What a bunch of fuckin idiots!

You went through the detector, and IT WORKED!  They caught the knife.

O.k.  They were on the money in questioning you at that point.  But unless you're an Arab type and/or gave some very evasive/suspicious answers, the REAL cops should have figured out that you made a mistake.  No need to take you to the pokey and file charges--or anything else.  

I can't believe we are so fucking paranoid that we confiscate plastic G.I. Joe guns; make mothers taste their own breast milk, and simply charge a guy, with ZERO discretion or ability to recognize a legit threat from a mistake.  

It's a strict liability standard--why don't we just shoot you on the spot and dispense with the procedure.  


IDIOTS!!!!

[B]BINGO![/B]

This isn't (or shouldn't be...) a question of philosophy...who's the baddies...who should be allowed to carry...why old Medal of Honor awardees are searched.  Rather it is about a guy having a brain fart and forgetting he is carrying a deadly weapon in violation of federal law.

For the record:  I would like to carry on a plane...as I do everywhere else I go, virtually all day long, every day of the week!  I damn well would like to pack in the airport...at least outside the immediate gate/security area...but you know what?  I don't.  When I arrive, my piece goes into a secure part of my vehicle and I enter unarmed.  If I am traveling, I leave it at home.  Am I uncomfortable...sure...especially if I'm flying to LA!  Thing is...it's the LAW and it's also plain common sense now.

I also think we should simply racially/ethnically PROFILE all airline pax.  Eighty year old, one-legged gramps and stooped over grannies and soccer moms struggling with kids and all their paraphenalia are NOT going to jack a plane.  18-40 year old Middle eastern looking [Muslim] males ARE likely candidates to do so...and they are the ones we need to scrutinize.

WE are our own worst enemy.  IF we did it as the Israelis do it...we would never have had a plane jacked.  Think for a sec, guys:  Is there any of you out there who didn't think that our security system was a joke years ago...and ripe for a disaster?  I sure did.

DO THEY ARREST OLD LADY WITH A FUCKIN PAIR OF CONTRABAND FINGERNAIL CLIPPERS ???

No, they check it or confiscate it.

Yes they should have investigated the incident, but they weren't suspecting him of "terrorism".  

NO DECENT JUDGMENT WAS USED HERE

Even if the "assault knife" was illegal does it warrant a damn court hearing in this case?

Do you think they haul in every kid they catch drinkin a beer...

Hey Jarhead, is supporting this kind of BS why you're wearing / wore the EGA?

I wore mine because I appreciate and wanted to support my rights and the rights of those after me.   Hey bros, lets not start cheerleading for the other side here.

Now you could not get through. LEOs need a reason to get through security and a bunch of paperwork. I haven't carried into an airport since before 9-11, and won't unless I am doing an prisoner escort or something else similar.

On your second question, where was the officer going to put the knife? Police don't generally carry pockets fuull of evidence bags. The knife most assuredly is in evidence.

I hear a lot of grumbling on this topic. This is not any kind of grand miscarriage of justice. You should be responsible enough to realize that if you carry a knife into the secured area of an airport, bad things will happen. If you don't like it, take the bus. I do not like being disarmed at airports, either, but there really isn't any other way to handle this at this time. The rules are out there, plain as day, and your tickets even come with little helpful hints. Who the heck gets dressed in the morning to go to the airport and honestly "forgets" where they are going and sticks a knife in their pocket? I am conscious of every time I strap a pistol to my belt (pretty much every time I leave the house). I always run through a "check" of what I have on my person.

In this case, the "system" worked. It sucks for the guy who got arrested, but he is an adult, he should deal with the consequences like one (and it sounds like he is, for the most part). There is nothing wrong or unconstitutional about what happened to him.

As far as the wherabouts f the knife, I think they probaby do have it in evidence.

I just find it rediculous that he was arrested and hauled in and arrested for A FUCKIN POCKET KNIFE

Why is everyone making excuses?  The offense is not just terrorism but trying to take the knife into a secure area.  It doesn't require a criminal intent, it's a strict liability offense.

This isn't the rent-a-cops being overly aggressive, this is exactly what they should be on the lookout for.  

And as for what a terrorist looks like, I agree it shouldn't be old ladies and soccer moms, but this guy sounds like a  young man.  Do you think a cleaned up John Walker Lindh would look any different.

