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Posted: 9/11/2002 7:57:21 PM EDT
Time for a rant: I'm angry that the terrorists flew the planes into the WTC, the Pentagon, and Somerset County; I'm angry that the government has taken advantage of the attacks to increase its power and decrease our liberty; I'm angry that the government took actions which led to the attacks; I'm angry at those who supported those actions; I'm angry that the government has learned nothing, NOTHING, from the attacks; I'm angry that the government has done nothing, NOTHING, to stop terrorism and its resulting death; I'm angry that the government is causing more death, and is looking to cause still more death in other countries; and I'm angry that some people support taking liberties to defend liberties.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 8:11:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2002 8:13:18 PM EDT by Canooger]
Iran hostages, If Jimmy Carter would have wacked'em hard things might have been different. Achille Lauro Pan Am 103, Oh did I forget to mention that they killed my cousin Colleen Brunner on that one? The Trade Towers episode one The Trade Towers episode two The African Embasy attacks The Pentagon Flight 93 Oh that's right flight 800 was'nt hit by a surface to air missile, those eye witnesses were wrong. The USS Cole Fill in the gaps for me. The US Declaration of Independence tells us excactly when to rise up against an oppressive government- Is'nt the above enough to fill anyone's list that we must fight this enemy? We need to take the fight out of these nations that produce/sponsor these evildoers. We need Teddy R and some gunboats. Not Neville Chamberlin and His Aquiesing Turds.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 8:25:14 PM EDT
You should be angry at yourself for being an observer of life, instead of a participant. Please change your lead-in from "time for a rant" to "time for a whine". You have no idea what real anger is, unless of course, your friends have been blown up or assassinated, like mine have. You are a young kid, yes? Get out of the bleachers and get on the playing field. It will be good for you.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 8:30:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2002 8:31:56 PM EDT by MickeyMouse]
[b]I'm angry that the terrorists flew the planes into the WTC, the Pentagon, and Somerset County;[/b] Anyone fit to call themselves civilized should be mad as hell! [b]I'm angry that the government has taken advantage of the attacks to increase its power and decrease our liberty;[/b] No argument on that! [b]I'm angry that the government took actions which led to the attacks;[/b] It was their LACK of action that led to the attacks! Failing to blow hell out of Iran over the hostages being a prime example. Many other examples exist. [b]I'm angry at those who supported those actions;[/b] I am angry at the cowards and traitors that want to blame America for being the victim of uncivilized maniacs. I am angry at those elected officials who violated their oath to defend this country by failing to attack our enemies each time an act of war has been perpetrated against us. [b]I'm angry that the government has learned nothing, NOTHING, from the attacks;[/b] Got to agree with this one. They STILL have not responded with adequate violence and MASS death and destruction against these vermin! [b]I'm angry that the government has done nothing, NOTHING, to stop terrorism and its resulting death;[/b] Nothing may be a little strong but they have surely failed to do enough! [b]I'm angry that the government is causing more death, and is looking to cause still more death in other countries;[/b] It is the lack of ENOUGH death in enemy countries that is the problem! [b]and I'm angry that some people support taking liberties to defend liberties.[/b] If you are refering to OUR liberties, I agree!
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 10:02:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2002 10:04:40 PM EDT by Kaiser_Soze]
Originally Posted By libertyof76: Time for a rant: I'm angry that the terrorists flew the planes into the WTC, the Pentagon, and Somerset County;
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Agreed, I'm even more peeved that those people were disarmed. For the want of a few dozen good quality .38 revolvers with Glaser slugs... Armed citizens might have simply prevented hijackings altogether.
I'm angry that the government has taken advantage of the attacks to increase its power and decrease our liberty;
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If history is any guide, it will only get worse. As long as no one stops them, they'll keep pushing and pushing...
I'm angry that the government took actions which led to the attacks;
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Not sure what actions you mean, but for me its our constant meddling in other countries affairs. We need to stop all government sponsored foreign aid and intervention immediately and declare strict neutrality.
I'm angry at those who supported those actions;
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Assassination politics would take care of them.
I'm angry that the government has learned nothing, NOTHING, from the attacks;
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Ohhhh, talk about hitting the nail on the head!
I'm angry that the government has done nothing, NOTHING, to stop terrorism and its resulting death;
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Stay out of other countries affairs and empower (meaning ARM) the citizens. Don't punish US for the actions of foreigners.
