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Posted: 9/14/2002 10:41:15 AM EDT
For lunch yesterday, a bunch of guys from the office decided to head up to Little Italy for the San Genero (sp?) feast. While we were talking from Canal St. we saw the ESU and bomb dogs walking the street with full gear (helmet, grenades, auto rifles, BPV's, etc.) Anyway, what's bothering me is that of the 7 guys I saw, 3 were carrying Mini-14's with collapsable stocks! MINI 14'S????? I laughed as I passed them. Oh yeah, one of these guys was walking with his rifle unslung and he was carrying it by the pistol grip with his finger on the trigger! I was laughing at the rifle until I saw his finger. Anyone know why they use this POS?
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 10:56:48 AM EDT
(With all due respect): Maybe it cause they's from New Yawk and don't knows no better. [:D]
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 11:23:30 AM EDT
IIRC, according to Waverunner, our resident NYPD officer, they have used Mini-14's for some time. They recently started to upgrade to an AR of some sort, I believe Bushies. He posted a pic of the NYPD Bushmaster, they are engraved. I would guess that Mini's are cheap and there is your answer. However, as litigation became more common, the ability to hit something has become more important to the bean counters.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 11:37:47 AM EDT
It is my understanding that they chose the Mini 14 because it does not appear to be an AW . They figured the AR would cause more problems being that it is more reconizable as a military weapon and would be perceived as a threat to the citizens of NYC . It is a shame that law enforcement is under equipped do to antigun beliefs.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 11:45:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 11:58:33 AM EDT
The Ruger mini-14 has two versions made for military use, and the AC 556 (the shortened, select fire, folding stock version) is a good weapon. As for that matter, the mini-14 in its civilian mode is still a good rifle and easy to upgrade for police/combat work. Hi-cap mags are available, as are flash suppressors and other gear. The rifle is light, reliable, and accurate. Sounds very suitable for police work. As for the moron with the finger on the trigger...
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 12:02:30 PM EDT
Ok i'll probably get flamed for this but why is the Mini-14 a POS? I think a lot of folks disliked Ruger (justly so) and pass on their hate for him to his rifle. I've owned several through the years and have yet to see one that was a POS. My first rifle was a Mini-14 gb. I treated it like shit, i can't even remember ever cleaning it, but it would still shoot all day long without a hiccup. Inaccurate? Yes. Finicky about mags? Yes. A POS? No.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 12:43:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Diesel: Inaccurate? Yes. Finicky about mags? Yes. A POS? No.
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I have to agree with Diesel, I feel the Mini-14 is indeed a decent rifle but I recently sold my last one and am all AR now due to the buildability of the AR. I kinda hated to see the old mini go, I'd had it for more than ten years and had it tricked out nicely but I decided to simplfy myk stock.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 12:52:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JFP:
Originally Posted By Diesel: Inaccurate? Yes. Finicky about mags? Yes. A POS? No.
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I have to agree with Diesel, I feel the Mini-14 is indeed a decent rifle but I recently sold my last one and am all AR now due to the buildability of the AR. I kinda hated to see the old mini go, I'd had it for more than ten years and had it tricked out nicely but I decided to simplfy myk stock.
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James Sullivan designed the Mini-14 for Ruger. (Sullivan and Fremont designed the AR-15 at ArmaLite). Ruger then put about an $8.00 barrel on the weapon insuring sorry accuracy. Good design and good action and can be made to shoot accurately.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 1:02:22 PM EDT
POS? Absolutely! I've never shot a rifle that made me look bad, but this one did it! My best group on a NIB Mini14 was 2" from a bench rest. Worst from an AR15 was about the same. Both had the same scope, but the Ruger was eating match ammo, while the AR was eating SA. In an urban environment, accuracy is everything. A miss of your intended target doesn't neccessarily mean a total miss of everything in the area. Big deal, the Ruger has hi-caps and a folder, so does the AR and you can be damn sure that the AR will feed, fire and hit ten times out of ten. When you apply the POS analysis, F/F+H, make sure you're thinking about the rifle being in your hands ready to kill bad guys, not a pleasant day at the range! I'd be scared shitless in a hostage situation with a PO using this thing to take out a BG. Oh yeah, the other guys had MP5's. I buy the "PC" factor as being the over riding reason. It makes much more sense, especially since they all had wood stocks.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 1:30:53 PM EDT
About 10 or so years ago, an NYPD rifleman ended a standoff incident by shooting a pistol out of the suspect's hand & I'm 99% sure it was with a Mini-14 from some distance. It's been so long that I don't remember all the details, but maybe Waverunner knows more about it? I remember watching the video when it happened.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 1:43:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Balzac72: Oh yeah, one of these guys was walking with his rifle unslung and he was carrying it by the pistol grip with his finger on the trigger! I was laughing at the rifle until I saw his finger.
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You should have jumped his shit.....if he's that ill trained, the safty could have been off too.....
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 1:55:25 PM EDT
Hey, saw some video of the upstate law people doing the house search of the 3 Arabs they arrested yesterday. One of their SWAT guys was carrying an H&R REISING SMG. Bet he'd love to have a Mini14. Hell, the dept. could sell that Reising for enough bucks to buy a carload of Minis, and probably half a car load of ARs. My gosh, a Reising. That piece has been in dept. inventory for at least 50 years [:D]
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 2:22:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Balzac72: When you apply the POS analysis, F/F+H, make sure you're thinking about the rifle being in your hands ready to kill bad guys, not a pleasant day at the range!
