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Posted: 9/12/2002 7:06:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2002 7:07:46 AM EDT by JohnBennett]
Please ask your congressional representative to support H.R. 5013, the Securing America’s Future through Enforcement Reform (SAFER) Act of 2002. H.R. 5013 would establish clearly defined national interest objectives for U.S. immigration policy. If Congress and the Administration are serious about correcting the homeland security threats that they admit exist, then they finally have a vehicle to do it. Countless members of Congress and people in the Bush Administration have taken advantage of countless media opportunities to score political points about the failures of our immigration policy that contributed to the disaster of Sept. 11 and the continued threats to our nation. Now we’ll see how serious they truly are. To find your local representative, please visit... [url]http://clerk.house.gov/members/index.php[/url] Major Components of H.R. 5013 The bill reduces legal immigration by eliminating several categories of persons eligible for green cards based on their relationship to a U.S. citizen or green-card holder. The categories apply to non-nuclear family members. The categories eliminated are adult siblings and adult children of U.S. citizens, and adult unmarried children of legal permanent residents. The bill would also end the entire diversity visa program, which reserves 55,000 slots a year for winners of a lottery. It authorizes the hiring of more border guards and thousands of Immigration and Naturalization Service inspectors to go after illegal immigrants, and it eliminates some of the methods illegal immigrants use to avoid enforcement of deportation orders. It allows officials to require those coming on non-immigrant visas to post a bond. If they violate the terms of their visas, a bondsman would be responsible for locating them and turning them over to for removal. The measure requires schools that admit foreign students to participate in the INS' student-tracking system, or else lose the ability to host foreign students. It would also require the INS to meet its January 2003 target for deployment or have the entire student-visa program shut down. H.R. 5013 would cut down on fraud by requiring specific standards for documents like Social Security cards. It requires voter lists to be checked against Social Security databases and INS records to make sure registered voters are citizens. The measure allows the nation to continue to accept refugees, but require congressional approval if the United States is on track to take in more refugees than the rest of the world combined the previous year. Please call your representative and register your support for this bill.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 8:14:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 10:11:18 AM EDT
btt...
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 3:00:24 PM EDT
[img]http://www.sgtfuzzbubble99.homestead.com/files/Smilies/Lucid_DM/bump.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 3:05:42 PM EDT
Okay so this bill is passed, immigrants are restrict more from coming here, then terrorist resort to gaining access to the country unannounced and we will never know who is here because you have more illegal immigrants . Sounds like how these bullshit gun laws were written-more law less crime mentality does NOT work!
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 7:16:16 PM EDT
No, this legislation is nothing like gun laws. Gun laws seek to restrict law-abiding Americans from owning guns, so that only criminals will have them. This immigration reform seeks to prevent illegal aliens from coming here. This results in more national resources for law-abiding Americans. Currently, liberal polititians want MORE immigration because immigrants and their communities tend to vote for liberal/leftist politicians. Put simply... More guns = Good More Aliens = Bad We should work to change the laws so there are more guns and less aliens. This law does that.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 7:41:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2002 7:43:09 PM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]
Originally Posted By JohnBennett: This immigration reform seeks to prevent illegal aliens from coming here
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Wrong, How are you going to do this? Build an "Iron Curtain" around us on the boarders of Mex. and Can.? On every square mile of Pacific,Gulf of Mexico and Atlanitc beaches have a big wall with guard towers? [red]Illegal aliens WILL get in this country No matter what laws are written![/red]
More Aliens = Bad
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I work with both Legal and Illegal Aliens on a daily basis. I can say that everyone I have met has been decent,hard working and wants to get legal status(if they do not have it already) and become a real American citizen. [red]less than 1% of all Aliens that enter this country no matter if they are legal or not are terrorists. [/red]
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 6:08:08 AM EDT
>>This immigration reform seeks to prevent illegal aliens from coming here. >Wrong Yes, it does. If you would like to see what the legislation does, visit http://thomas.loc.gov to read the text.
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 6:15:47 AM EDT
I work with both Legal and Illegal Aliens on a daily basis.
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Where do you work?