I'm angry that the government is causing more death, and is looking to cause still more death in other countries;
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Amen brother. As Charley Reese so eloquently put it, "You can't kill your way out of a terrorism problem". If you could, Israel would be the safest place on Earth.
and I'm angry that some people support taking liberties to defend liberties.
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This is the easy way out. Americans don't want to take the high road of policing their own government, staying out of "entangling alliances" and defending themselves by force from enemies foreign and domestic.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 10:08:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2002 10:08:31 PM EDT by mattja]
You forgot to add you're angry for living in a nation that is the "rapist of the world." That was your quote, if I recall correctly, right? I'm angry there is no way to filter out your posts.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 3:14:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mattja: I'm angry there is no way to filter out your posts.
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Damn, you said it. I am angry that he has neglected his education to the point where he believes this idiotic crap.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 5:01:40 AM EDT
Libertyof76, I agree with you 100%. My anger is aimed mostly at the State Department for their interventionist foreign policy that made us the target of terrorism. Stick your nose where it don't belong enough times, and someone is gonna chop it off! Second, my anger is directed at Congress for taking away our rights to defend ourselves and making us sheep for the wolves. Land of the Free and Home of the Brave? Not anymore......
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 5:07:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2002 6:25:40 AM EDT by TheRicker]
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 5:12:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 5:15:38 AM EDT
I am angry about the blame America crowd that infest this thread!!
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 6:25:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 6:42:48 AM EDT
I'm most pissed about the fact that I can't personally have a terrorist in my AR's sight picture ! [x][x][marines][x][x]
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 7:00:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Canooger: The US Declaration of Independence tells us excactly when to rise up against an oppressive government- Is'nt the above enough to fill anyone's list that we must fight this enemy?
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maybe i'm a little confused on the point the DoI was making with that little quote, but i don't believe it refers to [i]foreign[/i] governments. it was, i believe, referring to our own government (particularly at that time to justify the rebellion against the British Crown, but it sets well for any future need). but i agree that we should go after the bastages that attack us.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 7:24:08 AM EDT
So liberal76, are you the same kid who was a mod here for a short time and still in some college learning all about how evil America is ?? Would that be a govt funded school ?? [b]Originally posted by liberal76: I'm angry that the government has done nothing, NOTHING, to stop terrorism and its resulting death; I'm angry that the government is causing more death, and is looking to cause still more death in other countries [/b] How can you make the first statement above and follow it with the second ?? The military [b]is[/b] causing death in other countries in order to stop terrorism and it's resulting death. I hope you can get a refund on that money spent on college, cuz it seems it was wasted.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 8:56:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By omar: You should be angry at yourself for being an observer of life, instead of a participant. Please change your lead-in from "time for a rant" to "time for a whine". You have no idea what real anger is, unless of course, your friends have been blown up or assassinated, like mine have.
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I am a participant- I vote and I speak my mind and the truth. Unless by participant you mean fight in the Imperial Army to further the Empire of America, and kill innocent people for no good reason. That I WILL NOT do.
You are a young kid, yes? Get out of the bleachers and get on the playing field. It will be good for you.
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Yes, I am "young", but that has nothing to do with it. Older people believe the same as me. And I am out on the playing field.
Originally Posted By mattja: You forgot to add you're angry for living in a nation that is the "rapist of the world." That was your quote, if I recall correctly, right?
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Yes, and I stand by that statement. Sadly I never got to defend myself in that topic
I'm angry there is no way to filter out your posts.
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Sure you can. You just don't click on my topics. DUH! [:P]
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: I am angry about the blame America crowd that infest this thread!!
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We are NOT blaming "America", as in the whole of America. We are blaming the Government of America. The people didn't bring this on themselves, but the government helped(not intentionally mind you, but the dead don't care about intentions)
Originally Posted By SPECTRE: So [red][s]liberal76[/s]- LIBERTYOF76[/red], are you the same kid who was a mod here for a short time and still in some college learning all about how evil America is ?? Would that be a govt funded school ??
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For starters, I am not, nor shall I ever be a MODERN liberal. I AM a classic liberal, however. The people at my college rail about how evil America is. What they mean is how evil America's IDEALS are. I strongly disagree with that. I do think America's GOVERNMENT is bad overall, with some evil men in there(Daschle, et al). It is a government school, but I figure I am getting some of my tax money back. Its not near as good as having it in the first place, and my tax money goes to other undesirable places("social equity" aka affirmative action being one) I fight daily against the constant modern liberal bias here. Against the anti-liberty and anti-moral ideas. [b]Originally posted by [red][s]liberal76[/s]- LIBERTYOF76[/red]: I'm angry that the government has done nothing, NOTHING, to stop terrorism and its resulting death; I'm angry that the government is causing more death, and is looking to cause still more death in other countries [/b] How can you make the first statement above and follow it with the second ??