Finally, I must question the original poster's judgment in general.  He's all worried about getting a $100 knife back when he's probably going to be a few grand behind in legal bills if he wants to avoid a criminal record.

And the reason this is not like regular gun control is that on the street at most you can kill a few people with a regular gun until you're stopped.  The damage is likely to be more minimal.

A plane on the other hand can be turned into a guided missle capable of taking out tens of thousands of people.  There's good reason to keep it a secure environment.  And there's also good reason to be strict about knives and guns being carried on board.  

I've already stated that he needed to be investigated.  

I assume someone of athoratahh decided he wasn't a threat, or he'd have been turned over to the FBI.  

He was hauled in for concealing a pocket knife; a local law, not a federal violation.  If he'd tried to intentionally sneak one in    
then he'd ahve the FBI all over his ass.

The local cops were called becasue the knife was an illegal concealled weapons, which seems from the post here wasn't even illegal in the first place.

I'm glad he was caught, don't get me wrong.
This is good, but when we gets hauled off for a pocket knife.....Just piss poor judgement


Hey there jarhead, calm down I wasn't trying to flame ya, but you seem to think this guy deserved to be hauled in....
When we start allowing this and thinking of it as a good thing we're in trouble.

I don't reckon he could've said much if the FBI questioned him all day long, but the point is that the airport security decided he was no threat, AFTER THAT the local cops could have warned him, but again why were they even called???? It wasn't a switchblade or butterfly knife or anything like that....

He knows he made a mistake.  But how can anyone consider being hauled in for a pocket knife REASONABLE, particularly in this circumstance.

Guys this is a real story.  I've been shooting with Mr.Meth0d before.  

I've been through several airports post 9/11 with guns, and twice with a pocket knife.  However, I put my knife in my carryon bag and was never stopped.  Usually I do this while standing in line cuz I forget I carry rhe damn thing almost everywhere.  So I can see having it with.

Anyway, I hope nothing comes of this and he gets a good lawyer and doesn't get charged, etc.  

And people wonder why I don't fly anymore.  I HATE riding the bus or driving, but at least I am in charge of my own security, not a bunch of incompetent buffoons.

That being said, I think it's time for me to reply once again to MGDave, who said in a thread some time ago, "One Wonders Why You Have An Attorney On Retainer."

Dave, I hope you're reading this thread.  THIS kind of stupidity is why.

I live in Tampa.  I've done security here for 10 years.  Did Bail Enforcement for two.  I've forgotten on occasion and, though I'd left my FIREARM in my car, I'd had a pocket with a couple of speedloaders in it...one time I'd gotten to the gate and told the security person, "Excuse me, I need to go back to my car."  They looked at me funny, but said nothing.

That was many years ago.  Nowadays I don't even go on airport PROPERTY unless someone is paying me very well, and all my p's and q's are minded, meaning I am a disarmed sheep.

But I STILL have an ATTORNEY on RETAINER, because I am human and make mistakes.

I have carried a gun most of my adult life.  Up until recently (A year ago) I also carried a real switchblade as my rescue knife, because until Miami-Dade's court system got stupid, switchblades were legal to own, and according to the local policy of law enforcement, legal to carry with a CCW.

But times change.

Several years ago, I'd have thought nothing of just popping my pistol in the trunk and going into the sterile area with an empty holster.  No big deal.

Nowadays...I just don't need the hassles.  Nothing goes with me onto airport property, and I won't go into a Sterile Area unless there professionally and being ESCORTED by Airport PD (not in handcuffs).

This knife incident illustrates just how far We The People have gotten away from our precious civil liberties, how people who do not understand the concept and the methodology of liberty and freedom have given away (CHEAPLY) our God-Given rights in the places we need them the most.

Yes, according to current law, our friend made a grave error and is now going through the meat grinder for it.

We can either give him advice, lament the condition of our screwed up society, or blame him.

Or maybe all three.

I'm sorry this happened to you, brother.  No honest man should be treated this way.  But it is life.

Sucks, huh?

Think about this kind of situation then very next time some dingleberry says "We have to curtail some freedoms because people have the right to feel safe."

How safe do you all feel?

I only feel safe when Mr. Colt rides my hip, and Mr. Bushmaster is in easy reach.  Want to know why?

Because I am the most qualified person to protect me.  Period.

Hand over your own personal safety to someone who does not have a personal interest in it, other than a rather pathetic paycheck, and you are going to have all SORTS of problems, this one being one of the lesser.

