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Posted: 9/9/2002 8:16:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2002 8:19:27 PM EDT by N_Viejo]
I just attached a bayonet to my SKS [%(]. It's the "Spike" type bayonet that is common on those rifles. Rather than spend money tricking out a cheap gun like my SKS, I am saving said money to get myself something with a detachable magazine, better accuracy and so on. So for the time being, I am stuck with my SKS with fixed 10-rd mag and bayonet. I have about 2000 rds of 7.62x39 ammo and a little less than 700 rds of .22LR for my Marlin. At least I have a bunch of detachable mags for the Marlin, so I can do tactical reloads with my .22. I realize that if SHTF tomorrow, I would be not be as prepared as I'd like, but we'll just have to hope that SHTF doesn't happen until after I get my M14 or AR15. Anyways, supposing a mob of hundreds of looters comes down my street tomorrow--they are burning and breaking everything in their path. [smash] I figure by the time the close to 150 yds or so, I can start picking them off from my front porch [sniper]. Luckily, I am in the city, so they will move slowly since there is so much to destroy here and when they pause to destroy shit, that will slow down their advance. Now, with only a 10 round mag and those stubborn stripper clips, I don't expect to keep them away from me forever. Eventually, the mob will get to my house. Then, I won't have time to reload unless I can dissuade them further by holding them off with the bayonet. Maybe they will pause long enough for me to reload, but probably not. The point being is, I was wondering, where is the best spot to stick the bayonet. Remember, there are hundreds of them, and I will probably only have time to give each one a good jab before I have to turn and hold off another one. Would a shot to the lungs (between the ribs) be enough to take someone down? I'm thinking not, because I have read enough stories of people who keep coming after being hit in the chest with a .38 or whatever. But what good is the bayonet if it won't render someone immediately harmless? By the way, if the AW ban sunsets, will we then be allowed to put bayonets on the rest of our guns? I used to think bayonets were only marginally useful, but with my measly 10 rds and after recently watching Sands of Iwo Jima (with John Wayne), I've changed my mind. Thanks for your help. Edited to add: I have a couple aquaintences who are doctors, but I don't want to ask them this question, lest they think I'm nuts. I've found that the people on ar15.com are much more realistic about what may really go down in an SHTF-type situation and won't think I'm off my rocker. -Nick Viejo.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:56:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2002 8:59:02 PM EDT by DoubleFeed]
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 9:01:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2002 9:02:05 PM EDT by gus]
If they're close enough to bayonet, you shoulda reloaded! There's no real use for bayos these days, other than for parades. Edited to add: It ain't gonna happen that way.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 9:09:19 PM EDT
"Luckily, I am in the city, so they will move slowly since there is so much to destroy here and when they pause to destroy shit, that will slow down their advance." [:D]
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 9:10:31 PM EDT
The place Ft. Benning, Harmony Church, 1986: Drill Sergeant Oliphant: "Now you stupid little fuckers listen up. I am going to teach this hand and arm signal one time and one time only. You will never forget it, and when it is given you will know what to do. The proper hand and arm signal for "Fix bayonets is this." (makes a gesture with an upward facing palm, thumb forward, in a brief back and forth motion). And when you see this signal being passed the proper response is this, (makes a fist and extends his middle finger). There is no fucking way I am doing a bayonet charge. Bayonets are for heroes and idiots who have seen too much Hollywood bullshit. If you have bullets, fucking use them! The enemy will. Especially if they see your stupid fucking ass running at them with a knife on the end of your rifle." Sooo...lose the bayonette, dude. Bayonettes are psychological weapons, to make first time fighters FEEL badass. They are heavy, screw up your balance with the weapon, and make for a harmonice that screws up accuracy. Plus you might hurt yourself or a friend by accident with that useless piece of shit. But they do look bitchin'.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 9:13:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2002 2:28:53 PM EDT by gus]
Originally Posted By Tate: "Luckily, I am in the city, so they will move slowly since there is so much to destroy here and when they pause to destroy shit, that will slow down their advance." [:D]
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Dude, you're dreaming. Bayos were used in the muzzleloader days for obvious reasons. Those reasons are no longer valid. If you were to open up on a crowd of looters, they would do anything BUT come looking for your butt! Your vision of SHTF is kinda disturbing. In the city, there are LOTS of them. In the country, there would be fewer and you could target them from farther away. Again, it ain't gonna happen that way. Edit: Just now finally realized that I was quoting Tate, who was just in there jabbing.... Doh!