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Because what they are doing is does NOT stop terrorism, but only begets more.
The military [b]is[/b] causing death in other countries in order to stop terrorism and it's resulting death.
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No its not. Its creating more terrorists and more reason to hate America.
I hope you can get a refund on that money spent on college, cuz it seems it was wasted.
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I learned none of this at college. I learned this by following the logic of what the Founders believed: "Let us steer clear of foreign entanglements..."-George Washington.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 9:09:39 AM EDT
[b]Originally posted by [red]liberal76:[/red] I am a participant- I vote and I speak my mind and the truth. Unless by participant you mean fight in the Imperial Army to further the Empire of America, and kill innocent people for no good reason. That I WILL NOT do.[/b] Imperial army ??? Your statement makes me sick. You're a punk kid who does'nt have a clue.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 10:19:00 AM EDT
Matt, I'm surprised that after the pictures and story I shared with you that you feel this way. I thought I had some impact, no matter how slight on you. [:(] Having been a kid that was picked on because I was quiet, I know that turning the cheek leads to two red cheeks. To survive, we must kill, its just what these people realize. When an Afghan was told about the WTC attack, he only said that buildings get destroyed, its how groups put pressure (kill opposition) on eachother. How can we fight fire with words against them? They are willing to die for their cause, in other words, we must neutralize them before they can kill you or me or our families. Think of it like wiping out a disease, because that is what it is. Greg
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 10:23:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2002 11:36:17 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
Exactly. They don't want to kill us because of what we DO, overseas. They want to kill us because of WHO WE ARE. You, Matt, more than anyone should understand this. Remember when you were in High School, Matt? Remember how people used to pick on you, and mess with you? They didn't do it because you were "sticking your nose" into their business. They picked on you because of who YOU were. The terrorists will always mess with us because of who we are -a pluralist, western civilization.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 10:58:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By libertyof76:
Originally Posted By mattja: You forgot to add you're angry for living in a nation that is the "rapist of the world." That was your quote, if I recall correctly, right?
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Yes, and I stand by that statement. Sadly I never got to defend myself in that topic
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Well, son, here's your chance. WTF does THAT mean?
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 11:32:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 11:41:05 AM EDT
(edited)
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 11:44:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2002 11:49:18 AM EDT by smarty_pants]
Originally Posted By libertyof76: Time for a rant: I'm angry that the terrorists flew the planes into the WTC, the Pentagon, and Somerset County; I'm angry that the government has taken advantage of the attacks to increase its power and decrease our liberty; I'm angry that the government took actions which led to the attacks; I'm angry at those who supported those actions; I'm angry that the government has learned nothing, NOTHING, from the attacks; I'm angry that the government has done nothing, NOTHING, to stop terrorism and its resulting death; I'm angry that the government is causing more death, and is looking to cause still more death in other countries; and I'm angry that some people support taking liberties to defend liberties.
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You know.....................f*it it would take to much time I can you don't understad anyway[rolleyes] PS. I can't help myself,I just have to add that the only people in America to blame 9/11 on are people who spend more time being pissed at the Feds than rooting out evil muzzy wack-jobs.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 11:47:32 AM EDT
"The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who Is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost invariably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And if he is not romantic personally, he is apt to spread discontent among those who are ." H.L. MENCKEN
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 11:48:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2002 11:50:26 AM EDT by ARH]
Posted by Liberty of 76 "I am a participant- I vote and I speak my mind and the truth. Unless by participant you mean fight in the Imperial Army to further the Empire of America, and kill innocent people for no good reason. That I WILL NOT do."
You have a front row seat to your own colon. ARH
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 11:52:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: "The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who Is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost invariably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And if he is not romantic personally, he is apt to spread discontent among those who are ." H.L. MENCKEN
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For this and many other reasons, Mencken was a genius of political saavy.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 12:26:46 PM EDT
Too true, too true! Another smart guy: "The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact than a drunken man is happier than a sober one." GEORGE BERNARD SHAW
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 2:46:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 3:10:07 PM EDT
Just as there were those who opposed US entry into WWII who caused millions of more deaths by their stupidity,we have an infestation of similar misguided individuals here. It is simple. Either blame the victim (US) or blame the perpetrator (19 moslem men and their supporters). WHich do YOU hold responsible for the mass murder of 9/11? Pick ONE!