Let us all learn our lesson from this situation.  Airport Security is NOT happening to the Bad Guys...it is happening to US!!

I'd hate to think that the bad guys are smarter than we are.

(( Edited because the comment by MGDave was in a "THREAD" not a "THREAT", and some clarification was in order as I wrote in haste ))

Enough said.

Panz
[bounce]

First off let me make something clear, I DO realize that what I did was VERY STUPID and I'm not trying to justify it, somehow amid all my packing and running around my pocket knife escaped my notice. After all how do you think I got to Michigan with it... yeah I checked it in my camping bag! This was an honest mistake and I am paying dearly for it.

The last thing I expected when I first discovered the knife in my pocket was to be arrested and taken to jail. What did I expect? Well I knew I was in the wrong, and that they would take the knife away, the questions weren't a problem and I was willing to answer whatever they asked me, and the fact that they ran my record wasn't a problem either... after all I have nothing to hide, I am an honest law abiding american citizen with a clean record.

The point where I feel they went too far was when they arrested me, over a damn pocket knife! I'm 23, white, male from california on a return flight home. I know that if I had a smaller knife, 3" vs 3.5" they likely would have tossed it in "the bucket" and let me go on my way... no handcuffs, no jail, no need for a lawyer. WHY? Would a 3" knife be any less lethal in a killers hands? or for that matter would a killer knowingly try to carry a knife clipped to his pocket through a metal detector? Come on people I didn't have this embedded in the sole of my boot or anything! What is our country coming to?

I have heard that at the airport in new york, if you have something with you that they won't allow through security you have the option of tossing it or going to a separate room and putting it in a mailer and sending it to yourself. This seems to me to be a much more sensible solution.

As for whoever commented that this is only my 4th post, we all got to start somewhere... I am a relatively new member and I know I haven't had alot to say but I have read alot of the posts on here and when I feel that I have something worthwile to contribute you will know.

Thank you.

~~~ TheMeth0d




As for getting a lawyer, I did get one. He has filed papers on my behalf so I did not need to appear for the arraignment. He has informed me that it is very likely that I will have to travel to michigan to goto court... and yes this is a michigan case not federal.

On the notice to appear it lists:
"Airports - Possessing Weapon In Sterile Area"

My lawyer filed an appearance for the arraignment on the 10th. He is in Southfield, MI. I am trying to find out what my options are now and I should hear from my lawyer today.
The 34th district court in romulus is handling my case.

~~~ TheMeth0d

Jesus H. Christ.  You guys are freakin unbelievable.  

Of course Method fucked up.  But does he deserve to go to JAIL?  Hell no.  

Again, where is the common sense?  Where is the discretion?  Where is true police work being done?  Or, are these idiots simply acting like robots that have no ability to think for themselves?  

Please remember, screeners are confiscating [b]PLASTIC 2 1/2" TOY GI JOE GUNS under the guise that they are weapons![/b]  Happened to none other than Dick Marcinko (it was a doll of himself!).  They are making mothers taste their own breast milk to prove it's not dangerous!  

These "screeners" are idiots.  The new security rules are indeed justified but they must appropriately apply to REAL threat situations or they have ZERO value.  

The time wasted increases the chances that REAL terrorists get through.  

Remember, the weapon really isn't the point; it's just an indicator.  The passenger is the point.  As was already mentioned, one very skilled/knowledable person, without a weapon in their possession at screening, can hijack a plane.  It's the job of the screeners/law enforcement to make that critical determination.  Locking up a guy that makes a mental error at the check-point, without any critical analysis of him, his intentions, motives, etc. is pointless.  

We, as a nation, have much to balance.  Do we want to live as though the Tangos have already won?  Or do we use our heads, and make good, solid informed decisions, based upon rational evaluation of the situation at hand?  

I know which one I pick.    

I would just say get the name of the cop with the similar size knife, and have him deposed as a witness, and have others who saw him comparing knife sizes done too. A pocket knife for a cop is probably as illegal for him as it is for you, and vice versa.

TXLEWIS

Does this not sound like you think he deserved what happened to him ???



It aint the airport he's in trouble with...



OK maybe it does seem hostile as I look back, but not meant this way.  I definately wasn't trying to criticise your fitness as a Marine, I don't know you.

