note, I used to practice Tae Kwon Do and the creepy guy that owned the school and taught the class was much like the DI's I had in the Boot camp in the '70's. I often got the feeling he was trying to train his own "army" due to the way he would be real hard on us and he always tried to make us work as a group. i know, I'm probably full of it but at the time I really had a strong impression being in a military organization.
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 8:11:32 AM EDT
Thanks everyone for your input and information. My questions arose when I was sorting through some old stuff I had in my basement. Years ago ('92-'94) I remember when one of the local surplus stores would always be out of MRE's, chem suits, and web gear because "the militia bought them up." As toward my question regarding regional civic duties and disaster relief, I was thinking a group with training and organisation skills can make a positive contribution that can also provide positive recognition, and real-life operating experience. I have also heard of the Ohio Naval militia, and how they have assisted government agencies. It does make sense that while some groups still keep theirselves publicized, others have gone underground because of OKC and laws regarding domestic terrorism. Again, thanks everyone for your input. It has helped to kill time on a rainy day.
Link Posted: 9/17/2002 3:25:06 AM EDT
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