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 3:26:43 PM EDT
I wonder what this country would be like if GarandMan and Liberty76 were in charge? We would have no oil, no diversity, and no economy. Folks, this is why liberals shouldn't be allowed to post....for the sane children. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 3:50:10 PM EDT
While I am not happy with the amount of money we give to nations all over the world, I do not believe that this is the cause of the terrorist attacks. By believing (some of) the terrorists when they say that this is all about Israel, you must inherently believe that they are actually reasonable people who would quiet down if only we would stop supporting Israel. If only we would stop giving money to a tiny state in the corner of the middle east, a nation that occupies a fraction of the land, they would be peaceful? I don't buy it. As was said in a previous thread, there is not a single person living on this planet who did not (personally, or his ancestors) steal that land from someone else. But only the Arabs swear an oath to drive every Jew into the sea for over 50 years now, despite their total failure to do so. Israel occupies a tiny corner of the middle east, they have given back much of the land they won in war (wars started by, and lost by, the Arabs), they have never even hinted at (to my knowledge) taking control of the vast oil fields of the other nations. Yet 9/11 is a reasonable act for the Arabs because they want Israel out? I don't buy it. They are attacking us because of who we are. Because we are a free nation that doesn't force everyone to adhere to Islamic law. Because we have the most powerful economy and the highest standard of living in the world with our freedom, but their Islamic law chains them to a stone-age sandpit. They are jealous of what we have, and if they can't take it, they will try to destroy it and take us down to their level. The only possible reply is to attack them with such rage and fury that they might start to realize that messing with us isn't such a great idea, something that we have failed to do for many years now.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 5:47:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Balzac72: Matt, I'm surprised that after the pictures and story I shared with you that you feel this way. I thought I had some impact, no matter how slight on you. [:(]
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They DID have an impact: That is why I am angry.
They are willing to die for their cause, in other words, we must neutralize them before they can kill you or me or our families. Think of it like wiping out a disease, because that is what it is. Greg
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We can neutralize them, but we don't need mass violence to do that.
Originally Posted By SPECTRE: [b]Originally posted by [red]libertyof76:[/red] I am a participant- I vote and I speak my mind and the truth. Unless by participant you mean fight in the Imperial Army to further the Empire of America, and kill innocent people for no good reason. That I WILL NOT do.[/b] Imperial army ??? Your statement makes me sick. You're a punk kid who does'nt have a clue.
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If it makes you sick then YOU don't have a clue. I am NOT disparaging those who serve, but their leaders. They make the decisions.
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Exactly. They don't want to kill us because of what we DO, overseas. They want to kill us because of WHO WE ARE.
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Bull. They have given very specific reason why they hate us. It is NOT because of who we are, but because of what our government does.
You, Matt, more than anyone should understand this. Remember when you were in High School, Matt? Remember how people used to pick on you, and mess with you? They didn't do it because you were "sticking your nose" into their business. They picked on you because of who YOU were.
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Well, I never was picked on with any regularity, at least not in high school. There was a few times in 6th grade, but I put a stop to that pretty quickly.
Originally Posted By DScott:
Originally Posted By libertyof76:
Originally Posted By mattja: You forgot to add you're angry for living in a nation that is the "rapist of the world." That was your quote, if I recall correctly, right?
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Yes, and I stand by that statement. Sadly I never got to defend myself in that topic
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Well, son, here's your chance. WTF does THAT mean?
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Well, tatjana made the analogy that we don't blame the rape victim for what the rapist does, with the rape victim being us and the rapist being the terrorist. I commented that the proper analogy was that we were the rapist and they the rape victim. In retrospect, it was a silly statement. I failed to discriminate between the victims of the acts and the US government. While the government is the "rapist" in other situations(such as the Iraq situation), in the attack the people who died were innocent, and were the rape victims. An improvement upon that analogy is this: Person A raped Person B. In response, Person B's brother killed Person A's brother. While the original rape was wrong, so was the murder. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: Just as there were those who opposed US entry into WWII who caused millions of more deaths by their stupidity,we have an infestation of similar misguided individuals here.