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 10:43:15 PM EDT
I do believe I heard the words "fix bayonets" in the movie "They Were Soldiers". I had no idea they used muzzleloaders in Vietnam. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 10:52:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: I do believe I heard the words "fix bayonets" in the movie "They Were Soldiers". I had no idea they used muzzleloaders in Vietnam. [rolleyes]
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Do you believe every thing you see in the movies? If Gen Moore led a bayonet charge he would have got a CMOH vice a DSC. The actualy use of bayonets in combat is very rare since the advent of rifled weapons, when the field of fire increased from 50m to over 300, and in case of pre-Storm Trooper tactics out to around 2000 ms, Wave/echeleon bayonet charges became almost sure suicide. So much so that those that have lead them in US service have normally gotten CMOHs.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 11:28:30 PM EDT
Do these looters have an insatiable craving to eat human flesh? If so, then these are actually Zombies. [i]According to Sheriff McClelland, If you had a gun, shoot 'em in the head. If you didn't, get a torch and burn'em, they go up pretty easy. Beat 'em or burn 'em[/i] Remember [i]"kill the brain, you kill the ghoul."[/i]
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 11:30:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By STLRN:
Originally Posted By marvl: I do believe I heard the words "fix bayonets" in the movie "They Were Soldiers". I had no idea they used muzzleloaders in Vietnam. [rolleyes]
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Do you believe every thing you see in the movies? If Gen Moore led a bayonet charge he would have got a CMOH vice a DSC. The actualy use of bayonets in combat is very rare since the advent of rifled weapons, when the field of fire increased from 50m to over 300, and in case of pre-Storm Trooper tactics out to around 2000 ms, Wave/echeleon bayonet charges became almost sure suicide. So much so that those that have lead them in US service have normally gotten CMOHs.
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Having read the book, I know that bayonets were not used. I was making a point, perhaps in not the most credible way. However, why does everyone assume that bayonets are just an assault weapon? Seems to me if I were outnumbered and running low on ammo, I might be facing hand-to-hand combat from the enemy overrunning me, and having the bayonet available would prove useful. I've never actually been in that situation, so I can't say for sure. As it turns out, the last recorded bayonet charge in U.S. military history occured in the Korean war, in Feb, 1951, a mere 14 yers before the fight in Ia Drang. So they do happen, however ill-advised.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 11:55:26 PM EDT
Yep and he got the CMOH, see what I mean about them being rare. An E-tool is a better weapon than a bayonet for close combat.
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 4:38:53 AM EDT
it seems as if the bayonet would also be an efficient way to finish off the wounded after the hoardes have passed. conserves ammo. is quiet, and keeps you more than arm's length from any "fakers".
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 4:47:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By racebaiter: it seems as if the bayonet would also be an efficient way to finish off the wounded after the hoardes have passed. conserves ammo. is quiet, and keeps you more than arm's length from any "fakers".
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You'd definitely get strung up on that one. I can see the headlines now. [b]Crazed Gunman Opens Fire On Protestors Then Impales Survivors[/b]
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 5:04:09 AM EDT
I had a DI in basic SSgt Hicks...wounded several times by bayonet..in the Ia Drang If you learned to bayonet fight with an M1 or and M14 wouldnt hurt to have one just in case.(one of my favorite activities of basic).as long as its sharp..however never bring a knife to a gun fight is still a very good rule...
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 5:38:24 AM EDT
Bayonet usage will not be defensible in court. If you have a Chinese SKS, it should not have a bayonet on it anyway. If you do, you are in violation of the import ban and you are unlawfully possessing an assault weapon. Take the bayonet off, get a Dremel tool, and cut the lugs off. Solve all of those pesky problems in ubder 5 minutes.
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 5:44:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 5:46:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By N_Viejo: Anyways, supposing a mob of hundreds of looters comes down my street tomorrow--they are burning and breaking everything in their path.