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 6:32:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 7:24:42 AM EDT
What ever happened to bring us your tired you poor your huddled masses yearning to be free?
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 7:56:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 8:05:13 AM EDT
I have an Iranian citizen as a client, who, when he registered for a driver's license in Arkansas, was routinely asked is he wanted a voter registration card printed out by the computer while he was getting his license. No ma'am, I'm not a US citizen. Nonsense the woman says, 'Anyone can vote' and proceeded to punch his info onto the computer which printed out a voter registration card and handed it to him. 'Is this legal for me to have a voter registration card', he asked me. I'm not certain, sez I, but it is against the law for you to vote. Not that anyone would ever complain if you did! Nor take any steps against you, either! Great! His vote counts as much as yours! Eric The(Pizzed)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 8:20:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Andrewh: What ever happened to bring us your tired you poor your huddled masses yearning to be free?
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Dear Andrew, it is with regret that I must inform you that the United States is no longer in the "huddled mass" business. A more up-to-date and accurate inscription is being prepared for the Statue of Liberty. Although still in the formative stage, a possible wording may be: "Send us your Engineers and Doctors and Ph.D.'s and Programmers" Andrew, although the masses may rail against immigration ,we've mucked-up our education system to the point where we must look abroad for the talent needed to continue the growth of our great nation. Thank you for your interest in this subject and "God Bless America". Very truly Yours, Fred Swindle Deputy Director, U.S. Dept of Education
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 10:09:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: "Send us your Engineers and Doctors and Ph.D.'s and Programmers"
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So very very true!
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 10:20:29 AM EDT
Yeah, my GF from Argentina (who first had a student visa in her Masters program and now is on a work visa as a translator) always gets asked that at the License Bureau. Same for most of the international students I know.
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: I have an Iranian citizen as a client, who, when he registered for a driver's license in Arkansas, was routinely asked is he wanted a voter registration card printed out by the computer while he was getting his license. ... Eric The(Pizzed)Hun[>]:)]
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Link Posted: 9/13/2002 10:26:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2002 10:28:44 AM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]
Originally Posted By JohnBennett: Where do you work?
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I am going to tell you? LOL! Listen this country was made to accept people of all colors , religions, nationality and social status. But not now because of people like you. Now the only people than can come here and make something of themselves are either Mexican that walk over here or the rich from other countries who are the only people that can afford to jump through the INS bullshit hoops and bullshit bureaucracy! I have helped women that were being abused and treated to be killed by their husbands because they didn't speak when spoken to, because they had a mind heir own. Yes they were Muslim too with. this bill your trying to get passed will only make it harder for people like her to come here and escape that life (if you can even call that a "LIFE" for a human to live) I have helped very very poor immigrants find ESL classes for FREE so they can learn english, support their families and eventually get a green card to support the welfare that are citizens in this country that DO NOT deserve to be here because they cant work, they chose NO to work because they can have more and more kids and the USA will just shove more $'s down their throats. Who the hell side are you on? I have helped Chinese women stay here because they wanted to have another child, they didn't want to go back to China have their fucking kid ripped out of their bodies without medication or proper sanitation. What do you think of that? And if you must know where I work, I'll tell your ass.. I work as an ESL Advisor for a community college. Yes, I help immigrant find a place here in America, so they can work, pay taxes and make a better life for not only them but for all Americans. That's more than what some Americans can say they do! [soapbox]
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 10:38:38 AM EDT
BTW: Unless your a Native American STFU about more people wanting to come to this land the legal way.
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 12:29:30 PM EDT
It is [b]not[/b] in the national interest of the United States to import poor, uneducated social burdens from other countries. We have limited natural resources. We don't need millions of additional hungry mouths added to the burden we place on our water resources, health care system, food supply, and available land. We have enough poor and unemployed already here without importing more. America first. Keep her strong and free. Keep our standard of living high. If other countries can't figure out how to treat their people, it's not our fault. The only immigration we need is enough to skim off the best scientists, doctors, and PhD.'s from other countries. You want to bring America down to the level of other countries, an illiterate, poverty stricken mass of peasants ruled by an autocratic elite. Fortunately, most Americans believe that is a bad idea. They don't share your one-world, Socialist/Communist views. It would be nice if there were enough Rainbow Stew and free Bubble-ub for everyone, but this is the real world.