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Those who opposed US entry into WWII were very justified in their opposition. The war had nothing to do with us. The people who led us into the war caused millions of deaths by THEIR stupidity.
It is simple. Either blame the victim (US) or blame the perpetrator (19 moslem men and their supporters). WHich do YOU hold responsible for the mass murder of 9/11? Pick ONE!
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Of course the hijackers are directly responsible for the attacks. But the government gave them a reason. This is what many people failed to realize: I don't blame the people that died, I don't even think that the actions the hijackers took were justified. But I understand what motivated them. That understanding allows me to figure out an appropriate response to the problem.
Originally Posted By sgtar15: I wonder what this country would be like if GarandMan and Liberty76 were in charge? We would have no oil, no diversity, and no economy. Sgtar15
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We would have all the oil we need, and the economy would be great. This is because we would end many, many taxes and regulations.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 6:06:48 PM EDT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is simple. Either blame the victim (US) or blame the perpetrator (19 moslem men and their supporters). WHich do YOU hold responsible for the mass murder of 9/11? Pick ONE! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Of course the hijackers are directly responsible for the attacks. But the government gave them a reason.
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It was their twisted interpretation of the Koran that gave them their "reason" for attacking.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 6:09:38 PM EDT
Try and explain why 6 million dead jews and countless other innocent victims did not DEMAND the US enter the war!!!! I am sure the NAZIs among us did not want the US to enter either. I have no desire to understand the thoughts of the insane. The reasons that motivated the vermin who attacked us and started this war are of no interest to me. Civilized people do not do that nor do sane people DEFEND them. Liberal of 76, go to NY at WTC site and spout your nonsense. I want to see your face after it gets rearranged. [b]I some times think college BOYS need to engage their brain before throwing mouth in gear!!!!!!!!!!![/b] WTF makes kids in school think they are so damn smart? Maybe the fact they are cowards trying to avoid having to fight for their country?
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 6:34:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By libertyof76: In retrospect, it was a silly statement. I failed to discriminate between the victims of the acts and the US government. While the government is the "rapist" in other situations(such as the Iraq situation), in the attack the people who died were innocent, and were the rape victims.
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No, in the Iraq situation, Kuwait was the rape victim, Iraq was the rapist and the US government was a concerned citizen/police officer who was called for help. Iraq was punished and then put on parole/probation...they have violated parole and thus must be punished again. Happy to help correct your faulty analogies.
Those who opposed US entry into WWII were very justified in their opposition. The war had nothing to do with us. The people who led us into the war caused millions of deaths by THEIR stupidity.
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You know who you remind me of, libbie? You remind me of the neighbors of Kitty Genovese. They heard her being stabbed to death over a period of well over an HOUR...in which the killer returned several times to make sure he finished her off...and yet did nothing. They didn't try to intervene, they didn't call the cops, they did NOTHING. Because it was "none of their business." You would have done the same thing, because you're a moral coward.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 6:55:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2002 6:57:54 PM EDT by libertyof76]
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: Try and explain why 6 million dead jews and countless other innocent victims did not DEMAND the US enter the war!!!! I am sure the NAZIs among us did not want the US to enter either.
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Nonetheless, it did not affect us and we had no duty nor power to intervene. I will note however that WWII would not have been fought had we stayed out of WWI.
I have no desire to understand the thoughts of the insane. The reasons that motivated the vermin who attacked us and started this war are of no interest to me. Civilized people do not do that nor do sane people DEFEND them.
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I am not defending them. I am understanding them. Regardless of how wrong their beliefs are(even if they are insane), they believe them, and they are willing to die for them. To stop them, we MUST understand how they think.
Liberal of 76, go to NY at WTC site and spout your nonsense. I want to see your face after it gets rearranged.
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As if violence proves or disproves my position(for the thinking impaired: it has no relevance to it.)
[b]I some times think college BOYS need to engage their brain before throwing mouth in gear!!!!!!!!!!![/b]
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I think some people need to understand the consequences of their beliefs before they act upon them
WTF makes kids in school think they are so damn smart? Maybe the fact they are cowards trying to avoid having to fight for their country?
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I am not a coward. It takes a brave man to stand up against the crowd and proclaim the truth. I would be the first inline to defend my COUNTRY if it was under attack. I will NOT defend my GOVERNMENT however.