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Why, in this scenario, a very subtle approach is needed to handle this group in a tactful and polite manner: [img]http://www.ima-usa.com/images/G057.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 5:47:50 AM EDT
I'm going to be a lone voice of dissent here. Poikilotrm, you and I went to the same school - I was there two years after you, though. I have a bayonet for my HK91 that I also use as a field knife. In my mind, the best use of a bayonet is in a last-ditch effort type of situation, where you want to be as ferocious-appearing as possible. Want to shake the enemy up BADLY? Fix your bayonet, put on your War Face and scream like an Iroquois brave about to scalp a hapless settler. Just another trick to have in the bag.
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 5:53:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 6:06:33 AM EDT
1) I'm not sure about the legality of attaching a bayo to an SKS that does not already have one (said as nicely as possibe). 2) Forget the bayo. If you are out of ammo, grab that sucker like a Loiseville slugger and swing for the fences. That's a solid piece of wood and steel, not plastic and aluminum. [;)] 3) [tinfoil] The reason they banned bayo lugs was that bayos go through the body armor that the gun gabbers will be wearing [/tinfoil]
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 6:22:36 AM EDT
I think a retreat would be a better option than trying to bayonet one after another on an unruly and advancing crowd. Better to be alive to fight another day. Evacuate your family and shoot anyone who wants to follow.
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 6:27:27 AM EDT
I think the bayonet is a very effective weapon... else why did Congress and the President ban it? They didn't ban buttstocks and little shovels, did they? I feel Congress was on to something on this one. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 1:43:15 PM EDT
[url]http://www.army.dnd.ca/2rcr/quill/quill3_e.htm[/url] Great article on bayonets done by a Canadian Officer.
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 2:16:26 PM EDT
Aside from the stated scenario being ludicrous... You have a bayonet lug on the end of your rifle just sitting there, why not have a bayonet to hang on it? Yes the bayonet charge is no longer a feasible military tactic. What we are talking about here is a lone individual in a defensive posture. I can see the bayonet having use in that role. "If it saves just one life."
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 2:16:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2002 2:24:42 PM EDT by Boom_Stick]
Typically you fix bayonet before you go into battle with your loaded rifle. That way it is there if at the last second you NEED it. [b]For instance:[/b] you run out of ammo, and as you are changing mags/clips an enemy pops out of nowhere within bayonet range(very rare). You stop what your doing and immediately bayonet him, them continue to reload. Since you thought ahead to fix bayonet before entering battle, you wont be standing there holding your [b][s]dick[/s][/b] empty rifle w/o some kind of reactionary weapon. You could just as easily butt stroke him, but I'd rather use a bayonet if I couldn't get to my pistol fast enough. Of course, this is all assuming that he hasn't shot you at point blank with his loaded weapon, because he has stumbled on to you too. A knife is LAST resort next to hand-to-hand(very last). Have a knife on you, but don't expect to be using it if you have a rifle and plenty of ammo. An urban situation will not go down exactly like you think. You may only have to shoot one or two of the mob leaders who are threatening your life, then the rest will cower away. UNLESS they have guns too, then its on!
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 4:11:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2002 4:11:58 PM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 8:12:15 PM EDT
Forget the bayonet, retreat and conceal yourself. Go to a garage sale, buy a cheap TV and stereo, and keep a couple of bags of clothes that you would normally give to the Salvation Army. Go to the Halloween shop and get one of those hands with the partial arm. When the SHTF, throw this stuff all over the front yard and place the arm, along with some fake blood, in the doorway. Leave the door slightly ajar (but braced from the inside) and break the closer on the storm door. Make it look like the house has already been ransacked. Defend your house by defending your neighbors house (down the street). That way, if you don't get all the leaders, they will smash and burn someone else's house. Leave your house with an easy way in the back and an ammo supply. Only fight if the try to come in.
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 9:18:12 PM EDT
Speaking of Bayonets check this out [url]http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=138763[/url] Picture of my bayonet on my gun!