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 12:54:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2002 1:03:32 PM EDT by shooter69]
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: Listen this country was made to accept people of all colors , religions, nationality and social status. But not now [red]because of people like you[/red]. Now the only people than can come here and make something of themselves are either Mexican that walk over here or the rich from other countries who are the only people that can afford to jump through the INS bullshit hoops and bullshit bureaucracy!
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Oh really. Then why was the law only changed in the 60's to permit non-Europeans to immigrate in substantial numbers? Hmm??? You are a very confused person. Besides being historically challenged you are also woefully ignorant of the present system. The USA has the most generous immigration system: we take in 52% of legal immigrants in the world - a million a year in the "diversity" lottery alone. Not to mention the "come to the US, have a baby, and stay forever" loophole that is being grossly exploited, THAT YOU FAVOR. And the family rule where they can bring over their relatives, who then abuse the rule to bring over their relatives (unrelated to the first immigrants), in an endless chain. And the visas for foreign students who never leave. And the H1B visas with people coming here to work TEMPORARILY, where few if any ever return to their homeland, despite that being the intent and their agreement. And the real political asylum cases (not the bogus sham it's become). And the "special cases" where the US government flies in thousands of somalis (posted here by another member) and sets up their own little colonies, with taxpayer funding and welfare benefits, in MN or ME. It all adds up to MILLIONS a year... but it could never be enough for you "open borders" types. Ask ckapsl, matrix or any other first generation immigrant here if they had to be loaded to get in. Ha! This immigration fiasco is busting the bank for many states and municipalities (and ballooning the federal budget) who have to provide additonal services that their presence does not make up for. Illegal Mexican nationals make up a GROSSLY OVERREPRESENTED number of the murderers, rapists and robbers in the CA penal system (and other border states). So while every illegal you met was the salt of the earth, other Americans have not been so fortunate [u]in their encounters[/u].
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: I have helped women that were being abused and treated to be killed by their husbands because they didn't speak when spoken to, because they had a mind heir own. Yes they were Muslim too with. this bill your trying to get passed will only make it harder for people like her to come here and escape that life (if you can even call that a "LIFE" for a human to live)
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I see. The only way to escape a battering husband for these women is to fly half way around the world. [rolleyes]
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: I have helped very very poor immigrants find ESL classes for FREE so they can learn english, support their families and eventually get a green card to support the welfare that are citizens in this country that DO NOT deserve to be here because they cant work, they chose NO to work because they can have more and more kids and the USA will just shove more $'s down their throats. Who the hell side are you on?
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The side of the people that can actually form a coherent sentence. The only thing I learned from the above is that you were exaggerating before when you said that only Mexicans and rich foreigners are getting in. Stop it.
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: I have helped Chinese women stay here because they wanted to have another child, they didn't want to go back to China have their fucking kid ripped out of their bodies without medication or proper sanitation. What do you think of that?
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I think that you are making us RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD... and I do mean FUCKING.
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: And if you must know where I work, I'll tell your ass.. I work as an ESL Advisor for a community college. Yes, I help immigrant find a place here in America, so they can work, pay taxes and make a better life for not only them but for all Americans. That's more than what some Americans can say they do!
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If that's the case then they can certainly make a better life for all the people in their homeland, by working there and paying their taxes, talented as they are. The world has changed. 80% of the wealth in the world is outside of the US. There are hundreds of millions in the Chinese and Indian middle classes. Billionaires by the score. All this economic migration to countries where the average income is still higher is giant cop-out. It feeds a "brain drain" of needed talent to continue a country's development, all because they can make more money in the US or Western Europe. There are entire teaching hospitals in India where all the students come here to find work, only because it pays more. They could care less about the grossly underserved population of their own country, where few have a doctor. Greed, selfishness! And then people LIKE YOU tell us that they care so much about their fellow americans.....