Originally Posted By RikWriter: No, in the Iraq situation, Kuwait was the rape victim, Iraq was the rapist and the US government was a concerned citizen/police officer who was called for help. Iraq was punished and then put on parole/probation...they have violated parole and thus must be punished again. Happy to help correct your faulty analogies.
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I wasn't talking about the Gulf war. I was talking about after the Gulf war. This whole rape situation is a faulty analogy anyway. We can't compare individuals to governments.
You know who you remind me of, libbie? You remind me of the neighbors of Kitty Genovese. They heard her being stabbed to death over a period of well over an HOUR...in which the killer returned several times to make sure he finished her off...and yet did nothing. They didn't try to intervene, they didn't call the cops, they did NOTHING. Because it was "none of their business." You would have done the same thing, because you're a moral coward.
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No, I would have run over there and saved her. You are comparing my beliefs on how GOVERNMENTS should act to how INDIVIDUALS should act. The two are not the same.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 7:21:24 PM EDT
Just for today I am angry that we all can't get along. That religion that you want to observed should be respected. That instead of one country wanting it all and their way is the only way gets me angry. I am angry that GOD IN HEAVEN on these Jewish High Holy Days has not come and intervene in this mess. It is time for people to realize destruction of a whole sect is not the answer. We need each others peaceful ideas to coexist. Until this is seen WAR will only be the answer instead of a dinner around a table. Now understand this is just for today how I feel...I do not want my son to have to know what death and dying or killing is about. Then get sent back to fend for himself. I am mad that they will not allow me to take his place, because I could deal with it better and with gods help survive. I am pissed we are going to be in the same place we are now, with different players and a still falling economy and high gas prices. AGAIN this is Just for Today...Pleasant Dreams
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 7:43:11 PM EDT
[b]Originally posted by liberal76: I would be the first inline to defend my COUNTRY if it was under attack. I will NOT defend my GOVERNMENT however[/b] Well sonny boy, if you don't think what happened on 9/11 was an attack on our country, then just what would you call it ?? Young punks like you are the poster children for mandatory military service. You spend your time holed up in your ivory towers at liberal universities looking for a way to badmouth your country.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 7:53:27 PM EDT
I'm angry that I still have to hear that somehow everything wrong with the world is America's fault. I'm angry that my country is referred to as the "rapist of the world" despite the millions of innocent people worldwide who owe their very lives to help sent, with no expectation of repayment, to countries whose governments didn't care enough about their own people to make sure they didn't starve to death. Never mind most of the countries we "raped" either asked for our help or acted aggressively toward their neighbors, who then asked for our help. Ignore the millions still owed to America by the very "allies" who's asses she pulled out of the fire no less than three times in the last century. I'm angry that my country enforces the resolutions of the UN, only to be criticized by the same organization that would be rendered impotent without America's military might standing behind it's decisions. I'm angry that people still think that all of America's problems can be solved simply by turning our back on the rest of the world, closing the borders, and recalling all of our military. Nobody seems to understand the effect that would have on an already weak economy I'm angry that, every time we are attacked, people tell me I have no right to be angry about it. After all, it's all our fault that a bunch of animals thought that the best way to change America's policies is to brutally butcher America's citizens, none of which have any say whatsoever in America's policies. To say that we can never end terrorism through military action is utter bullshit. We could make sure NO group of terrorists would be tolerated in any country if we were willing to make the price if terrorism too terrible to bear. Nuke just one terrorist camp and watch the support vanish. We will not do that, of course, because WE are the civilized half of the equation. We will never be totally rid of them, but we will make sure those who manage to strike us pay dearly for their actions. That will protect us far better than inaction ever could. If we compromise our principals or change our way of life to make those who would attack us happy, than the animals win. Their purported reasons for hating us and attacking us are a smokescreen, they lie about them as they lie about everything else. If they were honest about their reasons for hating us, it would be obvious that we can never have peace with them. It would be obvious that we will have to deal with them, be it sooner or later. Your country is by no means perfect and is in some cases led by men of corruption and questionable character, but it is still a damn sight better than anything else out there. It is still far better then the governments of our enemies and that is what make us such a threat to them. That is why their people are not allowed to see America as she is. That is why they so fear the truth. These are not people who can be reasoned with. They will not accept coexistence.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 8:32:26 PM EDT
I will note however that WWII would not have been fought had we stayed out of WWI.
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I will note that while WWII was linked to WWI, what would have happened had WWI not been fought is sheer speculation and cannot contribute to any argument.