I just don't see how any freedom loving American, particularly one that went through the trouble of working in the defense of the nation, beleives that it is OK for the Govt (fed or local) to haul folks to jail for conceiling a pocket knife. If we allow this sort of thing to continue, it wlll only get worse.

Like I said, I think he's lucky that the FBI didn't hold him up for a few hours, if not days.  I could've understood that...

But "they" let folks go all day long for lesser ofenses...

No, not really. The same exceptions under the law that allowed the on-duty officer to carry his sidearm, baton, OC spray, Taser, et cetera would apply to his pocket knife, utility knife, boot knife, back-up gun, hideout gun, shotgun, subgun, rifle and so forth.

As a former Michigan resident I hate to say it but you are pretty much screwed.

Any knife over 3" is considered a concealed weapon if you have it on you.  Double edge knives are illegal.  Pepper Spray that is over 2% is illegal.  They have a lot of messed up laws which is one reason I left.

You violated the CCW law, I'm not sure what type of charge comes with that.  The website you need to look at is http://www.michiganlegislature.org/ but it's down right now.

Do you know if you were charged with a felony?  Rumor has it a couple years ago when the Michigan Attorney General ruled that out of state non-resident CCW permits were invalid in Michigan.  There was a case where a guy with a non-resident Florida CCW who was caught speeding, the cop found the gun, they arrested him and sent him to jail for 2 years.

Hopefully you will get a good judge who recognizes this as a bunch of BS and is wasting valuable court time and you get off with a fine.

Here is another thing about Michigan.  A 3.5 inch knive is a CCW violation but Michigan's CCW law specificly states it only applies to pistols.

Even if you have a CCW in Michigan you could still be charged with a CCW violation, although it would probably be thrown out in court.

That state is full of a bunch of liberals Democrats now.  The next governor will most likely be a Democrat who is hardcore anti-gun.  Meanwhile the largest gun group in Michigan, MCRGO, went on a big power trip firing their executive director who is also a lawyer and turned a profitable fully operating corporation back into a work from your garage organization because they wanted to take all the credit for passing the crappy CCW law that they do have even though none of them actually participated in the process.

Your kidding right?

You honestly believe that I deserve to be treated like a criminal for carrying a pocket knife? You think I'm lucky that the FBI didn't get involved!? WTF

.
.
.
.

do you call yourself an American?

Did they make you sign a piece of paper saying that they read you your rights?

Even if they did read you your rights, if you didn't sign that piece of paper you'll get off. If you signed that piece of paper, you cant say they didn't read you your rights.

All this airport security crap needs to stop, If I wanted to HIJACK A PLANE (criminal mind at work) I would pull out a gun, run right through the metal detectors, down the terminal and on to the plane.

lets see security stop that.

Actually I've seen this defense used in court successfully alot of the time with a person with a clean record.  Of course your odds go down if it doesn't work with the cops first and they actually arrest you.

And after your lawyer gets you cleared, GET YOUR FINGERPRINT INFO BACK from the police, and get your record cleared.