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: Wrong, How are you going to do this? Build an "Iron Curtain" around us on the boarders of Mex. and Can.? On every square mile of Pacific,Gulf of Mexico and Atlanitc beaches have a big wall with guard towers? [red]Illegal aliens WILL get in this country No matter what laws are written![/red]
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No, do what the Mexicans have themselves done to reduce the numbers of ILLEGAL central american migrants into their country: Put the military on the border! If it's good enough for Mexico it should be fine for us. Of course we can't do that because we now live in a country - where thanks to [red]people like you[/red] - double standards and hypocrisy are the rule. If the overwhemling number of illegals enter this country across that border it will make a significant dent in the numbers. You can never prevent every last one, but it will give us time to regroup, and cut down on the endless new school building in Los Angeles to educate people that shouldn't be here BY LAW.
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: I work with both Legal and Illegal Aliens on a daily basis. I can say that everyone I have met has been decent,hard working and wants to get legal status(if they do not have it already) and become a real American citizen.
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That's lovely. Whether they have a sob story or not this is a nation of laws, and not men (LIKE YOU who obviously thinks the law should be selectively enforced). The illegals should be deported and people that knowingly hire or help them skirt the rules should be prosecuted. If you work with so many of them "on a daily basis" then you have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Kind of like an immigration lawyer, or the corrupt Tyson chicken executives.
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: BTW: Unless your a Native American STFU about more people wanting to come to this land the legal way.
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[img]http://www.gamerz232.org/images/okstfu.jpg[/img] I am a native american you jerk. And the only reason there is a country for your clients to fly into on air-conditioned 747's, go on welfare, and have their children educated is because my ancestors (and the majority of the people's here) BUILT IT. There is nothing magical about this land mass. Don't believe that? Take a look at any town on the Mexican border and the town just on the other side. Same crummy land. Then ask yourself why the rest of the world is not getting on with the business of making that a reality in THEIR COUNTRIES.
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 1:31:58 PM EDT
Then why let anyone immigrate at all. If there is such a burden on this country, why give a break to anyone. We don't need anymore lawyers, doctors, or engineers. We should be able to churn out the best ourselves. What the hell toss all these freaks out, and get some of these unemployed sys admins that can't get off their butts to take out my garbage instead of the mexican immigrants(sp) that do it now. Get the boeing and IBM guys that just got laid off to pick the oranges and such out there in cali for us and send those migrant workers home to wherever they came from. Quit putting up those h1b visas for people to come here and work, there are plenty of unemployed here right now.
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 1:53:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 2:09:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2002 2:17:38 PM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]
OK, lets cool it down and read my post again. I am sticking up for those that want to come here and make a life for themselves and I am against the way people think that all immigrants are going to be terrorist and we should close our boarders. So now let me respond to the attacks aimed at me;
Originally Posted By shooter69: Oh really. Then why was the law only changed in the 60's to permit non-Europeans to immigrate in substantial numbers?
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Im really not sure, perhaps he cold war had something to do with it?
You are a very confused person. Besides being historically challenged you are also woefully ignorant of the present system.
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Confused, historically challenged , pobably. But I am replying to what I do know.
The USA has the most generous immigration system: we take in 52% of legal immigrants in the world - a million a year in the "diversity" lottery alone. Not to mention the "come to the US, have a baby, and stay forever" loophole that is being grossly exploited,
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Wrong again, I know of two people that came to the US in a legal manner, got married and had a child with the American citizen, applied for a green card-was denied a green card. They will both be deported if the are not granted an appeal.
YOU FAVOR. And the family rule where they can bring over their relatives, who then abuse the rule to bring over their relatives (unrelated to the first immigrants),
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Wrong again. You must have documnts showing you are related to that person directly. AND You (if you wee a sponsor) must provide a financial statement from your banks showing that they have the finical backing to support their sponsors
And the visas for foreign students who never leave.
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I can say that at my school 90% of the International students leave after they get their education. the other 10% either get offered jobs from American companies or et married to an American ect.
And the H1B visas with people coming here to work TEMPORARILY, where few if any ever return to their homeland, despite that being the intent and their agreement.
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Your right. I have no dispute with that.
And the real political asylum cases (not the bogus sham it's become). And the "special cases" where the US government flies in thousands of somalis (posted here by another member) and sets up their own little colonies, with taxpayer funding and welfare benefits, in MN or ME. It all adds up to MILLIONS a year... but it could never be enough for you "open borders" types.