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 9:58:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2002 11:19:10 PM EDT by bobbyjack]
What the hell kind of basic trainning did you go through? The bayonet thrust and charge butstock hit and kill was a part of the trainning! If you run out of ammo and then swing your rifle at me like a ball bat,and I've got a bayo on my rifle,then your are just a gutted dead man! Not only do I have a Big knife but it is attached to a four foot rifle! Damn my Kar 98 has a bayo of Mag proportions. Hell even my M1 carbine has a USM8A bayo that really looks more deadly than this short ass rifle with a thirty round mag! And I can tell you that that dull looking bayo on the sks or Ak has killed more people than the bullet ever did,why waist a bullet when a short thrust can take the life of a small child or an old man,old woman? So don't ever thing that a ban is stupid,as in any other world than what we know the blade is the rule! And yes the bayo will work when you are out of bullets at close range! But then who didn't know that? Bob [:D] Edited to say Hey Boom-Stick yeah you got it!
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 4:06:32 AM EDT
In a one on one or maybe even a couple people a bayonet might make the unruly a little wary. However if it were me who were unruly and wanted your things, and knew you were out of ammo or jammed and it looked like you might want to charge me with a bayonet, I would stone the bayonetter and retreat with each advancement. If there were several of us, I would coordinate a diversion and clam the bayonetter in the head with a 50+mph fastball rock. Even if it were a body shot, several body shots have been known to be lethal. Knowing how to use a bayonet or a knife, or judo, or karate, or whatever else self defense technique one learns. The problem is knowing "when" to use it. A fire arm is far superior to any of the above mentioned techniques in a rushing mob situation. Getting bum rushed by a mass coordinated or uncoordinated is suicide. I guess if one wants to be remembered by having their "things" pried from their cold dead fingers so be it. I am not sure anything was accomplished even if you were able to gut a couple. They don't just crump especially if they are high unless of course you jam the bayonet through a critical area of the body. Pray for precision bayonetting ie through the heart, CNS, liver, lung, etc. Personally, I would revert to other plans such as molotov cocktails from two cycle gas in garage thus creating either a great smoke screen to get away or an momentary impenatrable wall of flames to give one time reload or fix the jam or get a new weapon. Buying yourself time is part of the art of survival.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 7:10:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: Legal FYI: Most SKSs were imported AFTER the '89 Import ban, and must comply with its provisions. If you can prove your SKS was imported before the ban, then it won't apply to your SKS. Also, if you replace enough imported parts with US-made parts, it also doesn't apply. Under the '89 Import ban, Russian and European SKSs can retain their bayonet and lug as long as they remain in stock configuration. [red]Chinese SKSs may NOT have a bayonet,[/red] though they can retain the lug as long as they are in stock configuration. Of course, these rifles must also comply with the provisions of the '94 AW ban as well. -Troy
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Okay. Any ideas how I can find out if a Chinese SKS came in pre- or post-89?
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 8:13:40 AM EDT
[b]"Luckily, I am in the city, so they will move slowly since there is so much to destroy...."[/b] [:D] LOL!
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 8:19:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Morgan-Keegan2: Speaking of Bayonets check this out [url]http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=138763[/url] Picture of my bayonet on my gun!
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but that bayo does not fit your rifle properly. Bayo should fit over flashhider, not barrel.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 10:28:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: Correct me if I'm wrong, but that bayo does not fit your rifle properly. Bayo should fit over flashhider, not barrel.
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It's a 16" barrel
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 2:52:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2002 2:53:21 PM EDT by Derek45]
1. Slowly, removed the bayonet. 2. Reduce your caffeine and sugar intake immediately.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 3:03:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Vulch:
Originally Posted By marvl: Correct me if I'm wrong, but that bayo does not fit your rifle properly. Bayo should fit over flashhider, not barrel.
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It's a 16" barrel
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Uh, yeah, that's my point. [>:/]
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 8:15:55 PM EDT
this question is so gay it hurts. if you want to learn proper use of the bayonet then i suggest you you gather up your birth certificate, social security card and shot record and sasche youre ass down to the local USMC recruiter, bang on his hatch and sound off with confidence "GUNNY, I WANNA BE OH-THREE" if you think youre gonna fix bayonet and start hookin and jabbin with the rioting hordes ala mel gibson in The Patriot you need to re-think your strategy cuz the 2nd or 3rd guy you poke it at is gonna take it away from you and shove it up your ass
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 8:27:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: I think the bayonet is a very effective weapon... else why did Congress and the President ban it? They didn't ban buttstocks and little shovels, did they? I feel Congress was on to something on this one. [rolleyes]
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Evil Bayonets - Yes it was a scourge of society, all those drive by bayonetings... The situation was getting totally out of hand.
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