I am not defending them. I am understanding them. Regardless of how wrong their beliefs are(even if they are insane), they believe them, and they are willing to die for them. To stop them, we MUST understand how they think.
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What makes you think you understand them so well? I think they are at the same time both jealous of our prosperity and reviled by our belief system. They only want to destroy us. I think the evidence supports this more plausibly then it supports the suggestion that it's all about our support of Israel. If they are just angry at what the government is doing, then why don't they attack government targets? Anyone with the most basic grasp of history knows that a savage act like attacking the WTC will only enrage the American people to action. Unless their only goal is to kill Americans and disrupt our economy.
You know who you remind me of, libbie? You remind me of the neighbors of Kitty Genovese. They heard her being stabbed to death over a period of well over an HOUR...in which the killer returned several times to make sure he finished her off...and yet did nothing. They didn't try to intervene, they didn't call the cops, they did NOTHING. Because it was "none of their business." You would have done the same thing, because you're a moral coward.
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No, I would have run over there and saved her. You are comparing my beliefs on how GOVERNMENTS should act to how INDIVIDUALS should act. The two are not the same.
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How is ignoring a woman being stabbed to death next door different from ignoring the slaughter of over 10 [b]million[/b] people across the ocean?
WTF makes kids in school think they are so damn smart? Maybe the fact they are cowards trying to avoid having to fight for their country?
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Why are you all knocking college so much? Not everyone is a Liberal nutcase. The skills we are learning are just as valuable to our country as the millitary is. Where would the millitary be if we didn't have the skills to build M1A2 tanks, nuclear powered submarines and aircraft carriers, Aegis cruisers, Apache helicopters, F15 fighters, and lots of M16 rifles? Not to mention an economy that can fund it all while still giving our citizens the highest standard of living in the world? If you don't like what libertyof76 is saying, then debate the arguments. Don't just flame people for being college students.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 9:30:26 PM EDT
The 9/11 WTC/Pentagon attacks was really bad for the USA, but there is a fip side; it showed that there are still thinking individuals, instead of brain-dead sheeple. In the past, the govt would have said, "you as an ordinary person on the street, are not qualified to do this; leave it to a professional trained by your government for this." But one you must admit, those hijackers were thinking outside of the box. For years I have been trying to convince people that a car, fork, etc can be a deadly weapon just as a firearm, but the reply from skeptics was that, "naw, they originally were not designed to be weapons." The Boeing 757 was not designed as weapon, but the hijackers manage to turn non-weapon, into a weapon of mass destruction, i.e. a flying bomb.
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 1:35:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By libertyof76:
Originally Posted By SPECTRE: [b]Originally posted by [red]libertyof76:[/red] I am a participant- I vote and I speak my mind and the truth. Unless by participant you mean fight in the Imperial Army to further the Empire of America, and kill innocent people for no good reason. That I WILL NOT do.[/b] Imperial army ??? Your statement makes me sick. You're a punk kid who does'nt have a clue.
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If it makes you sick then YOU don't have a clue. I am NOT disparaging those who serve, but their leaders. They make the decisions.
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No, you are disparaging all servicemen with your statements. You insinuate that we are all ignorant pawns of the imperialist government, and that we're just not as aware of this as YOU. Your suggestion means that they all served and died in vain. Don't insult us twice, by assuming we're too stupid know when we've been insulted. Try espousing this view down at the local VFW. You'll be spitting teeth.
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Exactly. They don't want to kill us because of what we DO, overseas. They want to kill us because of WHO WE ARE.
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Bull. They have given very specific reason why they hate us. It is NOT because of who we are, but because of what our government does.
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This demonstrates your very one-dimensional, fundamentalist view. You have a certain belief; that we should avoid "foreign entanglements". You then try to fit everything within your very, very narrow view. In doing so, you blame us for the 9/11 attacks. It's OUR fault, because they said so. They MUST be right, because it justifies your world-view. Nonsense. Your simplistic view of how things work in the world ignores the existence of religion, human nature, and evil. Your simplistic view is the product of someone who has obviously never travelled much. You only read books that support your already held beliefs (and these you narrowly interpret). And I'm willing to bet five bucks that you never played team sports. Very naive.
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 3:27:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By libertyof76: No, I would have run over there and saved her. You are comparing my beliefs on how GOVERNMENTS should act to how INDIVIDUALS should act. The two are not the same.