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Your right again, and I am NOT an open boarder type, so do NOT name me as such!
Ask ckapsl, matrix or any other first generation immigrant here if they had to be loaded to get in. Ha!
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I did not say all were loaded, did I? But I will say and It takes a lot of money to do it the legal way here,which goes against the "give me your poor" ideal doesnt it?
This immigration fiasco is busting the bank for many states and municipalities (and ballooning the federal budget) who have to provide additonal services that their presence does not make up for. Illegal Mexican nationals make up a GROSSLY OVERREPRESENTED number of the murderers, rapists and robbers in the CA penal system (and other border states). So while every illegal you met was the salt of the earth, other Americans have not been so fortunate [u]in their encounters[/u].
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Where did I say anything about immigration not being a fiasco? I think I was making that point pretty clear.
I see. The only way to escape a battering husband for these women is to fly half way around the world.
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Or be killed, the women that I have met and helped through our programs ad family here. So this was the safest place to go for them
The side of the people that can actually form a coherent sentence. The only thing I learned from the above is that you were exaggerating before when you said that only Mexicans and rich foreigners are getting in. Stop it.
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Again, I did NOT say the only people geting in our rich people. So you please stop it. The whole world? I was just commenting on a few situations I have had. Please tell me what you would have done. Said "No I refuse to help you, please go back to your country and have your child aborted by the government and hey.. you may die as well because they don't care about your health either.... have a nice day! "
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: And if you must know where I work, I'll tell your ass.. I work as an ESL Advisor for a community college. Yes, I help immigrant find a place here in America, so they can work, pay taxes and make a better life for not only them but for all Americans. That's more than what some Americans can say they do!
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CONT.
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 2:22:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2002 2:23:05 PM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]
CONT.
If that's the case then they can certainly make a better life for all the people in their homeland, by working there and paying their taxes, talented as they are. The world has changed. 80% of the wealth in the world is outside of the US. There are hundreds of millions in the Chinese and Indian middle classes. Billionaires by the score. All this economic migration to countries where the average income is still higher is giant cop-out. It feeds a "brain drain" of needed talent to continue a country's development, all because they can make more money in the US or Western Europe.
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So we should stop all immigration into America? That would not make America a free country would it? you said that we shouldn't only let doctors and higher educated types in and, now your saying we shouldn't? Make up your mind before you post.
There are entire teaching hospitals in India where all the students come here to find work, only because it pays more. They couldn't care less about the grossly undeserved population of their own country, where few have a doctor. Greed, selfishness! And then people LIKE YOU tell us that they care so much about their fellow americans.....
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I did? I don't think I said "They care about Americans so much"
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: Wrong, How are you going to do this? Build an "Iron Curtain" around us on the boarders of Mex. and Can.? On every square mile of Pacific,Gulf of Mexico and Atlanitc beaches have a big wall with guard towers? [red]Illegal aliens WILL get in this country No matter what laws are written![/red]
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No, do what the Mexicans have themselves done to reduce the numbers of ILLEGAL central american migrants into their country: Put the military on the border! If it's good enough for Mexico it should be fine for us. Of course we can't do that because we now live in a country - where thanks to [red]people like you[/red] - double standards and hypocrisy are the rule.
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Huh no. I am for the military on the boarder. Double standard? Please show me where that is.
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: I work with both Legal and Illegal Aliens on a daily basis. I can say that everyone I have met has been decent, hard working and wants to get legal status (if they do not have it already) and become a real American citizen.
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That's lovely. Whether they have a sob story or not this is a nation of laws, and not men (LIKE YOU who obviously thinks the law should be selectively enforced)
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Sounds like that's you.
. The illegal should be deported and people that knowingly hire or help them skirt the rules should be prosecuted.
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Well, that would be the state. You do know the state runs this programs knowingly that some of our students are here illegal? Oh no you wouldn't because you probably didn't think about that.
If you work with so many of them "on a daily basis" then you have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Kind of like an immigration lawyer, or the corrupt Tyson chicken executives.