I didn't sign anything, I didn't read anything, I didn't write anything.

~~~ TheMeth0d

Gee, how stupid do you have to be to be caught by airport security??? No offense, just kidding. But after seeing those 2 reporters that took box cutters on like 12 flights without getting caught and that other guy that brought in 15 pounds of uranium (depleted)from Russia all the way down Europe to Turkey and then to New York by ship, give me a freaking break. Security is a joke, there is no real security, only something that looks like security. Who the hell cares about some guy  that forget to put up his pocket knife, he should have been slapped on the wrist, told to give up the knife or put in luggage and carry on. But I guess the security idiots are just so happy to catch someone that they will force prosecution just for the stats.

I did some traveling a few weeks ago and the bullshit that I saw was amazing. I was searched 3 times before getting on the flight (random) while camel smelling Adbul Muhammed, he even had a freaking turban on his head, was not bothered in the least. I am Irish and look it, did they think the freaking IRA was in town, did they forget about all the freaking towel-heads that did the hijackings? Makes me want to chew my arm off in frustration. What the fvck is the point?

And Jarhead - from one marine to another - stop defending bullshit & clusterfvcks, what happened to this guy is bullshit.

Exactly the point I've attempted to make.  

Their efforts, on the whole, are in vain.  Determined, resourceful, and well-trained tango types will get the shit through the bullshit excuse for security we have now.  

And they want to throw away the key on Method.  

[size=6]They are confiscating 2" plastic toy guns![/size=6]  

Say it over and over again, like a mantra, until their stupidity sinks into your thick skull.  

What they are doing IS NOT REAL!!!  IT'S A SHOW for the sheeple.  

Goddammit, issue EVERYONE ON THE PLANE A GUN!   See how many hijackings you have then!

Beware of free Internet legal advice.  Its value is worth its cost.

I’m not a lawyer either, but I’m pretty certain you should have been given a Miranda warning after being arrested and before questioning.  

If you weren’t, any incriminating statements made by you while in custody cannot be used against you (i.e., cannot be allowed into evidence in a trial).  [b]However, you can still be prosecuted![/b]

I have no doubt the LEO checked your knife into evidence at the station house.  Why in world would they arrest you and then lose the evidence that both the prosecutor and judge are going to demand to see?  LEA’s have detailed procedures for handling evidence, it is not something that is taken lightly.

Given that apparently the knife was being carried illegally, I seriously doubt you have any chance of getting it back.  (Any arguments about the stupidly of the law are a different issue.)

Anyway, wish you luck with this.  It definitely seems folks have over-reacted.  Still, like it or not, things in this country have changed.

And - to wander a bit off topic - to my mind, racial profiling would make it easier for terrorists to successfully hijack a plane!

Edited to change trail to trial - definately not the same thing!

I have a problem with a bunch of people, who don't speak english very well and probably entered the country illegally, enforcing the law.

The hijackers could have been stopped, except for the airlines policy of giving in to their demands w/o resistance. Flight 93 was already under the contol of the terrorists before the passengers fought back. Had it been up to the passengers, it never would have happened in the first place, they proved that.

Airport security is useless harassment, it is little more than institutionalized paranoia. For all the tweezers, fingernail clippers, hemostats, pliers, cuticle scissors, toys, fingernail polish, bullet keychains, military decorations, butane lighters and pocketknives that get confiscated, the guns and bombs still get through. There isn't even a standard list of illegal items, they can (and do) take whatever they please.

Bombs can be built with no metallic content. Any terrorist who wants to blow up a plane can do so whenever they wish, airport security or not. There are small, airtight, gasket-sealed plastic containers that could be vaccuum-sealed and fit in a jacket pocket.

The law you broke shouldn't even exist. It does, and you have to deal with it, but it is pointless. The bad guys will use sharpened Executive Letter Openers when they need a plane.

I remember going camping a few years ago. Everybody had the lastest in folding knives, while I had my old survival knife that I was issued in the Army. When it came time to start opening cans, I used my knife, while they put away theirs and went rummaging for a can opener. I was just showing off, I had a P38 on my keychain.

I hate to say this but you are facing a felony here. A CCW violation is a felony in most states and more than likely because you had the weapon at an airport the prosecution may decide to stack the charges. I know someone who had a similar situation and got six months with six months on the shelf to speak and an additional five years probation for having a knife with a 3.75" blade on his person.
Don't take this lightly but instead start researching now and talk to some lawyers. If they do stack the charges and offer a plea bargain then perhaps they really don't have much on you. The greatest thing you have going for you now is the fact that they did not read you your rights- this alone could be your ticket to freedom. Also don't trust a lawyer without doing your own homework.