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No, because when ANOTHER government is raping and killing and maurauding, an INDIVIDUAL can't stop it...another government has to. You refuse to acknowledge reality...frankly, it seems because you're scared of it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 7:24:18 AM EDT
For GM there is little hope as he is old enough to know better. Judst grew up with his head so far up his butt he never saw the light. Liberal76 MIGHT get some sense if he will learn a little as he matures. Remains to be seen. [b]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: Try and explain why 6 million dead jews and countless other innocent victims did not DEMAND the US enter the war!!!! I am sure the NAZIs among us did not want the US to enter either. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nonetheless, it did not affect us and we had no duty nor power to intervene.[/b] Are you really that ignorant? Had the Nazis taken over the world, and that was their intent, do you REALLY think they would have ignored US? Where would we have had to use as bases in Europe? That detail aside, the decision was made for US on 7Dec41. Japan declard war on US, the note was just delayed. Would you have rolled over then too as I suspect and said "oh don't hurt me, I want to understand you"? I won't even get into the moral aspects of our participation in the war, the Jews take care of that just fine. In any event we sure as HELL had "the power"! American and British air power reduced Germany to rubble. American and allied troops rolled over that rubble quite effectively. American and Jewish scientists brought forth the nuclear age and completely broke the Japanese. THAT IS POWER! [b]I have no desire to understand the thoughts of the insane. The reasons that motivated the vermin who attacked us and started this war are of no interest to me. Civilized people do not do that nor do sane people DEFEND them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am not defending them. I am understanding them. Regardless of how wrong their beliefs are(even if they are insane), they believe them, and they are willing to die for them. To stop them, we MUST understand how they think.[/b] To try and understand them IS to defend them as it says there may be a just reason for mass murder! Yes, they ARE ready to die for their f***ed up beliefs. I am quite ready to help them do so. Those who are not, IMHO, are TRAITORS. To stop them we need to introduce them to death on a massive scale, horror beyond their comprehension. I don't give a rat's ass WHAT they think! [b]--------------------------------------------- Liberal of 76, go to NY at WTC site and spout your nonsense. I want to see your face after it gets rearranged. ------------------------------------------------ As if violence proves or disproves my position(for the thinking impaired: it has no relevance to it.)[/b] I am not advocating violence against you. You aren't worth the effort. I am pointing out that many people who lost friends and family at WTC, brave safety force personel and those who cleaned up that mess would have zero tolerance for a snot nosed kid telling them to try and "understand" the vermin who commited this unspeakable act of war. [b]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I some times think college BOYS need to engage their brain before throwing mouth in gear!!!!!!!!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think some people need to understand the consequences of their beliefs before they act upon them[/b] Meaning what? I might suggest you do the same! [b]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WTF makes kids in school think they are so damn smart? Maybe the fact they are cowards trying to avoid having to fight for their country? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am not a coward. It takes a brave man to stand up against the crowd and proclaim the truth. I would be the first inline to defend my COUNTRY if it was under attack. I will NOT defend my GOVERNMENT however.[/b] WTF do you call 9/11, a love fest? That was the sneak attack that started a war you.....(bite tongue firmly)! I am not defending my government here, I am defending the right of 260million AMericans to live in peace and not be murdered by some rag headed idiot. If you will not do the same, I suggest you live elsewhere!
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 7:42:37 AM EDT
Mace, point well taken. Much good DOES come out of colleges and education. You must admit that nearly all univeristies are hotbeds of ultra liberal thinking and most of that is a result of left wing faculty, and naive college kids who have yet to see how the world works. Those who have figured this out are well on the way to being valuable members of our society. Those who have not, like Libby, are a millstone around our necks. I posted earlier: [b]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WTF makes kids in school think they are so damn smart? Maybe the fact they are cowards trying to avoid having to fight for their country? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/b] I will try to clarify that a bit. It seems much protest comes from these kids. They may be book smart but many are world ignorant yet THINK they know it all. They think that THEIR world view has more validity than those of us who have years of experience in observing and thinking for our selves in the absence of communist faculty. That is not to say all students are morons like Libby76. Some are mature beyond their years, having been raised to think independently, value God and country, study hard and THINK before they blab. That latter group I have no quarrel with. The ones that twist my crank are those, of any age, who are willing to sacrifice 3000 American lives to support "feel good" ideals of "lets try and understand". We are at war. We must win or die. I am willing to fight to survive. Those who are not can KISS MY ASS!
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