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So we shouldn't help any immigrants come here and learn the language? Sounds like that would Not be a good idea.
I am a native American you jerk. And the only reason there is a country for your clients to fly into on air-conditioned 747's, go on welfare, and have their children educated is because my ancestors (and the majority of the people's here)
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Maybe you need to read it again! I was sticking up for American Indians! I was saying exactly what you said to me! I was stating that this IS the land of the American Indians, and they should be treated with more respect!
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 5:29:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2002 5:52:13 PM EDT by shooter69]
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: OK, lets cool it down and read my post again. I am sticking up for those that want to come here and make a life for themselves and I am against the way people think that all immigrants are going to be terrorist and we should close our boarders.
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Boarders? We should be repelling boarders! You mean 99.99% of immigrants are not terrorists? Well [img]http://www.gamerz232.org/images/Cap_obvious.jpg[/img]
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: Im really not sure, perhaps he cold war had something to do with it
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Fine, but that means that what you said before in relation to the forming the country is just not true.
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: Confused, historically challenged , pobably. But I am replying to what I do know.
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Which does appear to be limited. Sometimes it's good to look beyond your own narrow experience and consider what the long term effects of the policies you support are. Do you want this country to end up like India? Do you want twenty million + mega cities along the lines of Mexico City, Cairo, Jakarta, Calcutta, etc. here, with the all the congestion, pollution and poor quality of life?
Wrong again, I know of two people that came to the US in a legal manner, got married and had a child with the American citizen, applied for a green card-was denied a green card. They will both be deported if the are not granted an appeal.
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What the hell are you saying! Two people came here and had a child with an american citizen? It's very hard to understand you. Is English your first language?
Wrong again. You must have documnts showing you are related to that person directly.
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You're missing the point. Paco comes to America with his wife and children. Paco then brings over his married sister and her family (package deal). They go through the same procedures and then later bring over the sister's husband's nephew, who is directly related, but not to Paco. Ad infinitum. That's how it works.
You (if you wee a sponsor) must provide a financial statement from your banks showing that they have the finical backing to support their sponsors
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You are very naive. Yes, you must agree that the relatives will be supported (and not go on welfare), BUT THAT AGREEMENT IS NOT BINDING! As I explained here once before, there are tens, even hundreds of thousands of family members who have come here with the intention of going on welfare regardless of whatever they are required to sign; and have done so! My Grandmother worked as a secretary in a bank, where she ROUTINELY helped arab immigrants here in Michigan provide the required documention. She would also see the same customers bringing in their newly arrived family members to open accounts. Invariably AFDC and General assistance (Michigan state gov program thankfully now eliminated) checks would follow (despite what they agreed!).
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: I can say that at my school 90% of the International students leave after they get their education. the other 10% either get offered jobs from American companies or et married to an American ect.
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[img]http://www.regalweb.co.uk/loony/animated/beamup.gif[/img] Now I've heard it all! Beam me up, Scotty. So when Attorney General Ashcroft said back in September 2001 that there were millions of unaccounted foreigners who have illegally overstayed their (work, school, etc.) visas (this in response to some of the 9-11 hijackers who had OVERSTAYED THEIR SCHOOL VISAS as so many others are right now), and the government didn't have a clue where they were in the country... that was happening every place else, right... but not your school. [rolleyes]
Your right. I have no dispute with that.
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Right, so if you are going to agree about the work visas then why would you deny that it's happening with the school visas also?
Your right again, and I am NOT an open boarder type, so do NOT name me as such!
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You mean taking in every abused muslim woman (or would you pick and choose between abuses?) or chinese lady who wants to have another child here isn't open borders? All the causes you support, and individual cases you champion sure seem to add up to that. But alright, Mr. M4 Grinch, you define yourself any way you like; but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it might just be a confused open borders advocate, who doesn't really understand what it is he is supporting.
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: I did not say all were loaded, did I? But I will say and It takes a lot of money to do it the legal way here,which goes against the "give me your poor" ideal doesnt it?
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[img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/nose.gif[/img] Look! Your nose is growing! What you said is this...