I know how you feel because if you are not sick by now then you are one tough SOB. If they sent you an order to appear in court what exactly is the charge? Your lawyer also has a right to obtain all records and paperwork the prosecution has in their possession. You may also have your lawyer examine the evidence collection.
Also drag this out as long as possible since no statements can now be used against you without the reading of rights- it comes down to your word versus the officers. Eventually they may decide not to show up since it interferes with their schedule.
You may get time for this but I pray not. God be with you.

First of all let clear one thing up... Murdering freaks come in all shapes, sizes and colors. I sympaphize with your situation but the law is the law. After 9/11 we have to be more careful than ever and if me and everyone else that gets on a plane has to do so unarmed then I dont want to see one a@@hole on the side of me with a damned knife. My first reaction would be an elbow to the nose, then heel to the forehead. The first reaction is "it was just a small knife"... well look what a few motivated individuals can do with a small box cutter. when airport security fails everyone comes down on them BUT when they catch an "innocent" person carrying a deadly weapon onto a plane then they are jerks

they are not supposed to pick good guys with knives from bad guys with knives, anyone with a knife getting onto an airplane is a bad guy.

as far as being too hard... what if they just let anyone getting onto a plane with a knive go with a slap on the wrist and confiscate the knive? hell, anyone would be willing to sneak a knive on the plane knowing there would be no consequences. they have to use consequences to make people THINK before doing something like bringing weapons on planes.

You have my sympathy BUT I do not dissagree with the charges. I am glad they are actually trying to do their jobs and keep me and my family safe from harm. as far as " I am a white male, I am a harmless american" goes... how many white males have killed schoolyards full of children? how many young white males have been responsible for blowing up government buildings in oklahoma? how about all the towel heads bombing abortion clinics? I am not trying to put down white people, as I am a white male who bleeds red, white and blue, but realize terror comes in all colors and I dont feel any safer with a white guy on the side of me in the plane with a knife then I do a camel jockey.

sorry if I offended anyone but I just couldnt let this post slide.


I wish you the best of luck in court. just bring lots of $$$$ because thats what it boils down to at the courthouse level.

I believe the Miranda is only required once you are in [b]custody[/b].  You might be surprised the kind of things than can be happening between you and the police, and quess what, you aren't in [b]custody[/b], you're being [b]detained[/b].

Frankly, if I were in volved with airport security, I would probably be pretty damn tired of people who "forgot" that they had prohibited items.   I don't doubt that it happens a LOT more often than it should.  About the 10th time each day that it happened, I would be losing my charitable mood, and want to make sure that the violator had enough serious impact to get it into the brain that this is serious stuff.

The time that is spent with people who just didn't have the presence of mind to make sure they're not carrying contraband into the secure area, is time that the staff is NOT spending looking out for real terrorists.

They don't have time for this sh*t!!!

In spite of the inconvenience you suffered, I think you were very fortunate to not miss your airplane, or even spend the night hoping they sprayed the pillow and mattress or listening to the laughs as you answer the question, "What are you in for?"

Somehow I get the idea they wanted you to learn a lesson from this.  After reading your various posts,  I'm not sure you're there yet.

Reading comprehension problem, too? Bign [b]NEVER[/b] said the FBI [b]SHOULD[/b] have been called. Just that they could have been called......


Scott

What message is it exactly that am I suppose to "get"?

The fact that I can be arrested, jailed and prosecuted at will and at MY OWN EXPENSE for carrying a pocket knife.

Believe me, looking at $2000+ for a lawyer, air fare, and whatever the fines and penalties will be... The point is painfully obvious, I DO NOT have any right to carry a pocket knife with me. And we call this the land of the free?

I don't even have any money! I'm going into debt because of this. yet we call this justice?

A good quote comes to mind...

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


IMHO the pseudo-safety provided by the airport security check points is a feel good device, and aparently a good way to catch someone like me and turn me into an insta-criminal, because I assure you, any criminal with a plan and intent on taking over an airplane or whatever is going to be smart enough NOT to walk through a metal detector with the knife in their pocket.



To address your comment there about wasting the security persons time, and why their actions were justified because they shouldn't have to deal with "people like me"...

When I fly on an airplane I am not only paying the airplane company, I am paying the airport, and what ever else I get charged for, so I expect a little common courtesy and respect when I am a customer and the people be it security or otherwise who I am dealing with are the ones who I am supporting for them to even have a job. THEY DAMN WELL BETTER BE GRATEFUL that I am even willing to travel by plane.