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I still contend that a dependable rifle can't be considered a POS if its only problem is that it can't get better than 2MOA without some work. The AK-47 is plagued with the same problems and has killed a few in its day. That being said i would also be scared shitless watching a hostage situation solved with a Mini.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 3:24:43 PM EDT
I agree with Diesel. The thing that gets me about the Mini14 that anyone who knows anything about rifles should clearly see is that it is amazing it shoots as well as it does. I own M1A's and I know what it takes to make those run decent. My wife and son have Minis and love them.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 4:18:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Balzac72: POS? Absolutely! I've never shot a rifle that made me look bad, but this one did it!
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I bought a NIB stainless steel ranch rifle in .223 and NEVER shot so poorly with any firearm or air rifle in my entire life. I even sent it back to the factory figuring the barrel was bent. The factory sent it back saying nothing wrong. Now I am using Wolf ammo and the accuracy has improved measureably. Guess the damn thing is very finicky about what it's fed.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 4:41:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shamayim: Hey, saw some video of the upstate law people doing the house search of the 3 Arabs they arrested yesterday. One of their SWAT guys was carrying an H&R REISING SMG. Bet he'd love to have a Mini14. Hell, the dept. could sell that Reising for enough bucks to buy a carload of Minis, and probably half a car load of ARs. My gosh, a Reising. That piece has been in dept. inventory for at least 50 years [:D]
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I wouldn't be suprised to find that some departments still have Thompsons or BARs in inventory. I seem to recall that one of the local departments was debating selling off their Thompson to purchase more & newer guns. Makes sense to me, they could buy surplus M3 'greasegun' smgs, M1/M2 Carbines or M16A1s dirt cheap for official PD business. If the Reising was owned by the dept (& not just by the officer using it) there might be political reasons for keeping it, ie liberal whiners not wanting to put "more weapons on the street" by selling the C&R Reising to a civilian collector...[rolleyes] [puke]
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 4:58:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2002 5:00:22 PM EDT by Wave]
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 5:24:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2002 5:26:34 PM EDT by ColtM4]
NYPD ESU will be transtioning to the COLT RO977 (M 4 ) very soon , going through ammo selection right now ( hotly debated issue) . They got the initial one's from us and looked at our T/E and decided to give it a shot , in fact they used my T/E M4 to show to Commisioner Kerick and he really loved it. The Mini 14 is a good Rifle , its just that the M4 is a great Rifle.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 5:30:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Balzac72: Anyone know why they use this POS?
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[b]this is just a guess but, might they be fans of that 80's series: A-Team ??? [/b]
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 5:41:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 5:44:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shamayim: One of their SWAT guys was carrying an H&R REISING SMG. Bet he'd love to have a Mini14. Hell, the dept. could sell that Reising for enough bucks to buy a carload of Minis, and probably half a car load of ARs.
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Hardly. Even for a nice Reising you could only get three, maybe four AR's. In machinegun terms, Reisings are dirt cheap, $2-3000 for most. Then the mags are $100 or more each. It would be easy to have as much money in mags as in the gun if you were so inclined.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 7:12:06 PM EDT
I think for police use, the Mini-14 is just fine. Offhand, I can think of about 10 rifles I'd prefer over a mini, but it sure beats a handgun, and if you're going to be beyond engaging over 20yards, better than a 12ga.. When I was 18 I bought a mini-14, added a choate birdcage flash suppressor and folding stock. It was a handy little carbine. 100% reliable. Back then they were dirt cheap. These days they are asking WAY too much money for them.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 7:35:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 8:13:17 PM EDT
Its true that the Mini-14 is not as accurate or adaptable as the AR15/M16, but it is a good police gun. Most of its reputation as a POS comes from the fact that aftermarket garbage magazines are the most available (factory mags are rare and EXPENSIVE). But a Mini with factory magazines is very reliable. As for the accuracy issue, it's true they are not a 100+ yard gun. However, the VAST majority of police engagements with a rifle will be within pistol range, and it has acceptable accuracy for that. It is a more PC looking rifle, which sounds stupid to most of us, but not to police administrators. Its a fine general issue patrol rifle. It's by far more accurate and shootable than a shotgun. One of its biggest advantages is the sights being mounted so low over the bore. Teaching the AR15/M16 to police officers (most of which are NOT "gun people") is a treat. CLEAR THE MUZZLE, not the sights! is heard a lot on the range, as well as having to teach to compensate for head shots. Just last month a Crown Vic from my agency ended up with a hole in the hood. The officer had never used and AR before and could clearly see the target through his sights, but his muzzle wasnt clear of the hood of the car he was using during a cover drill. As for the whole "hostage rescue shot", dear God dont let many of them try it with ANY rifle.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 9:10:49 PM EDT
For an entry gun or "urban tactical" carbine--or any situation where the rifle will be used at handgun distances--the Mini will do just fine. In a situation requiring sub MOA accuracy, a bolt action sniper rifle should be used.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 10:41:32 PM EDT
NEW YAWK SHITTY hell i thought you'all use peace and love to control crimanals. I Know it is spelled wrong.
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