But not now because of people like you. Now the only people than can come here and make something of themselves [red]are either Mexican[/red] that walk over here [red]or the rich from other countries[/red] who are the only people that can afford to jump through the INS bullshit hoops and bullshit bureaucracy!
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Link Posted: 9/13/2002 5:32:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2002 5:41:56 PM EDT by shooter69]
In truth we are importing poverty into this country. The non-partisan government supported think tank The Rand Corporation has said so. During Clinton's economic boom of the 90's people were complaining that the poor were not making the same economic advances they had in past times of growth (50's, 60's, Reagan's 80's). If you subtracted out the unskilled/uneducated immigrants who came during that time [u]it explains the difference FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY[/u] (even with entire new industries like the internet employing more people, so it's only going to get worse).
Where did I say anything about immigration not being a fiasco? I think I was making that point pretty clear.
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[img]http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/icons/yay.gif[/img] Yes, from the other side of the issue, but we can at least agree on this much.
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: Again, I did NOT say the only people geting in our rich people. So you please stop it.
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Let me refresh your memory. You said that only Mexicans and the rich were getting in. Scroll up to see what you said if you think I'm putting words in your mouth.
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: Please tell me what you would have done.Said "No I refuse to help you, please go back to your country and have your child aborted by the government and hey.. you may die as well because they don't care about your health either.... have a nice day! "
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So you're the doctor delivering the baby now? Does it ever occur to you that the lady got pregnant with the sole intention of coming here? Mexicans do it all the time. I watched a television program on Korean women who do it so their kids will not be South Korean citizens and thus obligated for the military draft there. Now it's the Chinese I guess. Everyone has their reasons, economic or otherwise. Was she from a well-off Chinese family? American hospitals cannot turn down people because of an inability to pay (it is bankrupting many, especially in Mexican border states). If not the hospital will simply pass the cost on to americans who have insurance, which is why hospital bills these days can require a mortgage to pay off.
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: So we should stop all immigration into America? That would not make America a free country would it? you said that we shouldn't only let doctors and higher educated types in and, now your saying we shouldn't? Make up your mind before you post.
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What! Free for whom, the unlimited numbers of people who want to come here? You mean if a country doesn't have a [b]pro[/b]-immigration policy then it can't really be a free country? You are one sick puppy! Did you learn that in Marxism 101?
I did? I don't think I said "They care about Americans so much"
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No, but you started the "people like you" characterization. It works both ways, and as such I can lump you together with other people who I believe share similar attitudes. Enjoy!
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: Huh no. I am for the military on the boarder. Double standard? Please show me where that is.
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Great! We're making some progress with you. Are you aware that if the Mexican government is using their military to control illegal immigration with their southern neighbors, while objecting (along with [i]The council of La Raza[/i] in this country) to any plan that is proposed to do just that HERE, that it might be a double standard? Hypocrisy? Earth to the Grinch.
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: Sounds like that's you.
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No. I advocate changing the law to restrict immigration to the old number of a few hundred thousand a year (with breaks of no immigration for periods of time JUST LIKE HAPPENED A HALF DOZEN TIMES IN THE PAST), eliminating the loopholes and abuses, and ending the scourge of illegal immigration entirely. You defend lawbreakers (the illegal aliens who are your clients and who have broken our laws) here on this board, in this topic.
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: Well, that would be the state. You do know the state runs this programs knowingly that some of our students are here illegal? Oh no you wouldn't because you probably didn't think about that.
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Are you a recent immigrant too? Because you write EXACTLY like some Mexican character in a 1940's movie WOULD SPEAK. To think that you are involved in higher education. [img]http://www.rapidforum.at/smilies/b21.gif[/img] No wonder they want to spend so much money on education.
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: So we shouldn't help any immigrants come here and learn the language? Sounds like that would Not be a good idea.
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As long as they are here it should be MANDATED. I just hope YOU aren't their teacher, based on your "writings."
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 1:20:31 AM EDT
[img]http://www.sgtfuzzbubble99.homestead.com/files/Smilies/Lucid_DM/bump.gif[/img] for my good friend M4 the compassionate. [;)]
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 12:33:16 PM EDT
I see M4's been on twice but chosen not to comment both times. One last chance and I'll call it a day.
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