~~~ TheMeth0d

HELLO!! Reading comprehension problem... look who is talking, did I say "SHOULD"?

~~~ TheMeth0d

My sentiment exactly.

~~~ TheMeth0d

Yeah, that's the point.  When you break the rules, there are consequences (whether you agree with the rules or not).



So you don't think the crack addict who carjacked a soccer-mon should be prosecuted either, since HE has no money?  What the hell does your financial situation have to do with justice?  Nothing, so stop whining about it.



That's great - except Ben was talking about society in general (and is absolutely right), but not the PRIVILEDGE of flying on commercial airliners.  You choose to give up rights when you enter the airport - and it is your choice.



Are you making the argument that they're just prosecuting "innocent victims" like you, and not even bothering to look for "real criminals".  Get real - they're trying, just not always doing the greatest job.



You except common courtesy and respect - from airlines??? Have you EVER flown on a US airline before?  I fly all the time, and I expect nothing other than rudeness, incompetence and surliness.

Are you the kind of guy that tells the cop that just pulled you over for going 50 in a 25 that "I pay your salary"?  The argument doesn't work then, and it's not working here.  The security people are NOT working for you, and you are NOT their "customer"


Now, I completely agree that they over-reacted, and I do think you're getting a rought deal.  BUT, the end fact remains that this whole situation was CAUSED by you.  

The rules are SIMPLE - all you had to do was follow them.

[img]http://www.satirewire.com/images/chart/screener.gif[/img]

The rules are simple all you had to do was follow them........right this way to the showers....we were only following orders....we didn't do anything when they came for the catholics...........the downward spiral accelerates and you fascists cheer it on.....

You're fuckin "A" right I do [:D]

OK folks sure do get sensitive around here.

Maybe I was just long winded or misunderstood.  I'm no writer...

The point is, that once "they" were satisfied you were no terrorist or any shit like that, "they" should've checked or confiscated your knife, and maybe a be careful next time or whatever.  That should have been that.

Now after a few more posts I have no idea if conceiling said pocket knife was illegal or not.  If it is, it shouldn't be, and hauling you off in cuffs to the stationhouse was eccesive to say the least .

"They", from above, is to mean the airport sec. or the FBI, whoever. "They" have a responsibility to investigate to be sure you're no threat.  As someone said above john walker lind (SOB) cleaned himself up, he'd look just like we do....  

BUT once they're sure there's no threat, why push the issue and make a scene, haul folks to jail, etc?????


 

I did, from the (re-quoted) statements way at the very top, it seemed to me that you were of the opinion that he deserved to be hauled to jail for the ofense......

If this wasn't your opinion, I apologize.
If you do think he deserved it, then I do question your definition of freedom.......

Is this what we're going to post when members start getting busted when guns are banned, "dude, you're dumb you shoulda got yer fingerprints and XYZ license and BATF tax stamp and ABC permit, you deserve what you get!" meanwhile posting in another thread about what they're going to do when the "SHTF".  

Let me get this strAight, I'm a fascist because I don't want to join a sympathy-party for someone who broke well-advertised rules?

Since when is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and accountability fascism?

Your analogy is disturbing, to compare the prosecution of a car jacking crack addict vs. a person who has made an honest mistake.

It is an injustice that I should have to endure prosecution over something like this.

[i]"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."[/i] - Martin Luther King



Are you suggesting that this type of behavior is appropriate and acceptable? I wasn't stating the way it is, I'm suggesting it's the way it should be.



I was never my intent to argue that the situation was not caused by me, for it clearly was. My point is however that I had no recourse once I discovered the knife was in my pocket. Perhaps I am the only one who has ever forgotten my wallet at home?

~~~ TheMeth0d


Murphy's Military Laws - If your advance is going well, you are walking into an ambush.

I understand that you feel victimized, but the fact that a crime was the result of an "honest mistake" creates a grey area.  Should all crimes that result from "honest mistakes" jsut be excused?  Where's the line between "honest mistake" and negligence or incompetence (not in your case, but in others.)

I'm a BIG believer in personal responsibility and accountability (which apparently makes me a fascist, according to some on this site), and I believe that people have to be accountable for their misdeeds - even if they are originally caused by an honest mistake.



Sorry you didn't like my analogy - but my point was just to draw attention to the fact that whether or not you have money to pay for all of this is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.  

Here it is... The one that got me SB-502: [url]http://www.michiganlegislature.org/documents/2001-2002/publicact/htm/2001-PA-0225.htm[/url]



Quotes below are from:
[url]http://www.michiganvotes.org/2001-SB-502[/url]
and also
[url]http://www.heritage.com/dtw050102/story4.htm[/url]




~~~ TheMeth0d

[Edited to fix links]

I do have two comments about the post I just made.

First, I believe that law hastily made is bad law and, unfortunately, there is no law against bad law, so long as it is law. It is my opinion that SB-502 was hastily made and has resulted in turning honest american citizens into criminals.
Second, I maintain that I have been victim of an unjust law and would like to quote [url=http://www.freedomsnest.com/heirob.html]Robert Heinlein[/url] - [i]"No intelligent man has any respect for an unjust law."[/i]

Thank you all who have posted opinions favorable or not, and to those that have wished me well, I thank you again. I will let you all know as my case progresses.

~~~ TheMeth0d

You are indeed correct, it is a butt-stupid law.  


And the last time I checked, mistake of fact is still a valid legal defense.